For all of you Leather Necks

[JWTAYLOR]

I got this email sent to me from a friend. I thought you might appreciate it.

Original Message as Follows:

From: "Weber BGen Joseph F" <WeberJF@29palms.usmc.mil>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 6:56 PM
Subject: FW: Marines...I Got This from a Friend

The following is an excerpt from an email home from an Air Force ordnance demolition unit team member describing his first night at Kandahar airport:
"One of the perimeter positions only a hundred yards or
so to our left took some incoming fire and we all went
to general quarters, taking defensive fighting positions
in our bivouac in case they penetrated to our position.
The Marines quickly repelled the attack. It will not
bother me should I live my entire life without having to
kill a man but I have to say I'm glad to be surrounded
by a thousand 19 year-old Marines who can't wait to.
They will be leaving in a few weeks and turning over the
base to the Army. I will miss them.

"The only tents the Marines use are one-man pup tents and they are everywhere. Each foxhole and DFP (defensive fighting position) around the camp is accompanied by two of these humble little tents.
"I have a renewed respect for the Marines. They arrived
a month ago, dug in, and have been living out of these
ridiculously small, 5 x 5 tents ever since. No heat, no
latrines, no showers, nothing but backpacks, weapons,
helmets and flak vests, and lots of ammo. And they've
been doing it every day. Four man teams at each
position, two sleeping, two on watch. God bless them
every one."

JWT

[red5angel]

hooaaa man, I got similar comment from a guy in the Air Force in Doha Kuwait. Guy said he felt bad that we slept in our tents and on the ground while he slept in a hotel, but he said hewouldnt have anyone else between himself and the enemy then a few marines!

[Chang Style Novice]

"No heat, no
latrines, no showers,"

This sounds like an excellent way to start up an infectious epidemic. Marines aren't so tough when they're suffering from cholera. There's got to be a relatively sanitary middle ground here.

[GreyMystik]

it has been my experience that relativity and sanitary conditions are not the priority of the military, including (maybe especially?) in the USMC

[ewallace]

If the Corps wanted you to have sanitary conditions they would assign them to you!

[jaz1069]

When I was in Sirsink, Iraq during the Gulf war we stayed in these huge tents. Enough to where 15 - 20 guys could comfortably store gear and live.

They were airforce tents and wired for airconditioning. Big fabric shoots filtered the air which was sent in from a compressor.

The airforce guys all had crispy cool tent througout the day while we sweltered. Our C.O. asked to airforce to hook us up with a.c. They refused saying it was not their jobs to make the Marines comfortable...

So...

We reconed their tent one sunny afternoon and moved everything, (cots, gear, etc) into the fenced up mine field. Then spent the afternoon watching them retrieve their gear.

I miss the Corps.

Semper Fi,

John

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm just saying it's in the USMC's (and the USA's) best interest to have healthy, well rested personell on the front lines. Sure, sometimes it's going to be impractical, but if you can do it, shouldn't you?

[qeySuS]

Sounds like a spartan life, and Spartans are cool :)

[African Tiger]

How could you guys leave me outta this one?!?!?

Chang Style - put it this way, stuff like that is the reason why the Marine Corps is so selective about who they take, and who they retain.

Most people would drop dead under such harsh conditions. Other military men (excluding SEALS) would panic or start whinning. We take conditions like that and beg for more - if for no other reason, it's part of the job.

Would you want your plumber to complain about getting wet while working? How about your garbage man complaining about the stench?

It's too expensive and resource intensive to maintain hot showers, so we make do with whatever water we can find, and
heat it up when possible. Latrines are dug when possible, if not, "see that 1/2 of an oil drum over there...?"

Rest assured, no one has in recent memory (and that goes back to my enlistment in 1987, and serving in Desert Storm under conditions similar to those in Afganistan) come down with Cholera, Hepatitis, EColi, or any other bacterial or viral infection while serving and living aboard any Marine Corps "hell hole".

Guys usually get sick from eating local foods, which are not approved by the squid doctors - I guess those guys really are good for something, eh? :D

[tnwingtsun]

"Marines aren't so tough when they're suffering from cholera."



Marines(Navel Infantry) get(the last time I checked) two rounds of cholera shots before going overseas,ANYBODY who has served knows what a
b!tch it is when you loose your shot record.

Army Paratroopers only require one cholera shot because thats all we need!!!

HOOOAHH!!!!!!!


"I'm just saying it's in the USMC's (and the USA's) best interest to have healthy, well rested personell on the front lines. Sure, sometimes it's going to be impractical, but if you can do it, shouldn't you?"


