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NineStep
02-02-2001, 07:09 AM
Hey everyone. I've been viewing this forum for quite some time and finally decided to sign up and start posting. Anyway, here's my question. Please respond and give me your opinion on this.
Not disrespecting Man Kwong Fong in any way, but his Sub Jee form makes no use whatsoever of the phoenix-eye fist, plus it is slightly different than the version I learned. Do any of you know why this is, and if it is perhaps a truer version of Sub Jee? He was the last and youngest deciple of CLC, is this just a later version that CLC taught without the phoenix-eye fist used? Anyway, give me your insights and any students of Man Kwong Fong i'd really like to hear from you.
By the way, I know all the controversy regarding the different branches of Pak Mei and variations. This is just something I was wondering if someone who knows can expound upon. Let's get a Good thread going here.

lungyuil
02-02-2001, 08:28 AM
Maybe he doesn't believe in teaching the pheonix eye fist at such an early stage to inexperienced students. It is quite dangerous.I use the pheonix eye fist alot even in sparring and my sifu tells me not to when we spar due to it being dangerous.

Maybe he added his own flavour to the form to suit his abilities. It has been known for many teachers to do that. Sort of putting their own signature on it. Not that their is anything wrong in that, but some teachers sometimesmight add a few things.

Our Sup Jee form is a little different to Pak Mei Sup Jee. I have practiced the Pak Mei Sup Jee and our YKM form is similar yet has some different moves. Like i said different teachers adding their own flavour to it. :)

NineStep
02-02-2001, 08:41 AM
See, that is my guess as well. However, I had someone very highly skilled in Pak Mei tell me that the phoenix-eye fist is mainly used by the younger generation practitioners and that alot of the older Pak Mei guys do not use it, instead they use a regular closed fist. He said that alot of them felt it was more stable and consider the phoenix-eye fist more of a younger man's technique. I'm not saying I agree with this, so let's not get a flame going, but it is food for thought.
You'll also notice that there are branches of CLC Pak Mei that emphasize the use of a type of Ba Gwa blocking method and these practitioners don't seem to use much of the pheonix-eye in their method either.
Anyway, thanks for the reply. Lets keep it comin!

lungyuil
02-02-2001, 09:07 AM
Maybe the older generation want to play dumb(no offence) or just not teach the real use of the pheonix fist. Maybe they cannot hold the pheonix eye fist correctly anymore or maybe they didn't learn it properly(no offence to anyone, just a guess)

See we also don't punch with the palm of the fist facing downwards, we punch at an angle with the elbow facing the floor and arm bent.

My Sifu doesn't hold back on teaching us anything. He doesn't believe in that.

We have a form called Say Mun Baqua (8 directional fist).

Food for thought. :)

fiercest tiger
02-02-2001, 09:11 AM
i have the video you are talking about.

the bak mei trademark is phoenix eye fist. what i have been told is that dragon style never used phoenix eye - the new generation do. there are times in bak mei forms when regular fists are used - depends on angle, direction & intention of the punch.

i was taught to use the regular fist when i learnt the basics, and was shown the phoenix eye fist only when i reached intermediate levels. the reason for this - if you cant yet punch properly with a regular fist, then you would definately damage yourself doing the phoenix eye. the hand is conditioned and trained as a regular fist first. in the past, phoenix eye fist was only taught to those that were trusted.

ill write more later - im going to see crouching tiger hidden dragon. nice thread - welcome aboard.

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

NineStep
02-02-2001, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the post. What is your opinion of the form as presented by Man Kwong Fong? It differs quite a bit from the version i learned, however I cannot say I dislike it. It is rather interesting to me to think that perhaps what I was told about the older generation versus the younger generation might be true. Anyway, let me know what you think. Hopefully we can get a good, overall discussion thread of Pak Mei going here.

fiercest tiger
02-02-2001, 01:01 PM
you probably know that sup jee is sometimes called sui sup jee, dai sup jee is also called sek see.
maybe that is the form you are learning? can you descibe a little to me so i can get a better picture. if its almost the same as man kwong fongs sup jee with a few small differences, it doesnt really matter which one is right & which ones wrong. they are probably both a little different from the ones taught to them. lots of different things can "change" a form; body shape, flexibility, disability, & understanding (& more). if the form is completely different to the forms you have, then it is worth learning.

