OT: Daniel Pearl Dead [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Budokan

02-21-2002, 09:00 PM

These terrorist animals wouldn't give a hoot in h*ll if journalists were "untouchable" like Red Cross workers or not. Given the opportunity, some of them will kill any American they can, at any time, in any way.

They HATE us. Don't you understand that simple fact? They HATE us and don't care anything about who is innocent or who is guilty. In their eyes, all Westerners--and especially ALL Americans--are open game.

They're not going to change their minds and you're not going to be able to reason with them. Ever.

That's why they must die. Because, buddy, if it comes down to them or my family, then it's just gonna have to be THEM. Trust me, the sun will still come up in the East and the world will still turn and the human race will continue to advance after we kill and wipe all these rabid animals from the face of the earth.

They just aren't that important to the historical movement of a civilization that wants to live in peace with the other peoples of the world. Nobody misses a rabid dog. Well, except maybe Old Yeller....

rogue

02-21-2002, 09:39 PM

1. Sorry to ewallace and Stranger, my jab wasn't aimed at you two.

2. KC: Sadly for Mr Pearl he didn't get the memo that the rules of the game had changed. "Hi Mr. Mullah? Yes I'd like to talk over your connections to al Qeda and how you guys are laundering money. Meet you in some dark and lonely place? Great I'll be there". Unfortunatly that's pretty much how it went down.
Look, these guys aren't Hamas, these thugs play rougher and for keeps, that is why the picture was posted as a subtle reminder to those too thick headed to get the point. These are not Nationalists trying to make a point, or win freedom for their oppressed country, these are animals on a crusade to make the world over in their insane vision. If Geraldo can get it, why not the rest of the news world?

3. Budokan,These animals will be hunted down. And exterminated like the ants under ewallaces feet.

raving_limerick

02-21-2002, 10:37 PM

This is the worst news of a long time, simply because this man's death served no purpose. Why kill a man with no power? Why hold him hostage? How is this supposed to further your cause.

For once, I think I'm in complete agreement with the hawks on this one. These guys should be smoked out and then erased. I'd love to see these kidnappers hang in the Hague like the last of the Third Reich.

I just can't understand what leads people to think like this, be they members of the Bader-Meinhoff gang, IRA, Kurdish Liberation Army, Jihaad, etc.. How is killing an innocent person going to turn the world to your cause? All it'll do is give the other side the justification for your death. Not that I feel sorry for these chumps now or ever, but the "logic" behind all such acts just boggles my mind.

My prayers go to the widow and her unborn child. I can't imagine growing up without knowing my father, nor can I imagine his widow's grief. In Pace Requiescat, Mr. Pearl.

ewallace

02-22-2002, 07:24 AM

Actually rogue I took your post as complete sarcasm. Saying lets understand them and then a link to the wtc building. I figured you meant to say fuk em.

rogue

02-22-2002, 07:26 AM

It's not about turning the West to their cause, it's about getting the West to stay out of their way.

Badguys: Iran, Sudan and various militantly orthodox Islamists groups like the Wahabs.

Their goal: To establish a Caliphate that includes East Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia.

What stands in their way, Isreal, Egypt, US, England, Italy and as wild cards Iraq & Pakistan.

Strategy: Destabilize the non-Islamic governments of countries with large Moslem populations and foster a Islamists (rather than nationalists) revolution.

Tactics: Assasinations, terrorism and direct armed struggle.

Future Internal Problems: Shiite Iran wants to run the Caliphate but so do the Sunni Wahabs.

KC Elbows

02-22-2002, 07:28 AM

I don't recall saying these guys SHOULDN'T be stamped out. In fact, I never said that. I just find it offensive to use another's death as an excuse to push forward political views. If memory serves correctly, a few of you don't like it when gun control advocates use accidental deaths by firearms to push stricter gun control.

These guys should be stamped out. Thouroughly. And Rogue, I didn't state the rules had changed. Journalists are always in danger from such regimes.

You have valid points on these matters, I'm just stating that this is not the thread for this argument. I'd be glad to discuss this on one of the two threads going right now that directly relate to these issues, as opposed to a thread about the loss of an individual, not our political views.

And budo, I didn't ever argue for reasoning with them. Most of my previous arguments were for adjusting our foreign policy so that we would no longer help create conditions that would foster such groups.

Budokan

02-22-2002, 07:31 AM

Pearl's death served no purpose. But then neither did the innocent lives lost in the WTC attacks.

What I can't understand is, if you know what these animals are like, why in the world would you go to meet them in a dark alley...? Sure, I understand all about journalistic integrity; I do have a degree in Journalism although I never worked professionally in the field. But, shouldn't good old common sense come into play as well somewhere down the line...?

All in all, it's very sad, but not unexpected. Still, his death along with the deaths of the innocents in the WTC should be avenged.

KC Elbows

02-22-2002, 07:32 AM

BTW, Rogue, your last post is interesting(the enemy, their goals, etc.) Its not hard to picture the motivation, as everyone wants to be a super-power.

ewallace

02-22-2002, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by raving_limerick
I just can't understand what leads people to think like this, be they members of the Bader-Meinhoff gang, IRA, Kurdish Liberation Army, Jihaad, etc.. How is killing an innocent person going to turn the world to your cause?