I'm gonna to be a walking pair of eyeballs and ears in a hot AO!!
Leave the easy living to the squids,REMFs and the Air Farice!!
Chang,what you're describing is a prescription of dullness which
can lead to a new flag for wifey-poo or mommy!!


African Tiger and other Marines,I'm dogging my dad more than ya'll,he was a PI DI(66-67),1/9 Marines 68-69.

RUCK UP JOE!!

[Chang Style Novice]

Gimme a little credit, y'all. When did I say that there should be room service and a mint on the pillow of every soldier without exception? Here's a hint - I didn't.

I mean, I like to go camping for fun, you know? I figure war is probably going to be harder than a week in a National Park.

All I said was - and let me quote myself here - "...it's in the USMC's (and the USA's) best interest to have healthy, well rested personell on the front lines."

Are you saying exhausted, undernourished soldiers fight harder, better, smarter than healthy well rested ones? Betcha they don't. Suffer for fun, that's fine. Knock yourself out. But if my country and freedom are at stake, I want those fighting for it in peak shape. Sleep deprivation doesn't help with that - although I admit that's not a qualified medical opinion I doubt anyone with a lick of common sense is going to disagree.

And I also said "sometimes it's going to be impractical, but if you can do it, shouldn't you?" So I know that some things just can't be done. Ready and willing to endure tough conditions is good and desirable. Ready and willing to throw away health and equinamity when it need not be sacrificed for stragic gain - what's the benefit of that?

[tnwingtsun]

"Are you saying exhausted, undernourished soldiers fight harder, better, smarter than healthy well rested ones?"


Nope,thats not what I am saying.


I'm trying to say,the more ya bleed in training,the less ya bleed in combat.


You have to have gone through the training to endure being " exhausted", "undernourished","exhausted" and"Sleep deprivation".

Thoses are the easy ones.

"I want those fighting for it in peak shape."

Ya got to crack some eggs ta make an omlet.

"Suffer for fun, that's fine. Knock yourself out."

There are the doers and the lookers.

"Ready and willing to endure tough conditions is good and desirable."

You really DON'T want me to expand on that.

"Ready and willing to throw away health and equinamity when it need not be sacrificed for stragic gain - what's the benefit of that?"

I speak for myself and others,our aim is NOT to "throw away health and equinamity"

That is the enemy's job.

I'll give credit where credit is due Chang and I'm not trying to twist what you're saying,comfort is a good thing at home,in a combat zone too much comfort can lead too complacency and that my young fellow KFO member is not a good thing.

A little word on common sense,lets pretend we're in the same hole together,you crave your comfort to the point where you slack and go soft on me you would be una$$ed from my hole most-rickie-tic-tic.

"But if my country and freedom are at stake"

NO,if my a$$ and buddies are at stake because someone can't(or won't) hang then we got problems!!

Nothing personal,thats just the way it is.

Thus endeth the sermon.

Good night.:)

[African Tiger]

Doesn't cholera occur where people eat near their bathroom facilities, and fail to wash their hands adequately? Neither of which occur in any combat situation, no matter how spartan the facilities might be.

What's a cholera shot? :D We got a flu shot, and Tetanus, and something else which made me crap chocolate pudding for a week. Then I became invincible... :cool:

OOOOORAH!


1st MEF, 1st MarDiv Operations Desert Shield/Storm and Wind -
Al-Quarrah, Saudia Arabia; Wafra, Kuwait.

[guohuen]

Hey, a little halazone, a little tabasco, a little garlic oil, and your golden, just like hollywood. Besides isn't bug juice and camo just like dit da jow?:D

[Chang Style Novice]

It sounds like we're pretty close to understanding one another's meanings here, so I expect this will be the last thing I have to say on the subject.

This fuss all started when I read "No heat, no latrines, no showers," and mistakenly conflated it into "trapped wallowing in your own filth." This naturally got me worried about the health and readiness of combat troops, which has been my only concern on this thread, right from the beginning. As African Tiger has pointed out, cholera (among other nasty diseases) thrives under unsanitary conditions - I think it's an intestinal parasite thing, not bacterial, so the innoculation comment had me confused.

