What the.........

[Shaolindynasty]

www.oomyungdoe.com This is a Chung Mo Do website, the famous cult of the martial arts world.

Not so interesting by its self but i guess there are people who still beleive this crap check out Royal Dragon's message board www.royaldragon.4dw.com

He has CMD supporters come to his board and post tuff from their "blue book" which is the bible of CMD. What nuts:rolleyes:

Not really a point to this post I just find it funny people fall for this. I mean the leader says he did a flying sidekick off a 7 story building:D

[JasBourne]

wish he'd take a flying **** ... uh, never mind. :D

[Shaolindynasty]

What gets me most is that the only impression I get from the site is that they are a Mcdojo. But some of the stories I heard about these guys....:eek:

[Colin]

I didn't realise that there are people out there that actually do this sort of sh!te.

I read a few of the pages but couldn't carry on coz of the tears in my eyes!

Yep...Grand Master Kim "Iron Arse" Styley man, did a flying side kick off an 11 (eleven) storey building.
Now to give him his fair dues, this is of course possible, but there is no mention of what happened when he hit the ground!

I assume he used the "Iron Arse" chi gung training to soften his fall.

I'm sorry but I can't write any more on this......

C....

[SevenStar]

I know of a few CMD guys that are going to get their butts kicked in a challenge match real soon

[Colin]

But my butt is quite safe, as I have been practicing the secret "hoo flung dung" explosive arse techniques.

C........

[CD Lee]

No man, you are all wrong, this guy is real.

Just listen to this. Grandmaster"Iron" Kim once stacked 12 roof tiles together. On top, he placed a piece of Tofu (soft bean curd, similar in substance to soft butter). He then proceeded to smash his blow onto the tofu, shattering all 12 roof tiles, and yet, not damaging the tofu!!! Incredible!

Also, he lined up 50 people, all leaning slightly forward, and smacked the first person, and the whole pile... :D :D :D...it is difficult to go on, but all 50 people fell down!

But NO, it gets better! The same 50 people, crammed together. In a display of rare control and power, he struck the first person in the stack, and made the 15th person collapse to the ground, yet all 49 others were unharmed and still standing!

This and more can be found on his website. Nice pictures too.

BTW, he did the side kick off of 8 story tall building AND LARGER.

[CD Lee]

I could not resist. Guess who the founder of the system is according to the web site? Some guy named "Bag-wa" from East Asia.

[SaMantis]

"The History of True Moo Doe Grandmasters"

"As our research continues and details regarding the history of traditional Moo Doe knowledge and Grandmaster "Iron" Kim are clarified, more will be released through this website and written material."

But they don't list a single name! Not even Mr. Bag-wa!

Guess it's getting harder to make up a lineage from scratch ... :rolleyes:

[CD Lee]

I swear this sh1t is downright FUNNY! Pay particular attention to the names used...it is almost comical.

A quote about the history of Chung Moo Doe:



Today, the Oom Yung Doe / Chung Moo Doe style of Moo Doe (martial arts) is taught in the United States and throughout the world by it's founder, Grandmaster "Iron" Kim. It encompasses all the form and movement of the Oom Yung Doe line of Traditional Moo Doe taught over the centuries since the time of the first generation Grandmaster "Bag-wa". The seventh generation Grandmaster, Wang Po, taught the Oom Yung line of Moo Doe under the given name of Yin Yang Doe. Other styles of East Asian Moo Doe were incorporated into the original Oom Yung / Chung Moo line. Today about twenty percent of the Oom Yung Doe / Chung Moo Doe style is derived from other styles of East Asian martial arts and has come to be known as "Eight Martial Arts taught as One" or "All Martial Arts United."


Ying Yang Doe? You have GOT to be kidding!

Does any of this sounds like a Saturday Night Live spoof of Bagua? Here is the all new Eight Palm Bagua using Ying and Yang as internal principles? Of course founded by Grandmaster Bag-wa. Crazy.

People are going to pay for this you know...

[jesper]

"Also, he lined up 50 people, all leaning slightly forward, and smacked the first person, and the whole pile... ...it is difficult to go on, but all 50 people fell down!"