man kwong fongs sup jee is good, it is very similar to sek see. overall it is an excellent basic form which has good fighting applications.

incidentally, we (ykm) have a form that is called sup jee kuen... it is quite different to the bak mei (clc) version. :)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

NineStep
02-02-2001, 02:19 PM
The Sub Jee as I know it differs only slightly from the version taught by Man Kwong Fong. The main difference is of course that the version I practice contains the phoenix-eye fists as well there is the typical 1-legged 3-hop retreat (dragon influence?) following a low side kick as well power is issued a little differently (more abrupt in it's expression).
Man Kwong Fong's expression of power is more fluid and has a tensile like quality to it where as the version I have is more like a series of small bursts being released. I am sure however that much of this probably has to do with the fact that his power is more refined and has little to do with the actual form itself.
His chi-kung was interesting albeit a little ambiguous. This may however have been intentional on his part.
Some very interesting stuff here.

Olaf
02-02-2001, 04:21 PM
Sub Jee is not originally Pak Mei. It is from the Li Ga system. That could be the reason you dont see the phoenix eye fist

NineStep
02-02-2001, 10:53 PM
I'm aware that Sub Jee is not an "original" Pak Mei set; I'm also aware that from my understanding anyway that it originally comes from Lee Gar. However, as practiced in Pak Mei it usually contains the signature phoenix-eye fist as it was reworked by CLC to conform to the Pak Mei principles. Since MKF (getting tired of writing his name out...lol) is a Pak Mei Sifu who trained personally under Master CLC I was curious as to why his Pak Mei Sub Jee Kuen did not apparently make use of the phoenix-eye fist. See I was even considering the possibility that perhaps the version MKF offers is intentionally closer to the original Lee Gar version of Sub Jee. Who knows..lol.
Anyway, thanks for the input. Let's keep this post a-rollin.

NineStep
Pak Mei kung-Fu

lungyuil
02-02-2001, 11:27 PM
Sorry, my mistake. Our version of Sup Jee is called Sek See in YKM. In the Pak Mei version that i learnt it was also called Sek See. Fiercest tiger is correct in the different names.
In YKM we have a form called Sup Jee yet it is completely different to Sek See/Sup Jee(9 setps version). :)

Oh yeah, the PM version of Sek See i know doesn't have the 1 legged 3-hop, we have bend the knee then jump back into a crouch, get up (left)low side kick followed by a right jump front kick. :)

[This message was edited by lungyuil on 02-03-01 at 01:56 PM.]

fiercest tiger
02-03-2001, 12:00 AM
lung yuil- bak mei has sup jee and sek see too! but they are very similar to each other.

our sup see is different, our sek see is the old version large cross set(dai sup jee) old name and sek see is the new name. MKF version has ying jee bok lerng( sp) bird sits on perch technique. ours dont, we have more hand work AND lots on TTFC.
the vietnamese version sek see is again different, it makes use of 8 direction. MKF demo is does look a little tense, i think its the stomping ging he is doing during the movements, making himself ground and more explosive. he definately has power.

nine step- it doesnt matter if the phoenix eye is in it or not. maybe he doesnt want to show the phoenix eye on video. :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

NineStep
02-03-2001, 12:21 AM
I agree that it matters little, just a curiosity. In fact i'm rather intrigued by the concept of using a regular fist as opposed to the phoenix-eye exclusively.
It is just this type of research and discussion as well as hard work and practice that help to uncover the truths often thought long lost or hidden deep within the system.
Thanks for the reply.

NineStep
Pak Mei Kung-Fu

fiercest tiger
02-03-2001, 12:47 AM
who is your sifu and where do you live?

what level/form have you attained?

depends on where your hitting on your opponent when using the phoenix eye, regular fist will still do damage if you have ging! palms and finger strikes are big too, in bak mei.

try emailing him, he may give you a answer on that question.

:)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

NineStep
02-03-2001, 03:22 AM
I live in the U.S. and have been studying, researching and practicing Pak Mei for around 9 yrs now. My personal training program consists of the following:

Gic Bo (straight steps)
Sub Jee (cross pattern)
Gau Bo Taew (9 step push)
Wu Dip Do (butterfly knives)

I believe in keeping it simple and follow the less-is-more/quality over quantity approach. I currently train a small group of students who compete full-contact in muay thai style fights and they are all doing very well.
I have already emailed MKF but have yet to hear back from him concerning this. Hopefully I will get a reply soon.
Speaking of finger strikes, were you aware that Gic Bo is often also titled Gic Bo Biu Jee Kuen? I found this most interesting and would like to get your take on it as well. Finger strikes indeed!
Anyway I hope that helps. This has been really interesting. Maybe we can hear from mantis108 on this.