Once again, I'm not so dumb that I want fighting men to be weak soft and lazy, nor am I so dumb that I think you get to be strong hard and industrious without lots of work and a healthy dose of deprivation. Combat is tough nasty work, so to train for it things have to get tough and nasty. I still maintain that keeping forces in fighting fit doesn't neccesarily mean making everything harder than it has to be. If I was a Taliban holed up in a mountain cave, I'd be hoping like hell that the US troops coming for me weren't any better fed, better rested, or better equipped than myself. Who can deny that to stay strong you've got to get proper food, sleep, and medical attention? If you're going to fight someone in a life or death battle, wouldn't you like them to be starving, tired and sick? That's what keeping fresh troops on the front lines and cutting the enemy's supply chains is all about, right?

And oh, yeah - I wish I was your "Young" kfo friend. I'll have to be satisfied with just being your KFO friend, sadly.

[JWTAYLOR]

Just for fun, Cholera information.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/diseaseinfo/cholera_g.htm

My wife, who is an Epidemiologist, thinks Cholera is pretty awesome. Innoculations continue to prove short lived and problematic. Crazy b!tch gets wild when you talk about Enfluenza.

JWT

[red5angel]

Hey Chang style, no worries man, they take pretty good care of us when they can, we have to make do when we need to. Those guys get rotated and fed well. the only thing you need to worry about is how bored they get, thats when stuff really starts going to hell!

[Leonidas]

i dont know much about the military but why does the Air Force get "special" treatment . Hotel rooms during a war, huge tents with AC? I'd expect that from prissy actors but not a branch of the military. No disrespect to AF pilots, I respect everyone in the military, but whats with that. Is it for a reason.

[red5angel]

instead of prissy actors thier prissy soldiers ;)

not sure really, they spend more of thier budget on R&D and personnel then any other branch.

[Leonidas]

Governments probably more worried about thier million dollar planes than the pilots. I guess you could say if the pilot is not 100% it's hard to mantain control of something going Mach 4. Who knows. I guess thats what the Military rivalry is about. Some jokes about the AF are pretty harsh, but funny as hell though. :D :p

[red5angel]

Air force is alright, they just got cushy jobs!

Actually in defense of our country (no pun intended) they do a pretty good job of protecting our crews, better then most. Our machines are built retty durable but you have to be realistic too. Cant make a machine that 100% protects the crew and oes its job too.

[tnwingtsun]

"And oh, yeah - I wish I was your "Young" kfo friend. I'll have to be satisfied with just being your KFO friend, sadly"

:D

[rogue]

OK, just an estimate, but what's the oldest MRE you've ever eaten?

[jaz1069]

The oldest...I'm not sure.
But the best by far are the British MRE's.

I'd trade to get their beef stew and let it sit out in it's bag on a hot rock in the sun for an hour or so, it was fantastic!

Also, their meals came with wind and waterproof matches. When I say water proof I mean you could lite one, drop it into your canteen cup and it would stay lit as it floated to the bottom!

[Leimeng]

~I remember about 12 years ago I was deployed with my Air Force CE unit to an undisclosed location in some third-world malaria infested paradise. After everyone got over their obligatory first week of hershey squirts we all decided to have a few drinks a the local hootch. There we saw the inspiring bravery of the off duty marines who were at that location to guard the facility. These fine young men were trying to show how to do a charge into the enemy. They would take a drink and then run as fast as they could HEAD FIRST into the wall trying to knock a hole in the wall, or knock themselves out!
~While I must admire such courage (equally usefull during and IRS audit), I think back on such times with a sigh of relief that I actually let the Air Force recruiter talk me out of joining the marines!

Peace

Sin Loi

yi beng kan xue

[tnwingtsun]

Geeze........


Anybody here remember the "John Waynes" in the "C-RATS"





MREs




LOL!!

[guohuen]

Yep, and the peanut butter mixed with insect repellant made pretty good fuel to heat C rats. C4 made pretty good fuel but you didn't want to step on it to put it out:D and somehow I always got stuck with the Pall Malls. I saw grown men accually cry when they got the ham and lima beans C rats:D We called them ham and m----- f------.:D

[African Tiger]

Where the hell did you guys serve? We always had brand new, or no more than 3-4 year old MREs.

They still tasted like crap, no matter what you got. Hence, we gave them new names: Meals Ready to Excrete, Meals Ready to Explode, etc.

Hey! Who out there knows what USMC really means?

My favorites:
U Signed the Mother'fing Contract
Unorganized S-hit and Mass Confusion
and during Desert Storm - U Suckers Missed Christmas

[jaz1069]

Uncle
Sam's
Misguided
Children

Should we start talking about W.M.'s now?:D

Weekend Mattress

Waste of Money

I loved Okinawa!

John