Northern Style Butterfly Knives ?

[buddhapalm]

Hello everyone,

I know Butterfly Knife forms are traditionally found in Southern systems.

But I would like to ask if there are any Butterfly Knife (Wu Dip Dao) forms in any Northern systems that you know, or practice ?

How about Mizong/My Jhong style ?

I saw a photo of Raymond Wong of "My Jhong Law Hon" System standing next to a row of weapons. In the row were a set of Butterfly Knives. I just wonder if this weapon was part of the styles curriculum ?

Any information would be most helpful.

Cheers

Buddhapalm

[r.(shaolin)]

Hi Buddhapalm,

Hope all is well with you.

[NorthernShaolin]

Buddahpalm,

R(Shaolin) is right... the butterfly knives are pure southern style while Raymond Wong is a pure northern stylist. He is a master of Mi Tsung Lo han which is his base style and later learned Seven Star Praying Mantis and Tai Chi Praying Mantis. I do not believe he learned any southern styles. Perhaps you can show me the picture and I can tell you where the picture was taken. It might have been visiting another school.

R(Shaolin),
Clarification of Kuo Yu Chang's mixture of Northern and Southern linage.

Kuo Yu Chang's Northern Shaolin was pure when he taught it and as it was passed down in its pure form to only two disciples as such; Yim Shan Wu and to his nephew, Kuo Ding. His other disciples were traded to Tam Sam who was well known and popular southern master in Kwangchou area to learn Ts'ai Li Fut (later named North Wind Ts'ai Li Fut) as to demonstrate respect to the southern community. As far as I am aware when I conversed with these older generation, they have always kept the two styles separate. In another words, when they taught their students, they made sure that the student understood what they were learning, i.e. Northern or Southern, out of respect for the two Grandmaster.

Maybe the next generation after that decided to merge the two styles which would be too bad.

[r.(shaolin)]

It is my understanding that Kuo Yu Chang

[NorthernShaolin]

With repect to everyone and your sifus there is a misunderstanding of what Kuo Yu Chang taught and where he learned.

KYC did not learn in the Honan Shaolin temple but learned from the famous Yim Chi Wen, nicknamed Great Spear Yim from Shangtung. Great Spear Yim learned from his grandfather who ran an escort business. Kuo's NSL linage can be traced back to Gan Fung Chi (1723 AD).

The confusion here is that KYC was part of the KMT where it was encourage that all sifus respect and trade information to encourage CMA with the focus on Wu Tang and Shaolin. Most of the sifus in KMT were masters of Wu Tang or styles connected to Shaolin. It is here that KYC traded ideas with other masters and out of repect for each other the masters offen traded sets of each other style.

KYC traded sets with Wan Li Sheng (Lui Ho Chuan) and with Ch'ien Chan Sheng (Ch'a Chuan). It was here that KYC connected with Li Ching Lin and learned Yang's Tai Chi and the Wu Tang Swords and learned from Sun Lu Tang's Hsing-i and his Tai Chi.

When KYC went south and taught in KwangChou and in Kwangtung, his curriculumn included all of the above but he never stated that all this was NSL. He, like all the other masters from KMT, were encouraged to teach not only their own style but the other forms and styles that KMT was representing as well. People assumed that KYC combined all this stuff together and with all repect to KYC, this is really giving him too much credit.

NSL is a combination of the five northern mother styles and that is why it is really called Northern Style of Shaolin. It is really impossible for KYC to learn all five mother styles then turn around and formulate a new style in such a short period of time. Why would he learn 50 hand sets and condense them to 10 sets? To do such a feat would be a collectively effort of many masters over a period of years. Do not be mistaken. KYC was an excellent MA fighter, not a genius.

Southern influence in NSL is in North Wind Ts'ai Li Fut but not in the NSL sets. However if a student learned NWTLF first before NSL, his presentation will tend towards power rather than fluidiness. Many of these students came out of H.K. and hence made their way to other countries. And this is what a majority of MA see today.

[r.(shaolin)]

Hi NorthernShaolin

[Pilgrim]

I appreciate the info regarding Master Kao Tao Sheng (KTS). Being from Ohio, I was wondering if you could : (1) give the names of his primary sets (hand, staff, spear especially) (2) if he taught any unusual strength programs;(3) if he had associates named Master Jin and Master Lau; (4) and besides Ohio,which seems to have authentic sources, and I guess Washington, are there any possible contacts of his lineage in the US?

[Pilgrim]

No need for reply;I speed read and mistook KYC for Master Kao Tao Sheng.

[neito]

pretty much every region of the world with a military history has some sort of short version of a sword. Even if nothern cma do not specialize in butterfly sword they must use them or a close facsimile at some time. or at least thats what i would expect.

[Ben Gash]

Hi, according to an article in IKF many moons ago and a website that I have sadly forgotten the address of Mizhong Lohan does use butterfly knives.

[buddhapalm]

Hi Ben,
Thanks for your reply. I will probably try to contact some Mizong Lohan schools to ask them. Please let me know if you find or remember the web page.

Cheers

Buddhapalm