Choy Lee Fut Workshop - San Diego May 26th & 27th

[T. Cunningham]

Master Chen Yong Fa, the great great grandson of Chan Heung, the founder of Choy Lee Fut, will be conducting a workshop in San Diego, CA. The workshop will be held at the Choy Lee Fut school of Master Frank Primicias May 26th and 27th. This is a rare opportunity to study with the Jerng mun yun (Keeper of the style) of the Family style of Choy Lee Fut.

For further information, please contact Primicias Sifu at Primiciasf@aol.com or the Choy Lee Fut Martial Arts Federation at First Floor, 15 Goulburn Street, Sydney NSW 2000, Australia.
Email: info@tai-chi-centre.com. Fax: +61 2 98102516

A. Bey

[Gwa Sow Chop]

Mr. Bey
A few of us are going to the seminar......from up here in chilly canada.
Are you attending also?

[premier]

I can tell you guys that you should take every single chance you get to learn from this guy. I was in his seminar a bit over a year ago. I must say he knows his stuff =) I thought of attending that seminar, but I just can't afford it at the moment. I'll wait until he gets to Europe again.

[woliveri]

The only Choy Lee Fut I've seen is from Lee Koon Hung who has since passed away. Do you know of Lee Koon Hung's lineage and how it relates to Chen Yong Fa? Also, what would be the topic of instruction at the seminar? Hand Forms, weapons?

thanks

Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East
By Baird T. Spalding

[premier]

Like A.bey said, Chen yong fa is the great great grandson of Chan Heung. Chan Heung was the guy who created Choy lee fut. Chan Heung taught the whole CLF system nothing held back to his sons and they did the same thing to their sons and they... you get the picture..

so Chen Yong Fa, as a great great grandson of Chan Heung, has also learned the whole CLF system nothing held back and is concidered as the Keeper of Chan family CLF.

Lee Koon Hung's CLF is a different lineage, which separated from Chan family after Chan Koon Pak, one of Chan heung's sons. I could be wrong here.. sorry if I am.

Mr. Chan will be teaching ng ying kuen, 5 animals form and sau shou sin, the hand breaking fan form.

[Sow Choy]

I was a student of Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung. His Choy Lay Fut was from the Jeung Yim lineage, so our Kung Fu is definitely different that Chen Yong Fa.

No offense to anyone especially Chen Yong Fa or his students, but it doesn't matter who his grandfather's cousin sisters brother is, if you know what I mean. what matters is the Kung Fu.

Lee Koon Hung was a full contact champion and trained thousands of full contact fighters in his day, and now continuing through his students. His style teaches over 100 different hand and weapon forms. I have never had the pleasure of seeing the Chen family in any sparring, but hopefully one day.

I just attended a fan seminar by Lee Koon Hung's Master Li Siu Hung, he is awesome, if you have a chance to train with him, take it!

[CLFNole]

Not staying with the topic entirely but Sifu Lee Koon Hung's CLF comes from Cheong Hung Sing (aka Cheong Yim). This branch of CLF dates back nearly as long as the Chan Family style passed down through the Chan family.

I am not sure if someone was trying to imply that since Chan Yong Fa is the great, great grandson of Chan Heung that it necessarily makes his CLF better than another sifu's or not. If so I think a lot of people would take exception to that idea. Being related to someone does not make your kung fu any better or any worse than someone else's. There are numerous, top-notch sifu's that come from the Hung Sing & Buk Sing branches of CLF besides Sifu Lee Koon Hung that excelled in forms, weapons and fighting.

Peace.

[premier]

OK, guys.. I'm sorry if I offended you somehow, but did I say anything about other lineage being better than another?
no. and I don't think so either. they're just different and maybe a little different approaches to the same thing.
I was just answering Wolveri's question "Do you know of Lee Koon Hung's lineage and how it relates to Chen Yong Fa?"

sow choy:

you said:

"No offense to anyone especially Chen Yong Fa or his students, but it doesn't matter who his grandfather's cousin sisters brother is, if you know what I mean. what matters is the Kung Fu."

I agree, but what I was trying to say was that Chan family CLF might be the most complete and original form of CLF, because as you know in traditional CMA the whole style was rarely passed down outside the family (this is open to a civilized discussion). Of course the style has gone trough some evolution during these years. New forms has been born and stuff like that.

Now. I am NOT trying to badmouth about other lineages. we're part of the same family =) I've nothing but respect for Lee koon hung's clf and his followers. I'm sure they're great martial artists.

