Martial Arts obsession

[Chinwoo-er]

I am wondering.

Around about what piority do you believe one would place martial arts before it really becomes an obsession in a bad way.

What I am saying is not how people in the past classify things. But how you would now.

I mean, I am certain that there are many people here who might not be able to imagine a life without martial arts. But how far are you willing to stretch this ?

For example, I really doubt that anyone here would place MA over ethical values ( well, that is a part of MA in a sense ), so we should not have to debate about people going out killing others just for their own advancement.

But how about social life ? Is anyone here willing to drop that to pursue this path to a greater degree ? How about romantic life ? How about ( given an acceptable condition ) to leave the civilised life you have now ? Or any other hobby or pursue of knowledge ?

What I mean about other pursue of knowledge is that you pursue that particular knowledge to aid your MA and that reason alone. And you don't need to rationalise it to yourself in order to do that. If you find a piece of knowledge who in your heart will aid you MA, you will go for it. Not trying to find a far fetched reason which only your "reasoned" mind could accept and not your heart.

When does the devotion to MA become unhealthy ?



A good chance to ponder on our values.

Chinwoo-er

[friday]

ummm just a little input from my history...
yeah u can get too obsessed with MA.

while i was in hong kong studying kung fu under a master there...i think actually i know i went over the line. i just spent all my time training. i neglected my gf, family, my own body, kung fu training became a fulltime obsession for me... everything i talked about was kung fu kung fu ...after a short period understandably this sort of gets boring when thats the only thing u talk about. i hardly went out on a social basis. umm does lion dancing, teaching in aschool, umm...going to visit kung fu bros from overseas or visiting the competition site count? haha probably not.
anyway...i wouldn't do that again...ummm...mayb..;)

[Kristoffer]

I have had to quit taking 2 hobbies that I did 2 times a week to be able to train more.. I also neglect my school work ALOT. I neglect my time with my family aswell. The only thing I wont neglect is time with my gf. (not much anyway)

[Budokan]

MA has a priority in my life but it's not the highest priority. I would never put it above my family or my kids for any imaginable reason.

I don't dismiss out of hand those people who put their entire effort into training. Frankly, I rather respect that. It's just not a justifiable avenue for me to pursue right now. But if I had the chance, yeah, I would place it in a much higher priority bracket than it currently rests. --And that's pretty high even now.

[shaolinboxer]

Trust yourself. If you over train, you may feel depressed or sick. When you don't make it too class, it will make you anxious and agitated.

Training, even when it's bitter, should make you happy and healthy. Training is used when you are not training.....life is the application. Use your training to help enjoy your life.

[Crimson Phoenix]

I am so obsessed with gong fu that I actually come here to lose my time...ehehhee just kidding...I often feel torn between the fact that I want to train more, and the fact that I want to have more time for me and the persons I love...I guess it's irreconciliable, and it is better to have a serious training while still keeping a balanced life style...training all the time can make many people around you unhappy because all this time you are not with them...that's why back in the days, and some still do now, you had to give up on your family, on having a wife, children, maybe even work if you wanted to train as much as you could :eek:
I guess the secret is in the balance...
But in a true player way, I definitely place "CMA over bi@tches" hehehehehehheheheh
And if the girl just bugs you because "awwww, you're training too much, I need to see you more often", just take your best Snoop Dogg voice and go "I don't love you hoe" heheheheheheh
Just kidding...sort of...:D

[Royal Dragon]

Hmmmmm, I don't think I'm obsessed with my Kung Fu.

It's these Dammmm Kung Fu message boards !!!!!!!! :D

[neito]

even though ma is more important to me than school or work, i often have to neglect it for other things so i can can have opertunity to train later (since i cant train if i'm living in poverty). Once i graduate from university i will be totally obsessed with ma.

[qeySuS]

I neglect my school work a lot too, but that has nothing to do with training or anything else.

Now given all that does take up alot of time, but if i had any interst i'd have no problems finding 20 minutes a day to study. So my problem is basicly i'm lazy.

The key to being lazy is to accept it and say "i'm a lazy mofo and that's who i am", that way you wont let yourself down all the time, like when you get easter vacation and you say "wow i'm so gonna study the entire vacation!" then, of course, you dont because your lazy, and you get mad at yourself and guilty because you didnt do anything.

BUT! If you just accept your lazy and you'll never do it anyway it's a whole lot easier.

[Leonidas]

I totally agree qeySuS. You just gotta accept the lazy b@stard inside. :D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Friday is correct, some people can get obsessed that way. This is the case with students with personal insecurities. as a result they tend to seek out a society whome they can feel belonged to. The more honest ones find a cult and go there for worship. The dishonest ones ( i mean dishonest whith themselves) go on a pretense that they are though people and invaribly find a southern kung fu school. These schools don't require much talent, don't spar alot and at the same time, allow the students to fit in through a code of conduct or rituals - under trhe pretense of self defence or fighting.

