hitting the bladder/urinating in your pants

[Black Jack]

This is two-tier post on striking the bladder and the possibility of encountering a violent situation with a full bladder and how to handle that situation.

This info was given to me by a gentleman who in his youth has been in a number of knock down and drag out fights.

1. Dumping the contents: I have encountered this information before and it may sound sick, but it has serious merit, if you have a full bladder, the kind that hurts, you know you have to ****, and you find yourself in a situation where you may have to get serious and rumble, **** in your pants, empty your bladder, its better to **** in your pants than suffer the effects of a ruptured urinary bladder in its distended state, which will release blood and urine in the body cavity.

Who else has heard this advice???

2. Striking the bladder: Besides the infection of a punctured unrinary bladder if struck in its full state, the best blow being one of a plunging downward strike/push, other effects may occur.

Fractured public bone, punctured colon which may lead to hemorrhage and shock, femoral hernia, even thrombosis in the femoral vien which can lead to the lungs and cause death or parts of the protruding bowl can become constricted from the pressure and become gangernous from the lack of blood, caused by the expanded ring around the bowl.

Who hear has the bladder on there practice list for targets, who works with this area beyond just the fact that it might be available to strike in a fight, specific techs.

Mine is a downward sun punch/push, I think the trick is the downward movement above anything else, the techniques is just a side note, though I am curious to see what others say.

On the offnote downward thrusts from a baton or blade would be perfect elements to use in this situation.

[Braden]

There's alot of bladder attacks in bagua, and my teacher has stressed them a fair amount. One of the basic ideas is... say we are squared off and my left arm is joined to your left arm, and I want to take the outside. I may have to enter and turn my body perpendicular to yours so that I am to your left on the outside and my right arm is free (my hips/shoulders are pointing at the left side of your hips/shoulders, they make a T). From here, a common attack would be a right downward palm to the bladder. My right hand may have been up, involved in grappling or defense or a failed strike to the face, in which case I can rotate it downwards to slap the bladder while maintaining contact with my elbow to offbalance you or continue checking your other arm; similarly I could have down a backward elbow to the sternum while entering, and rotated down for the abdomen palm stike combo. The position also prepares you for following up by continuing the (wierdly skewed) momentum into the person, by then lifting the right arm up (say to strike your left armpit with my right shoulder, to strike your throat with the ascending forearm, to slap your right ear with my right palm - which would then be in position to grap the head for a crank or throw), often while completing the step to place my right foot close behind your left foot so you are simultaneously thrown over it, or at least your movement is jammed.

These techniques are all in the 'dual palm change' of my style, the second sequence of movements which is taught, which is considered one of two 'fundamental' movement sequences.

Kind of like here: http://www.blacktaoist.com/graphics/applications/BenHillandDonald.html

Imagine the bagua dude (on the left) entered with a forward elbow to the armpit or floating ribs, then kept the elbow there and slapped downwards to the abdomen while sliding his foot back (to where it is in the second picture), and then slid the arm up for the ear strike and subsequent crank and throw, as shown.

[Shaolindynasty]

When my sifu used to take shotokan he said he got kicked in the kidneys a couple times during sparring. It broke a blood vessel in them and he eventually got a stone.....OUCH!!! True story:D

[Black Jack]

Slapping over Plunging.

This brings up a good question, the technique that I was shown is one where there is a lot of deep penetration, the downward sun punch not only strikes the bladder but continues to plunge into its bag, the movement is used with a forward or sectoring drop step and a bit of a level change depending on your size, I being short don't have to worry about that though.

Does slapping produce a deep effect to this area? Does it get a good penetration value, on a very full bladder I can see this but what about one where this is not the case and you might have to dig a little bit to get the gold.

Man that sound gross:D

[Crimson Phoenix]

I like to aim at the target area with heel kicks, the penetrating version, not the pushing one...

[Braden]

Yes, once you've learnt to use your palm for striking in a particular bagua way. If you were short, and/or you sunk while you entered, you could do the same movements with a backward elbow to the bladder for penetration, without any special conditioning.