NineStep
Pak Mei Kung-Fu

fiercest tiger
02-03-2001, 04:18 AM
chung bo kuen, jik bo, ly jik bo, jik bo buil jee kuen. all same form different variations. depending on the emphasis of TTFC, or buil jee choom choy, or stance work.

this is a little couplet for jik bo-

"try hard and persistently on the straight step punch; the method of inspiration and expiration, risr and fall of movements, all lie in it"

definatly quality is better than quantity, who was your sifu? havent learnt the double tonfa yet? ;)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

NineStep
02-03-2001, 05:26 AM
Very interesting. "all lie in it". Everything can be traced back to the gic bo.
My teacher was a man named Michael Newman. He was killed a few years ago and since then I have been studying and researching pak mei kung-fu on my own. He taught me pak mei and wu style tai chi chuan that he learned while working as a cook in Kansas City, Mo. Apparently the owners of the restaurant brought this guy over from hong kong who spoke almost no english and he wasn't here exactly legally. According to Michael everyone that worked in the kitchen called this guy "ugly knuckles" due to his enlarged and heavily calloused knuckles. Michael studied pak mei and wu style from him until he got booted back to hong kong for being here illegally. go figure.
no I haven't had the opportunity to learn the double tonfa set. Isn't that set originally from Lee family as well? I could be wrong about this. Sounds like a very interesting set though.
Funny thing is I've been told that my wu dip do is almost identical to the dragon style wu dip do. Wouldn't surprise me as that's probably where it originated from.

NineStep
Pak Mei Kung-Fu

mantis108
02-03-2001, 06:43 AM
Hi NineStep,

First of a warm welcome. Thank you also for the invite to the Pak Mei forum. It is wonderful to see more practitioner making use of the internet. We can all meet and benefit from each other.

Regarding your curriculum:

Gic Bo (straight steps)
Sub Jee (cross pattern)
Gau Bo Taew (9 step push)
Wu Dip Do (butterfly knives)

I must applaud you for keeping it simple. Quality, IMHO, is more important than quantity. Personally, I am not a form collector neither. I'd like to comment on your curriculum first and then on the Gic Bo if you don't mind.

The 3 forms, in my mind, pretty much cover all the bases. From this choice, I would surmise that your orientation is street fright readiness. More walk less talk. Good choice on the weapon as well. That conforms to the hand forms or shall I say extending the hands? By using such a curriculum, it would produce a proficient fighter in a relatively short time frame within 3 years may be less. Good to see that.

Jik Bo (hope this won't turn into another controvesy), as far as my research goes it might not be a Bak Mei orginal. It might have been based on a form or a system called Sarm Bo Tyui, which was Hoi Fung Si's specialty (I have no written prove of this though). Lung Ying's version of Sarm Bo Tyui is the Sup Luk Dong (16 moves). In Lung Ying's Meng Fu Til Cheung, there is a section very similar to Jik Bo except it's right leg forward. It is believed that Meng Fu Tuil Cheung was a adoptation of Sarm Bo Tyui as well. The Bil Jee Yat Tsui is unmistakenly present in these forms. Tun To Fao Chum is there, and the Pheonix eye is used as well (not for novice though).

Mantis108

P.S.

My Curriculum:

Jik Bo (Straight steps)
Dan Ging (Single Power)
Meng Fu Chut Lum (fierce Tiger leaves the woods) not good at this one yet :D
Fu Mei Kwan (Tiger Tail staff)

Would add the bench later.

Contraria Sunt Complementa

NineStep
02-03-2001, 08:13 AM
Glad you joined in the disscussion here. Interesting observation on the gic bo; it wouldn't surprise me if you were correct on that.
Thank you for the kind words regarding my curriculum. I can see that you hold the same idea of quality over quantity. I had recently read of some old Hsing-I guys who would learn and focus on just one of the 5 fists as opposed to learning all 5 or even the animal forms. Supposedly the ones who chose to take this route of simplicity had attained a reputation as some of the fiercest fighters. Just food for thought.
Fierce Tiger Comes Out From Forest (Fierce Tiger Leaves the Woods) is a nice form. Some rather sophisticated techniques that still yet hold practical combat value. Kudos.
again thanks for the kind words and hopefully we can continue a good discussion here. Glad you joined in.