I think a lot of it has to do with drawing media attention to get the world to focus on their sorry ass cause. They understand that their actions will bring tons of media coverage. This is by no means placing blame on the media.

Hey Ralek, how would you use BJJ in a situation where you had 4 or 5 very mean fundementalists with submachine guns?

JWTAYLOR

02-22-2002, 07:42 AM

Did anyone else hear that he had his throat cut? I could have sworn I heard that on Fox News early this morning.

Does anyone see any major difference between these Islamic Terrorists and people like the Arian (sp?) Nation?

JWT

rogue

02-22-2002, 07:46 AM

KC, this is about Pearl and what he was going after. The people that had him killed were under investigation here in the US, one of their compounds is here in VA and a big one is in CA. When 9/11 happened resources were moved from them to bin Laden and al Qeda. Turns out that Pearl had found a thread connecting the two groups and was investigating the connection himself. My opinion is that they kidnapped and murdered Pearl as a warning to other journalists to back off, the reason for the video.

KC Elbows

02-22-2002, 07:46 AM

JWT,
The only difference I see between the two is that the aryan nation is in a society that does not, for the most part, openly support their cause or turn a blind eye on major operations.

Otherwise its the same "fundamentalist" crap. If our fundamentalists had similar power, I'll bet you you'd see a lot more nasty stuff happening here.

KC Elbows

02-22-2002, 07:47 AM

Rogue,
I already know that, or at least that was my assumption as well.

JasBourne

02-22-2002, 07:48 AM

Their goal: To establish a Caliphate that includes East Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia.

That's hysterical. and they call *us* Imperialist and Expansionary! Just let those social freaks try to put me in a bhurka, I'll chien tiu ti them right in the cookies!

:mad:

Budokan

02-22-2002, 07:53 AM

The news outlets haven't been explicit on what the State Department saw in the video to make them determine Pearl was dead. But it had to have been a cut throat or a hole in the head or something like that, I would think.

ewallace

02-22-2002, 08:32 AM

His throat was cut.

JWTAYLOR

02-22-2002, 08:47 AM

Fox news just said "stabbed to death a minute ago."

Why does the phrase "live by the sword, DIE, motherfu(ker DIE, by the sword" come to my mind?

I need a beer. Anybody in Austin want lunch and a beer?

JWT

ewallace

02-22-2002, 08:55 AM

CNN said that on the video he was talking and then his throat was cut. Regardless, there is no negotiating with these people. Kill 'em all and let God sort them out. I wish I could join you for a beer up there but I already missed two days of work this week.

LEGEND

02-22-2002, 09:01 AM

It's time to take those guys out...mafia style...we can't get to them...get to their families...I'm sorry...this is no time for morals...explain it to them in a language they understand...violence.

ewallace

02-22-2002, 09:03 AM

Yeah, modified LA style. Introduce them to the Camel-by!!

Couldn't resist that one.

JWTAYLOR

02-22-2002, 09:09 AM

Yep, now Fox is saying his throat was cut.

Maybe they don't see a difference, maybe he was stabbed and his throat was cut.

Must wait...to be...deployed...

Still needin that beer.

JWT

Budokan

02-22-2002, 12:25 PM

ROFLMAO @ "Camel-by".

That's a classic!:D

chen zhen

02-22-2002, 12:45 PM

I heard on the news that his head where literally chopped off...
But whatever they did, the result is his death. very sad.

rogue

02-22-2002, 12:50 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020222/ts_nm/attack_pakistan_reporter_dc_170&cid=578

ewallace

02-22-2002, 12:59 PM

I guess that should clear up any debate about us not treating prisoners humanely.

rogue

02-22-2002, 09:46 PM

"I AM A JEW".

I hope he said it proudly and with defiance in his voice.

He must have been onto something for them to send this kind of message. I'd put this down as a miscalculation by the badguys. Did they think they were going to scare off other journalists? And now the FBI is back to investigating them here in the US.

KC Elbows

02-23-2002, 07:48 AM

I would imagine they knew who they were dealing with. Watched a national geographic special on Daniel. He caught a lot of footage of the soviets misbehaving in afghanistan before other journalists were making it out there, and had a big helping hand in bringing attention to the fact that the soviets weren't in complete control, and thus vulnerable.

Could be the enemy was familiar enough with what kind of work he does, and knew he'd do his best to expose their weaknesses.

Tongue_of_Colibob

02-23-2002, 01:41 PM

I only wish that his wife and unborn child can cope with the grief.

jaz1069

02-24-2002, 01:13 PM

Intelligence and law enforcement officials who have viewed the tape said it showed Mr. Pearl, full face and in conversation until the hands of unknown assailants intruded into the picture to pull his head back by the hair and to slit his throat. Later in the tape, Mr. Pearl's dismembered head was shown, said the officials, who spoke on condition that their nationalities not be specified.

That is taken from a story in the NY Times.