[Braden]

Actually, check this: http://www.blacktaoist.com/graphics/applications/Maatwudangattackedinpark3.html

Checking through BT's site dusted some cobwebs from my mind, heh. This is classic bagua, of any style. You can see the kind of penetration you like done to the bladder here. This is from the single palm change, the only one more fundamental than the dual. ;)

[BoxerChick]

LOL!!
This is funny, because I have had three amateur fights..and on my second fight I accidently threw a low blow to the girl I was boxing and she wet herself!!!
Got to give her credit though, because she kept on fighting, even though she was embarassed as hell!!
I won though by points, but she was a good fighter.

[red_fists]

Hiya.

Tai Chi also has a punch to the groin and some kicks that can be used to tap the golden flow. :D

AFAIK, I think all MA systems have attacks for that region.

Personally, I think more effectice than the Gonads shots & kicks.

[Tigerstyle]

I gotta go pee.

[Sam Wiley]

I think plunging inward and downward is the norm. The "Middle Winding" technique from Taiji uses a downward plunging palm to the bladder area, and the Low Reverse Circle Punch is used a lot to this area. Bagua has similar techniques to these two, specifically, "Catching a Fish" and "Close the Door and Push the Moon" when it is done on the front leg, as well as "Liu Hai Plays with Toad." There are also several downward punches in Taiji, as well as the overturning palm and water palm from Bagua could be used.

It really sucks to get hit there, hurts like a mother****er. Bladder strikes are pretty nasty.

You can also use upward attacks to the area, if you happen to be down there and are on your way up, I suppose. The punch done in the transition between "Snake Creeps Down" and "Step Forward to Seven Stars," for instance.

[Budokan]

Tycho Brahe died from a burst bladder which became infected.

[rogue]

I've heard the same thing about dropping the beer Black Jack and the bladder's on my list as a target, I've had it taught at several places, the most recent being a use for those non-snapping penetrating front kicks in some TKD. I've also been taught to target the "upset" punch there too. Very nasty and would only use it on someone I wish much ill-will to.

[sticky fingers]

I read somewhere that peeing/crapping your pants is a rape defense tactic. More a turn off than an actual defense I suppose, but some sickos out there like that kind of thing...

[Black Jack]

Rogue,

Whats a "upset punch"?

That whole general area is a good targeting zone, if you miss big jim and the twins you might hit the bladder and if you miss the bladder you might hit the groin itself, all in all it brings up your percentages a bit.

I like both striking and kicking these target zones, my favorite hand strikes at the moment being vertical punch to the bladder, cupped hand blow to the groin, grab and squeeze, toe and instep kick to the groin, heel and toe kick to the bladder, as well as the tired and true knee to the groin.

On the knee to the groin my mental image is trying to smash the testicles against the pubic bone. Even though the testicles are extremely mobile withing the loose skin of the scrotum, a crushed nut may result, due to the wide surface of the foot or knee striking it.

I myself, have been knocked into the blissfull realm of unconsciousness because of a heavy impact to the groin.

[SifuAbel]

The bladder is a great target, full or empty.

The shock value created when the walls of the bladder collapse and hit the bone is wonderfull.

A good "Dragon head", or what you would call a noogy punch, is quite painfull.

[sticky fingers]

The shock value created when the walls of the bladder collapse and hit the bone is wonderfull

not when it's your own bladder

[NorthernMantis]

Originally posted by Black Jack


2. Striking the bladder: Besides the infection of a punctured unrinary bladder if struck in its full state, the best blow being one of a plunging downward strike/push, other effects may occur.

Fractured public bone, punctured colon which may lead to hemorrhage and shock, femoral hernia, even thrombosis in the femoral vien which can lead to the lungs and cause death or parts of the protruding bowl can become constricted from the pressure and become gangernous from the lack of blood, caused by the expanded ring around the bowl.




Why BlackJack what a good description of dim mak you have there. I never knew you were intersested in this kind of stuff.
:D

*dives for cover*