Multiple attackers

[Nature Fist]

Ive been coming to this forum for years.. believe it or not.. i stoped for a while.. something i experienced i wanted to share with everybody.. alot of people say if your up against more then 1 attacker that it is almost impossible to actually defend yourself.. (well you get this mostly from bjj people) and some people laugh at the kung fu instructors who say people attack 1 at a time.. so its easy to defend yourself.. Now from my expereince they are not Entirely wrong.. what i think some of them mean is that attackers do not rush you at the same exact time.. they have to be at least 1 second apart and when your fighting 1 second is alot.. normly they wait until one of there friends starts the attack.. then they all join in.. but they dont all run in at the same exact milli second.. they are at least a couple of seconds behind.. (well unless they are maybe a group of martialartist that have practiced and have certain singles for them to all attack at the same exact time..) from what ive experienced they dont all attack at the same exact time.. and some of them who are closer to you obviously would reach you faster.. so taking in mind distance and unexperienced fighters whos cordination would have to give you at least 1 second difference in attacks.. They dont actually all attack at the same time.. But im sure there are cases when they all do.. but how often can this be?

- Nature fist

One thing i also forget to add that when conferonted with multiple attackers one should keep all of them infront of you.. eg. dont let anyone get behind you..(i know its obvious but i felt like i had to add that)

[KC Elbows]

Its common in initial attacks by the dregs
that one goes for the body and one for the legs.
All at the same time.


Sorry to rhyme.

[Nature Fist]

ok.. but this has to be prementated.. to do something like that.. i mean in reality its impossible for there timing to be exact i mean exact and a martialartist well should expect this and try to handle the situation acordingly.. i mean im not saying that im a super hero.. what im trying to say that.. its not impossible.. for you to defend on multiple attackers..


- Nature Fist

[Merryprankster]

You're right. It's not impossible.

However, when presented with multiple attackers, the goal changes to:

1. Neutralize initial attack
2. Make a hole, in some fashion.
3. Leave.

You don't beat somebody up, you don't stop to worry about if you've disabled the initial attacker long enough for you to run. You simply defend, create space, exit.

[Ford Prefect]

I remember quite distinctly in my school yard days, that if a group of us wanted to take somebody out we'd do in what we called a "rush". Everybody would mob the guy, bring him to the ground, and then we'd stomp him.

[Black Jack]

With fighting in general IMHO its about being proactive, about being the first to make a move, even more so with multiple assailants, if you wait for your assailants to make the first move, they will be be control, you will be reactive, when they attack it will not be one at a time, each in a cartoon succession but more than not all of them at once, leaving you very little chance to fight back.

To me, the best answer is a pre-emptive strike, every second you delay could mean one more opponent, hit first, create a tactical opening and leave.

This is always of course after the you have tired to deseclate the situation with verbal judo.

My two cents.

[Nature Fist]

of course i know this when fighting multiple attackers you do not use long techniques etc.. infact my instructor always told me you have to be very deadly.. to make sure the person would not get up.. even if you have to break each and every one of there necks.. etc.. i guess bottom line is you have to use quick and deadly get to the point techniques.. now it is true i feel to strike first.. sometimes is better.. espacialy when one or 2 of them are very close while the rest are a little ****her behind.. but people say they attack at once.. they may attack at once.. but you have to remmeber some of the attackers might be closer then the others.. hence they would reach to you faster.. meaning they wont reach and attack you all at the same time..

[Black Jack]

What is your point if I may ask, as I am confused?

No matter how a person looks at it, multiple attackers are bad business, how close a attacker is does not matter so much as the rest will bum rush you within fractions of a second, if the attackers are not close then you should get the hell out of there!

If they are close that means business and whoever is closer you hit first and hit hard, attack being the best means of defence, after getting in your pre-emptive strike, if possible, try to find an opening and haul ass, otherwise you hit everything that moves, you scream and let the beast out.

Keep your target zones simple, throat, eyes, balls, knees, if someone is near you, grab there face and bite there nose off, that will psyche the others out.