Savage basstards, they accomplish nothing except strengthen the resolve of those that may of been on the fence, not to mention their only allies...the press.

John

yuanfen

02-24-2002, 04:32 PM

What stands in their way, Isreal, Egypt, US, England, Italy and as wild cards Iraq & Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------
Rogue-
Your list is considerably skewed. Pakistan's Interservice Intelligence has been the real government withing the Pakistan army. They are the folks who lit the fire under the Taliban and
other terrorist groups in South Asia. Under US pressure Musharraf
shows a different face for his personal survival. Omar Sheikh , the guy now held for Pearl's murder is responsible also for the attack on India's parliament, the front of the USIS in Calcutta and his "Colleagues" have been involved in numerous terrorist acts in india. The American Taliban Lind now on trial has infiltrated into India as well in his Taliban days.Bin Laden's terror list prominently included India-the same for the terrorists in pakistan.
Cant be selective about the terrorists- with Pakistani support they have roamed in many places in the region.
Dont be fooled by the Pakistani dictatorship-the fox is in the chicken coop.
TW-Cina is about to build a big naval port in West Pakistan-
really not in the US interest. Think of the big picture.

red_fists

02-24-2002, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by jaz1069

That is taken from a story in the NY Times.

Savage basstards, they accomplish nothing except strengthen the resolve of those that may of been on the fence, not to mention their only allies...the press.

John

The latest Reports on Reuters and AP
say that he was dead already when the Tape was shot.

It was not immediately apparent, due to the way that the tape was cut and edited.

P.S.: No proof, that they are evenlinked to Al Quaeda.
As expected chop one head of the Terrorist Hydra and it will sprout another 3 new ones.Definately a fight that the US cannot win, unless the eradicate every single Human on Earth.

rogue

02-24-2002, 05:27 PM

Of course you're correct yuanfen, the ISI has been a supporter, supplier and trainer for what we're now calling al Qeda. I still don't know how the dynamic between England & the US, India and Pakistan will work out. That's one reason I put Pakistan in as a wildcard. I don't trust Musharraf, but I also don't know how much of an Islamic zealot or how pragmatic he is either. Iraq is there because Sadaam could careless about Islam and has visions of a Pan Arabian Iraqi state in mind anyway.

rogue

02-24-2002, 06:23 PM

Story about video tape (http://www.msnbc.com/news/714890.asp?cp1=1)

"Americans can’t walk around free as long as our government’s policies continue,” he said. “America will bear the consequences of our government’s unconditional support for Israel."

'SOURCES FAMILIAR WITH THE contents of the vicious home movie, obtained by the FBI on Friday, say Pearl’s throat is then suddenly slit with a knife. A hand is shown holding his severed head. The tape cuts to his captors repeatedly stabbing his lifeless body. Pearl’s head is then shown lying on a pile of newspapers as a message scrolls in the foreground: “If our demands aren’t met, there will be more scenes like this.”'

1) Hmmm, wonder why Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh felt safe enough to surrender to the Pakistani police.

2) Let's free the Gitmo bunch, give them plenty of food and water for the trip, point them toward home and let them start swimming.

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 06:36 PM

REDFIST...wrong dood...u can win! Any war can be won as long as u do what it takes. This is not the WAR on DRUGs where we really don't care about the drug problem. Or a war in VIETNAM or KOREA where we're not allowed to WIN! This is different...this is when we go out with INTELLIGENCE information...and hunt down terrorist cells and kill them. Sure they'll be others that will form and pop up...big deal...once exposed...they will be liquated and any supporting foreign countries( IRAQ and IRAN ) supporting them...the problem with terrorists is that their way does not work anymore! For years they have hijacked boats...planes etc...and proceeded to execute non fighting civilians...to strike fear and so forth! Last time someone tried to blow up a plane( Mr. Reid ) he came out with a black eye...even the stewardes jump him! We're mad...we're really mad! And the last time we were THIS MAD was when the Japanese attacked PEARL HARBOR. Look what happen to them. They are operating against the odds. Terrorists need money to operate...we know who are giving them money...they need contacts for visa and housing...we'll find out who they are and squeeze them for information( thru money or I'm sure the CIA can send in SODIUM PENTDOL or enlist MOSSAD information extraction tactics )...when we locate a terrorist cell group...we send in peeps to eliminate them. Over time...we will hunt them down keep them on the run until they are killed. SURE...they'll be other groups that pop up...but we'll be ready!

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 06:40 PM

ROGUE...u know what bro??? Those terrorists screwed up...they were trying to SCARE us with this video...with Mr. Pearl's death...guess what...based on your reaction and tons of others...we're ****ed! We're not scared! And we will find them and video tape their demise. Watch that on FOX.

red_fists

02-24-2002, 06:54 PM

There are many different reports out there as to what is supposed to be on the Tape.

So far not much has been relesed even to the media.

Here is an article from the Washington Post that was printed in todays Japan Times. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58168-2002Feb23.html)

Interesting on how the stories of what is on the tape differ.
Makes me wonder who got the REAL news and story, and how much People are fed to get a certain resonse.

rogue

02-24-2002, 06:57 PM

Legend a long while back I was talking with a sniper buddy. I asked how he could hypothetically look though a scope see a man and end his life without remorse. His response was "It's just taking out the trash, no more no less". The more I get to know this particular strain of vermin, the more I finally understand what he meant. They made a choice to be evil and will be paid in kind.

