Bruce Lee and Wing Chun

[Peter Aarts]

Does anybody know what BL exactly has learned and from whom?

[edward]

bruce spent most of his time and studies with Wong shung leung and william chueng who intro'd him to the art. he got through 1st form and that's pretty much it..

[fgxpanzerz]

I've heard that Bruce Lee only learned up to Chum kiu and about 40 of the wooden man moves. He knew a few chi sao tricks.

[tri2bmt]

Bruce lees formal teacher was Yip Man. Bruce learned all three forms,(evident in his movies), specified on the Biu Jee form and regularily practiced the wooden man form. One misconception about Bruce LEe is that he wasn't properly trained. HE knew the system but didn't stay with his teacher long enough to learn the internal boxing style which is imbedded in true Wing Chun.
That is the only thing he neglected in his training. Maybe why he supplemented, he didn't know the "whole" system so to speak.

[old jong]

I see more of a TKD influence in his movies than wing chun! (sorry Rogue!) Specially when he kicks the lightbuld out! ;)

[red_fists]

Hi All.

Regardless of what BL learned or not learned.

I doubt that his or any other MA Actor's skill can truly be judged from their Movies.
Fighting in Movies is arranged, choreographed and designed to look good on Screen.

Actors are trained to look good on Film, and Action Stars are trained to make fighting look good on screen.

Said that a MA can be an Action Star but the skills do differ between on-screen fighting and real life MA fighting.
But an Action Star does not have to be a good MA in order to suceed on Screen.

We now return you to your scheduled programming.

[Sevan]

heh, I kinda like the way you use that term "improperly trained".

Mabey he wasnt "trained" according to all of WC or whatnot,
but what he was after was effectiveness and one thing is unarguable, he was very effective at handing out a can o' w00pa$$ no doubt

[raving_limerick]

"Mabey he wasnt "trained" according to all of WC or whatnot,
but what he was after was effectiveness and one thing is unarguable, he was very effective at handing out a can o' w00pa$$ no doubt"

Not to knock ol' moldering Brucie, but where do you get this evidence of his "effectivness"? The only "real" fight I ever heard of Bruce Lee being involved in was the fight with Wong Jack Man, and from what I've heard it was a pretty close fight, if not a narrow win for Wong Jack Man. The man had a lot of theories, but to be honest, they're probably the same theories that went into forming Wing Chun. After all, the system was specifically designed to teach villagers/red junk/revolutionary types how to fight in a quick and effective manner. So, what Bruce Lee espoused in his Jun Fan really wasn't anything more than an extereme view of a school of thought long prevalent in the Chinese martial world: Take what works, throw out what doesn't.

Just because you don't understand how circle walking works, or why you should make a phoneix-eye fist, doesn't mean that these aren't effective. It it simply means that you don't *understand* how to use them properly. The difference between the school of thought that says "Leave only effective weapons in the system" and Jeet Kune Do is, in my mind, JKD doesn't give you the time to understand the proper workings of a technique within the context of a system. There are exceptional practicioners within JKD, no doubt, but I think they'd be exceptional practicioners anyhow.

With regards to the training, Bruce's knowledge of Wing Chun WAS most certainly incomplete. There is no argument there. He didn't learn the full system- he didn't have an understanding of how all the pieces in the Wing Chun puzzle fit together. That is hardly a claim for effectiveness in my book.

But, the man did make some good movies... ::shrugs::

[CanadianBadAss]

Your a bif off there... Next time do a little research befor shooting your melthing off about brucy.
Jack man wong eh? so what, I bet theres not even a video of that one. I saw him take on samo hong in this sparring match. And I also watched him man handling chuck norris in some fight taped in rome. There is no question about bruces effectivness at handing out a can o' w00pa$$

[CanadianBadAss]

he really did fight those guys? i was just joking...

[raving_limerick]

". I saw him take on samo hong in this sparring match. And I also watched him man handling chuck norris in some fight taped in rome. There is no question about bruces effectivness at handing out a can o' w00pa$$"

I stand corrected. My appologies CanadianBadAss. I had never heard of this before, so I take back what I said earlier. If someone knows where I can see this, on or offline, lemme know. Live and learn, I suppose. As for the Wong Jack Man fight, I believe it was a challenge match, but so much is hazy in my mind about the details that it's almost not worth discussing. If anyone else has anything else to add, I'd like to hear it.

However, I still stand by my statements that Bruce didn't espouse anything new or revolutionary with Jeet Kune Do. ::Shrugs:: This is where it comes down to a matter of semmantics.

[Sleepflower]

Does that tape still exist? (the real fight not the movie)

[red_fists]

EmptyCup.

The fight between Jack and BL I see more as a way of proofing his Skill to show that he was worth teaching WC.

Can't remember the source, but in the older days whenever a new Instructor came to a village he had to apply to the village/community elders for permission to teach.
During the application he had to present his credentials, letters of reference, etc.

If there was already a Teacher in town or if the credentials were not to the likings of the Elders they could call for a "Test of Skills" to determine skill level.

Personally, I think this is what happened to Bruce, and by failing the Fight he was not given permission to teach with the sanctions of the local Chinese Community.

I think it was about permission ot teach in general and not just about teaching non-chinese.
Just my 2 Yen worth.

[red5angel]

According to WJM, bruce threw out a general challenge to anyone, saying there wasnt a man in china town he could not beat. The fight between them was arranged by a mutual friend

http://www.lakungfu.com/sifujackmanwong.html

[jmdrake]

Originally posted by EmptyCup
In any story such as this one there are three sides:

1 - Linda Lee Cadwell's version

2 - Dragon the Bruce Lee story version (which is also Linda's version)

3 - and the TRUER VERSION (which the link above me will take you :) )

knowing Bruce's personality, which seems more likely? That he humbly wanted to teach and had no choice but to fight for his right to, or that he just liked to shoot off his big mouth and challenge others?

And why do you believe that the Wong Jack Man version is the "truer" version? I've read that version before and it sound like BS to me. You would be more credible if you said the three versions were

1) The Bruce Lee angle (as told by Linda Lee and James M. Lee)

2) The Wong Jack Man version (per the link you gave)

3) What actually happened.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[Sabu]

How does one find truth?