Tkd Is Superior To Wc!!!

[rogue]

Just doing my part to bring my Wing Chun cousins closer together!:D

[old jong]

Superior????? You mean you kick at a superior altitude? Is that it? ;) :D

[Roy D. Anthony]

You're right, Tae Kwon Do is superior to Wing Chun......as a sport.:)

[neito]

i'm afraid that both tkd and wing chun schools often suck because they advertise with the " tkd/wc is the right activity for everyone" in order to get more students. this of course is not true. tkd kicks are great but not suited to those who are out of shape or uncordinated. likewise wing chun techniques are not suited to those who lack the capacity to concentrate on perfect technique. what i'm saying is that its rare that a style is bad its just people who don't match themselves to the right style. unfortunatly many tkd and wc schools seem to be victems of this.
both the tkd school i trained in and the wc school i go to now have good instuctors, but its the students that make the school suck.

[Matrix]

TKD does not get respect because, in general, they are belt factories that are willing to hand out Black Belts to children who cannot even tie their own shoes.

Having said this, you are correct, that there are some TKD guys are are very good fighters, but they are IMHO the exception rather than the rule. For every one of the skilled TKD people there are 100 weak players. I am willing to bet that these same individuals would excel in most martial arts. They do well because of their atheletic ability rather than the strength of the system they are training in.

I challenge your statement that they could beat most WC guys. Either you have seen exceptional TKD schools or pathetic WC schools, but I would say than on the average WC guys are much stronger than TKD guys, especially at the senior levels.

In fact, that was one of the main things that attracted me to my current school. I was impressed by the depth of skill of the senior students. In my mind it was a great refelction of my sifu. On the otherhand I was discouraged by the senior TKD guys. Most were pathetic, who had just put time in the system and paid for the belts. Quite sad really.

For the record, I have experience on the dark side ;)

Matrix

[Matrix]

The students are the reflection of the instructor. Great teachers are not those with the most knowledge, but rather they are the ones who can impart the most knowledge to their students. They should inspire their students to achieve their best. My sifu has told us on several occasions that he is not interested in teaching us to be mediocre, and if we are not willing to strive for more, we should leave. :cool:

Your observation about the students in your past and present school is most worrisome and discouraging. I would look elsewhere if I were you.

Matrix

[Tongue_of_Colibob]

TKD is the Rodney Dangerfield of martial arts.

"I get no respect!"

[Matrix]

Respect is earned, not given.

Matrix

[vingtsunstudent]

oh rogue, you loveable rogue you:p
vts

[yuanfen]

TKD is superior!!!!! OTOH/...they are? heehee OTOH- One should never underestimate the other fella- no matter which art they come from. hee hee

[anerlich]

It's a big world. One man's meat is another's poison. If TKD didn't have value to some people, it wouldn't survive.

Just do what you want and let other people do what they want. If you feel you have to put them down, that's your problem, not theirs.

[Matrix]

You may remember a recent thread where I was taken to task for even calling some of these other arts "martial arts". I have trained in TKD for 6 years, and have seen all matter of players. Very fast, hard hitting, fighters and pathetic wimps (all Black Belts). I have stated before that I have respect for individuals within these others arts, and will continue to do so. To underestimate your opponent is a serious mistake. Forget your preconceived notions of being all to "wipe the floor" with the dude from style "X". You may be surprised. ;)

Having said this, I believe that Wing Chun is a superior art. That of course is one man's perspective. And I totally agree that we should judge WC a tad harsher. We would also do well to do the same to ourselves and our own training.

I remember seeing a sihing of mine showing a junior student how to block a TKD or Mauy Tai roundhouse kick. In my experience anyone attempting that strategy would be eating shin in short order. Fortunately my sifu offer a much superior approach. But I digress.......:)

Matrix


P.S. Just what are you filling those big cups with? ;)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by anerlich
It's a big world. One man's meat is another's poison. If TKD didn't have value to some people, it wouldn't survive. McDonald's has hundreds of millions of patrons all around the world, that doesn't mean that they are serving good food. Would you like fries with that?

Matrix

[old jong]

Like any styles of m.a.,it depends on the practitionner. I know a guy in Montreal(his name is Ferrere Clerveaux sixth degree bb)) who can get you with an ax kick faster than your eyes can blink! One of my friends who is a student of his (third degree bb)could litteraly break you in half with his counter back kick. Do I have to say that Ferrere's school (dojang) is not a belt factory? ;)

[Matrix]

I know some TKD guys like the two you've described. Unfortunately, in my experience, these tend to be talented individuals. I find it disturbing that most TKD Black Belts are of weaker substance. TKD lacks the quality control, IMHO, and that only serves to cast the whole art under the same bad reputation.

By the way, the ax kick is a high-risk attack, except for the most skilled players.

--Matrix

[old jong]

I know Matrix...That's why I'm mentionning individuals here. Some can make techniques like the ax kick work well for them but it is not the norm. An art like TKD depends a lot on the physical condition and on some natural physical predispositions or gifts of the practitionner. A perfect TKDer can kick you from the other side of the room and is fast as lightning! Not the everyday guy!

[Matrix]

Hey Empty Cup,

I strongly suspected that was the answer ;) .

