Question(s) about China

[PHILBERT]

I know that in Northen styles, they have more kicks than Southern styles because of hills. Are there more hills located in Northern or Southern China?

Next question, this one about language. Cantonese and Mandarin are the 2 main languages in China, so I've heard. So is Mandarin spoken more in one part of China and Cantonese is spoken more in the other part or is it pretty much mixed up?

Thanks.

[Ray Pina]

I'm not CHinese but:

Mandarin is the "official" language. That's what you will encounter most, especially if in upscale venues. However, in nYC Chinatown, a lot of poeple speak Cantonese, especially waiters and people chillin on the streets.

As for the kick, yes, north enphasis kicks, but I really look at it as the foot. The power comes from the foot, the foot puts you in position. From nothrr styles now I'm speaking of Ba Gua, I don't know about Eagle Claw and what not.

Kicking is important, lot's of power. Punches are for fighting, kicking is for killing -- that's what my sifu says.

I see it as a lot of S styles, let's say wing chun, is very concenred with hands. Getting the hand on top mostly. We focus on a strong hand position, then get a good pushing angle and then blast them. That's why: Northern Foot, Southern Fist.

Well, that's my take. Maybe some Chinese people here can explain it better.

[norther practitioner]

not chinese either, but alot of the people in china towns got here via hong kong, so they speak cantonese, however in mainland china, most speak some form of mandarin. My boss is chinese, born in hunan, lived in taiwan for a number of years, he says he has trouble talking with a lot of others who speak mandarin, simply because of multiple subdialects. kinda like southern talk and yankee talk in the us, but worse. almost like a english professor talking to a hip hop dude using slang (assuming that the prof. didn't know slang of course), neither will understand each other, but still both speaking english. There are also some localized dialects of chinese, aka shanghainese.
As far as kicking, and punching, I have always understood it that in southern china, they didn't emphasize lower stance and kicks because they were dealing with wetter land (over all). In the north it is mountainous and rocky, so they had better land to stand on, hence the kicks.
I am by no means an expert on this subject.....so don't quote me on it.....but I'll open my mouth anyway (I should really stop this habit, it usually only causes trouble).

[rubthebuddha]

one thing my sisok likes to point out:

fighting up north = lotsa room for deep stances and long-range kicks

fighting in hong kong = a whopping .03 ft² of personal space, so you're going to bounce off four guys before you get that beauty kick off.

:cool:

[red_fists]

I think the northern/southern split also had to do with the Opponents.

People on harder /solid ground are more likely to be heavily armored, mounted and often use long range weapon.

While the same would be a hindrance in marshy, wet areas.

Not an absolute of course

Just a thought.

[rubthebuddha]

probably a combination of a lot of things.

also, maybe this: southern chinese are usually shorter, northern are usually much taller. could be that the southern have plenty of kicks, they just don't look like they're moving all that much. :D

[PHILBERT]

So basically, Southern China has more damp conditions, so no kicks. Northern China has more mountains, therefore more kicks. The main thing I was wondering was which part of China had flat land and which had mountains.

I figured Northern China would have flat lands, and that is why they have more kicks. But now that I think of it, flat land means less hills for water to run down so the water will just stay there for a while before it evaporates. While in the North, with the hills, after a good rain it can all just wash away.

[CrushingFist]

even ppl in guangdong speak mandaring, well, educated ppl, the rest of china, they speak mandarin for the most part, as well as educated ppl in HK.

so.. North: actually northern mabu is not as deep as southern, northern mabu is also more like a real HORSE STANCE, it's not squared like a southern mabu. North, there is more ice and mud and dirt and hills etc so they are constantly moving and have to have really strong footwork to not slip, so a deep stance takes longer to get out of so sometimes stances aren't that deep.

South: flat, and yes it is wet in south but the footwork in south is more stationary and mabu and gong bu are lower, just look at hung gar, hung fut, CLF but CLF is kinda considered southern with northern kicks, but the actually footwork is pretty southern...

AS for stuff that went to HK, a LOT of ppl say that the HK versions are watered down, saying that , after ppl brought it from china, most of the students weren;t as good as their masters and it all went downhill, ppl got lax, and easier, and nobody could compare to their sifus at all.