[IronFist]

QeySuS said:

like when you get easter vacation and you say "wow i'm so gonna study the entire vacation!" then, of course, you dont because your lazy, and you get mad at yourself and guilty because you didnt do anything.

Yes.

Dàmn, I never do anything. I have a German test and a Visual Basic program due Monday and I haven't started anything yet.

IronFist

[ChiTaoWU]

I am into martial arts very much but i wouldnt say obsessed i just love MA so much that i got all my friends too start watching Gong fu movies and then eventually got them to train with me. no we all have a giant training area hidden in a canyon where we goto at least twice a week for SERIOUS gong fu training

[anton]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
The dishonest ones ( i mean dishonest whith themselves) go on a pretense that they are though people and invaribly find a southern kung fu school. These schools don't require much talent, don't spar alot and at the same time, allow the students to fit in through a code of conduct or rituals - under trhe pretense of self defence or fighting.

Or they go to a Northern school for a few weeks and when they realise its too much work (of course they never admit this to themselves or anyone else) and quit. However they remember a few of the students saying that Northern Styles are superior, so they fill the newly re-emerging void in their lives by joining an online message board, saying they trained for xx number of years and start flame wars. They say they're paraplegic to avoid challenges from overzealous Southern practitioners.
Of course anyone who had studied ANY traditional cma or any ma at all for any significant amount of time would know that any martial art has merit and would respect all ma. However as they have almost no ma experience they have no idea about ma etiqette. This is the hole in their story that reveals what they really are - wannabe losers who have nothing better to do with their time than spend it 'trolling' forums dedicated to something in which they have no experience.

[bearpaw]

Since I am a student and have no gf, if my KF school opened up a "monastery" that allowed us to train and work for the school (says gardening and selling at a farmers market) but also allowed us "free time" (going out with friends, drinking, ... NOTE: Many of my fellow KF school mates go dancing alot together ...) I would be all in for it. There is a school like this in San Diego, the teacher owns a company and students work for him to pay for instruction and some for room and board ...

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

anton: they mostly go to southern schools because there is a cultural feel to it all. Northern schools don't offer the opportunity for decipleship and relive the old day in ancient china - at least what is commonly known in pop cluture. Of course i can't discount the possiblity of what you said - with the exception that some are actually parapligics.

[friday]

hi everyone, hehe i can see ego my old friend has been posting stuff here lately...thank god he is on my ignore list haha
but i saw a snippet of what he said in one of your posts.
anyway the trick to not letting him turn your thread into one of the timeless obsessions of his own is basically to pretend he isn't here or have him on your ignore list. :)
just a tip for u all...

regards,

a very happy friday

ps. btw ego thanks for the encouragement, we have set up our own private lama forum.

[NorthernMantis]

Well it's all about prioritizing

Like my sifu said

1)(Depending on your religion) God goes 1st
2)Family goes 2nd
3)School goes third
and the rest goes after but...

Well since I am an obssesed maniac

1) God goes 1st in my life
2) Family/kung fu goes second

and so on:D

About ego don't worry about him.The guy just likes to start stuff with the southern people (why is that? 0_o? ).Abandit, the Fish or Furry (whom I have insulted) ,and I duked it out with his buddies 5 startstep and what's his name a couple of months ago on the shaolin board I think.

Funny thing about the ego and his buddies era when I came back to the main board someguy posted "northernmantis is in the shaolin board exposing the truth!" or something like that

Man I thought that was soo cool. :D

My parents flipped this morning when I told them that the ideal training time is 8 hours.My dad just said that you only need to train one hour like any other sport.

When is kung fu a sport?:confused:

[Sharky]

Things that come before kung fu/fitness/boxing etc

1) Family

2) My girlfriend

3) SOME friends (but they are close and i consider them family)

4) My music

5) That is IT

Martial arts come before my studies, personally. Unless i have lots of exams etc to do, like, life changing things. Then it would be retarded to not put work first.

So, that's my 2 figs.

[Tae Li]

I reckon everyone gets really obsessed at some stage, i was soooooo obsessed when i first started that i would CRY if i missed one lesson, cos i was being realy bad and my mother wouldnt let me go....this was YEARS ago.....other kids would get punished by not being able to go out with friends, i would be punished by not being allowed to train...it was horific!!! martial arts was my life, i spoke about it day and night, it still is my life now, but not as much.

There was a point when i was training so much during the week i would forget to eat!! i even tained during my HSC, and i had heaps of pressure placed on me to ge great results cos i was the school captain... one da before my maths exam, i went to watch the tri outs for the olympics in taekeondo....

EVERYTHING of mine was associated in one way or another with martial arts.... in reading time at school while others were reading novels, i was reading Bruce Lee's biography..

yep, i would say i was obsessed, even when i used to get up at 6am and practse Tae Chi outside in the freezing cold weather.

