Finger strikes

[KC Elbows]

Do you believe in using finger strikes?

Vs. soft(areas)?

Vs. Hard(areas)?

[Budokan]

I'm always leery myself about using single finger strikes (aside from the thumb), but multiple digits (spear hand and so forth) seem more appropriate. Less chance of breakage, which is my biggest fear, I guess.

[ewallace]

Spearhanded eye poke - I like it when I'm in very close. I would not use it like a jab. It does not need much power behind it to be effective.

[sanchezero]

I don't think I'd actually use a fingerstrike unless I had someone under control AND had to kill them.

I'm too worried that I'll miss the eye and hit the forehead or some such nonsense. OWWW! SH!T!

I'll stick with palms and punches.

feeling like a sissy, i tuck my tail between my legs

[JWTAYLOR]

Yes, I think finger strikes to soft targets are usefull. However, I think they are very neglected training. People just expect it to work. It's just like any weapon, you've got to train it.

So, work finger strikes full force on a bag and not just in the air. I use Century's BOB and it surprised me how hard it was to confidently trhow a full force finger strikes to it's eyes.

JWT

[Black Jack]

Soft areas.

IMHO the prime target zone for finger strikes are the eyes with a few other secondary places like the mastoid process and temple and if you are talking about grabing techs the throat.

The eye strikes I use are the finger jab, face smash/tiger claw, cobra fangs, thumb strike, and of course the grab and gouge.

The eyes are a great place to strike because no one can condition them up, the trauma that a person can inflict will vary, based on a number of conditions, but the end result is that the attacker will be in distracted so you can get in and follow up with more powerfull weapons.

If your eye strikes are conditioned or you are just lucky the trauma can be much more severe, things like the rupture of the eye bulb will happen if the bulb is no longer able to withstand the direct pressure piercing it, other things would include lacerated eyes or eyelids, no matter what a good shot should produce some temporary blindness, due to an uncontrollable watering of the eye.

[ewallace]

Black Jack brought up a good point about the eyes. I had my cornea scratched in a pillow fight when I was really young. A zipper barely grazed my eye and I couldn't see for days. It was one of the most painful and annoying things I have felt. If you have the smallest growth of fingernail it can be very effective when contact is made with the cornea.

[Water Dragon]

Personally, I don't likefinger strikes. I do like phoenix eyes to the small bones of the face though, so I guess it's a personal preference.

[Black Jack]

WaterDragon,

What is it about finger strikes that you feel uncomfortable about?

Myself, I don't really like the phoniex eye strike, I can see its use if it is conditioned or you nail the right target zone, as you said each to his own.

[NPMantis]

They're great, but you have to have the strength in your fingers or it's pointless. Especially for strikes to throat, eyes and groin. It is very easy to injur yourself though, alternatively to the spear hand you could use the crane beak which would be safer in terms of injuries.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Black Jack

What is it about finger strikes that you feel uncomfortable about?


1. I've never been trained to use them. Therefore, I have more efficient weapons at my disposal (things I have trained)

2. As a result of 1, I've never been taught the conditioning to use my fingers like that

3. The strikes I use lend themselves more to the phoenix eye

** I'm not big on the phoenix eye eitehr, but as a result of how I've been (am being) trained, they work better for me.

[Ka]

I am more into gouging then finger strikes,with that they are intergated into close proxmity work.
As in I have closed the gap ,broken balance,starting to stick and my fists open into fresh grabbing and controll.
Reasons I don't like them,most of the time I have tried them from distance I injury my fingers,once I got my finger caught in a persons gi ( I was using a open hand tech)both of us travelling opposing directions fast.Result =pain.
Yeah I think they are a great technique,just not for me.

[JasBourne]

winchun's 3rd form (final emptyhand form) is about fingerstrikes. Bil Jee (Biu Tze). Eyes, throat, any softspot really. It's taught last so WC'ers don't get lazy and just use eyepoking to get out of trouble. Sometimes we call it the "3 stooges strike"

nyuck, nyuck :D

[Black Jack]

Waterdragon,

Thats a good answer and I can relate.

On the aspect of conditioning finger strikes and how you can get hurt, well I don't know if I really buy into that, it all depends on what finger strike and what target zone.

If its just the eyes the finger jab is more of a flick than a spear, though I have seen people dent house siding with it, yes you could jam a finger if way off center, but that would be the least of my concerns in the overall scheme of things, the face smash/tiger claw is very strong, its more of a palm heel/rake than a direct "single point" eye strike, the goal being to get any number of fingers into the target zone, be it one or four.

