extrajoseph

[RAIN]

extrajoseph :

if you got time . can you help me with the literal translationes of this techniques ?

thank you brother





yat ji choy
ping choy
chung choy
chop jerng
toi jerng
wai toi jerng
yat ji kiu sao
naw sao
ji tai sao
fung kiu
chang kiu

[extrajoseph]

RAIN,

Love to help you out but I think it would be better if the translation is coming from LKH line as many of the names may have a special meaning to them.

JosephX

[RAIN]

thank you and sorry for use you for make my home work .
the terms belong to hung gar and i seraching for translationes in a dicctionary but the most time the spelling are not founded in the dictionary .

there is a good method for make translationes and find the correct term for a kung fu technique ?

[BearBear]

.

[Sho]

Maybe you're asking the wrong questions. :D

There are countless ways to spell Cantonese words. You should get the pinyins or the actual Chinese characters for those words to get an exact translation.

Even though many southern arts share a variety of same terms, it's always preferable to know the meaning corresponding to the particular art, in your case, Hung Gar.

The best solution would be to ask your sifu.

[CLFNole]

The problem that generally arises is that there are many ways to say the same technique in chinese and certain terms are unique to certain branches.

I know that Chan Yong Fa's people use the term "dat choy" for what my line (Lee Koon Hung) calls "bien choy". Minor name differences but the same technique.

You also see this with "pek choy" as some also refer to this as "chin gi choy".

Maybe try to find an hung gar sifu from that branch and ask him becuase the terminology is likely somewhat unique to hung gar.

Peace.

[extrajoseph]

It helps sometimes to get a friend who knows Chinese to work out the exact meaning of these terms. Take the 2 examples mentioned by CLFNole: “dat choy” v “bien choy” and “pek choy” v “chin gi choy”.

The word “dat” means to whip or to flog. The word “bien” means a whip, so “dat choy” and “bien choy” have much the same meaning with "dat" to act like a whip and "bien" to whip.

However, there are differences if look at the meanings for “pek” and “chin gi”. The word “pek” means to split or to cleave as in “pek chai” - to split a piece of wood with an axe. The term “chin gi” means the Chinese character for "thousand" (1,000). To write the character with a brush, the first stroke goes from right to left with a slightly downward and diagonal movement.

So strictly speaking, “pek choy” is to strike vertically downward with a force that splits like using an axe to chop wood by sinking your body and your stance (“tun sei ping ma”), whereas “chin gi choy” is to strike from right to left with a slightly downward and diagonal movement by turning your body as well as sinking your qi. One goes from top to bottom while the other goes from side to side.

[Sho]

Originally posted by CLFNole
I know that Chan Yong Fa's people use the term "dat choy" for what my line (Lee Koon Hung) calls "bien choy". Minor name differences but the same technique.

You also see this with "pek choy" as some also refer to this as "chin gi choy". Interesting..

[CLFNole]

Extrajoseph:

That brings up another interesting point. Although you stated that "pek choy" comes from top to bottom so to speak I always see people demonstrate it like a "chin gi choy" kind of diagonal from right to left. I know my tai sing pek kwar friends kind of do it from right to left sometimes sideways and sometimes diagonal (somewhat similar to our CLF sow choy).

LKH referred to the high to low technique as Pau Choy (not sure if i got it 100% right), what would that translate to?

Peace.

[extrajoseph]

I have LKH’s “CLF - The Dynamic Art of Fighting” (published by LKH in 1983) in front of me. Pages 76 – 84 showed a couple of vertical smash strikes from high to low. The first one where he striked using the knuckles is what we would called a “cup choy” and the second one he called “hammer strike” is what we would called “pek choy”. May be my “pek choy” and your “pau choy” are the same thing. I have to see the character for "pau" before I can comment.

The upward strike showed in pages 74 – 75 is what we would call a “pow choy”; “pow” means to throw an object upward.

“Chin gi choy” is not showed in the book. We do a combo called “chin gi, bil jon” where we block with a right strike using the larger of the 2 bones in our forearm (palm facing up) from right to left diagonally downward (chin gi) then follow through with a upward diagonal counter strike (bil jon) using the “charp choy” turned upward (ie palm also facing up).