Tae Li;)

[Sharky]

"other kids would get punished by not being able to go out with friends, i would be punished by not being allowed to train...it was horific!!! martial arts was my life, i spoke about it day and night, it still is my life now, but not as much. "

same. indeed it got to a point in wing chun a few years back that i was banned from going all the way to covent garden in the centre of london to austin goh's everyday (1hr journey there, 1 hr back, 1:30 long lesson, and it was late, and we lived in a ****e area) and my grades went downhill and all i did was practice and practice and practice... tehy stopped me from going... it was costing $£$£$ too cos of teh train journey everyday.... we didn't have much moolah then.

then i started at a place closer, a kamon branch, and they kept stopping me from going, and it got to a point where it was like, if you get A's then you can go... but i was practicing (and other stuff was on top of me too) and stuff and troubles at home so they kept banning me going to kung fu... man i could be amazing now if i had been going consistently for all that time. bah!

now i have my own place and that's in the past, i can do what the FECK i want :)

[Tae Li]

see!! eventually things do work out!! lol

But i dont like to dwell on what couldve happened and afterall, things do happen for a reason (thats what i think anyway)

Tae Li;)

But exactly! now we can train 24hours a day seven days a week if we wanted to.... I declare myself in complete control mode.. hehe

[anton]

Having taken friday's advice (thanx mate) I can now reply to thread properly. :cool:
Its easy to become obsessed with gongfu, my school marks used to suffer when I got seriously into it. But I guess if you have your priorities set firmly, it shouldn't really become too much of a problem.

[red_fists]

Hi.

I have always succesfully resisted becoming obsessed with MA or anything else in my Life.
For me Priorities are as follows:
1.) Family
2.) Work
3.) MA and other Hobbies.

Why do I place Work & Family before MA.
Simple, Work pays for my MA training and other things I need in life.
Family is there to support me.
Regardles if I loose MA or my Job my Family is still there to support me.

Also I know it is easier finding a new Dojo/Kwoon/Dojang than a good Job and a new Family/Friends.
A good Fighter/MA will value his MA the highest, a successful MA knows that MA is only one aspect of Life but it can be used to enhance the other aspects.

Just my 2 Cents worth.

[CanadianBadAss]

hello,
my name is paul, and I'm a wing chun addict.

I train for 4 hours, about 3(some times 4) times a week. So it pretty much leaves me waisted, so I can spend my other time not completly fucused on WC. But every once in a while I don't get a my WC fix because I'm busy with school or somthing, and it just leaves me messed up the next day, all I do is WC, even at school, everywhere. I sit in class consintrating on relaxing, yet keeping my structure, straight spine and what not, "forword energy", and even start going through the from, or working on technique intill some one starts to notice...

[tri2bmt]

I have to disagree with you red fists. A good job may be replaceable and I'll agree with the family thing, but a good school and a good teacher are not always easy to come by. In fact I would put that up with family. IT is almost irreplaceable.

As for ego, he's an idiot. Obviously no humility and no respect. Proplably trains at a Mcdojo or a Temple Kung Fu.

[red_fists]

Tri2bmt.

Agree and disagree with you. But it really depends on your current school and style.

I am lucky that I got a few Kwoons of my style in my greater neighbourhood, so even if my Sifu died (pray she does not) I could till study in my style under a Sifu I know and that knows me.
Plus, sijo will also still be there.

So, yes in MY sitaution it is easier for me to find another Kwoon.
Even if my Style died totally, I would still have access to a lot of other high level Kwoons in Tokyo.

One of the reasons why I said finding a new Kwoon is easier as being part of a MA, another opening should be already known or become known soon enough.
Many Sifu do introduce their students to other Sifu from same style or other styles.

Have a good one.

[Chinwoo-er]

I agree on tri on this, It is really hard to find a good master and a good school. I have been shopping around a few years back and I have seen people teaching eagle claw in two ways. First they teach you the form and tell you that it is nothing but performance and then they teach you the fighitng part. Which is basically kickboxing.

And I have seen much worse. I have seen a master who STATES that CMA is NOTHING BUT health and exercise with no fighting value behind them whatsoever.

I have seen masters which are excellent fighters. But have absolutely no idea about the principles and theories behind the style. It is almost as if they trained MA on a face value. And tries to induce that kind of attitude of "don't bother with the research and principles, just focus on fighting" into the students.

It took me really long to find a decent master.

[red_fists]

Hi.

Getting back on track with "Obsession in MA".
I think a good Sifu should prevent his Students from becoming obsessed and thus neglecting other aspects of his Life.

I have seen it many a times in multiple styles and training places.
Newbie joins up and trains his butt off, every single minute of his Life is dedicated to MA.
After 3~4 yrs he/she quits as the reality train finally railroaded him/her.

He/She now has spend years on doing MA, his/her Job prospects look bleaker than before he/she started, the GF/BF or Wife/Husband might have given him the choice, University grades are down,
Kids started to arrive, etc the list goes on.