The cobra fang is another great tool to use on the eyes, yes you can jam there as well if you miss, but it's benefits can outweigh that by far.

The thumb strike/boars tooth can be a great option for those who are worried about a finger jam, you brace your thumb on your fist for protection, it just does not have the extra reach of the jab/spear, though the jab can not be used to scoop as the thumb can if deeper in close quaters.

The eye gouge is anytime you can grab, rake and claw at the perps eye's. That one is a classic.

[norther practitioner]

I like the feel of finger strikes, spear, snake, etc. However, when fighting and sparring, I would use more of a panther paw.

[Paul]

phoenix eyes freakin' rule.

[dubj]

Yeah the phoenix eye is real nice when conditioned. In the style I am learning we use the thumb usually from behind the person and you use the nose to guide it to the eye. We also use one finger eye strikes though I would rarely use them. Also two fingers together which is probably the dragon sword, the three stooges cobra fangs, and the spear hand. My favorite though is the whip to the eye. It is like whipping your fingertips like a wet towel at the eyes. It is fast, distracting and usually directly followed with a power strike. We also use it to hit the eyes as we are grabbing the back of the head. It will definately hurt your eyes or give you something to block. Most of these are called the female techniques and are aimed at the eyes, throat, groin and my teacher will use them on the temple and certain organs and pressure points, and the spear hand on the ribs and even my waist to the right or left of the tan tien and lower back.

[Sam Wiley]

I like finger strikes. Trusting, scraping, poking, whipping, all of them. Especially using a finger thrust on soft areas, where they really penetrate.

But I prefer the Tiger Paw over the Phoenix Eye. Feels more structurally sound and is easier for me to change to from an open palm.

[Paul]

Not structurally sound? How do you make your phoenix eye?

I was taught to press the tip of the thumb down onto the side of the tip of the bent index finger. If you don't condition it though, hey it's your finger/thumb not mine.

when you make it like this, you can hit with the thumb also.

[Repulsive Monkey]

or Dim Mak if learnt over many years can be extremely effective and of course lethal. I know it's easy to make of fun of all the usual misunderstood ideas surrounding so called death touches etc, but the fact remains if you know your anatomy and phsyology then finger strikes trully are dangerous. By learning the functions of points on the body spotting can be a vicious art and always used to be. So many of the spots on the body can also be so clearly explained from a western point of view as to vulnerabilities. Of course the two hardest things about Dian Xue, is 1) findinf one of the few teachers around today that can teach it propoerly and safely, and of course trying to study it, without making too many mistakes and killing your classmates!!!!!

[nightair]

Oh yeah! I love finger strikes! I thrust my hand in rice and I do all of that "weird" stuff. I can thrust my hand threw a cantalope and a head of lettuce. I can even get in a watermelon but it takes 3 to 4 shots.

[Sam Wiley]

Originally posted by Paul
Not structurally sound? How do you make your phoenix eye?

I was taught to press the tip of the thumb down onto the side of the tip of the bent index finger. If you don't condition it though, hey it's your finger/thumb not mine.

when you make it like this, you can hit with the thumb also.

Try making the Tiger Paw fist, with the middle finger knuckle protruding and the tip of the thumb on the knuckle of the index finger. You can still strike with the thumb that way. And besides that, take your phoenix eye fist, and press sideways against the knuckle toward the thumb. You can do the same with the Tiger Paw and the knuckle doesn't bend to either side, unlike the phoenix eye. We use the Tiger Paw to strike straight inward, as well as crossways, and also pop the knuckle crossways (which is something you couldn't do with the Phoenix Eye without risk of injury).

[neito]

try busting your pinky finger through a coaster

[ChiTaoWU]

What do you mean about use fingerstrikes? Do you mean practice them or use them for fights? I use them for both.
I have strengthened all of my fingers through varyous training and can do some pretty good damage with a finger jab but my favorite is the one knuckle fist or three finger snake strikes.

[TaoBoy]

Pheonix Eye Fist and Spearing Fist are great penetrating strikes.
Also, Ginger (Stepping) Fist - basically a Leopard Fist but the fingers are not aligned, they 'step'. Kinda works like a Pheonix Eye but has more points of contact.

I am curious about the various ways of conditioning the fingers.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.