An interesting book by Caleb Carr is
The Lessons of Terror: A History of Warfare Against Civilians, Why It Has Always Failed and Why It Will Fail Again

Red, Yeah I heard the same thing on FOX and I'm always hesitent about quoting from MSNBC. The tape will hit the net sooner or later, not sure if I want to see it since I'm p1ssed off enough.

yuanfen

02-24-2002, 07:11 PM

We are getting away from kung fu but I couldnt let the last post pass. Nonsense red fists...the details of Pearl/s death does not change the awful act.
Al Qaeeda, Taliban and the Pakistan Military"s Inter Service Intelligence are just different masks for the same terrorist face....that makes lawlessness, dictatorship and terrorism possible... bin Laden's people are still being sheltered in Pakistan.
Read exiled ex elected prime minister benazir Bhutto's comments on Musharraf's facade in the Christian Science monitor just before Musharraf's US visit around valentine's day.
The guy who mastermined the bombing of the Trade center several years back was also headquartered in Pakistan.

red_fists

02-24-2002, 07:18 PM

Rogue.

I think you show the exact mindset that the 9/11 Terrorists wanted to create when they hit you Guys.

In short get your Goverment and the US Citizens so upset & single minded that they will declare outright war and alienate the rest of the world.

In a perfect outcome the rest of the world would eventually cut political and ecomonic ties to the USA and isolate it from the rest of the world.

So, I think that you are playing right into the hands of what the Guys wanted.
Attack multiple countries(still to come as sure as Bush is President), loose friends worldwide and show that you are not the Top & Superior nation that you claim to be.

Yes, call other People "Evil", "garbage", & " axis of evil" in an international Environment will make many happy friends, and gather support for your cause.

Yes, wage all out war, build extra missile defenses, up security and deplete the US money reserves. Somebody got to pay for all the Hardware being dropped and build, and guess where your Tax dollars will disappear to??

Preferably, next would be accusing Countries that don't want to play the globalisation game, greenhouse game on US rules that they support Terrorism by not going along with the US.

Would it have happened under Clinton, or Gore, I doubt it as they needed a certain type of President at the helm.

Just pondering out loud.

P.S. Not saying that this is what the goal was, but it makes sense to me.
Ruin the USA economically and in the eyes of the rest of the world.

rogue

02-24-2002, 07:45 PM

Aw heck Red Fist, I was this way long before this happened.

It would be incredibly hard to cut economic ties to us. We supply way too much of the world with food and consume lot's of wares from other countries so that is unlikely to happen. We loose friends worldwide all the time and get new ones, it goes with the territory being the Top & Superior nation that we claim to be. :D

I think that they really believed that we were cowards and would crumble. That's the thing about terrorism, it's about manipulating people by fear of what the terrorists might do. From fear our economy took a dip but still didn't kill us, people stopped traveling but it still didn't kill us.

As far as calling them vermin, garbage and referring to their putrid lives, I's just calls um likes I sees thems.

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 09:30 PM

REDFIST...not true...terrorism acts are about fear! Guys like SADDAM HUSSEIN and BIN LADEN did not have the ULTIMATE objective of turning the rest of the civilize world against us! That's just BS OLIVER STONE conspiracy theory. Try selling your ideal to a producer...might make a great JAMEs BOND movie. BIN LADEN and SADDAM HUSSEIN has the JOSEPH STALIN and ADOLPH HITLER mentality. They want their people( MUSLIMs ) to fight for their cause which verify in various videos and intelligence report is to vanquish the west( US, ISRAEL, NATO, RUSSIA etc... ). They don't care about our economic plight etc...recessions and booms come and go...no big deal...I've been thru it twice...once in 93-94 and now going thru it! These guys want to be HEROs to their peeps by using a common goal...like HITLER...blame it on da jews! Like BIN LADEN...blame it on da wests! This is really nothing new...this has gone on for centuries...ROMANs...blame it on da CHRISTIANs...Japanese blame it on da chinese...etc...u'll get ego manics all the time! BIN LADEN is no different from DAVID KORESH...they both had followers...the only thing is BIN LADEN had more money and time to organize and group. While KORESH kept thangs on da DL and wasn't bent on creating havoc...BIN LADEN was...he did want the US to attack AFGHANISTAN...but he underestimated the stomach of the other ARAB countries...u can see that in another transcript video that he critcizes other ARAB countries as backstabing MUSLIMs for being united against TERRORISM. He was ****ed that no one was jumping his bandwagon! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

red_fists

02-24-2002, 09:46 PM

Legend.

I see you like to stereotype people.

Maybe a wee bit more research & logic might help.
How the Hell would a few2nd & 3rd world Countries that are undernourished, underarmed, under-educated for the most part achieve that.

Ride their camels across the Waters to attack the US??
Sorry, the Muslim world would be hard pushed to do any major offensive against the US and vice versa.