So now we good a Student that might be top of his class, and just disappears. ( JMA after getting Shodan). I think we have all seen this.

So I think one of the repsonsibilities of a good Sifu is to make sure that his Students don't neglect their Life outside the Kwoon.

Just some thoughts.

[neito]

your new icon looks cool

[red_fists]

Originally posted by neito
your new icon looks cool

Thanks.

Just glad the Chinese Characters can still be deciphered at that size.

[jon]

Am i obsessed with Kung fu???

1 I do a course in it and practice for a minimum of 3-4 hours a day and usualy more.

2 I have very few friends left as i never have anything other than kung fu to talk about.

3 The girl im dating obviously thinks im a little insane and the weapons on my bedroom door give her the creeps.

4 Im not working at the moment but im looking for a job and the my compleate wish list includes - hours that still let me attend class.

5 Old people in Chinatown are starting to recognise me.

6 My master knows EVERYONE so most of my contacts are now also in the kung fu world.

7 Several of my better friends are kung fu instructors

8 Ive never learnt any chinese formaly but im picking it up at a rate of knots.

9 I have Yum Cha several times a week with other students and my sifu.

10 People KEEP thinking i speak chinese dispite obviously being a westener. I get constant questions IN Chinese from Chinese tourists and they still look supprised when i motion i dont understand them.

11 My best friend...
I drive an hour to go and see him and then when i do we spend the rest of the day belting each other up.

12 When i play fighting games on PS2 i get angry becouse i cant simply enter the game and fight the way 'I' would.

13 I still answer the posts by trolls

14 The majority of the people i hang out with are Chinese and i spend most of my time in Chinatown. Im becomming an egg :(

15 I read profiles of anyone i like a comment of and then spend the rest of the day wondering how they would fight.

16 I come here everyday and usualy several times, for some reason i seem to think if i dont check the boards every few hours the world may come to an end.

17 I hit EVERYTHING, as i walk along i punch walls, poles, signs, walk signals, lamp posts, trees - if its in my path it will proberly cop a hit. Ive even learnt to do it so hardly anyone notices :rolleyes:

18 I look around at my surroundings and try and work out Jacky Chan inspired stunts i could pull off.

19 I walk strait though the middle of large groups of guys - i simply dont care anymore:(

20 I seem to be constantly flexing my forearms, when im not making tiger claws im spinning my wrists around.

21 I have loads of weapons in my room, i found out today this is NOT a way to impress women :(

22 My dogs are both scared of me and are sick of being 'sparred'

23 All the movies I watch are Chinese and i have over 30 HK
action films on DVD:D

24 Ive broken all of the punching bags ive ever owned, the last one tore in half after a side kick... pffft knew i should have got leather:rolleyes:

25 I have gotten to number 25 and could easily keep going...
For eg
My martial arts book collection
My collection of ornamental dragons
My total inbility to hold a converstation with someone without at some point relating it to kung fu.
The fact i seem to now enjoy being hit
I like watching old men move slowly

What do you guys recon, am I obsessed?

[Chinwoo-er]

You know, before this minute, I thought I was obsessed. Now I know what it means to be obsessed.

Although I could apply most of what you have said onto my own life, I bow down to you jon. For you have gone way beyond my league. You should either see disiples following your devotion or a doctor.

But there is something I have done which I see you have not. I have avoided a romantic relationship all my life because i know it will take up the valuable training time I need. I have avoided video games, parties, celebrations, etc too for the same reason.

Your humble servent

Chinwoo-er

[Arhat of Fury]

BALANCE..... Danielson.... BALANCE
(insert yelling Pat Morita voice)

[Tae Li]

Iim jealous...my obsession has become quite pathetic.. BUT NO ONE beats my obsession with Jet Li, and EVERYONE on this forum knows that... so take that!!!!!

plus, my so called on again off again Boyfriend is as Chinese as they get cos he is from HK, but in aust now. plus im taking mandorin class at uni...plus i can use chopsticks...ok thats a dumb one but still, its a skill you know...for a westerner.


Tae Li;)

[jon]

Tae Li
"BUT NO ONE beats my obsession with Jet Li, and EVERYONE on this forum knows that... so take that!!!!!"
* He is all yours :)
Leave me Han_Jing and ill be happy :)

"my so called on again off again Boyfriend is as Chinese as they get cos he is from HK"
* Hehe that makes him a Honky not a Chinese;) Does he wear heaps of Jag and CK too:p

"plus im taking mandorin class at uni"
* You are lucky :( Ive tried before but i was young and didnt have the attension span. Starting to need it, my sifus English is not exactly first rate.

"plus i can use chopsticks...ok thats a dumb one but still, its a skill you know...for a westerner. "
* lol, im developing the full bowl to mouth shovel rice effect like a real Chinese... Ive even eaten a chickens foot... A CHICKENS FOOT I TELL YA!!!
Im also trying to figure out how to fight using chopsticks:)


Next time you see me i will proberly be dressed in silk carrying a sword and talking like a taoist :rolleyes: Not much a change really:p

Gawd i need help!

