Pong Lai Mantis ?

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Question for Pong Lai people - Do you learn 7 Star and Plum Flower etc. separately or is Master Shr making Pong Lai a distinct style?

If the different systems are kept intact do you find it difficult remembering multiple variations of each form?

[Tainan Mantis]

Shr Zhengzhong has studied with PM masters of different lineages. In many cases different styles trace back to a single teacher such as Jiang Hwa Long or Liang Hsue Hsiang.
He has studied the same form with different teachers to get a wider view point.
Sometimes he would teach a technique or drill and say something like,"Out of 30 teachers only one knew this ..."

He has also said that 7* has the best apps, mei hwa looks the best and mimen looks the most ancient. Strangely though, he also said that as far as individual teachers were concerned the TJPM GM and Luan Hsing Fu of mei hwa had the best hand techniques.

When he teaches a form he will say where it came from and what style.
We don't learn the same form from different styles. For example learning Hsiao Fan Che of 8 Step, 7* and meii hwa. Instead, he may point out how another style does a particular move and we would learn only one version of the form.

When different styles do the same move differently it is usually because of slight variations in fa jing or preference to how the GM felt comfortable performing the move.

Since I like the mimen feel my fa jing is similar to that style while another student may be more 8step flavor. Moves and apps don't change by the flavor, that is the personal artistic aspect and students have a certain amount of leeway, especially after 5-10 years of daily training.

As far as pong lai being a distinct style like 7* or 8 step, I don't see that happening while he is still teaching as it wouldn't fit his personality. But in Taiwan teachers always have a name for the school and his is pong lai to represent his feelings of patriotism toward Taiwan.

[Pong Lai]

"Question for Pong Lai people - Do you learn 7 Star and Plum Flower etc. separately or is Master Shr making Pong Lai a distinct style?

If the different systems are kept intact do you find it difficult remembering multiple variations of each form?"


Hualinlaoshr: Long time since we have spoken. I have been quite busy with the Chinese New Year celebrations, work, and putting the final pieces together for the Taiwan trip. Hope all is well with you!

Pong Lai "Style" of our teacher, Shr Cheng Chong, is the fusion of over 40 years of Martial Arts training and research with some 30 various teachers, whom mostly immigrated to Taiwan and HK during the communist and cultural revolutions. Pong Lai is an older word used to describe Taiwan, much the same as Formosa was once used. Pong Lai is also a well known county in Shan Dong Province. Shr Shrfu is very Patriotic and part of his reason for naming his organization Pong Lai, is to emphasize CMA new origins. In his eyes, and more directly, he feels that CMA or as we Westerners all think of it, now exists outside of Mainland China. This subject alone can be debated and discussed in length.

I think I have previously posted a profile of Shr Shrfu's teachers or the more prominent ones whom he has studied with. He has studied various styles, Eagle Claw, Tong Bei, Judo, Crane, etc. but early on found a connection with Mantis that led him to search and research with every mantis teacher he could find on the island (Tainan Mantis followed in his footsteps) and eventually traveled to HK and China to continue his efforts. He has studied extensively all six branches of mantis that we have discussed on this forum, though his teachings elaborate on 4 of the six, secret door, plum flower, tai chi, and seven star.

We learn different aspects of the different styles, at different times. No set cirriculum or order for which the styles are taught. Usually for the beginners, seven star is taught as it has numerous basic drills/sets, thanks to the late WHF & LYC. I personally like to begin with Plum Flower basics and two person drills. It is not confusing to move back and forth from mantis style to mantis style as long as you have the basics down packed and understanding of the founding principles such as the 12 principles taught in all mantis styles and is included in your handbook.

As far as distinctiveness, Shr Shrfu has definitely put his touch in many places whether within forms or application of techniques and usage theory (methodology). He has learned over 200 forms. Not suggested unless you have the sparetime he and Tainan Mantis have training, researching, and teaching ALL DAY! He might learn several variations of a form, no need to remember every form in its entirety, thus will take the better of the techs in the particular form and put it in one praticed often for keepsake. However, it will be communicated to you what is part of the original tech/form and what is added (if any),why it was added, and where it came from (teacher). Adding a tech in a form will also allow one to know where his material is being taught.
With regards to forms, there is plenty of Manuals for the mantis styles for one to research, compare, and correct their material if interested in finding "purity" on their own.

Pong Lai training creates a distinctiveness that you may say, is different than most, unique, though the contents of our training and basis of our teachings are clearly the techs. of the mantis styles mentioned.

I have to go, time for tea and chat with a friend whom just walked in.

Pong Lai (Never under any other identity)

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

Interesting. From your post it seems to me, whether intended or not, that he's assimilating the different mantis styles back into one mantis style like the original. Rather than maintain the separate styles take the best from each (or the common material) and make one. This is similar to what I feel MC is doing, pulling Wah Lum back together under one roof. Interesting concept since I believe more understanding of less material is better than little understanding of a lot of material. Wong Long consolidated everything into 3 forms yet still managed to kick butt.

Pong lai
"In his eyes, and more directly, he feels that CMA or as we Westerners all think of it, now exists outside of Mainland China. This subject alone can be debated and discussed in length. "

I was genuinely surprised to find during my 1998 trip to China that many people looked on in amazement while we practiced Kung Fu in public areas. It's as if they never saw it before. I expected to see a lot of training going on in the parks but found very little Tai Chi, some Qi Gong (both in the mornings) and a lot of ballroom dancing (all evening and into the night)! The attitude seems to be that these arts are for old folks. Actually I found quite a bit more on last years trip. Escecially in the south.

[Pong Lai]

TM;

Coincidence. We submitted a response at about the same time.