The throw in little mantis

[Tainan Mantis]

A month or so ago we were talking about this throw in the Wah Lum little mantis form.

I'm doing the form and Mantis 108 is the partner.
This is not meant to be the only app for the form and different opinions can be equally or more valid.

In practice he could escape the throw and I could continue with the form.

To read the captions and decipher the picture will take several minutes, but in practice the action is several seconds so please approach with an open mind.


CLICK PICS TO ENLARGE

Little Mantis Throw (http://216.126.109.138/mantis/images/littlemantis.htm)

[woliveri]

Hi Tainan Mantis,

Two things:

1. The pics are referencing on your (or Mantis108's) pc is using an absolute path. Please change this to a relative path so we can view them.

2. I'm unclear about the style of Mantis you study. I know Mantis108 is a Tai Mantis practioner. Is your style of the same lineage?

Thanks.

[isol8d]

That was excellent. I have not reached that form in my training yet, but with the pictures I could follow really well.

Well done!

(You could use a free pic server like Photoisland (http://www.photoisland.com), and use the "Link for Auction" to provide a url in place of your home machine's file system)

Were you in a video store filming this?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

The app works out fine with just the one kick. In the context of the Little Mantis form the time from hooking the punch to the LHS would be too long to hang on to opponents arm. Additionally, rather than executing the throw the arm can be stressed across the body to break or tear muscle and ligaments by not allowing opponent to go with the throw. Similar to Wah Lum grab and sweep without the sweep.

While most of the time the app for the move in the form is apparent I've found that some of the best apps come from variations from the forms version.

Maybe the Pong Lai group can show some apps from mantis forms not found in Wah Lum so we can expand our knowledge of what's out there. Or other versions of forms we do have like Lan Jeet or Da Fan Che.

[EARTH DRAGON]

One thing I would just like to add comming simply from a shuai chaio point of view.

When performing that throw (much like bungtaio) you must lift your right leg as you turn with the arm locked across the body.

If you dont first lock the arm the proper leverage cannot be applied, this can be done by twisting the wrist towards you which lines the elbow up against your chest (xyphoid process) and locks it in place.

Also you must lift your leg to prevent the opponent from stepping over your foundation foot and reversing you into a shoulder throw.

please veiw the same throw with what i have described above, again using the same lead in that tainan and mantis 108 used.

just my two cents

[Tainan Mantis]

Thanks all for your comments to the post.

woliveri,
1. I don't understand technical computer talk. We will try to rectify the problem so you can view the pics. When we do I'll put down a note.

2. My PM style: my teacher has studied most PM styles. He went to HK many times to study TJPM with their GM. That info has, to some extant been passed on to us. In addition I studied Wah Lum in the states.

isol8d,
Mantis108 runs 2 video stores. He works from 10am to midnight 7 days a week. He's from HK and believes you only retire when you die.
So we do kung fu in the store, the customers are amused.

Hua Lin Laoshr,
The pics show one kick, but you can do 2 or 3. It can be a kick to his leg or a type of stepping where I throw my own body weight to the ground for the purpose of doubling my weight. So my 80KG momentarily becomes 160KG.

Holding the arm:
There are exercises where this is done for a long period of time. Depending on how the opponent tries to break the hold determines the type of throw I do.
This is a chief characteristic of PM. In defense of other styles it is also quite common in many types of MA.

Being a white boy kung fu teacher in Taiwan causes some Taiwanese to want to cross hands. I can see their frustration when I grab them and they find it difficult to break the hold.

When Pong Lai and I lived at the school our shr fu gave us a large earthenware vase that we had to grab by the lip and lift with a miniscule finger grip.
Another one was throwing a large greenbean bag across the school.
This is very helpful when learning to hold the opponent very tightly.

Also, the mountains of Shandong and Northern China are very cold and so learning how to fight when sleeves and collars are grabbed is required learning.

The break of the arm that you mentioned is exactly what I was trying to do in the pic. In which case the throw isn't needed.

ED,
Thanks for the pic. I know we usually have to do it over and over before getting such a good shot.

Your throw in the pic will lead to a much nastier fall for the opponent than the one I posted.

In the throw I posted the object is to know how to do the throw without the leg hook as the opponent is running away.
But, of course we will hook the leg like you did if we can catch it.
In fact, I always teach these types of throws with the leg hook.

Your explanation of leverage on the opponents arm sounds like what I did.

Mantis 108 has shown me some nice throw reversals that they used to practice in HK.

[SaMantis]

TM,

LOL!! I bet no one comes into that video store trying to start trouble. :D

That sequence in Little Mantis is nicely broken down. I didn't see a throw there before, now I will start looking at that turn to see what else I can do. Thank you for posting it.

[Stacey]

Kudos to you for having the courage and skill to be a tall white guy teaching kung fu in taiwan.

BTW, if I didn't know better,(and I don't) I'd think you were doing 8 step PM. Guess they are more similar. I find this throw really effective, but the timing on the hips, but be exact, but who cares, you still have the arm bar.

[Tainan Mantis]

They should work now.
Click on the thumb to enlarge.