Least the new girl likes my forearms i guess:D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon,

You truely live your life like a B grade Shaw Brothers movie coming to life. You've even got a sifu who speaks very bad english. Why not ask him / her to take english lessons rather than you study chinese, or mime in chinese but speak in english.

Do you relate well to the main character in the movie Kung Pow or better still the fighting cow?

[dezhen2001]

Jon: have you ever tried ducks feet? or baby octopus?
Very Nice! :)

Ego: how can you 'mime in Chinese':confused:

david

[nightair]

Martial arts is a lifstyle not a sport, you can't get too obsessed you do what you have to do, and if people don't understand that then too bad for them, all my friends and family know that that is my life and they will never try to hinder it in every way, I would give up all my material possesions and live in the forest if it was requiered of me, and I really hope that I am not the last one that understands this. We need to keep the spirit alive and not let it die. This is our job to keep at least one thing just like it was. There is a reason it was so strict in the old days and now everyone trys to change everything in martial arts, that is why real harcore people like the stereotypical old-guy-in-the-park probably will never reaveal that he trains because he knows what will happen to the art if he trains anyone other than his children and grandchildren. The world makes a industry out of whatever they come across. I mean how many of you teachers here teach for free, every time I come across someone who knows something they always want to charge me and that shows what has happend to the art forms.

[Chinwoo-er]

Nightair, while I admire your devotion and spirit, I find it rather hard for me to believe in the practicality of what you are talking about. I agree to basically all the ideals you have said. but at the end of the day, we are still living in a civilized ( acutally, "modern" would be a better word ) world. And in this world, we still need to put food on the table, roof over our head and clothes on our body. And I really don't see going out and living in the woods all alone will be valid unless you have a goldmine to support you.

True, given the availiable conditions, I have no doubt that i will do the same, but reality stands that it is not possible.

Which lead me back to my original question. What place would you put MA ? On a practical level. Not an ideal level. To be honest and with utmost respect, I really doubt that you will be willing to give up ALL you material poccessions as this in itself will stop you from your common daily life. If you don't have the fundamentals of a surviving being, there is not much point to talk about martial arts. For one cannot train if one is not fed and warm.

[dezhen2001]

but if your Sifu teaches for a 'living' then he has to charge something to make ends meet. Not in the McDojo sense, but in the sense that it is his 'life' he does nothing else.

Just because you have to pay money doesn't mean the skill is diluted. It means you have to help your Sifu! Who knows what the traditional way is? There is a saying 'you never get something for nothing'. Do you think someone would teach you their skill - that they have spent their life practising and perfecting for nothing? Whether you have to pay by money or 'pay' by doing something else is a common way of doing this.

In my own case, as i am poor, i pay by doing other things for my Sifu. Of course, if i can help him in any way, i would gladly do it...

It only becomes an industry if you succumb to the lure of the Green Qi. If not, you can still run a good school and make ends meet. The key is the balance. Not too expensive, but enough to live from. It's a difficult thing. Especially when most people think of you as providing THEM a 'service' (a class they can come and go to at will)!

Martial arts is a lifstyle not a sport <--- depends on what you are doing and your attitude towards it.

david

[nightair]

NO, I understand that we need to support familys and pay taxes but what I'm saying is I would only if necesary , Im saying that given the situation I would drop other things, yes I have other things I do(carrer wise) but they are only there to help me later meet martial goals in my life.
Dezhen2001-There is nothing wrong with paying your sifu. I would not ming helping him in any way but I'm talking about in general how martial arts has just become a huge industry . I feel that it is selfish if you practice and train your whole life for your own benefit ,you should train to be able to pass it on to the next generation, there true payment should be that they led you on the "way" and that when they die they know that you will succed as they have by keeping the original alive. Not teaching little kids how to defend themselves from a school bully, but keeping something sacred. And you said "it depends on what you are doing and your attitude towards it"exactly we should all have the same attitude about it. reching whatever it is that pushes us. Not to get a trophy it is much deeper thatn that and you all know it. There is no words that can describe the mysterious force that pushes us and I hope that it is not necesary to describe it because you shuold all already know what I am talking about. Some people say that it is all of the masters that have passed just trying to remind us what we all ned to accomplish. Like that Japanese kanji Keiko,"to meditate upon the old."I know a lot of you refuse to apreciate martial arts as a whole but research that word.
Chinwoo-er-I'm just saying that martial arts should be what you eat sleep and breathe.It is more than just being at the dojo. A person who paints is not just an artist when he has a brush in his hand. Martial arts is my common daily life. It is just like those people that do horrible stuff all week and then they go to church on sunday and think that they are doing ok.Martial arts can be applied to everything.Some people work there whole life to retire and "travel the world, or go fishing all of the time, or go see more of nature" why do you have to work all of your life first why don't you just go that path in the first place. I can't see how anyone can stay in the same place their whole life and call it a life. Same with martial arts everyculture has had some form of hand to hand combat why not try to understand all of them while keeping devotion to your chosen art. And I am being honest and I mean no disrespect to anyone, I would give up all of my material possesions if neccesary to continue on the "way"

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

dezhen2001: you mime chinese by mouthing chinese words but speaking in english - thats out of sync with the movements of your mouth.