NineStep
Pak Mei Kung-Fu

Olaf
02-03-2001, 10:55 AM
You guy's are right. There seems to be a tendency to base someones quality on the number of forms he/she knows and not the quality of the performance.
It also takes a good sifu/seniors to prove the added value of practising the same form over and over and making small ajustments/improvements.

Hmm thinking back about my gau bo tauw when I had just learned it amuses me now.

fiercest tiger
02-03-2001, 12:25 PM
i definitely believe that there are a few core forms, and by concentrating on them you could become very good.

BUT, as i was chosen as a bai see by my sifu, i must know ALL of the forms in our system well enough to be able to pass on the entire system to my students, and fulfill my sifus dying wish.

there are certain forms that i practise more than others, not necessarily the high levels, but ones that suit my body & strengths.

i like:-
ly jik bo (a bit different to the bak mei version)
sek see kuen (very similar to bak mei original version)
sup jee kuen
ying ching (dynamic tension / iron body)
sarm mun b'qua
luk hup kuen
say mun b'qua
sarm mun kuen
ying jow ling kui
gou bo toi
sup batt more kui
meng fu chut lam
ng ying kuen
+ the 3 internal forms

erm - didnt realise i had so many favourites :)

forms i dont like as much (but still practise):-
tung jee kuen (1st level - sick of teaching it)
dai sut kuen (ground fighting & lots of jumping & falling techs)

okay - so i LIKE my system :D

my fav. weapon forms by the way are fore day chin chi pa (tiger fork) & the long pole, bench, + more.

good discussion!!

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

BIU JI
02-03-2001, 03:59 PM
Ninestep- do you have any videos of the fights , it would be interesting to see them.

kull
02-03-2001, 06:53 PM
Hi,
I don't think whether you use phoenix eye or regular fist in Sup Ji would make that particular version any different or more true than the other. Unless it looks completely different.

The last time I have seen KMF was about 20yrs ago(lol...)I didn't see him do sup ji, but saw him do 18 hands. Extremly powerful sifu, at least back then. I saw his students do sup ji. Maybe i will visit him, since iam in NYC.

I have also seen Cheung Bing Lum about 5yrs.ago, his sup ji is also a little different. Form the one i have seen. He does not jump back at all, in his form; but goes into a immediate strike after biu ji. For a 70 yr sifu, he is very agile and powerful.

It seem that most techers do form a little different. That is why i look to the core principles of Pak Mei style; TTFC, aggresiveness, explosive power, correct developement of "jing", etc....

For instance one cannot say to be bak mei practitioner when they do form and energy looks like wing chun, dragon, or tsai li fo.

Kevin Barkman
02-03-2001, 08:02 PM
I hope one day the root of all the short hand systems becomes a little more clear with time.

I wonder about Sup Luk Dong and Jek Bo being the same root. It seems to me that Bo Bo Toy is a bit closer in the stepping, and techniques. I was told that CLC based Jek Bo on this exercise.

Hmmm...think I might start a new thread on the differences between the two styles

Cheers - Kevin

NineStep
02-03-2001, 11:14 PM
Welcome to the discussion. Yes I do have video as well as pictures of the fights. We have another fight set up for them this month after having December and January off so it promises to be interesting. You can email me if you like and are interested in seeing the video. I can also email you some pics keeping in mind they take a while to download. I'm going to very soon be putting up a page where I'm going to keep updated photos of the fights and make video available as well. I'll keep you posted.

NineStep
Pak Mei kung-fu

tnwingtsun
02-16-2001, 07:22 PM
I trained under Dr.YQ Wong in the 80's when there was not so much information on the Bai Mei System flying through cyber space.I must say I am thrilled to death to see so much info on this system.I have studied Wing Tsun under Emin Boztepe in recent years which seems to differ from its WC brothers in many aspects.Getting back to White Eyebrow,I still consider Dr. Wong my first Sifu and Bai Mei still runs strong in my blood and spirit.I had the honor of attending a visit a few months ago to Dr. Wong's school by a Bai Mei Elder (5th Gen.,Wong is 6th,I am 7th)from New York,not the Kwong or MLK? (Video Guy) which seemed to be shuned by the elders,who knows,I don't know the whole story and don't speak chinise.While I studied the system the forms I learned are as follows(I don't know the chinise names) Salman,Flower,Short Cross,Staff,Straight Foward,Tiger Fork,Nine Step Push and started on a internal salman and Mor Que when I got lazy,starting having babies and took a 4 year break from working out,I overheard one of the elders talking about a form that comes I belive after the form five elements called "13 or 9 deamons crossing the bridge"???,anyone heard of this one?,thanks for any info on this