Not that difficult to do really. It has nothing to do with mystiscime (spelling) or power, but is all about manipulation. Seen it done with around 20 persons.

The rest is bull though, or tricks like the above :)

[Kaitain(UK)]

he's a fast chef though:

"Using Nae Gong and Wae Gong combined, Grandmaster "Iron" Kim sliced an apple into 4 pieces with a sword while the apple was in midair. Tremendous speed and timing are required to hit the exact point of the apple that is necessary to accomplish this movement. Only a few people this century have been capable of achieving this feat. "

I reckon he has a future in porno as well:

"The use of extraordinary Nae Gong energy to miraculously change the size of different parts of his body at will. Only a few people around the world are known to be capable of this feat. "

[Kaitain(UK)]

and for the less humurous side:
http://dreamwater.net/biz/royaldragon/wwwboard/938.html

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I know of a few CMD guys that are going to get their butts kicked in a challenge match real soon

LOL!!!

[old jong]

Kicked to high again!...Missed the guy by 45 feet!...CHIT! (http://www.oomyungdoe.com/graphics/kyonggongsulbope.gif) :mad:

[KC Elbows]

Yeah, the stuff is crazy. What's sad is that the guys who took the fall for Kim in the IRS case got left out to dry by the association, students were told those guys were the problem, they misbehaved, while John C. Kim worship continued as normal. One of those guys was the best fighter they had, and his life was pretty much ruined by the misuse of his loyalty. Lost his family while he was in prison, discredited by the person he had unquestioning faith in. From what I heard, all he wants to do is get on with his life and put the chung moo thing behind him.

Some of the others who took the fall are apparently moving to discredit the association in some way, though what action they plan to undertake seems unclear at this time. In the link that kaitain posted, I believe there are some letters that serve as real eye openers, especially one from a wife of one of the more influential ex-instructors to John C. Kim's wife concerning some really bizarre sexual misconduct.

[Shaolindynasty]

What's bizzare to me is the fact that people still go for this crap. If my Sifu would have said to me "leave your family, move in with other students, work and give me all your belongings, let me have sex with your wife, let me beat you and insult you, worship me as a god. In exchange you can come to class next week" I would have kicked his @$$ (somehow). I mean c'mon there is way to much MA info out now to beleive this stuff.

I mean is martial "secrets" of any kind worth any of the above? I don't think so, especially since there are no secrets.

What's also messed up is that people who get out of this place have a hard time either not going back the CMD cult type thinking of martial arts or they try so hard to do the oppisite of what they learned to "show them who's boss". It's all really weird.

[red5angel]

I just sat and read that whole page!!!!!! That guy is a freak!!!! IF I COULD ONLY GET A HOLD OF HIM FOR A FEW MINUTES!!!!!!!

[ewallace]

there was a misprint in the "Wise or Foolish" section. It says there are two paths: Chung Doe and Pa Doe. There are actually three paths. Chung Doe, Pa Doe and No Doe. No Doe is that path that when you come to the end you realize you should have never fell for that silly **** and now you're broke.

[ewallace]

Ralek, have your tapes shown any counters to the mystical flying building side kick? My style does. Usually we practice on clay pigeons.

[KC Elbows]

Shaolin,
They don't upfront tell you to do any of those things, really. It starts more subtle than that, when you miss practice for obligations, they act "dissapointed" in a stern way, if you can't afford lessons, they tell you that you need to focus on your priorities, etc. Also, the amount of pressure they put on is relative to how much pressure they feel they can put on the specific individual.

And yes, it is funky for those who spend a long time there and leave. I still want to beat the crap out of some of them, and I was technically just as bad as them(although I didn't take part in any tax frauds:D )

The reason I left had a lot to do with the accessibility of info nowadays. I started reading about real pa kua, and that was sort of the beginning. Also, when you train people to be unflinchingly adoring to instructors, and then hang those same instructors out to dry, it tends to raise some questions.

[KC Elbows]

ewallace,
Good one. However, to be really chung moo, you'd have to breathe in a way that sounded like "BAAAAAAAAGWAAAAAA".

Once, I had a nasal infection, and that's exactly how I breathed. I was soooo chung moo.