Terrorism works because it hits you without a warning and out of nowhere and thus makes you doubt yourself and your abilities, and from that derives actions with which you will hurt yourself.

It also works because you realise the know where you live and what affects you while you cannot even touch them.
Terror is a mind game and has NOTHING to do with Hitler nor Stalin or some of other examples you cited.
I can tell you that if they wanted to kill US-Citizens they could have choosen locations where a hell of a lot more casualties would have occurred.

Or how about skip 9-11 and go for the Salt Lake City Olympic Opening ceremony without any prior warning, or the Superbowl final.
No Terror works by lots of isolated small incidents that occur randomly.Look at the Gaze stripe, BOTH sides use Terror to try to force their Opponent into submitting.

As for US Economy not being affected, Yes and No.
Yep, the bourses took a dip and recovered. But International travel both to and from the US is down, meaning less foreign currency and needed hotel bookins & sales.

But I guess it is easier to evaluate the situation from the outside.

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 10:09 PM

I see you like to stereotype people.
"where do u see that???"

Maybe a wee bit more research & logic might help.
How the Hell would a few2nd & 3rd world Countries that are undernourished, underarmed, under-educated for the most part achieve that. Ride their camels across the Waters to attack the US?? Sorry, the Muslim world would be hard pushed to do any major offensive against the US and vice versa.
"Where did u get that in my post...I suggest u wee read into my post more detailed. I never said anything about the middle east launching an offensive attack."

Terrorism works because it hits you without a warning and out of nowhere and thus makes you doubt yourself and your abilities, and from that derives actions with which you will hurt yourself.
"Terrorism works to instill fear...u talk about Derive actions...what do u mean??? Come up with an example."

It also works because you realise the know where you live and what affects you while you cannot even touch them.
"It does not work because the aim is to instill fear and psychological terror to paralize us. U're way off here!"

Terror is a mind game and has NOTHING to do with Hitler nor Stalin or some of other examples you cited.
"Once again u're losing track of the study of the masterminds of the individual. Are u a CRIMINAL JUSTICE major??? I'm in my 4th year here in CRIMINAL JUSTICE and focus on the study of counter terrorism at GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY."

I can tell you that if they wanted to kill US-Citizens they could have choosen locations where a hell of a lot more casualties would have occurred.
" Really??? The WORLD TRADE CENTER was suppose to have over 10000 peeps per weekday. The other targets the PENTAGON...possibly LAX( Los Angeles International Airport ) and several other locations that fortunately didn't succeed would have cause numerous civilian targets."

Or how about skip 9-11 and go for the Salt Lake City Olympic Opening ceremony without any prior warning, or the Superbowl final.
"Here's where u're DEAD WRONG! The OLYMPIC and SUPERBOWL has had anti terrorism watch for years...they would have had to plan very very well and would have great difficulty implementing a terrorist attack at those events. Ever since the OLYMPIC attacks in MUNICH where several terrorists killed the ISRAEL olympic squad. That to many terrorists have been an unlikely target due to security. They like to pick easier non guarded targets. I give them credit for such an excellent operation on 9-11."

No Terror works by lots of isolated small incidents that occur randomly.Look at the Gaze stripe, BOTH sides use Terror to try to force their Opponent into submitting.
As for US Economy not being affected, Yes and No.
Yep, the bourses took a dip and recovered. But International travel both to and from the US is down, meaning less foreign currency and needed hotel bookins & sales.
" Hey **** happens but whatabout a year from now...whatabout 10 years from now???"

But I guess it is easier to evaluate the situation from the outside.
"Yes...outside of any knowledge of CRIMINAL JUSTICE/COUNTERTERRORISM thinking."

CD Lee

02-24-2002, 10:27 PM

Red:

You said terrorism works because...

How has it worked? It has not worked at all. We are more against them now than ever, we are chasing them down, killing them and will continue to do so, just like we do dangerous wild animals.

Why do we kill wild dangerous animals?

1. The are dangerous and kill people.

2. They cannot be reasoned with.

3. Their bahavior is such that they cannot be allowed to live among any other people safely.

3. Their animal nature cannot be fixed by any means.

If terrorism works, why don't Americans just change thier policies and bow to the filthy animals and child killers? Because, it does not work, and we ain't changing just because some scourges of the earth don't like our friends. If we support Israel, then we do, and we will. They killed thousands in the WTC, and guess what? Fukk-em. We still support Israel. Now, let's hunt the little *******ds down and kill them one by one.

red_fists

02-24-2002, 10:33 PM

Legend.

Does your "CRIMINAL JUSTICE/COUNTERTERRORISM" include reading "Mein Kampf" and simialr works.

I doubt it, it was required reading during my School years when we did 3yrs of WWII study.

They want their people( MUSLIMs ) to fight for their cause which verify in various videos and intelligence report is to vanquish the west( US, ISRAEL, NATO, RUSSIA etc... ).

BTW, this is where the Middle east offensive is mentioned in your Post.

And I guess you got access to all those reports and can varify their authenticity??