fiercest tiger
02-16-2001, 11:21 PM
welcome aboard, its great when we get a good topic flowing, then usually it blows up.
:(
i have seen dr wongs site, its has some good info there. maybe the form you have is called sup batt mor kuil 18 devil bridge.

does dr wong teach tai chi as well?

what is salman?
:D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

tnwingtsun
02-17-2001, 11:02 AM
Thanks for jarring my memory Tiger,Kull talked about a Cheung Bing lum,I belive he was the elder I talked about in my last posting,I am sure his last name is Cheung and him and a few of his long time students came down from NY,it was his top student that I asked what form is taught after "five elements" and his response was the "deamons" pattern,my understanding is that "mor que" is a seperate form that is taught after "internal salman" and "nine step push",perhaps "mor que" and the "deamon" are one in the same,perhaps I misunderstood him or he misunderstood me,one thing is for sure.....I need to study up on my Chinise speaking abilitys!,lol,getting to your question about the form "Salman",it was the first form I learned and I think(I know it is a external form) it comes from the Lee family style and there are other external forms from differant systems that GM Cheung Li Cheng incorperated into the "White Eyebrow Style",it is my understanding that he kept the forms from other systems he thought useful and modified them to keep with his newly found "emei shoalin" which he re-named "White Eyebrow fist" in honor of the founding Monk,this is only my understanding and I'm sure I've missed out on some minor details,On the Tai-Chi question,yes,he does teach Tai-Chi,I am far from being a expert in this field and always thought that he taught "Yang Style" but when Cheung came down from NY he did "Chen Style" which looked like Dr. Wong's Tai-Chi,Hmmmm,I'll have to ask him next time I see him,by the way I got to cross hands with Cheung which started out as Tai-Chi pushing hands and I switched it to a Wind Tsun type chi-sau,whops!,that guy knew chi-sau too!!,after about a minute of that I guess he got bored because all I could think was "WOW!,that duds in his seventies as I flew through the air!,lol,keep un coming guys,this is getting fun!

sui-fuw
02-19-2001, 03:12 AM
9 step is your "pak-mei" long or short?

quality not quantity? how do you honestly feel about it? easy words to write and say!!

kull
02-20-2001, 08:03 AM
I met Cheung Bing Lum several yers ago. He never mentioned he visited the US. He certainly does not live in NY.

Is it possible you might have meant some other 5th gen. ppl.?

tnwingtsun
02-21-2001, 08:15 PM
My mistake Kull,talked to Wong yesterday and got his full name.My spelling of his name will be wrong,but maybe you can make some sense of it.Cheung Seur Dor,I'va got to go to Wong's for some punchure treatment so I'll get more details for ya latter

tnwingtsun
02-21-2001, 09:47 PM
Ok sorry about not having all of the facts straight,now I do,Cheung Lum and Cheung Beng Fatt were CLC's two sons.In 1982 Dr.Wong tried to get a visa for Cheung Beng Fatt(who was one of his teachers,the other being Ng Nam King).His visa was refused,why I don't know,he has passed away since.Ok,the guy from New York is Chin Dor(Cantonese name).He was a student of Chang Lai Chuen.KMF(who was a barber at that time) was first introduced to CLC by Chin Dor,KMF calls Chin Dor "Great Grand Uncle",he is in his 70s and moves like a Jungle Cat,he impressed me.Dr.Wong is older than KMF,which is neither here nor there,I'll get more info if you need......Peace

kull
02-21-2001, 11:59 PM
Yes, Chen Dor I met him back in late 70's and 80's. Very powerful kungfu. I remember last name was Chen, but forgot his full name. Does he stil teach in NYC?

I also met Kwong man Fong back then too. I recently found he still teach in NYC, lol. Also very fast and powerful kungfu. I saw him demonstrate at college once, that was how i met him. KMF was very open mind about teaching, Chen Dor has more secretive type personality.