[Shaolindynasty]

KC- I see how subtile it is. Even with the rediculous claims on their site for some reason they don't stand out. Most of that stuff seems as normal as any McDojo. Only when you really look at it and study it do you see the strange claims. It's kind of disturbing to me cause I am friends with someone who is a former member and when I talk to him I can still here allot of mental "programming" they did. Even though he is a cool guy it seems CMD did some damage to his perception of martial art and I bet it was far worse for allot of other people out there. I remeber him saying allot of things that other former members say they programed into them and I don't even think he knows. I tried to explain it to him the other day(since I think he is involved with another "shady" school) and he got pretty angry. Since then I have been trying to find out more about this stuff to see exactly where it's comming from. I tried to keep the tone of this thread light but it's actually pretty serious.

[KC Elbows]

What do you need to know?

My advice is to not try to "adjust" his thinking. After years of chung moo, he might be in the habit of having others adjust it for him, and he may be a little defensive when it happens now, as he is needing to do his own thinking.

One good angle is to plan a day with him, checking out schools, both good and bad. The good thing about this approach is that, from chung moo, he will have plenty of experience laughing at other schools, so its sort of a meeting him halfway approach. You can joke about the really bad schools together. Then, when going to really good schools, you can point out what you like about them, and ask what he thinks.

Also, try watching kung fu demos, really good ones. Sorry, didn't mean to say kung fu. Martial Arts demos. Loan him books about different arts, etc.

Just my .02

[KC Elbows]

BTW, I used to live in the Chicagoland area, and the best counter-programming I experienced was time and a guy by the name of Zhang Hongchao. Good teacher, and about as humble as can be.

[Shaolindynasty]

Well, he has plenty of info on CMA and has visited other schools but I think his ideals about MA are still affected by his time in CMD. He seems really set against having a real Sifu, He prefers to work out "in the park" with people(mostly students of other schools) and learn from video but I feel that he needs a real teacher to go far in the martial arts. He insits that he doesn't cause he "understands MA principles" then he got really upset when I was explaining that he needed a real teacher. I mean I don't consider CMD and a little Kungfu training a martial arts base in which you can build from and I think the reason he doesn't want to join a real school is because of his experience with CMD.

[KC Elbows]

Well, it was a few years between when I quit CMD and started longfist, and I followed almost exactly the path it sounds like your friend is taking. It worked OK for me, because I learned a lot about kung fu in general in that time, so that I was a much more discerning consumer when I went to find my first kung fu school.

However, I'd say keep at him in a non-confrontational way. He might need a little time on his own, but the sooner he gets highly qualified teaching, the better he will be and the less lost time.

Has he sparred? That can be an eye opener.

Also, keep in mind that one thing a few of us ex-cmd'ers did pick up from our time in CMD was a strong passion for martial arts and a strong discipline. Do not base any arguments on invalidating everything he learned, merely show him what more is out there to be had.

My 2 cents are starting to add up.

A little side note. Originally, the chung moo schools were called kong su. Kong Su happens to be another name for tang soo do, a perfectly valid art. I'm fairly certain that there was tang soo do in the curriculum I learned, it just got lost in the endless forms that came from the "higher up" the line.

[sanchezero]

Wouldn't it be great to slip into one of those schools and play the sheep for a while. Just take it to the point where they start to get abusive and then blow up on their a$$es.

It'd be great just to crack their heads in front of their students and then do a lil deprogramming. Course, you'd have to be a guppy for a few months, and that'd be miserable.

[DelicateSound]

I so hate this McDojo sh!te. Gives all MA's a bad name.

Da m n Ashida Kim............. I'd kill him with my bare han.......


.....[looking outside] Is that an Astral Spy.........? HOLY SH..........



.....[sounds of painful and tormented death]........




.....[silence]

[diego]

What do you need to know?

My advice is to not try to "adjust" his thinking. After years of chung moo, he might be in the habit of having others adjust it for him, and he may be a little defensive when it happens now, as he is needing to do his own thinking.

One good angle is to plan a day with him, checking out schools, both good and bad. The good thing about this approach is that, from chung moo, he will have plenty of experience laughing at other schools, so its sort of a meeting him halfway approach. You can joke about the really bad schools together. Then, when going to really good schools, you can point out what you like about them, and ask what he thinks.