[Nature Fist]

ok how come f4rther was stared out?

[rubthebuddha]

fårt is a naughty word and the software's filters don't like it in any form. except mine. :cool:

HEY!

i guess that means my fårts don't stink!

better tell my roommates.

[BSH]

Do any other schools practice sparring against multiple opponents?

That is one of the best things about my school. We do group sparring of all types (2 on 1, 3 on 2, 10 on 1, etc.) Not only does it help to prepare you against multiple attackers, it helps you to learn to work together with others in attacking a single or groups of opponents.

In the real world, it is rarely one on one. Most people won't pick a fight with you unless they feel they have the advantage. Either they think they can fight better or they have friends to back them up. Usually the latter.

[Ray Pina]

You're not from the ghetto are you?

I've seen people hopelessly beaten to a pulp by groups as large as 15 and in combos as small as 2. Poeple are smarter then you are giving them credit for.

However, I have faced off with 5 guys (my younger brother and friend yielding behind obviously not looking to get involved). What I did: I picked up a big rock on the beach, these were "locals" who did not want us surfing there.

This is what I said:

"You don't fu(king know me. I'm not some little beach bit(H, I'll Fu(king crack one of you real good with this. You want to fight us 5 on three, no problem.

But I know where you live (motioning to one guy I did not know where he lived but he knew I knew someone that knew him, so it was possible) and I'll be back with my boys from Newark tommorow."

They laughed, as if the whole thing was a local joke and walked away. They were standing above us on a pier, they were throwing rocks at us in the water.

If they would have attacked I don't know what would have happened. I wasn't feeling threatened for some reason.

Get out of it any way you can. I feel I could fight two drunks, or punks. Not two decent martial artists similary sized. Not yet at least.

[rubthebuddha]

on a more serious note, two questions dealing with this:

1. do YOU (each of you) change your attitude and go even earlier if you have more than one potential threat? no a guaranteed threat, but a couple of chumps checking you out and giving you crap? do you personally feel that, due to the greater potential threat, that you're justified in starting things aggressively? please explain why and give examples, if just hypothetical.

2. does the LAW view potential victims of multiple attackers as being more justified with going earlier, given the greater potential threat?

basically, for each of these questions, the situation is that you have a couple chumps/gangbangers/etc. who are either looking to start sh!t, roll you or just make themselves feel bigger and harass any random person on the street. the problem is, you don't know which, and you naturally feel a greater threat. now, do you respond to this greater threat and react earlier than you would had it been just one person?

[Black Jack]

Its best to judge everything situation by situation, use whatever you can to get out without resorting to violence, but when you know these efforts will not work, you should react fast and first.

1. No, pre-emptive is pre-emptive, it all has to be done by feel, its just safer to be proactive than reactive.

2. On a personal note, I could give two flying figs as to what the law thinks, the law is not there to protect me, they are only good for that after the fact, to clean up the mess, so to speak.

I will deal with the law side of the battle after I walk out, something which I may not of been able to do if I had waited for them to start kicking the **** out of me.

[Ray Pina]

Rubthebuddha: About two months ago I had a pretty large juice head put a heavy hand on me at a club for reasons I won't go into.

He was larger then me, and shirtless, showing off his muscles, and placed his hand only shoulder and squeezed. Whiel dancing, I flung my left arm out and my knuckled caught the underside of his bicep (sting! ouch). He removed his hand rather quickly and stepped back to the edge of the dance floor. I noticed 2 or 3 friends, they were also built like him.

They didn't speak. I kept dancing. I was wearing dress shoes (****!). He came again, and I saw him this time. As he reched for the grab the chest conversation I got to his outside and had both of my arms over his reaching left hand. I had perfect control at that point and could have jarred his chin with a rising palm. I didn't. The situation didn't call for it and his friends did not go unnoticed, or my dress shoes.

I said in his ear (loud music): "Is that your girl?" Not waiting for an answer I continued, "Then why don't you dance with her."

