I suck

[IronFist]

I dunno what to do. For the last 4 years I've been torn between weightlifting and MA. I've never been able to pick just one. Being good at MA is important to me, but being strong is very important to me as well.

What's that Chinese (I think) proverb about if you try to master two things at once you will master nothing (or something like that)? That's me. I'm not very strong in weight lifting (well, maybe for my weight, I've made awesome progress I was just weak to start with, hehe, ectomorph) and I'm not very good at MA. Wtf?

And I always go "dude I should start training hardcore MA starting TODAY" and then I get all ready and then I think "fuxor, if my bench and squat go down I'll be pìssed as heck."

So, I've always tried to come up with some half assed attempt at doing some MA after my weight lifting, but I'm always afraid to go all out because I wouldn't want to not be at 100% for my weights tomorrow...

...and for that same reason I can't do MA training before I lift. Ever try to bench press after throwing x-hundred punches? Exactly. Not to mention the fact that stances and squatting don't get along :)

Hmm, another choice might be to alternate... do a cycle of weightlifting, and then a cycle of MA. a) that would drive me nuts. b) my ectomorphic metabolism would surely not tolerate a 2 week layoff between lifting cycles. It would go "mmm... muscles... chomp chomp chomp." Oh yeah, the 2 week thing comes from Pavel style PTP lifting cycles (don't worry if you don't know what that means :D ).

Boooooo!!! I suck.

You know what? It was so much easier in highschool before I knew stuff about anatomy and lifting and nutrition and recovery. Every day was the same. Do MA. Do Stone Warrior. Done. And I used to wonder why I plateaued...

I suck :)

IronFist

[Merryprankster]

Try doing the big three once a week.


My gf has made good gains... slow, but good. It was working for me pretty well before I blew my back out :)

[prana]

yat kiok dhap liong shuen
translates to "one leg stepping into two boats" in cantonese...

[red_fists]

IronFist.

You can do both, but you must expect a progress of 2.5 times the time it would take just to do one.

Also work those things on alternating days, it helps a lot.

Think of a 6 day week with 1 day for rest.
3 Days weigths
3 Days CMA.

Don't skip the rest day, as training without a rest day will slow your progress down even more.
Light work, stretching some short jogging is ok.

Remember the old story.

About the guy asking his Master how long it will take to learn the style, the more the student talked about training hard the longer the time period quoted by the master got.

So take it easy, do both on alternating days and don't try to force success.

I have found often that young people try to force progress and thus it takes longer to learn most things.

MA takes both physical and mental/rest time to become absorbed.
Problem is that the Body cannot work physically and absorb mentally at the same time.

So rather than do 1000 Kicks do 500 Kicks and than relax for the time it would take to do the 2nd 500 kicks.
Just some advise from an old ****.

P.S.: I learned this during my Computer Programming Course, 3 month after I left a HEAVY course I finally understood what I had learnt.

:D :D

[Ray Pina]

O worry about dividing my focus sometimes. As a martial artist I have one goal: to be the best.

I know that is lofty, but why settle for anythging else. I believe in shoot for the moon and if you miss you'll at least be among the stars. I believe my sifu can take me there.

But I also wanted to be a published author, have my books respected.

At the same time, I LOVE to surf. Its what keep the kid in my heart.

I stopped worrying about it. I train when there is no surf and on the east coast that is quite often aside from hurricanes and north easters. In the summer I'll squable for smaller surf just to get wet. But I train everyday. And writing, it just come sout when it has to come out.

I no longer view it as splitting myself in three. Rather, I am a martial artist who surfs and writes. I'm just being myself, the best way that I can.

[KC Elbows]

I have the same difficulty. Between MA, writing, and music, it has always been a struggle. However, you might want to keep in mind that individuals like Musashi, Descartes, etc. certainly overcame the difficulties in mastering more than one skill.

I have started to schedule myself so that I am always working at my three passions. This week, music is the main focus, while MA and writing I am working on, but to a lesser extent. Next week, writing will be the focus, and the next week, MA, but it will be month of heavy MA, really trying to learn new things, etc.

Its the slow route, but that's OK.

[NPMantis]

Dear IronFist,

I don't think you have to give up one completely as others have suggested but you definately have to focus on one or the other.

I don't know how many days a week you train but ideally I would train 3 days a week. 2 days of martial arts and 1 day of weight lifting. You can do both, though as you say you can't master both.

Only you know what you are capable of, try out what feels right for a while and see how it goes and if you feel one if lacking then readjust your plans.

I know exactly how you feel, I haven't been lifting for probably 2 months as I just haven't had the time, but I know when I go back, I will be able to lift the same because strength is not something so easily lost, and my sifu pushes our strength training very far in the class as well as fitness!

Let us all know how it goes?

Take care mate,

Mantis

[Arhat of Fury]

Ironfist,
I have heard a similiar proverb written
"If you chase 2 rabbits, they both will get away" however in this instance I think we should look at it like- Chase one rabbit for 3 days and the other rabbit for 3 days and take one days rest.