Since I don’t do ”tai sing pek gwar”, I don’t know their terms well enough to comment. May be they do a “pek choy” diagonally, but when we do that we called it “chin gi” to distinguish the vertical from the diagonal movement of the arm. In "chin gi" the palm is turned upward, in "sow choy" the palm is facing downward.

We may do a diagonal "pek" from left to right using the right hand but we called it "gwa pek" which really is a "gwa choy" done with "pek" or to split opn intention. When we do it horizontally we called it "pek dat" or "bian pek".

Hope this helps to clarify things a little.

Peace.

[BearBear]

Hello rain,

yat ji choy
ping choy
chung choy
chop jerng
toi jerng
wai toi jerng
yat ji kiu sao
naw sao
ji tai sao
fung kiu
chang kiu


im unsure of some ofthe romanisations and also some ofthe actualy terms so i don't wish to make a guess incase im totally off but a couple i know for sure..

ping choy - horizontal forefist thrust (punsh)

yat ji kiu sao - 1 finger (palm) bridge hand (the forefinger is pointed with the other 3 fingers bent palm as seen in many hung gar forms breathing sections)

good luck

fung kiu - sweeping bridge *maybe*

[CLFNole]

Extrajoseph:

We also refer to the cup choy in the manner you mentioned. We use a lot of chin ji biu jong in our forms usually in the combo gwa choy chin ji biu jong.

I guess than our paw choy is the same as what you call pek choy. I don't know the chinese symbol I would have to ask the wife or my uncle.

I was wondering if you knew the name of the chop choy "panther fist" technique when the palm is facing upwards example striking under the opponents chin to his throat. Is that call a particular type of chop choy?

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

You see this combo in our forms a lot:

Gwa Chui-Cum Jeung, Chin Ji Chui, Biu Jong

The Chan Family Pek Chui and the LKH Pau Chui (actually sounds more like Pol Chui) for all intents and purposes appear to be the same technique.

I've noticed in the Chan Family CLF they use the same techs but the formation of the hands might be slightly different.

Examples:

In our Biu Jong we use a closed fist not a panther fist.

In our Cheung Ahn Chui we use panther fist where as Chan Family uses a "Ginger Fist."

These appear to be minor stylistic differences.

Question: Is the character Biu (or Bil ) in Biu Jong the same as the character in Biu Ji?

Thanks

[extrajoseph]

CLFNole,

It is called "kong jeung".


Fu-Pow,

Biu jong can be done in both types of fists, cheng ahn chui also. The hand formation can vary according to the situation. Biu in biu jong and biu ji is the same, it means to charge forward.

[CLFNole]

Extrajoseph:

What I know as kong jeung is something different. Wouldn't jeung imply a palm technique?

Peace.

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

I think Kong Jeung is a palm as well. The panther fist with the palm facing upwards is used in the 5 Wheel Fist. I foget what it's called.

[extrajoseph]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Extrajoseph:
I was wondering if you knew the name of the chop choy "panther fist" technique when the palm is facing upwards example striking under the opponents chin to his throat. Is that call a particular type of chop choy?
Peace.

If it is done with a charp or chop choy with the palm turned up then it would be a biu jong or biu charp. With the right hand, when we charp with the palm facing left and thumb up it is called yeung charp, with the palm facing left and thumb down it is called yum charp, with the palm facing down and thumb to the left it is called ping charp (or cheng ahn if going for the eyes) and with the palm facing up and thumb to the right it is called biu charp or biu jong. When we rotate the charp to get better penetration it is called law si (screw) charp.

I thought you were talking about a palm technique striking at the chin and the throat, that is why I mentioned kong jeung and pao jeung. To kong is block with the opposite hand upward while to pao is to block with the opposite hand downward.

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

extrajoseph,

yes that is right. When we go over the forms together in class sifu lane calls the names of the moves out. I think it was biu charp or choy/jong, can't remember to well I havn't been to the kwoon in a few months coz of work.

Isn't the corkscrew called loi yum? this is used in the 5 wheel fist a lot as well.

[CLFNole]

Extrajoseph:

The other charp choy's I knew it was biu charp that I didn't know the name for.

Thanks

[extrajoseph]

GA,

Yes, loi yum is a corkscrew yum charp aiming for the lower part of the body, it goes with the 3 combo of gwa choy, cheng ahn and loi yum (block, hit high and hit low). Better get back to traing soon before you forget ng lun ma and ng lun chui. You know what they say: all work and no play makes golden armour dull! ;)