He stepped back again. I held my ground for a minute or two, just out of pride (I'm still young) and then found another corner to chill at.

This is 100% true, as the scenario mentioned above. This one was handled more calmly, the other I was foaming from the mouth practically filled with rage. The rock, and the need to display an animal quality, I guess moved me.

[TaoBoy]

There are ways to deal with multiple opponents. These scenarios should be trained often. It seems that more and more confrontations are going down this way these days.

My training:

1. if you can run, run.
2. if you have to fight, fight
3. don't choose your opponent, wait
4. as soon as someone steps into your space, take 'em out
5. if at any time you can run, run
6. deal with opponents as they arrive
7. always stay on the flanks

Sounds like a lot but it makes sense.

I recently assisted a black belt grading where about 6 of us senior students attacked the guy grading. He killed us. And we were really going at him. Different from the street, but no less impressive.

[sanchezero]

I know of 3 guys at my school who've been mobbed. 5-8 guys to 1. 2 of those cases ended up in court. Both times the single guy was held just as responsible, financially (fines, man, fines), as the group of attackers. No one got locked up.

How our 'justice' system sees 1 guy as responsible as 1/2 dozen guys is beyond me, but there you have it. Boolsheet.

[Tae Li]

My instructor used to put one of us in the middle of the training gym and then get about 5 other students to attack and basically you had to counter-atack, i dont know if it will be useful out on the srteet but still the counter attacking practise is good and so is the sensing body movement thing.

And they would come at you whenever tey pleased, but i reckon if you are ever in that situation whip as many assess as possible and then follow your theory of run! run! run!


lol.

Tae Li;)

[Yung Apprentice]

If you are trained to fight calmy, should one change this way of thinking when faced against multiple attackers and as Black Jack stated," Let the beast out"?

[Frogman]

Hello,
This is my first time posting in this part of the forum. I like the idea of multiple attackers in the class, but on the street it’s all on. I would try to avoid this type of confrontation if possible. Any good MA-ist should be able to take the first guy out but you do not know if the second guy is a better fighter. If you have no choice you have no choice. Only one person can be in one place at any given time. Some one is the closest and then there is your strong side. I would have to go for the closest opponent on my stronger side and by all MEANS let the beast out!! Find the quickest exit out of the situation and run like he[[. “He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.”
RibHit.
fm
:D

[guohuen]

RibHit!!! That's funny Frogman! :D :p I see you also posted the Ranger Creed.
I've been reading this thread with a lot of intrepidation, thoroughly expecting a lot of conjecture and patently absurd nonsensense from a lot of people whom have never been in a serious multiple opponent fight. Instead I've been reading some pretty good advice!
Run!
Watch your rear!
Run!
Pick the leader!
Run!
Use extreme violence!
Run!
Pick simple targets!
Run!
Keep them on your flank!
Run!
Make a hole!
Run!
"I consider the whole day a waste unless I recieve H-e-l-l from someone!" United States Airborne Rangers

[TaoBoy]

We sometimes set up a training scenario where one student has to get from one end of the kwoon to the other, through all the other students, without coping a decent hit. (This is done in a controlled way.) It's benefit is that it teaches the student to be aware of all the space around him/her.

Thought y'all might be interested.

One more time - in the real world RUN!! it's your best option!

[GreyFox81]

before i started studying kungfu i used to end up in alot of fights, one on one fights, 1 against four and through all my fights 99% of them i won and i would like to thank anger for it, i had no strategy i was just a brawler and could take alot of punishment for one thing, but when i was angry i was unstoppable i remeber this one fight i had where i was hit in the head with bottles and bricks bleeding from my head and face and still i fought on kept destroying any enemy in my path
and this was against four guys who had no honor and tried to jump me and ended up getiing there @ss beat by one guy.

does anyone else have a experiance where anger has helped them in a fight.

[gazza99]

"fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" -Yoda

[Serpent]

I agree with old Gazza on this one. That really is sage advice. Far better to learn how to control and channel that anger. You're much less likely to end up beaten or in jail.