I to have been torn between weightlifting and MA. I am a weightlifting fiend, but I love the body control and agility I get from MA. I have finally found my groove after a couple of years of training MA. I train Mon, Weds, Fri and lift Tues, thurs and Sat, Sunday I rest. I have realized that because the intensity of training that my sifu engages us in, that gaining weight will be really hard if not impossible so I still lift to be big and powerful and take my proteins. Its kinda cool to be able to walk in the Gym at 180LBS and lift more than the big boys 200+LBS. Anyway I'm starting to ramble, back to your question.

If you havent tried basically what evolution fist has stated ,give it a try. Its all about troubleshooting until you find your groove.

And remeber blance..........balance(insert Pat Morita voice)

Amitoufu,

AOF

[Paul]

what's so hard?
I lift weights 4 days a week, on 3 of those days I also go to my MA class. I've also just started swimming laps again a couple of times a week for aerobic conditioning.

I always try to make sure that I take at least one day a week off from training.

haven't seen any ill effects yet, other than being hungry ALL the time and eating a lot more food.

[Prairie]

Sometimes one has to exclude an activity in order to excel at another. I don't believe this necessarily to be the case in your scenario. Weight training and martial arts can be complimentary. However, if you want to be a competition level bodybuilder then you may want to focus on the weights (or whatever bodybuilders do - I don't know). If you want to excel at martial arts then focus on martial arts and apply weight training in complimentary fashion. What's the goal specifically and generally?

[jointlock]

Hello IronFist. I agree with what Prairie said. Do you want to be the guy with the biggest muscles, or the guy who can kick the most ass?
Since you said "but being strong is important as well" it looks like you want to be the guy who can kick the most ass. Had you said something like "Competitive bodybuilding is important..." I would think otherwise but you said "strength" so you must understand that strength is good, but there is a point in muscle size where it(the size) becomes a liability because at that point you begin to become less flexible and slower. Bruce Lee was careful not to let certain muscles develop too much because they would have impeded his flexibily and speed. If you are a fighter/martial artist your body is a fine tuned piece of high performance machinery, specificly optimized for the purpose of kicking ass. You may not be able to win a bodybuilding competition, but you could probably beat up all the guys who can.
Once you have decided what you want to do, then you know how to train. There is your natural size limit, then there is your optimum configfuration. Sculpt your body so that it's shape reflects your optimum configuration. And then make sure you are as strong as possible given that size. From there on out work to maintain that. If you have to lift weights 3 days a week to maintain do that, so be it. Then you can focus on your MA training and that will become the area of training that you look forward to most.

[Ford Prefect]

I train both at the same time and have always progressed steadily. I do weights in the morning and MA at night. The MA even serves as a kind of active restoration for me. Just keep it consistent, keep your diet healthy, and you should avoid over-training.

[SevenStar]

I do both also, and have always had a steady progression - except for when I did that damm push up program which for some odd reason made my bench drop. The important thing when doing both is to be weary of overtraining.

[CD Lee]

I used to bodybuild for years. After peaking out, I realized how much time went into that, and what I got out of it. I was able to finally realize the input was way more than the output. I reduced my weights to all bodyparts to one day from five, faster, less rest between sets, and more rest days. I eventually quit lifting, but I have reatained at least 80% muscle and build without lifting for 10 years. Can still lift too, just don't have a lot of time.

Here are my thoughts. Red Fists idea is good for you. But also, remember this. You said you are an Ectomorph. Hey, you aint going to build a huge amount of muscle size. Your strength is ok, but what the heck do you need it for. Do you need superhuman strenth? Get what you need, and take it easy and enjoy other things you like to do.

If you like MA, then rebalance. You are an ectomorph. You might kick-@ss at distance running. You can probably kick-@ass at martial arts as an Ecto. Do yourself a favor. Try this. My brother was a bodybuilder too. Try not looking in a mirror for one month at your body, but just train anyway. It will do your mind a lot of good.

[IronFist]

For the guys who don't know, I'm not into BB'ing anymore. For the last year or so I've been powerlifting and focusing on functional strength.

My metabolism is too fast to be a bodybuilder :) even at 5-6000 calories a day. That and a number of other reasons caused me to quit, and i'm pretty glad i did :)

Iron

[omegapoint]

IronFist: Train hard but don't strain. You need, at minimum, a day for your muscles to recuperate and make steady gains. 48 hours is ideal. I, too, am an Ectomorph. I joined the USAF at 5'11" - 6 ft. and 147 lbs. (I could bench at least 245 though)! That was when I was relying on MAs training to maximize my physical potential. Without Hojo Undo (Supplemental Training) most striking arts won't allow for a large increase in muscle mass. After basic I gained 20 pounds and now about 7 years later I weigh 185 (with weightlifting added to my regimen) . I think that that is a good weight for a person with small bones and an expeditious metabolism. My bro has a very fast metabolism, but due to a larger frame, he weighs 230+ (and he's full-splits flexible). Playing college ball helped him, for sure. He swears by protein supplementation (sans Creatine), and I have begun to drink a good Whey shake everyday now. In 4 months I went from 178 to 185. Maybe you can train moderately and use nutrient supplements to facilitate faster muscle growth? Work out after you train MAs and watch your stamina, strength and flexibilty increase.