You say West, Including (Nato, ISRAEL & Russia).
1.) How do you attack NATO??
2.) Israel is a middle eastern Country not western, Russia is also NOT considered a western Country.

How will Saddam Hussein or Bin Laden get the support from the Muslims to "vanquish the West", or do we just kill them now for a bit of hopefull wishing.

Stalin & Hitler were in charge of some of the most powerful Countries of their time. Still no Terrorists there, nor do I see them use Terrorism.
I am aware of the "Enemy picture" that they used to gain support. Studied that in Psychology class, but not the same as Terrorism.
As this technique is even used in Business strategies.

I am sure that Bush has dreams of owning the Middle East and it's Oil-reserves.
Does he now belong to the same Criminal mindset??

So we get rid of Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, some other offensive People and Terrorism will be wiped out.

Sorry, not in my book.

I also doubt if the Olympic Opening cermony and Superbowl Counter-terrorism measures included Jumbo's dropping on the Stadium.
Or having Fighters cirlce overhead to intercept such a Plane.

Not that I was aware of during the Nagano nor any other Olympic I am aware of.

Sorry, you need stronger arguments to even get me back to read this thread.
I can see you got all the answers and therefor it is useless to continue taking to you.
Pity, the rest of the world doesn't have them.

red_fists

02-24-2002, 10:45 PM

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 11:03 PM

World War 2...I love that topic. I love the history and the numerous battles and the political implications that evolve from that war. One of favorite classes was taking a World War 2 class while at University of MD Baltimore County...but prob. a better WAR class especially in regards to terrorism is the Vietnam War. I'll get to that later. LOL.

Redfist my dear. You stated that I mention the middle east as launching an attack to destroy the west. You cut and paste nicely. No No No...u read into it WRONG AGAIN. I'm sure anyone that read that cut and paste can see what I'm talking about.

Once again...what Bin Laden's goal??? For each terrorist...they have different goals...from the HAMAS, to the terrorist group in the PHILIPPINEs...as in martial arts each style has a set of goals. What was BIN LADEN suspected based on his psychological profiling??? He was an ego maniac...he didn't mind admiting that he was the man to numerous attacks against the US and other westerners. But his goal in the Sept 11th attack was part economic...more out of "HEY LOOK WHAT I CAN DO!"...at which point the focus was on AFGHANISTAN...now I'm sure he studied the US encounter in VIETNAM. How we were driven away by as u say...3rd or 4th world armies...how americans could not stomach the blood of their young and so forth! So what did he do once we started targeting him??? He starts the same thing as SADDAM HUSSEIN...rallying the other middle eastern countries to join his cause to vanquish the US and their allies( NATO )...now NOOOOOOOO...they don't want to destroy our countries...cause they can't. But what they want to do is to force us out of the middle east in embarassing fashion as the NVA did in 75! Unfortunately...the same as SADDAM...he got no help and support from fellow middle eastern friends...well he got a couple thousands of other country muslims to join the talibans but they quickly got HURT by the US BOMBARDMENT and PRO US Afgan forces. Couldn't u feel BIN LADEN pain when he spoked out on video on the famous PAKISTANY news saying that all muslims should fight for us...that the pro muslim us gov. sucks and so forth??? I did. Now he's on the run. Maybe he's dead. Or maybe he's plotting...who knows...

Redfist my dear...there are many options in counterterrorism...as in the business world...some companies boom and some companies eventually faulter( like KMART )...unfortunately AL QUEDA will faulter. While other terrorist org. like HAMAs may have more longevity.

I'm not here to convince or convert your way of thinking...hehehe...I'm simply offering a more REALISTIC goal to what BIN LADEN and his group was doing. In comparison to your infamous...I think he was trying to make us( UNITED STATEs ) spend a lottttttttttttttttttttttttttttt of MONEY. Then we have no MONEY...then we alienate everyone else...then we have no friends. POOH. Sorry bro...that's just comical.

LEGEND

02-24-2002, 11:28 PM

Red:

You said terrorism works because...
How has it worked? It has not worked at all. We are more against them now than ever, we are chasing them down, killing them and will continue to do so, just like we do dangerous wild animals.
[B]

Who have you killed so far? Bin Laden?? Some Afghan Civilains, some Taliban Troops.
Bin Laden is still out there and thumping his nose at you Guys.
From latest reports he still got atleast 100 Operatives in the USA.
" LOL...not only have we push AL QUAEDA out of their HOME BASE but more importantly we have demonstrated a FRIGHTENING resolve of military might( ex: deposing the TALIBAN gov. ) which is very intimidating to NON COOPERATING countries. Notice how PAKISTAN who was the only country to recognize the TALIBANs is now being cooperative( it's called $$$ ).

Or do you Gusy really think that he is that stupid not to have planned for a strike on Afghanistan??
"He knew it was coming and hopeful to cause another VIETNAM! To be bad plan A went to hell...plan B is to run like hell."