Also, try watching kung fu demos, really good ones. Sorry, didn't mean to say kung fu. Martial Arts demos. Loan him books about different arts, etc.

Just my .02"""""""''

it all holds the tone, treat your friend pleasant to set his mind on tommorrow, but be wary as he may go into withdrawel and start stealing your ****.


my buddy just finally kicked that mess, it's all sad

but this made me lol, as it's only martial art

[KC Elbows]

LOL@Diego.:D

That's the problem. The chung moo people are trained not to think its just martial arts. They believe its more important than anything else in their lives, and that, if they live their art right, the rest of their life will magically work out OK.

Send 'em to the Betty Ford.

[Shaolindynasty]

"but this made me lol, as it's only martial art"

That's the funny aspect of it. It's really weird that a MA cult like this could even exsist. I mean c'mon there is no way i'd give up my life savings or let the instructor have sex with my wife etc. for this stuff. I just don't get it. I'd like to play the sheep to but it might turn out like that episode of the simpsons.

na na nana na leader(to the tune of batman tv series theme)


Really how do they hook people like that.

[KC Elbows]

I think you'll find that the real hardcore crazies from chung moo come from the first three groups of instructors. The IRS put a serious limit on how much of the really weird behavior the school could take part in. Funny how federal agents with shotguns can break up a lesson.

At the beginning level, its not much different that any other mckwoon, especially nowadays. I suspect they are going to be a much less prevalent organization over the next few years, and I'm willing to bet that Kim will be prosecuted before too long.

Basically, keep in mind that the horror stories you read are the extreme examples of life at chung moo quan. Most students don't give all their money, their wives don't have to put off sexual advances from Kim, they aren't living with other students, etc. It is at the instructor level that most of the crazy stuff happens, and the ones who gave up the most money were the school owners, who worked endless hours, brought in huge amounts of money, then had to turn it all over to Kim, who would decide whether or not to send any back for the school owners to survive on.

Frankly, there were many times I didn't pay them. Their record keeping was so bad that they often forgot if I had paid or hadn't.

[Stacey]

I heard they charged a butt load. Nothing wrong with that, if your getting the best **** stuff out there, not baaaagwwaaaaaaa.

[anton]

Speak to anyone who was proffessionally trained in brainwashing (KGB, CIA etc..) and they'll tell you the key is to deprive the subject of sleep and gradually make them feel like you control their lives. Eventually they'll hand control of themselves to you. All the techniques used by Kim are classic brainwashing techniques.

BTW: Students were expected to bring extra money on Kim's B'day - said to be April 1st (April Fool's day - how appropriate lol)

[CD Lee]

I did not realize that we had anybody on here that had been hooked by that clan. Sorry to hear that. Not laughing at you. That is just life when we don't have any better experience?

Hey, it is pretty funny **** to us right now because we have perspective and some experience as we all get older. But until that point, how do younger adults know any better? I mean, they fall for all this credit card crap at 20% interest, with skip payment options and stuff like that. That is a severe bend over job by the bankers once you do the math. Most don't find out until they are over-levereaged (cannot pay enought to bite into principal) that they have fallen for a very very bad deal.

It will be a lot harder with the internet in the future to rip people off so unbelieveably with this type MA garbage.

[anton]

http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/chung/chung.asp

[Sharky]

does this mean, for example, that if you kept a girl awake for ages, she'd like, you know, put out?

[Serpent]

Either that, or she'd pass out and then you could do what you liked to her anyway!

[anton]

hmm.. I like your thinking Sharky... :D
try it out and let me know how it works out for you... heck it worked for Kim, seems like he screwed half his instructors' wives :)

[anton]

Originally posted by Serpent
Either that, or she'd pass out and then you could do what you liked to her anyway!

Apparently if you keep spouting non-sensical jibberish like baaagwaaa and moo do, they pass out even quicker

[Stacey]

yes but imagine the kind of man that worships idols. The kind of man that hates Jean Paul Satre who said that man is doomed to be free. A man that hates to make his own decisions.

Now imagine his wife. Iron Kim, must have had an iron willy to preform for the kind of women that end up with men like that.