But hey, i didn't say that, it's just what a lotta ppl DO say.

[Ryu]

I have no idea on either questions. (though I think Cantonese is the official language of Hong Kong, and dialects of Mandarin are in mainland and Taiwan)

Where's King T when I need him?

Ryu

[Sow Choy]

Hello,

I have been to China, both North and South. I think the landscape is not a main factor in development in the art, I feel maybe the size, structure and mindset of the individuals who developed the style played a larger part.

There are many different dialects in China, even the Mandarin is different. Some of the Southern dialects are closer to Cantonese like: Hakka and Toi San.

While in China I mostly saw Wushu, but next month I will visit Fut Shan and see some of our great history. I feel Hong Kong definitely harbored some of the greats in Chinese Kung Fu, probably due to the fact Mao wanted all the Kung Fu practioneers killed or jailed. So, I don't agree about Hong Kong being watered down.


:)

[NafAnal]

I think Cantonese is spoken in the south of china. Canton surprisingly. Of course it's the chosen dialect in HK. Mandarin being the most widespread i guess.

All the characters are the same, just the pronounciation is different. Mandarin has this lovely slurry quality to it i think sounds cool. Cantonese sounds too common if y'know what i mean.

I reckon this landscape stuff is bullsh1t for the most part. Although there's probably some truth in it. There are other far more important factors in style development.

[xiong]

I had heard something along the lines of what Rub the Buddha said, more open space in the North allowing for kicks.

As far as language goes Mandarin (putonghua/common speach) and Cantonese (guangdonghua/guangdong region speach) are the two main chinese dialects. Mandarin was designated the official language by the government while Cantonese is spoken in most chinese communities outside of China due to the great maritime and merchantile traditions of Hong Kong(Xiang Gang/fragrant Harbor) and South China in general.

In addition to these major dialects there are of course many other regional dialects such as Toisan/Hoysun(Taishanhua), Fukienese(Fujianhua/Fujian province speach), Hakka(Kejiarenhua/guest peoples speach), Chow Chou(you got me), Taiwanese, etc.

This is a situtation that is not unique to China. Castilian Spanish is the official language of Spain, but there are other dialects of Spanish and even languages like Basque and Catalan which don't soundlike Spanish. Basque is even linguistically distinct. Or France with the Languedoc, Langeudoil variants of French. The central government imposing it's version of language on the nation is not unique to China. What is interesting however is that Mao and many other of the CCP leaders were not native Mandarin speakers.

Thats my essay for the day.

[Crimson Phoenix]

You forgot the Wu dialect in the Shanghai area, spoken by millions...

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

I also think the north & south being influenced by the landscape is BULLSH!T. There's a lot of southern styles that have great footwork & high kicks, go check out a good Hung ga or Choy Lee Fut school. Also there's northern styles that focus more on hands too. This stereo type of north & south is BULLSH!T.
What if either Masters travelled out of there region, so their style would be disadvantaged. Do u guys think that these brilliant men that founded these great fighting systems would have limited their styles in anyway.

[rubthebuddha]

it's a commonly held explanation and it makes sense to a lot of people from a lot of different styles -- both northern and southern, so calling it bull**** isn't doing you much good. it's not going to be the sole reason, but i have a jackson that says it's one of the major factors.

not all practitioners were masters, and a lot of arts were just meant to be ways of defending either the common person or the common soldier. few people had the time to achieve mastery, so they simply learned as much as they could from what worked best in their given area.

i'm still waiting for a better explanation, but i don't think i should hold my breath. :rolleyes:

[JasBourne]

"not all practitioners were masters, and a lot of arts were just meant to be ways of defending either the common person or the common soldier. few people had the time to achieve mastery, so they simply learned as much as they could from what worked best in their given area. "


I totally agree. It's easy to get carried away with the fantasy that everyone running around in China was Wong Fei Hung or Fong Sai Yuk. We forget that 99.99% of them were just regular spuds like people are today. Who the heck had the time (or inclination) to become a kungfu 'master' when it took all your energy to till the fields, round up the chickens, and hide the family from whatever marauding army was passing through that week.