Yep, he can figure out how to pull off 9-11, but can't see what will follow.
Get REAL Guys.
So I guess the reduction in overseas Tourims from US Citizens is a natural occurence??
"Hey I'm still going to CANCUN MEXICO dood for spring break! LOL...sadly he ended up hurting the MIDDLE EAST tourism economy...u won't see us AMERICANOs in Pakistan, Afghanistan, IRAQ or IRAN anytime soon. Alwayz wanted to visit the PYRAMIDs though...hell I'll go to VEGAS instead!"

US Citizens are as free and easy going as before 9-11??
"Hey I live here...u don't...yeah...we pretty much free and easy going as before...an hour extra wait to fly anywhere is ok...but hell we got the perfect anti terrorist plane jacking plan...anyone tries for the ****pit...yell "GET HIM!!!" Has been proven to work unfortunately for Mr. REID...also for the poor wasn't a terrorist guy near MIAMI...he got hit by the co pilot with an ax...and then the other passengers beat him down also!"

Sealed Envelopes leaking white powder don't do aything do you??
"Are u trying to scare us??? Let's figure that one out peeps...so far from FBI links...this is one guy...a possible enviornmental terrorist...loner like the UNABOMBER. Not AL QUADA. Hey dood life goes on."

This is how Terrorism works, subtle.
[B]
Why do we kill wild dangerous animals?

You avoid them.
"HUH??? OH MY GOD...u going to avoid fighting peeps trying to fight you??? You're going to keep running from them??? Give in to them...u have just commited the ultimate sin in COUNTERTERRORISM 101...u have BACK DOWN!"

If we support Israel, then we do, and we will. They killed thousands in the WTC, and guess what? Fukk-em. We still support Israel. Now, let's hunt the little *******ds down and kill them one by one.

You really think that 9-11 was about Israel??
Have fun Guys. I let you live in your own world.
My prognosis is Bin Laden will die a free man and Al Quaeda will continue existing after he died .
" Man...does this guy sound like he's anti US or what??? Red LADEN...what did the WE( I'm Vietnamese ) do to you to make u hate us so much??? "

KC Elbows

02-25-2002, 09:00 AM

OBL probably took credit for all the actions out of hubris, but undoubtedly he also saw that, if one person could be seen as capable of defeating the US at any game, then other players would join up.

As far as losing, its a wee bit early to tell. Allies in afghanistan are like ex-girlfriends: sure, you've done it with all of them, but will they do ya today? These allies could vanish at the drop of a hat, and the afghani situation could change drastically for us.

9-11 was, sadly, a good example at how a third world country can strike at a super-power. Its easy, once its just a citizen doing the planning froma country with a hundred factions that would gladly shelter that citizen given the right sum of money.

KC Elbows

02-25-2002, 09:06 AM

Legend,
Saying that OBL might survive all this isn't anti-American. The US hasn't had a great track record the last twenty years assassinating its enemy leaders. Its not really our forte. Otherwise, Iraq would right now have a CEO with a western name.

We might get OBL, but it is not a foregone conclusion. If Pakistan boils over, or our afghani "allies" go back to regular business, it'll complicate things for our operations. I hope we do get him, but it could go either way.

LEGEND

02-25-2002, 06:00 PM

KC...u're correct my friend...the US do to different political parties seem to screw up when they try to take out someone...JFK and CASTRO for example. I think however with BIN LADEN it's different...we really want to kill him...not capture him...and if we have the same objective as the israelis did chasing the 3 terrorists that killed their olympic soldiers...then we have a very good odds. Better than the israelis...they had to get squads in to ARAB countries and S. AMERICA to commit the hits.

Chris McKinley

02-25-2002, 11:18 PM

I just hope that one of the DevGru's or the Black Diamond Boys gets the green light on Pearl's killers (oops, did I say too much?).

Either that, or Bush grows the biggest presidential balls ever and rescinds E.O. 12333. After all, an ounce of preventive assassination is better than a pound of Operation Enduring Freedom cure. Ahh, to be single and wired-in again, if only for a few weeks.

red_fists

02-25-2002, 11:33 PM

Hi Legend.

Yes, to a certain degree I am "Anti-US", as are many people in the World.

I am not an American, nor would I want to be one.
Thanks, but happy with my own Country, even though I don't live there at the moment.

But as a Non-American my view-points and priorities differ, as I have not been brought up to respect American values.

Just some Info about me.

P.S.: Nobody is forced to read my posts, agree with them or anything similar.

P.S.S.: I am anti- lots of things. :)

Chris McKinley

02-26-2002, 01:21 AM

Feel free to be as anti-U.S. as you want to be. As long as you don't take up arms against my country, I'm cool with whatever goofy opinions you want to harbor. If you do take up arms against us, you become just another little white flashing dot in my Heads-Up Display. I won't discriminate. I'll be completely egalitarian in my subsonic flechetting munitions dispersement program. Enjoy. :)

guohuen

02-26-2002, 07:57 AM

Chris. Wood, aluminum or graphite? Turkey feathers or plastic? Just curious.

rogue

02-26-2002, 08:35 AM

Please pick me for jury duty!!! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020226/ts_nm/attack_pakistan_reporter_dc_240&cid=578)

ewallace

02-26-2002, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by rogue
[Please pick me for jury duty!!![/URL]

Forget jury duty, I wanna be a CO at the facility that they execute him at. I wouldn't mind slipping a little nerve gas down the IVs during his lethal injection.

jun_erh

02-26-2002, 11:17 AM

I hate these *******s who always act like you should listen to them because they know some dumb website or obscure book. It's like when born again freakos act like they're better than you because they read the bible more often, even though they obviously don't understand any of it. Daniel Pearl was killed because he was Jewish and American. They hate the Jews and the U.S. because we survive by adapting, because we survive period.

