Internal Choy Lay Fut

[americandesi75]

What is exactly meant by "Internal" Choy Lay Fut sets? I've always viewed CLF as an external art. I know there is a Fut Jerng form, which has more palm strikes, but that doesn't necessarily make it internal does it?

I noticed in some CLF curriculums the word Bot Gwa (or Bagua) is used in some forms...I'd like some clarification on this. How, when, and why in particular was Bagua adopted into the CLF curriculum (as opposed to Chen Taijiquan, Xing-Yi, etc).

And finally, if there actually are internal CLF sets, is there such thing as CLF qigong methods? It seems that if an art has an internal component, there'd have to be corresponding qigong practices...

Any info would be much appreciated.

-amdes

[dezhen2001]

Bagua is not just a martial art. That would be Bagua Zhang. It relates to the Yijing (I Ching) as well, and is a common name in many different styles of Qigong and Gong fu. Usually relates to more circular type movements... but i could be wrong :p

I'm sure someone who does CLF will be able to tell you :)

david

[Fu-Pow]

Well....I'll do my best...although there are other folks here with more experience.

Bagua as it refers to CLF has nothing to do with BaguaZhang. Bagua refers to eight directions. Begginning CLF forms usually follow a cross pattern on the ground but when you get to the higher levels they follow a 8 sided pattern or essentially one cross pattern overlayed with another cross pattern shifted 45 degrees. I could be wrong about this because I haven't learned any Bagua forms yet. Also, 8 is a special number in Chinese culture because it refers to the 8 trigrams of the I Ching. This is a famous uniquely chinese philosophical text used by Taoists, Confucianists and even Buddhists. You will see the number three, eight, nine, eighteen and 108 alot in Chinese culture.

My branch does not have the internal CLF sets, however I have had many discussions about it and seen it performed. The internal in CLF is a Shaolin/Buddhist derived form of Chi Gung excercise. It is purported to be a very ancient form of Chi Gung that inspired or influenced many of the other forms of internal arts/chi gung out there, for example Taiji. However, apparently it has more "extensive" movements than Taiji. At a high level CLF becomes more like Taiji in that it is a "stick and follow" martial art. They have something called "Unicorn Sticky Hands." This is where the internal training comes in.

[CLFNole]

In all CLF has 9 bat gwa forms. The bat gwa refers to the 8 directions of the bat gwa circle and in no way is related to bat gwa jeurng, the internal style. Bat gwa is incorporated into the names of other forms such as Hung Gar's Ng Long Bat Gwa Kwun or the 5th Brother's 8 Diagram Staff.

There are internal CLF sets, however they are only taught in the Chan Family lineage from Chan Yong Fa is Australia.

These forms are not in my lineage so I know nothing about them. I think they are chi kung type sets.

Peace.

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

Yes CLF does start off external but as u advance it gets internal, hard & soft together (yin/yang) as most styles are or should be. CLF does have internal qi gong sets, it's called Lohan Qi Gong & it has a very vast curriculim. The main sets u will hear of are, 18 lohan hands, small & large lohan, wu chi, etc... there's even a tai chi set (Tai Gik Kuen). Most CLF branches dont have the internal/Qigong sets because it was only taught & passed down to the Chan family.(Founder Chan Heungs family) Only in the last 20 years it has been revealed & taught to the public by Master Chen Yong-Fa when he came & opened his school in Sydney, Auatralia. I have not reached the qigong yet as i have only started my training not long ago so i can't tell u what it's like but someone here might have some experience or knowledge of it. U should ask this questions on clfma.com & check out the site for info, it's master Chen's CLF site.

Also the Bak Gwa in the sets are to do with fighting in the 8 directions & not the Ba Gua Zhang style. But again im not very experienced so maybe someone else can help. One more thing i've heard the Bak Gwa mentioned in the internal side also, Bak Gwa Palms & Bak Gwa Walking, can someone tell me anything about this? Master Chen will be teaching it in China this year along with the 5 Elements etc... clfma.com

[DRAGON32]

Hello, this is my first post.
I am a CLF student from Spain, my linage is Pedro Rico, Doc Fai Wong´s student.
We have internal set:
- Sup Bot Lohan Yik Gun Kuen
- Lohan Fook Fu Kuen
- Fut Jeong Kuen
- Kwan Yi Kuen
- Seh Ying Kuen

[americandesi75]

Hey, thanks for all your replies, I think I'm getting a better picture...

Since I've never seen an internal CLF form, does it differ structurally from "regular" CLF forms? I ask, because a significant difference between, say, CLF forms and Tai Chi forms is that the CLF structure is based off of sei ping ma, where your centerline is not directly or regularly out facing the opponent during techiques (like gwa, sao, tsop, etc). But in Tai Chi and Xing Yi, it is. So how is it in the internal CLF?

amdes