You don't want to go to the dark side. You can't grow tomatoes there.

[TaoBoy]

Hang on! A thoughtful post from The Serp? And I have to agree? This is truly a strange day!

[And GreyFox listen to Yoda!]

[Serpent]

****!

MODERATORS! I want this post deleted right away!

TaoBoy, you'd better not tell a soul!

;)

[TaoBoy]

It's our little secret.

*Assumes Brittany Murphy voice*
"I'll never tell".

:D

[Serpent]

Phew! Thanks man!

:cool:

[Repulsive Monkey]

Its a shame as you comments seem to be borne from insecurity by and large. Anger is the most reckless of allies to depend on to be honest, and its so damaging to your health. Im not lying when I say that being angry will shorten your life. Anger is so constrictive and anger always unbalances the Liver Qi to and contributes 9 times out of 10 to Liver Qi Stagnation which is never a nice complaint to have. Anger is a natural emotion when exhibited appropriately, but I wonder why you found yourself getting into so many fights when most people seem to be able to avoid such occurences?
I suggest you lok back to ealier events in your life and try and chart the progression of this unecessary resentment you have in your life.
Anger is base and reckless it has no control or subtlety, and is so draining and damaging to the long life of your Liver. Check your pulses on your left hand about an inch down from the wrist crease! I wouldn't be suprised if you felt the equivalent of a steel wire beating away there 10 times a second!

[GreyFox81]

listen here monkey i don't rely on anger in a fight anymore because since i'm alot older stuff doesn't happen anymore and i'm not insecure i don't know where anyone got that from and i am not a trouble maker i never throw the first punch and where i lived was not the burbs i lived in the drug filled streets of south philadelphia and you are bound to get into some Sh#t unless you
stay in the house all the time and i was just saying that when i fought someone it was out of anger when i won it was out of anger is it the best thing to have maybe not cuz it was a couple a times where i could have ran but i was so mad at the persons
trangressions that i stayed and traded blows and that is that

[Repulsive Monkey]

but surely if as you say you are older now, you will realise how destructive to oneself anger is. Inapropriate and loing held anger does actually create illness you know?. When you fight with anger as your drive, yeah sure you can give someone an adrenalised and bile induced beating in a savage manner, however you also weaken the body internally and thus open yourself up to Liver Qi illnesses. All I'm saying is that you should try to avoid fighting with anger as it is base and depleting.
It is possible to fight with a less spurious mindset you know?!

[PLCrane]

GreyFox,

When you were younger, your anger directed your intent. Now that you've studied, you know how to focus your intent. You don't need to be angry to win a fight, you just need to do it.


PLC

[TaoBoxer]

This isn't a post about morality or philosophy.... he was asking about using anger WHEN you fight.

This type of kneejerk reaction (anger is bad, don't react emotionally) Phil Donahue crap really ****es me off.

The tao is yin AND yang. Kung Fu is Yin and Yang. Anger and placidity are just as valid a contrast as light and dark.

When I was studying Lo Han my Sifu would leave me in a horse stance for quite a long time..... When I was shaking, sweating, and sometimes even vomiting, he would say "now....before you fall....before you quit..... Imagine your wife is going to be killed by an attacker.... and all you have to do to save her is stay down in that stance for another 20 seconds........"

Emotion is a very powerfull and valid training tool. Why do you think Kung Fu has animals?? It is to engage the primal emotional side of the human. People who disregard anger and fear in training have never had their lives truly threatened.

[LEGEND]

In times of stress...u get emotional...ANGER and FEAR helps in real fights. Every boxer that has step in the ring felt fear. Cuz Damoto use to have tons of comments on how to make FEAR and ANGER your allies! So yes...I went HULKAMANIA on some peeps. Now that I'm older...not so much. You can grow SOFT and lose your NERVE and experience a PANIC ATTACK...I did 2 years ago when I caught my ex cheating on me. But it happens. Anger and Fear are great tools to control.