KC Elbows

02-26-2002, 11:29 AM

Yeah, people who read suck.:D

JasBourne

02-26-2002, 11:41 AM

"Daniel Pearl was killed because he was Jewish and American"

hahahahahahahaha!

no. He was taken and killed as a warning to the press to back the fu(k off and stop digging into terrorist network connections.

That he was jewish and a yank was just gravy.

rogue

02-27-2002, 12:16 PM

But I guess it's OK to send family here to make a buck.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20020227/ts/attack_poll_dc.html

ewallace

02-27-2002, 12:37 PM

and it really ****sed me off. Although the news agencies in some Muslim countries do feed their people a lot of BS to fuel their hatred of the US. It is kind of hypocritical that Muslims don't want people to view all Muslims as terrorists. But many hate all Americans just because they are Americans.

I would like to ask the women in Kabul if they thought the war is morally justified.

diego

02-27-2002, 01:30 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/02/26/mariane.pearl.cnna/

KC Elbows

02-27-2002, 01:54 PM

Its gotta be crazy for her right now. I couldn't imagine having to bury my spouse AND hold press conferences, interviews, etc.

I agree with a lot of what she said. One good bit:

"Wherever there's misery, they'll find people. And there's misery, you know, in a lot of parts of the world."

ewallace

02-27-2002, 03:18 PM

somewhere along the line there will have to be a limit on free speach. You cannot say you are going to kill the president and you cannot yell fire in a movie theatre. How about this crap:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,46610,00.html

Black Jack

02-27-2002, 03:41 PM

Rogue,

Yeah that site makes me a little ****ed, ****ed because I don't know when a lot of the liberal jackoofs on our side are going to wake the hell up and get it into their "love one another" heads that these people-if you can call them that-hate us with a dire passion, they dont care what we have done for them in the past and they dont care what we will be able to do for them in the future, they will go to any length to believe that we are the great evil.

Fucccck um or better yet nuke um.

KC Elbows

02-27-2002, 04:11 PM

That article stated:

"I don't know precisely what new immigrant schools taught when waves of Catholics or Jews first flocked to America. But I suspect they adopted and spread the basic American values — tolerance, freedom and patriotism."

That is the most naive cr@p I have ever read. The moron who wrote that should go to a used book store and find some really old history textbooks. And it wasn't just the immigrant schools, but what the public schools were teaching about the immigrants.

Yeah, *******s use textbooks to make more *******s. Who here is surprised?

Anyone who teaches that cr@p should be avoided and ostracized, and anyone who makes assumptions like the author of that article should stick to writing Hallmark cards.

KC Elbows

02-27-2002, 04:13 PM

Perhaps I should cut back on the caffeine.

jun_erh

02-28-2002, 01:31 PM

KC Elbows, I'm assuming you're a wing chun guy because of you're knee jerk response to my post. Yeah, I was really saying reading is dumb. That's what I WROTE.

Jasbourne- I think Daniel Pearl being both Jewish and American had more than a little to do with him being abducted and killed, just my opinion.

KC Elbows

02-28-2002, 01:43 PM

Jun_erh,
I was joking. Thus the big smile. Now, if it had been the knee jerk response, I would've done one os these:rolleyes: , or even a :( , but if you'd have really got to me, I'd've done a :mad: .

See my later post for a good example of a knee jerk response.;)

jun_erh

02-28-2002, 03:38 PM

just don't tell anyone what I said about wing chun. I'll get my ass kicked

KC Elbows

03-01-2002, 07:24 AM

rogue

03-04-2002, 10:57 AM

What happens when you spend a war in a bunker and not paying your cable bill.

http://library.northernlight.com/FC20020303500000013.html

This goes under, "Hey boss, are we letting flagged tangos onto airliners today?" Very sad, very stupid.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20020303/ap_on_re_us/airline_security_31

ewallace

03-04-2002, 03:33 PM

We saw what kind of spirit they had in the 90's. I really did not know that the Iraqi military salute was two hands straight up in the air. I also did not know their country's flag was solid white. :)

rogue

03-04-2002, 08:03 PM

Highway of death? What highway of death?

While at an airshow at Cherry Point I came across some down in the mouth Marines that operate the Pioneer. They were'nt getting much traffic, the construction guys had a bigger crowd. So I reminded them of this story and it cheered them up some, maybe they were just happy that someone remembered it.

"During the last week of the Gulf War, thousands of Iraqis surrendered......One of the most unusual surrenders took place when a Pioneer remotely-piloted vehicle droned above the battlefield, surveying potential targets. Five Iraqi soldiers waved white flags at its tiny television camera. it was the first time in history that men surrendered to a robot."