So, you're another sucker who does chores for sifu, there're lots of them i've come across on this forum.

You're also saying that good sifus can charge a fee that's not too expensive to make ends meet. Can't you have a rich instructor who's good. Must they be poor and accept the chores student does for him. This is so sterotypical of kungfu pop culture it makes me sick.

nightair: what rubbish you speak to say that kungfu is a way of life. Fighters in the days of old did it for a living, be it a General in the Northern Army, elite guards on the silk road or insurgent movements amongst hung gar practitioners. Kung fu was their occupation, now people like you do it as a hobby. Way of life is just rubbish.

[dezhen2001]

to Ego:

you don't know me, know my background or anything about me! just like i don't know about you. Who are you to judge what i do or don't do? I hope that you feel much better now for taking out your aggression on me through the internet though :)

In my post the reference to miming Chinese was just a joke. Sorry you don't get my sense of humour.

I also never said anything about an instructor not being allowed to be rich. You can still have quality instruction and a successful, flourishing school. Charging the correct price is just good business sense. ie: not too expensive, or too cheap. Like i said in my original post.

I do things for my Sifu because i appreaciate his instruction but can't afford the price for class (being a student form a family with poor income and living on only a student loan sucks)... also because i respect him and would like to help him any way i can. He doesn't ask me to do them for him (as i'm quite sure he's capable himself), but sometimes i take the initiative. There's nothing wrong with that is there? Or should i give up on the idea of training and developing myself because me and my family have no money?

People train for different reasons. Again, who are you to judge them?

to nightair:

some of the thoughts i have and reasons i have are similar to your own :) But like i said above, people train for different reasons. Maybe some want to train so they can win competitions, others for health, self protection, all of the above, none of the above... so many different things. I think it's a good thing that people are interested in training martial arts, whatever the reason. They always change the further down the line you go anyway. I'm sure if you examine your initial reasons for training, they will not be the same as your reasons now? (of course i could be wrong :p)

david

[Tae Li]

boys boys boys... relax... we are all obsessive lunatics in our own way.

ok, now follow these instructions:

1. breath in.

2. breath out.

3. breath in.

4. breath out.

simple really.

Tae Li
;)

[dezhen2001]

hi Tae Li, you're right - we are all obsessive lunatics :D

Don't worry, everything's cool. I'm sure Ego and i (as well as everyone else) can have a healthy discussion without resorting to name calling and personal comments :)

Have you seen the new Jet Li website? Infact, i'm sure you already have ;) Looks kinda cool with the updates and new homepage,

david

[nightair]

Ego you don't know me so don't make assumptions about me.
dezhen-Yeah I see what you are saying .Nothing is "still" in this universe. and the reasons I started to train are different from my reasons now.Don't try to change the subject you big P00 P00 head:D :) LOL What part of the UK are you from, if you don't mind my asking.

[dezhen2001]

i'm originally from Scotland but study in England now (Midlands).
poo-Poo head: i haven't used that since i was a kid :D

david

[Tae Li]

Originally posted by dezhen2001
hi Tae Li, you're right - we are all obsessive lunatics :D

Don't worry, everything's cool. I'm sure Ego and i (as well as everyone else) can have a healthy discussion without resorting to name calling and personal comments :)

Have you seen the new Jet Li website? Infact, i'm sure you already have ;) Looks kinda cool with the updates and new homepage,

david

Are u kidding? of course i have!!!!

I was on the forum all of last night, and i got another thread going hoping for a new record!! lol, i reckon i can do it.

didnt know u are a fan also.... COOL! HEY YOU SHOULD POST ON MY THREAD!!!

Tae Li;)

[Skarbromantis]

Jon : That was one of the best post's i've ever read
here ...i printed it and have it on my cube at work,
Jez... i gotta work harder

Skard1

[jon]

Skarbromantis
hehe thanks dude, im glad at least my obsession struck a cord with you:D

Ego_Extrodinaire
My old friend how you been?

"Jon, You truely live your life like a B grade Shaw Brothers movie coming to life."
* Nah i wish, they got to fight a lot more than i do:(

"You've even got a sifu who speaks very bad english. Why not ask him / her to take english lessons rather than you study chinese, or mime in chinese but speak in english. "
* I would but somehow i cant see myself changing my sifus life style just to make my life a little easyer. That would be kinda slack dont you think? His english is pretty decent really, i cant expect more and i wouldnt ask it.