[respectmankind]

curious, how old are you and how old where you? i reconise your name from a very popular video game. just got me wondering.

[SevenStar]

I gotta agree with legend and taoboxer on this one. The trick is to learn how to use your emotions to your advantage. you will expreience fear in a fight. chances are, you will experience anger. Embrace them. use them. make them your friend.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Just don't take them to bed with you. They are pretty ugly in the morning.

[Former castleva]

Decent post.
But I am more like a believer to classic budo ways of mushin and mind control.
If you are very good you can stop when it´s about to start.
Controlling your emotions and remaining naturally confident and calm,this may seriously tear your opponent´s false courage.
Opponent´s want their victims to be afraid and nervous,often victims don´t fight back because of their emotionally upset mind.
If you have to defend yourself physically,your empty mind will be your friend,your response shall be natural and not distracted.
Sure you´ll probably experience some sort of adrenaline rush and know that your in trouble,it does not stomp over the common sense.
If it happens that you break off mentally,you may experience goofy sense of sight and may not be able to see very well to the sides etc. whatever happens around.
Emotional disturbance may very well be the result of narrow thinking and poor technique.
Because the situation may be very difficult while about to start is one reason to be calm,you can´t give up but as there are multiple attackers and possibly even armed (very lethal)
You will have to keep a humble attitude towards your emotional mind,for it is not very unlikely that you may die.
If anger takes control you may get a furious attitude and go like "OK,LET´S GO ON THEN!!" while you should remain calm,this can be especially true as if you are facing a gun etc.

This is one side of it that I can think of now,not necessarily more or less right or wrong,just one.

:cool:

[Repulsive Monkey]

I think what some people may of tended to gloss over was the use of the word inapropriate and apropriate use of anger. If you constantly use anger as fuel then this is inapropriate to development and will create and clipped and blinkered, aswell as draining, mindset - FACT! As a toll it can help you achieve things but wouldn't it be better to achieve these things without the weakness on relying on an emotion as anger? What happens if you needed anger to fuel a response and somehow you couldn't get that angry spark going? You be 86'd in seconds. Anger is limiting and if you rely on it then you have a flaw in your training. It is so base to inapropriately depend on it for a benchmark to improve yourself. The fact of the matter is, is that from a TCM point of view you will deterioate the Liver's functions by invoking anger all over the place.
The principles of Mushin is infinitely more desirable as a mindstate to train in than anger.

[The Willow Sword]

you did what you needed to do to get the job done and to survive the fight. anger can sometimes work to your advantage.
when it is survival mode ALL emotions are utilized. you can either give a beating or take a beating in a zen passive sort of way ,,,OR you can give or take a beating in an angry way as well.
all this talk about mind control and controlling emotions. when you get hit either in sparring or in a real fight,,no matter what your mental state you will always react aggressively to it. it is primal genetic instict that cannot be reversed in the survival siutation. i wouldnt give old grey here a hard time about what he has done in the past. instead commend him on his making it through the gauntlet of violent human experiences and now is better off.

Many respects,,The Willow Sword

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
I think what some people may of tended to gloss over was the use of the word inapropriate and apropriate use of anger. If you constantly use anger as fuel then this is inapropriate to development and will create and clipped and blinkered, aswell as draining, mindset - FACT! As a toll it can help you achieve things but wouldn't it be better to achieve these things without the weakness on relying on an emotion as anger? What happens if you needed anger to fuel a response and somehow you couldn't get that angry spark going? You be 86'd in seconds. Anger is limiting and if you rely on it then you have a flaw in your training. It is so base to inapropriately depend on it for a benchmark to improve yourself. The fact of the matter is, is that from a TCM point of view you will deterioate the Liver's functions by invoking anger all over the place.
The principles of Mushin is infinitely more desirable as a mindstate to train in than anger.

I think there's a miscommunication there - he's not saying rely on it, but if it's there, utilize it. If I am in a fight and have easy access to a brick, I'll use it...but I won't rely on there being a brick nearby every time I get into an altercation.