In NYC then was only 3 bak mei teachers, Chen Dor, Kwong, and someone named Lee something forgot full name.

Why would KMF call Chen Dor uncle? They both learn from Cheung Lai Chun. Are they family realtive?

wisdom mind
02-22-2001, 12:23 AM
He is very traditional and will not reveal any true kung fu to persons he does not know.

tnwingtsun
02-22-2001, 10:00 AM
I was in the middle of repling to your post concerning the "uncle question" when I got pulled away from the puter,when I came back it was gone so I'll sum up what I wrote.Chin or Chen Dor seems to be ****her up on the Bai Mai feeding chain,they are not blood kin,Chinese tend to call senior class mates by "older brother,uncle,great uncle in Chi Dor's case kwong called him Great Grand Uncle.Maybe this is because Chin Dor was one of CLC's top students when Kwong first put on his grasshopper shoes,I'm not trying to stir anything up(we've all had grasshopper shoes,haven't we?) but Tom murphy learned from Dr.Wong starting in 1977,I started in 1984,if I was Chinese I suppose I would call him "Uncle" as apposed to older brother even though we learned from the same teacher,this status and ranking within the same gen. makes sence to me,from what I understand Kwong has no problem with this.Dr.Wong started training in 1946,started teaching in 1972,so if I had never trained with Wong but instead trained under Kwong in 1984 that would put me in Wong's gen.Not in my eyes,this status issue within the same gen.would indeed be an interesting topic in its own,now to Cracker, Chen Dor is Very traditional and is not very open.Him and Dr.Wong are VERY close and I had the honor to train under him during his visit.He is a gentleman,I got lucky,right place,right time,right Sifu.

tnwingtsun
02-22-2001, 11:28 AM
Chin Dor is in New York,may I ask if you are also?,as far as taking on new students I don't know,are you Chinese?,that might help,if not it might be a problem,perhaps I could be of some help if you seek to be his puple,I could talk to Dr.Wong about reffering you to Chin Dor as a student.But since I nor Dr.Wong knows you, your best bet would be to come down here and I'll hook ya up,you seem to be a civil person and I enjoy disscusing Bai Mei topics with you as you've given me much incite,Where theres a will,theres a way

wisdom mind
02-22-2001, 09:07 PM
i dont know anything about chen dor or the like...my reply was in respone to the original question about kwong sifu's sup jee......thats all

kull
02-24-2001, 12:17 AM
Tnwingchun-

Yes iam chinese. I posted my training in bai mei on this forum b4.

I wasn't interested in becoming Chen Dor student, I was interested to know if he still teach in NYC. It has been little over 20yrs since. It is good to know that at least 2 of CLC student still teaching.

I think iam little old and don't really have as much time to train like i use to anymore. But thank you anyway.

Crackerjacks-

Are you Kwong shifu student? If so u are very lucky.

tnwingtsun
02-26-2001, 10:52 AM
You're very welcome and seem to be a gentleman,I'll dig more on this "uncle issue"since I brought it up.In the future I'll try to present a more complete story rather than leaving questions such as these to be hatched.To FT,I belive your "Sarm Mun b'qua" may be the same form as my "Salman",at least if you say them 108 times very fast they sound the same,or maybe its your say mun kuen,ok I know kuen means fist but when you say b'qua do you mean like 8 directions as in Bac Qua?.Concerning the form "Jek Bo" I understand this to mean "Straight Foward" in English,does it translate to straight step or foward or both?,is this a Cantonise/Manderin/Hakka way of saying the same thing?

[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-27-01 at 01:03 AM.]

[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-27-01 at 01:14 AM.]

fiercest tiger
02-26-2001, 11:21 AM
jik bo= straight step
ly jik bo= i think slide straight step
chung bo= step forward??

have you guys heard of bik bo, in your footwork?

if so what is your tranlation and differences to jik bo. :)

sarm mun kuen or b'qua kuen... i have 2 different forms here. sarm mun b'qua has a stomping step in mine, and uses dune kuil, similar to kuil sao in wingchun. do you have this?

sarm mun kuen has elements of ying jow lin kuil and sarm mun b'qua kuen, but 2 different forms.

later

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

kull
02-27-2001, 06:38 AM
FT-
bik bo- can mean something like push,squeeze,press step.