"Do you relate well to the main character in the movie Kung Pow or better still the fighting cow?"
* I havent seen it but yes!
Im exactly like the cow, i even have udders and stuff, plus i do a mean cow kick.

"So, you're another sucker who does chores for sifu, there're lots of them i've come across on this forum."
* You dont even have a sifu Ego, no one would want you as a student. Doing chores is not an issue when they wont give you the time of day in the first place.

dezhen2001
"Jon: have you ever tried ducks feet? or baby octopus?
Very Nice!"
* Not that im aware of, then again ive eaten a lot of things over the last few months that i had no idea what they were. "Here good food" and then i have something stuffed in my mouth.
Ive nearly thrown up more times than i can count lately:(
I have a weak stomach for such things, i dont think i would eat either if i KNEW what i was eating:rolleyes:

Chinwoo-er
* I think your right, i do need a doctor :(
Then again there is no anti botic for kung fu addiction and thats gonna really throw off the local medical centre. They give antibotics no matter what you say:eek:

Tae Li
* You made me hyperventilate, im not happy with you:mad:

BTW everyone Ego is just a troll, although he can sometimes kick start a good debate if you give him a chance.
Pretty soon he will come out with the northern vs southern arguement or try and give us maths equations for why a particular system is inferrior to another.

[jon]

P.S
Speaking of my sifu learning English reminded me of something...
Kinda abstract relation but never the less.

We had a lion dance the other week and on the way there i drove and gave my simo (sifus wife) a lift along with a few other students. Her English was quite good and we got into a conversation.
Of all the things to discuss somehow the topic turns to Chinese immigration into Australia and what parts of culture have and havent been asimilated. It then turns to what areas the Chinese have inhabbited during Australian modern history. Then (god forbid) of course the topic turns to the current state of imigration and:eek: the number variations. Then finaly on to what should and shouldnt be done with regards...

If you ever wanna REALLY walk a fine line follow my lead and have a coverstation like this with the wife of your instructor.

I think i passed that particular test but it was much worse than any kung fu examination:(

[red_fists]

I think i passed that particular test but it was much worse than any kung fu examination:(

We are tested in many ways and methods by our Sifu and peers.

The toughest and most important Tests are often not done in the training area or even related to the material we study.

Just my Opinion.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon:

You're becoming sifu's personal servant. Ask sifu about why there was no record of the deadly southern styles amongst chinese immigrants but plently of stories about how they where victimized by the locals during the gold rush in Australia.

Does doing chores make you a better fighter?

dezhen2001:

that's up to you. you could find a job with the free time that you have rather than slaving for sifu.

[jon]

Ego_Extrodinaire

"You're becoming sifu's personal servant."
* Good read Ego your powers of deduction still make Sherlock Holmes look pale by comparison!

"Ask sifu about why there was no record of the deadly southern styles amongst chinese immigrants but plently of stories about how they where victimized by the locals during the gold rush in Australia. "
* How am i meant to ask him all that? I have enough trouble asking him about my training. Still why not go see some of the Sydney southern masters Ego? Im sure they will welcome you with open arms, you could challenge them Ego, im sure with your skills you would come out on top.

"Does doing chores make you a better fighter?"
* It does if it pleases your sifu enough to teach you extra;)


Come on Ego your trolling is starting to show signs of falling by the wayside.
You need a new angle or something:D

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon:

becoming sifu's servant to learn kung fu should not be necessary -not to mention downright demeaning.

I'm taking piano lessons now. I pay my fees and my instructor teaches me piano. I have a nurse whome i pay and she does her duties. I work at a lab, do my hours and get paid. That's how the world operates and has been this way for a long time.

When i get a chance, i'll come to sydney and put aside a couple of days to see the kung fu schools there. but it's a long flight from the States.

You really shouldn't need to please sifu to teach you more. Fees should suffice. Teachers should be impartial in the way they treat students.

and you call this trolling!

[friday]

hahaha...hey jon how r u??

really enjoy your comments :)

u gotta feel sorry for the guy though...i mean i wish he had better things to do but...sigh...;)

how is the training going with your ba gua sifu?

[jon]

Ego_Extrodinaire
"becoming sifu's servant to learn kung fu should not be necessary -not to mention downright demeaning."
* I would be inclined to agree with you here, then again there is nothing wrong with showing someone your appreciation for the effort they have put in. I dont consider myself a servent to anyone but if either of my sifu ever have something they need ill jump at the chance to help.
This go's though performing right down to helping move.

"I'm taking piano lessons now. I pay my fees and my instructor teaches me piano. I have a nurse whome i pay and she does her duties. I work at a lab, do my hours and get paid. That's how the world operates and has been this way for a long time. "
* When your pleased with your piano or if your nurse has been doing a great job above and beyond her call would you not like to show your appreciation?
Besides if you knew what i pay to learn for four hours a day you would neck yourself! I feel like im ripping my sifu off not the other way around...