Example, I get confronted by some drunk, who's just causing trouble. I'm not mad at him. no need to be. If I can't avoid fighting him, get it over with and leave.

BUT, if some guy is beating my daughter and I catch him in the act, I'm gonna get angry, and I'm gonna use that anger to **** him up.

It's a tool, like anything else. use it, but don't depend on it.

[SevenStar]

sounds as if he was dependent on anger.

[mantiskilla]

anger is a good thing.:)
________
MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES MANTECA. CA (http://dispensaries.org)

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

http://dl1.dumpalink.com/media/Kxfjwu7AY5jg/GuGY4G4mDg6q.wmv

1 spider vs. 30 ants.

*i warn that some bored dudes setup the fight. the vid is not tree hugger friendly.

[MARTIALSTUDANT]

That was mean and dumb!!

[_William_]

Please kindly critique my multiple attacker skills!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_8iLKkwNTM

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

That was mean and dumb!!

you know im strongly against dog and cock fighting, but those are bugs and somehow i care less.

hehe ... i said cock.

[RonH]

The strength of MMA is in that it exposes you to so many fighting tempers and styles, and pairs you up with people who have different strengths. The weakness in TCMA (if you don't look around outside of your school), is that you only ever practice or expect to counter/encounter all the techniques in your arsenal, delivered with your particular emphasis and principles, etc. In effect, you fight clones of yourself.

The reason the MMA fighter would dominate, is that he won't expect as much coming in, because he knows a punch can come in at every angle, and doesn't have to protect a centerline for the sake of the centerline. A kick can be used multitudes of ways, and doesn't always use the same striking surface. But as soon as you're engaged, he can generally predict your temper, striking method, and weakness, b/c he's exposed to so many stylisms, he has to be able to do this in order to keep up to tempo in his art.

The good thing about a quality TCMA guy is he knows his body better, and generally has no doubt as to what to do in certain situations, and can execute quickly and effectively. The bad thing about a quality TCMA guy, is if you get him out of his comfort zone (ground, certain ranges, etc.), he's treading unknown waters and pretty much is making it up as he goes along b/c he's so stuck in his preconceived notions as to what it is he should be doing. He'll wind up stumbling over himself.


One of the hallmarks of a long lasting style is its adaptability 'on the fly' when the unknown does happen upon the fighter. If the underlying principles of any attack can be countered effectively, regardless of whether you have seen a specific attack before or not.


But the principles of kungfu single out certain attacks as inefficient, and therefore cut them out of usage. Strangely enough, I see many of these in regular usage during MMA bouts. If you cut them out of usage, you won't see them coming at you from your classmates.

Because a technique doesn't seem to fit in with a system or style, it doesn't make it inefficient. It means that it doesn't fit in. CMA guys say...the method of power generation is weak. You really want to do such and such, change the angle, etc. But if you don't have that kind of freedom of waist and leg motion, you've got to be able to pack power in your punch with good ol' Irish grit and sinew. But really, all strikes should fit into every system, because you're fighting.

That is, if you want to do more than just dance....


Seeing chicks in bikinis and butt shorts makes volleyball games worth watching. If you like dudes, there's the well toned and buff guys with their shirts off.



I would say possibly some styles, but not all.


Because a technique doesn't seem to fit in with a system or style, it doesn't make it inefficient. It means that it doesn't fit in. CMA guys say...the method of power generation is weak.[quote]

As an internalist, I'd say all purely external arts don't have as much power as they could have, to be more accurate and specific about the weakness.



There are many places that you can get power from that don't use legs or the waist. It won't be as powerful a strike, but you don't always need brick and mortar bursting power to get a one up on the other guy. Striking with the shoulder or a head butt are good options.



Exactly. If you can't do it, there's something wrong. It may not be something that the student does and it wouldn't necessarily mean that that student is an idiot. 'Doing something wrong', in the sense I'm using it, is free of any condescension and mockery. If you grab one item off a table by accident, as you pass by and you really meant to grab what was next to it, that doesn't mean you're an idiot.