Matrix

[Matrix]

Exactly. TKD relies on being stronger and faster than your opponent. The more advanced techniques are much riskier to use in a confrontation, because if you miss, you're hung out to dry. Your average TKD'er is not able to effectively use these techiques. An ax kick is a sure way to end up crashing to the ground on your head for the average joe (no relation to Martial). All the opponent needs to do is step inside and chop down the tree.

Matrix

[Matrix]

And you thought I was just a pretty face :D

Matrix

[neito]

you are correct, i will be studying elsewhere as of may. too bad though i really like wing chun, but i just dont get much out of my school. i'll be probably studying at a place called green dragon kf group, under mark chan. they specialise in several southern systems. in three years i'm moving to tokyo where there are several wing chun schools so i should'nt be too dissapointed.

[Matrix]

Are there no other Wing Chun schools in Edmonton??
Well, at least you have a plan. Hopefully your time spent in Japan will be rewarding.

Peace,
Matrix

[neito]

there is one other but they dont have many hours available for training and its really expensive. the place i'm thinking of going is non-profit and holds classes 5 nights a week. the sifu has studied wing chun but i don't think he teaches it too much. he concentraits on his villages sil lum system.

[rogue]

Man you WC guys are funny, I put this thread out figuring you'd jump on me instead of each other and a good thread breaks out! ;)

"TKD relies on being stronger and faster than your opponent. The more advanced techniques are much riskier to use in a confrontation, because if you miss, you're hung out to dry. Your average TKD'er is not able to effectively use these techiques. "

Your statements are true to a certain extent.

"TKD relies on being stronger and faster than your opponent."
One the surface that's true, but in our school it's more about having better timing than your opponent, using the body to generate power and good technique.
I'm stronger than any of the female black belts at my school, but many of them still manage to land some hard shots on me. I think that almost every male black belt is younger, stronger and in many ways faster than our master, but when hard sparring he will find your weakness, read your timing and blast in.

For us, the way this is developed is by moderate sparring at every class, the goal is to be soft right until before you land your hit.

"The more advanced techniques are much riskier to use in a confrontation, because if you miss, you're hung out to dry. Your average TKD'er is not able to effectively use these techiques."

Well that depends upon if you're talking about the sport side of TKD or TKD the martial art. Most of those "advanced" techniques
are only good for sport style TKD.
On the street like most other good martial artists, a good TKD fighter(non-sport) will use the most direct means kick,strike,throw) to accomplish their goal. But most TKD schools these days concentrate on the sport rather than the martial art. And yes the average person(like me) could not perform an axe kick like Joon Rhee, then again I also can't skate like Scott Hamilton.

PS I think WC is a fine art.

[Matrix]

I agree with your comments on the importance of timing. Learning to read your opponent and pick just the right moment is essential in the sparring scenario you describe. But be warned, not everyone plays that way.

My objections to TKD are generalizations, as I have already stated, and tend to apply to the sport variety. Unfortunately, these people think that their sports "skills" are directly transferable to self-defence. Sorry, this is not the case, but I can see that you already know that. ;)

The sport has too many rules which train the student to do things, or not do things that would be dangerous in a self-defence situation.

For example:
No punching to the head
No grabbing.
No trapping of kicks
......and onward and downward we go.

If you train this way, you will react the same way in the street.

And you're right WC is a very fine art. :)
Having been on both sides of the fence on this issue, I'm sticking to the side that is greener.

Regards,
Matrix

[Zantesuken]

tkd is basically stealing from northern kung fus tyles like eagle and stuff. it's good but since there are so many mc clubs it's hard to find someone who can actually use pure tkd w/o cross training in something else

[rogue]

Hey Matrix so am I! :D I haven't sparred with my WC friends in a long while, I have to hook back up with them again and have some fun. We had a couple of kickboxers in the sparring group and they'd just maul everyone. They picked up that raising elbow block(the WC name escapes me) from the WC guys and the WC guys picked up some footwork.

Zantesuken,
TKD has a direct lineage to Shotokan. Now I have seen some mantis type work in several Korean arts but where did you hear about the eagle claw connection?

[Matrix]

Be careful about taking bits and pieces out of several styles. It sounds like you're referring Bong Sau. You really need to understand the nature of that hand, it changes quickly.


In any case, It sounds like you're having fun. That's great. :)

Enjoy it,
Matrix

[Zantesuken]

rogue it may not be eagle claw cause my cantonese translation is bad due to dropping out of chinese school in gr 2.

but yeah northern styles train the footwork more as wella s the hands where as southern styles are more hand work.

tkd i'm not sure it has it's roots in shotokan because karate has its root in shoalin. so it would make sense that that it would take form northern china which is now partly korea. so i guess it makes sense that they borrowed a lot of elements from it. go cma!

[mun hung]

Don't underestimate all TKDers. I have a few TKD friends who will knock you out cold if you're not too careful. They are not "sport fighters" and "will" punch you in the face.

IMO, it all boils down to who you're fighting and if they can apply what they have learned. I think it's a mistake to underestimate any kind of fighting art. They all have their merits. In fact, respect should be given to anyone with the will and guts to fight...period.

Have a nice day!