"When i get a chance, i'll come to sydney and put aside a couple of days to see the kung fu schools there. but it's a long flight from the States. "
* Come on we saw the site;) You live right here in Aus i think and your welcome at any of my places of training anytime you wish. If you really are in the states (which i HIGHLY doubt) then feel free to look me up when you get here, ill make sure its worth your while.

"You really shouldn't need to please sifu to teach you more. Fees should suffice. Teachers should be impartial in the way they treat students. "
* This is kinda dependent on what you wish to learn, your sifu may teach you the movements for a set fee but after you can 'perform' them his\her obligation is at an end. If what you wish is to know the true 'secrets' behind the movements then he\she is only ever going to show you what they wish. Hence being in good favor with your sifu becomes vital.
Im not a rich man but im taught a lot by two respected sifus, i dont have to beg. I do have to maintain a few things other than finacial imput. I learn becouse i train hard and i get the results they demand.

"and you call this trolling!"
* Cant you see im just teasing, its my nature Ego;)

[jon]

friday

Hi friday
Ive been well and Bagua is going great, ive actualy just started Tai Chi with him as well.
Wish someone had told me previously how bloody good Tai Chi is in combat. Im learning a movement then learning the application strait away and its blowing my mind. So well structured and so darn smart.
The other things that hit me with it (bear in mind this is pre 50's Tai Chi) is how darn hard it is.
I spent over an hour on trying to learn to move my hips right in one movement :(

Bagua is still going great and ive finished learning the form so im now onto refining it and working practical applications.
Ive been training everyday solidly for a couple of months now and my legs are simply starting to ACHE and so is my back :(
Im gonna try and take it easy for the next few lessons or else im going to burn out.

How is your Pak Hok pai going?
Would be great to meet up with you sometime if your interested?
Drop me a pm or something if your keen and we can work something out sometime.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Jon:

"This is kinda dependent on what you wish to learn, your sifu may teach you the movements for a set fee but after you can 'perform' them his\her obligation is at an end."

That's quite an unusual arrangement! But its possible if the school is not about learning self defence.

"If what you wish is to know the true 'secrets' behind the movements then he\she is only ever going to show you what they wish. Hence being in good favor with your sifu becomes vital."

I'm not saying you be rude, just that going out of the way to do things is unnecessary. Sure i would complement the instructor if the class is well run and be polite on a social basis - but i think we do not have to extend beyond what's required of us in the modern social context be it learning a musical instrument or kung fu.

"Im not a rich man but im taught a lot by two respected sifus, i dont have to beg. I do have to maintain a few things other than finacial imput. I learn becouse i train hard and i get the results they demand. "

It's not about being rich or poor which are relative measures anyway. It's about absolutes - knowing what you get for the amount you paid! I hope i've made the distinction clear.

[jon]

Ego_Extrodinaire
"I hope i've made the distinction clear."
* As per usual Ego... Clear as mud!

[dezhen2001]

Ego:

doing a few things here or there to help someone is not exactly 'slaving'. If anyone i am close to needs help, and i can help them, then i will...

I think 2 jobs are enough as well as trying to train and study in my final year of a degree - don't you? I had 3 for a while, but that didn't leave enough time for study!

Again, you don't know my position and what's happening in my life. So how can you judge me? Sure, i agree that being someones relative slave is wrong, but helping someone just because you can is not.

Teachers should be impartial in the way they treat students

They should be, but human nature being what it is always manages to screw up absolutes.

Again you make reference to this whole Northern/Southern argument that you had before......:eek:

Jon:

Taijiquan is really cool! :) Hopefully i'll learn it from my Sifu someday (when i finally get to grips with RH's babe). From what i've seen it's very useful in combat - just most people either don't know that, or don't teach it.

I have a weak stomach for such things

i'm completely the opposite thankfully:D I like to eat anything, then worry about what it is after...

well, take it easy
david

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

dezhen2001

But going out of your way to help should be unnecessary. if doing so is required to learn the "secrets" of kung fu then the teacher is most likely a fraud.

Good teachers would be impartial because the human factor should not be a significant influence. professional teachers are trained that way.

Does your sifu conduct him/her self professionally? if not probably best to out with the old and in with the new! Don't you know that tennis players sack their coaches from time to time? Players learn the secrets from the dollars that they pay.

[dezhen2001]

Hi Ego,

sure my Sifu is a professional... that's one of the reasons i fell lucky to have found him! Martial Arts is his 'business' if you like, that's all he does. But again, there are many good teachers who only teach part time, just as there are many bad teachers who teach for their living. It depends on the person.

I agree with what you have said, if you have to/are expected to be his servant so that you can learn more, then it is bullocks! If you help because you appreaciate what he has given you, and just because you can - that's a totally different matter.

i find this discussion quite interesting. It's brought up some good points about what people expect from a teacher and also a student :)

david