Later and happy training...

[Ford Prefect]

Hey Iron,

I'm as ectomorph as they come as well. My friends were always amazed at how much I ate and how I never gained any weight. Just 3 years ago, I was 6' 142 lbs. A combination of weights and maturing got me up to about 155 less than a year ago. I was a strict PTP'er and was very excited about my strength gains and of course my anatomy chart physique. Heh. ;) Anyway, I hear of this powerlifting club called Westside Barbell, and I start reading up on them. Turns out, they use a method of lifting that combines maximal strength work with speed and hypertrophy work. I figure I'd give it a try with a change in my diet. (drink an MRP right after I workout, occasionally between lunch/dinner, and one when I go to sleep) What do you know? 6 months later I'm much stronger than I was before and I weigh around 185 lbs. My cardio and MA practice was enough to still keep me very lean (around 6% BF), so I still have all my cuts. ;) I know I've pumped this training before, but I think you'd really like the gains you get from it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

you don't suck iron. i've been facing this same dillema for a couple months now (though i have never been as into lifting as you are). i go through fits on either side. ill lift religiously for a week or two, but not train with the intensity i usually do. then i'll train like a mother fu cker but miss some lifting days here and there.

i think what he's saying is that he doesnt want to be 35 and a half a$$ed martial artist and weight lifter. we'd like to be great at both after close to 15 years, but it just doesn't seem likely. so does anyone think it's possible to excell at both, or do you just have to pick one to master and do the other on the side?

[CD Lee]

Gunned Down:

First, I don't understand why everybody thinks they cannot do both well. In Weight lifting, what is successful? You guessed it. Whatever the hell it is you are trying to do. I would say 90% of young people have totally unrealistic expectaions of what they could EVER accomplish in weight training based on genetics. I have seen it all. If you are stronger and feel good and are healthy for it, then I think you are very successful.

Wieghts are like any other sport. At what level do you think you have to get to be a success? Is it a certain strength, or look? Strength based on relative body weight, short or tall structure? There are a thousand ways to look at it. Then whatever you pick, you have to be genetically predisposed to get there. So most of us cannot be champion bodybuilders or power lifters. But we can get great benefit never the less from training.

I can't help but smile reading some of you guys problems with weight gain. I peaked at 5'9, 162 lbs. I ate 5000-6000 calories a day every day. I tried every single training method there was at the time. Then I slowed down. It took me 8 years to go from 162 to 170 lbs. Then 9 months to get to 215. No it was not weight training. It is called metabolism. I can lift and gain muscle much easier now. Your metabolism will change trust me. If it does not, you should be very thankful!

[Sharky]

Is NO ONE going to make a "sucking" joke? Do i have to do *everything* around here?

[IronFist]

Train hard but don't strain. You need, at minimum, a day for your muscles to recuperate and make steady gains. 48 hours is ideal.

For hypertrophy, yes, for maximal strength gains, no. I DL (or squat) and bench 5 days per week and have been making good gains. However, it's only 2 sets of 5 reps per day. If you aren't familiar with that kind of training you will cringe "holy schit! You can't squat and bench 5 days per week! You'll overtrain!!!"

Hehehe :)

48 hours is ideal. I, too, am an Ectomorph. I joined the USAF at 5'11" - 6 ft. and 147 lbs. (I could bench at least 245 though)!

245 is impressive for 147lbs. Was that a 1RM or for reps?

Iron

[tsunami surfer]

Iron fist you do not suck! I lift 3 to 5 times a week, run 8 to 10 miles a week(not all at once) and MA 2 to 3 times aweek and shoot 200 to 300 rounds (bullets) every other week. You just got to listen to your body. Divide your workouts so that the same muscle groups arent worked everyday. REST when you are tired not just on the prescribed rest day. Sometimes I will take a whole week of and do nothing but read and study and I usualy come back stronger. Never Quit because someone is always training harder than you.

[Sharky]

HELLO?!?!!??!!?

[Ish]

Is it just me being thick or does anyone else not know what an ectomorph is.

[Merryprankster]

You know those super skinny guys with narrow shoulders and hips that can eat ANYTHING and have cuts and muscle separation even though they just sit around and drink beer? That's an ectomorph :)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Iron fist you do not suck"

yeah but if he ever decides to i want to be first in line. long as it doesn't make sevenstar too jealous.

there ya go sharky.

[Sharky]

hoo-fu.cking-rah

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

yeah . . i know it wasn't funny but at least i tried for ya.