[T. Cunningham]

I think we all should keep in mind that Chan Heung is the founder of Choy Lee Fut. Regardless of your lineage, he is the source and without his efforts, we (Choy Lee Fut practitioners) would all be studying something else or possibly nothing at all.

As the number of student of a particular style grows, it only stands to reason that variations will arise due to the different personalities, experiences, and body types of those teaching. Whether your lineage is through Jeong Yim or any of Chan Heung's many other students, never lose sight of the fact that Choy Lee Fut sprang from him.

Regarding family relations, it matters very much who Chen Yong Fa is related to. Discounting the family bond is the same as discounting lineage. Being the great-great grandson of Chan Heung and the Keeper of the System, Chen Yong Fa was taught the entire system with nothing held back. As we all know, if you're not family, there's only so much you're going to get.

As to who's gung fu is better, that depends on the individual and the training completed. You have to admit that having 100% of the information is a big advantage in furthering your education/training. Regardless, we should never reduce ourselves to "my gung fu is better than yours or my Sifu could take yours on even a bad day." Instead, our time would be better spent training and learning from eachother as brothers and sisters in Choy Lee Fut.

Gung Hei Fat Choy!

[Sow Choy]

Gong Hay Faat Choy,

I agree with you, we all are brothers and can learn from each other, but I still feel that it is not the most important thing to be related to Chan Heung. Of course lineage is important. But 1st important is what you do as an individual with it.

Most masters in the old days only cared what worked in a fight. Most of them had many different teachers, look at Chan Heung himself. Also, I feel many people on this site get caught up in the stories of the past masters and lose site on the present. My sifu Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung was a respected Kung Fu master, and there are many people who know him and his accomplishments.

He had learned from 5 different Choy Lay Fut masters: Poon Dik, Poon Sing, Leung Sai, Chow Bing, So Kam Fook. He also studied Hung Gar as a boy, I don't remember the sifu's name, and he learned Northern style from Shek Kin. I hope this helps understand his lineage more.

All I am saying is let your Kung Fu talk for itself, not your name or relation. I mean no disrespect to anyone, just be careful when you compare master to master. By claiming someone has more knowledge because of relation, you are making an asumption that might not be true.

I know many masters who are related to famous masters whose kung fu is not at a high standard like their si hings.

Peace to you all :cool:

[T. Cunningham]

Sow Choy,

I don't recall saying that being related to Chan Heung is most important. I simply pointed out the benefits of being "in the family". In the old days, who you were related to was most important being that if you didn't belong to the clan, there was only so much information that would be given to you.

As to the masters of old, in my opinion, they cared very much about who you learned from in addition to what works in a fight.

As to your argument regarding the importance of relatioins, what do you think lineage is? In addition to meaning teacher, Sifu also means father. When you bi si, you take your Sifu's family name in some traditions. The members of a gung fu school are a family. Lineage, who you are related to by blood or other means, is everything. It makes you who you are.

As to your gung fu speaking for itself, what do you know of Chen Yong Fa? Have you crossed hands with him? What do you know of his teaching and fighting abilities? Never did I compare him to anyone else. I simply pointed out the obvious benefits of him being related to the Founder. For you to discount this is to discount and disrespect the knowledge and abilities of his teacher, his teacher's teacher, and so forth. They were confident enough in his abilities to give him their knowledge and the title Keeper of the System. In addition, it shows disrespect to those who taught your teacher being that their roots are traced back to the family.

Discounting the abilities of someone you have no true knowledge of is not wise. Proper martial virtue should be demonstrated at all times to give honor and respect to your teacher and your school.

The San Diego Workshop is being held to share knowledge, not to proclaim superiority. All are welcome.

[This message was edited by A.Bey on 01-30-01 at 09:10 PM.]

[Sow Choy]

A.Bey,

You misunderstood me. When I was speaking of Kung Fu speaking for itself I did not intend that directly at Chen Yong Fa or anyone specific. I do believe lineage is important, but not the end-all be-all. That was my point, nothing else.

As for your comments on me discounting my sifu or anyone else. I did not appreciate that at all. I made a valid point not a stab at anyone. I did not direct my statement to anyone imparticular, sorry if that offended you.

I do care about family and lineage, the reason I posted is when I heard my sifus name being mentioned.

[T. Cunningham]

Then we agree.

Excellent!