IMA can you tell?

[bamboo_ leaf]

If you have touched hands with some one who was an IMA or you consider yourself an IMA.

Would someone be able to tell something was very different about your actions or touch?

Would you be able to tell if some one was an IMA stylist or not by their actions or touch?

[miscjinx]

Yes, that is one of the surest and quickest ways to determine if someone is internal and what their level of skills is - push hands or similar actions.

[Water Dragon]

Just look at their structure. You should be able to see the line of force that connects their hand down into the ground. It will just look powerful. Go to emptyflower.com and check out the article by the brazillian guy or that pic of Felipe Bido. That's what you want to look for.

[miscjinx]

I can usually see it, but the feel them is more sure.

[Prairie]

I'd like to say that I could pick out an IMA practitioner by sight alone, but I can't. However, I think I may be able to tell by touch. The three people that I've met who could earnestly call themselves IMA people have a wierd way of throwing back energy through the point of contact. It's as if there is no force at the contact point but there is something powerful occuring at the contact point.

Seeya

[shaolinboxer]

I tend to observe how relaxed a person is when making this determination.

[Xebsball]

All i know is that when i look at a Xing Yi dude doing his thing you can se the word "power" written on his forehead.

[Nexus]

As soon as you come into contact with someone you know them. As soon as somebody touches you, their intentions are clear as day. TC is learning to listen and become sensitive to what these feelings mean. So sure, if you come into contact with an IMA you can see what they are communicating just by the feel, a lot more clearly in fact than you could with words.

[bamboo_ leaf]

For those who view them selves as IMA how do you feel others perceive you in action and crossing hands ? :)

[Kumkuat]

You can sometimes tell by just looking. But a lot of people can fake that, so the last resort is by touching them.

[miscjinx]

"For those who view them selves as IMA how do you feel others perceive you in action and crossing hands ?"

I have my dreams of what I should feel like to others, but unfortunately you can't really feel yourself for this and I am still working on things so I know I don't yet feel the way I want others to sense.

But from laying hands on other IMA, I know how a few things feel. But this also depends on what you want to test. If I want to test their connections and ground path, I would push on them and ask they stay immobile. There is no give and it feels like pushing on a brick wall. If I wanted to test their sensitivity and redirecting force, I would ask them to keep me off of their center as I push for it...and then it feels like a greased ball bearing and the lighter it feels the better they are (ideally it would be like I was just swinging at the air).

That is probably why you just need to push hands for a bit. When you push you get the latter, and when they push back you get the former. Push hands would get you the all around check of various skills. Push hands in motion (non-static) would get these skills and their manuverability/rooting.

[Chris McKinley]

By touching, I can tell where a person's center is and how concentrated and solid it is. That's the practical side of it, but it's not a surefire way to tell. Whether or not someone labels themselves an internal artist, the thing that I'm "feeling" for is how soft and fluid are they able to make their center. Also, if they are able to disperse, or de-localize, their center, that's usually a dead giveaway for a skilled internal artist or a very advanced external guy who's picked up on some internal principles and made them his own.

As for what someone could tell about me, I suppose it all depends on who's doing the touching of hands. Assuming they knew what to look for, most folks would pretty much peg me right away as an internal guy. The really skilled top-level guys are gonna think I'm about as supple as the tin woodsman and about as difficult to figure out as a two-piece jigsaw puzzle. Still, I can hide my center from about 99% of what's out there, so I guess I'm doing okay for now.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Whew!! <bows to Leafs' ability to ask a deep question>

I can't say for certain that i can tell if my partner is an IMA stylist.. but i can tell if they have internalized whatever art they are practicing.. i have crossed hands with external stylists that would certainly pass for a good IMA stylist.. i don't think "internal" is reserved for a specific genre of students/teachers.. some fortunate people, with no training, are more attuned to their center/nature than we like to think.. a musician (drummer) once asked me to show him "push-hands", i was humbled at his softness and responsiveness.. when i complimented him, he said that "it just seemed natural, why contend"..

Sometimes i think we prejudge people based on "style".. perhaps we should let the experience speak for itself.. release pride, and welcome "internal awareness" from wherever it appears.. It is, for me, difficult to release more than a decade of sincere and dedicated practice, to acknowledge someone's untrained wisdom/insight.. but, the reward of shared insights is too promising to hang on to my own prejudices..

I have also been deceived by gifted competitors that appeared stiff and resistant.. until i let my arrogance of superiority cloud my "listening".. resulting in Bob sitting on his butt in front of a snickering audience (note to self: oh, what's that little diddy about "assume").. i am trying to internalize the lessons that teach me to keep my own house in order, remain neutral, and remember that each crossing of hands is a learning experience.. Similarly, i have crossed hands with acclaimed "masters" that were either very distracted or unnaware of their Art's potential..

In any case, i suggest that we not worry so much about external/internal as the quality of the individual.. Be well, All..

[Ray Pina]

You can see it.

For one, they have a stronger structure and are not as busy with their hands. Hung Gar will say, What's stronger than our horse?

Nothing! Unless I push you from the front, then you fall on your but. Not the same type of strenght we talk about in internal. Moving freely, or being moved freely because of their power, while maintianing a strong structure. Fluid striking. Natural kicking.

As for just seeing it without action. No way. Soemtimes, yes, But others play the fool a lot too. Modest, they do not want seniors or orthers to think they are being one-uped. The only way really is to fight, not even push hands.

[Fu-Pow]

I think 2 big indicators are the legs and shoulders.

No matter what the movement in IMAs the muscles in the shoulders and the legs are relaxed.

It is very strange.

[No_Know]

"For one, they have a stronger structure and are not as busy with their hands. Hung Gar will say, What's stronger than our horse?

Nothing! Unless I push you from the front, then you fall on your but."

Theoretically, in a good horse-riding stance, the person would not fall on the butt nor at all, even though pushed from the front. The highest hard is soft. Simple has complexity.


""He who knows does not speak;
He who speaks does not know."

-Lao Tzu"

It sounds good, but, if you take it as absolute Truth, then, that it is said, by it's own definition-ish makes it invalid; unless written doesn't count-ish. Some things seem put certain ways to get points across. Taking these literally you might not address the point. And some phrases that don't at first seem clear, if they are addressed literally, the sense becomes evident.

The true Tao might not can be told (literally). But it might can be alluded to with phrasses or the such that make sense through comprehension of experience.- Ernie Moore Jr.-ish. Perhaps some-such, some-might say.

However, I No_Know