What Weapon is this????

[Black Tiger]

I saw this in one of the magazine ads and i was wondering if anybody recognized the weapon used in this picture. Thanks for any help.
http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/mudhouse/1181/Weapon.jpg

[wu_de36]

wind and fire wheels.
similar I'm assuming to deer horn knife in bagua.

http://www.wle.com//products/w044.html

[red_fists]

"Wind & Fire Wheels"

Used by a few styles. Easily to be bought online.

[Crimson Phoenix]

Need I say "Wind and Fire wheels"??? :D

[Kristoffer]

yeeeah I know what that is.. It's a fire and wind wheel. Used by a few styles, and u can buy it online. It's a bit round.

[isol8d]

Kung Fu Weapons (http://www.wahlum.com/weapons.htm)

Fire Wheels. #14.

[JWTAYLOR]

Anybody got any history on why this particular weapon was invented?

What about the deer horn knives?

What specific arts teach them?

JWT

[norther practitioner]

deer horn daggers, they are used in a few styles, including bagua. I saw someone do an eighth or tenth of the form at the usawkf nat. champ. in san diego this past nov. It was the eagle part of the animals form, truely awsome.

[sanchezero]

The wind and fire wheels are a very new weapon. Actually developed in america. The versions you see in the photos posted are highly abstracted from their original function- hubcaps.

They were developed by inner city youth to protect themselves from bandits intent on stealing the hubcaps from them without having to get all dirty or accept the risk of removing them from a vehicle.

Chan Pui of Wah Lum fame actually learned the hubcaps, uh I mean, wind and fire wheels, from his student Tracy Fleming who ran with a bad crowd in Richmond VA as a kid. It was CP's idea to stylize them so that they'd be accepted by other wushu practitioners.

I don't know anything about the deer knife.

;)

[norther practitioner]

wind and fire wheel are seen in taiji chuan

[JWTAYLOR]

Really, which kind?

JWT

[Ky-Fi]

I've got Dr. Steve Sun's book Tai Chi Wind and Fire Wheels. He says the weapon has been taught for a number of generations in his family, but I think he said the original forms have been lost. I believe for the form in his book he just adapted the weapons to his version of the Yang tai chi long form. I think his applications in the book look pretty logical. I know it's usually impossible to learn much solely from a book, but this weapon form is so close to the barehand form I've been very tempted to get a pair of these and try it.
I don't have the book, but I think Dr.Yang mentions this category of weapon in his book Ancient Chinese Weapons, as part of the wheel/ring category. I think there were lot's of different designs of "wheels" regarding the "flames" or lack thereof. I seem to remember reading that these weapons were never widely popular because they were difficult to conceal and get to quickly.

[Budokan]

Are there forms for these wind and fire wheels? Even though they do appear impractical, they look cool.

[wufupaul]

Deer Horn knives are used in Bagua, wind and fire wheels are used in some(maybe only 1 that I've seen) branches of Yang style. I've seen several people perform forms with wind and fire wheels, Dr. Sun being the most well known person who teaches them.

[red_fists]

For learning the Forms and get hold of Weapons go here:

http://www.superiormartialarts.com/catalog/uniform/firewheels.htm

I actually got mine on order. :D

When I asked at the Importer in Durban in the 90's he actually told me that nobody has asked for those Weapons in 20+ years.

Not a very well known weapon, to be honest doubt it's usefullness as such.

But something I always wanted to play around with.

I love unusual weapons.

[Leimeng]

Wind and Fire Wheels are found in many systems of Chinese arts. Shaolin, TaiChi, BaGua, Hsing-I, etc. They would be considered an advanced weapon by any but the most jaded and egotistical practicioner. One of the immediate benefits of the weapon is the incredible level of body awareness that develops. Every edge and point except for the handle is sharped (unless you dont sharpen them.) The insides as well. when they are moved in a basic whirling motion you have what amounts to a human vegematic or food processor created. The momentum created by this movement can be very strong and unless you have EXCEPTIONAL body skills and awareness, you will receive multiple lacerations and punctures.
If perchance you can get the two of them over persons head, a quick powerful fa-jing will decapitate someone. Slightly less lethal would be to catch a person arm or leg in one or two of them. This would also render an opponent with one less limb to attack you with. For all practical purposes a fight would end at that point. Of course, one would not walk down the street with a pair of these looking for a fight or an opportunity to use it. But that would be a classical way of using the.
Additionally, as every practicioner worth his/her sale should know, weapon movements have tremendous amounts of carryover techniques and affects going into empty hand. If you dont get this from your instructor, find another one, or work harder.
The body control aspect of the weapon is a good enough reason to practice it.
Lately, very few people practice it or learn it because of the skill a person should have developed before attempting it. Due to the fact that most people are unwilling to put that level of effort into their other training. They dont have the mechanics necessary for such an endeavour. I think if a person has the dedication and time for such a thing though, it is well worth the effort to try to learn.
Hope that helps some.

Sinloi

yi beng, kan xue