Sash system?

[PHILBERT]

What is your schools sash system colors starting from beginner?

[JasBourne]

It depends on whether your school needs to have a grading system to make sure everyone gets the proper training for their level of proficiency. In smaller schools, everyone knows where everyone is at.

:)

It also depends on how your school decides to slice up training - I've seen schools with 10 levels, schools with 4, etc etc there is no hard and fast here. I attended a school that used black, yellow, red, green, blue and black again. A different one used yellow, orange, red, blue, green, purple, black. And so on.

HOH! Sneaky! No changing the wording of the question after someone posts an answer! ;)

[CanadianBadAss]

My sifu is apart of the hong kong Ving Tsun Althletic Association, and they have a type level system using diffrent colors and what not.
So at my school we have a board with all the diffent colors(levels), and you can put a magnet(with your name on it) on the level you're at... But half the people at my school don't even bother with the level thing, it's mostly for the kids I think.

[S.Teebas]

where i train there are no grades. You learn, then when you grasp the concept (and can compentently demonstarate it) you are taught the next thing. I fell this is better, i have trained at places where a sash or belt system was used....and to be hinest there were people who were just plain sh!t but were levels higer than many others below. And these guys were teaching people who knew more than them.

This is where the art gets screwed up becasue of egos of belts and rank.

[Frank Exchange]

No belts, no ranking, no grades. Thats the traditional HK way, as I understand it. As WSL said, it doesnt matter how senior you are, its how good you are.

CanadianBadAss, you said HK VT association has a standard grading system, but this is the first I've heard of it. Can you elaborate?

Regards
Frank

[Ish]

i totaly agree s.teebas thats why i dont do any gradings as well as that im a tight **** and i dont want to pay to be told how good im not

[S.Teebas]

...as long as your are still learning!:)

[CanadianBadAss]

http://www.vingtsun.com.hk/news/Ranking2.HTM

[Frank Exchange]

Thanks, CBA.

[yuanfen]

sash A for beginners. Most sashay from then on, some tango.
yuanfen

[Frank Exchange]

Do they Tan-go to the sound of the Bong-oes?

[yuanfen]

Depends on whether a bongo player is around- otherwise records<g>
Sasha A is beginners he got to learn the sashay, sash B is for boogy woogie, c for cha cha and goes on
s for salsa then t for tango in hernando's hideaway. Ole!
Footwork...BL never got past the cha cha!!!

[whippinghand]

Originally posted by yuanfen
BL never got past the cha cha!!!
That explains a WHOLE lot about JKD.

[JasBourne]

"That explains a WHOLE lot about JKD."

Yah, but to BL's credit, he was cha-cha champ of HK.

See, salsa and tango were advanced closed room techniques, and since he never studied that far and sifu refused to let him film, he HAD to invent JKD, dontcha know!



:D @ yuanfen, I like your sense of humor. Ole!

[red_fists]

It always amazes me how BL managed
WC, Cha Cha and all life's other persuits like school and so on.

Wish I knew his secret. :confused:

[yuanfen]

It always amazes me how BL managed
WC, Cha Cha and all life's other persuits like school and so on
------------------------------------------------------
Amazed? Really.? Firstly. school? Do you think that he wasa good student? Careful about the myth making. Cha Cha--- HK as the cha cha capital? WC- yes and no. he exercised a lot and even hurt his back in the process. He was first an actor... and although he had his limitations there- the pugilism part of his acting was much better than screen ma of his time- to his great credit. And as far as managing his "persuits" like running many computer programs...dem "cookies" helped. :- His were special :-
Not made by Lorna Doone!

PS: Thanks Jas Bourne- You are right William Jennings Bryan was a loser...
too bad he didnt have Bruce Lee's cookies

[anerlich]

The art can get screwed up because of egos and [alleged] rank without any assistance from sashes and grading systems. Just check out the shenanigans undertaken by (some of) Yip Man's students after his death.

It can be argued that a system of published ranks and a more structured grading system could have avoided some of the stupider events of the last thirty-odd years and the whole succession controversy, Grandmasters, etc..

A good grading system allows a larger organisation with several branches to ensure at least some level of consistency across the various branches. It also gives goal oriented students a structured series of increasing challenges to facilitate motivation and learning, and do not gloss over important aspects of training because they find them difficult or boring. If you do nice forms but your fighting sucks, you have a problem.

Students can move between schools and find their appropriate level of training if the same grading system is followed.

Large organisations don't mean bad instruction, just as a small informal group doesn't guarantee good instruction. Same with students. Some thrive with strong direction and discipline, some whither under it. Others thrive on a voyage of self-discovery with minimasl guidance.

A critical mass of paying students allows an instructor to train and teach full time, increasing the quality of their offering, run more classes, and give his/her KF to more students. Large organisation == mcKwoon does not necessarily apply.

All medium to large organisations require some form of administration and, well, organisation.

Some instructors may feel that formalising instruction, conducting regular examinations, setting goals, etc. may constrict their teaching. Some who do not have grades may feel this way. Others may do this not out of virtue but because of little aptitude or interest in administration, and their students may suffer.

Grading systems can be abused. They can be used to bring in extra cash for the instructor. My school has grades but do not charge for the examinations, though the org my Sifu used to belong to did. Grades can be awarded that haven't been earned, or grades withheld unjustly. But intructors can play favorites and students can kiss ass to increase their status without gradings featuring in the events. Good instructors don't do it and good instructors don't stand for it.

As for rank giving you benefits, sheesh, only in that school and only sometimes. When I spar or roll, no one gives me any break because of my seniority. Everyone wants to smack me in the head or get me tap. Much better to sock or submit someone higher up the ladder than you. You're the one that has to suddenly take the class when business hold the Sifu up and you have forty odd students to drill for the next hour or so.

Like Royce (or was it Rickson) said, "A belt covers two inches of your a$$. You better cover the rest."

Before someone makes the old tired joke, belts aren't used to hold your pants up in MA. The drawstring does that. Their purpose is to keep your gi jacket closed.

A ranking system and belts do not guarantee good KF or good instruction. Neither does their absence. They are one way to organise your students' training, which certainly seems popular enough. If it doesn't suit you, don't sign up there.

At Combat Centres Australia we have ten student grades, white through gold belts. At tenth level you are accredited to teach in your own school. After that there are seven more "master" levels, culminating in a red belt. To get through the ten student grades takes most between 5 and 10 years. Each Master level takes a minimum of two years between each. My Sifu is the only red belt in our org and no one else has gone above the first master level yet. I have a photo of myself with two black eyes and palm- and ASICS wrestling boot-shaped bruises all over my torso (yes, my pants were on) after my last grading, so I am satisfied rhat I earned it.

In Machado BJJ there are five belts, white, blue, purple, brown and black.

BTW, all this talk of dancing is way funny, but I hope the NHB crowd don't see this thread and get more ammo to call us a bunch of dancing queens from it ;)

Let the flames begin ...

[yuanfen]

I for one do not regret that there was no ranking among Yip man's successors. Those who know something know- those who dont- dont. In craftmanship and art- in many ways knowledge is its own reward. Also there are folks including myself who paid and pay no mind to the "succession" controversies.
To repeat a paraphrase from Kipling's Ballad of East and West:

But there is no border nor breed nor birth
When two wc-ers come face to face
Though they come from the ends of the earth!!

[anerlich]

Joy,

Disagreement is fine, life and this forum would be pretty boring otherwise.

Cheers

AN