True, but I've found that if you really need to conserve your energy, as you deflect multiple attacks in quick succession, you should treat the fighting as mostly a dance. It's less about ending the fight then and there (especially when attacked by a mob) and more about redirecting/neutralizing incoming attacks with very little effort on your part. It sometimes comes off as the martial art version of ballet. Just a tiny tiny brush or a very light slap on the incoming limb to move it the inch or less to get it out of the path that it's in, which is the one that's gonna make contact with you.

After that, it's a multitasking approach involving deflections with your arms and upper body, while you do femoral kicks and knee strikes/ letting gravity pull your body down, as you step on the side of the knee and press inward/outward a little.


Relying on only the 'tried and true' of fighting?


Doing whatever it takes to win, with whatever you can make work.


[QUOTE=Shaolin Wookie;791925]Or, in other words:

Not this
l
l
l
V

Originally Posted by RonH
as you deflect multiple attacks in quick succession, you should treat the fighting as mostly a dance. It's less about ending the fight then and there... It sometimes comes off as the martial art version of ballet. Just a tiny tiny brush or a very light slap on the incoming limb to move it the inch or less to get it out of the path that it's in, which is the one that's gonna make contact with you..


Okay, so you advocate huge, needlessly spent energy consuming moves when fighting off multiple attackers (and I don't mean if you've got the opportunity to run). You also advocate you need to treat each incoming limb, as if it was a wrecking ball because there's just no way you could ever knock off course an incoming limb or stick or bo or sword or nunchuck or halberd etc. etc. with just a tiny bit of effort because there's just no need to move it just a tiny bit off course, so it doesn't hit you. You're advocating knocking that sucker, like line drive out to center field and going into the stands where there's no way the outfield guys could even hope to catch that thing, unless they've got a jet pack.

Sure, I'd love to see that done by any external artist for any extended period of time where they have no rest between each incoming attack. You've got a better chance of doing that if you're a Navy Seal than a lot of martial artists or MMA people.




Do as much damage as you can, while you can.

Or you don't do the 'a running bull in a china shop' way of fighting.


The thing about defense is, no matter how good you are, you're going to get hit sooner or later. And if you're fending off multiple attackers, if you get hit once, it's game over. Especially if you're playing a game of inches.

Which would you prefer to have? Waste larger amounts of energy sooner, making yourself tired sooner and allowing the others to catch you at a bad moment? Any of them just need one half second against you. Or do you want to extend the time you've got till you can find a way to kick all their asses? My way doesn't gaurantee it for you, but it gives you a better shot at winning in the long term.


One of the benefits of external MA is that you have good conditioning, b/c it's part of your training, and you get used to taking hits, so you can bear them better.

In the sense of brute force against brute force. In internal arts, absorbing the energy and letting the soft tissue of your body wrap around the incoming object, much like the body of a drunk against a steering wheel in a car accident, lets your body survive the attack with less trauma because the body is more bendable.


And if you really rock your blocks with your forearms, you can damage their arms with your defense, and add that element of offense to your defensive maneuvers.

Sure, it's always good to screw up your arms early on in a fight, especially against multiple people.


Anything is better than remaining the calm center of your own universe, because it's not your universe.

HAA!!! I laugh at this notion. Whatever their motivation, whatever way they decide to attack you, you are still being attacked. All their eyes and neurons are on you getting pummeled and sometimes, destroyed. You are the center of their universe for the length of time the fight is happening.

So, who dictates what happens in that universe? Do you want it to be the ones attacking you? I like being proactive with my universe.


Better by far to divide and conquer, if you have no choice. I mean viciously. Barrel into one, use everything, elbow, knee, kick, bite, spit, punch, grab, choke, rake, claw, and destroy. Then use that one as a shield. Go for the weakest one, so long as he's not the expendable guy in the group. Me, I'm going for the skinny one, b/c I know I can bowl him over no prob with a shoulder tackle, then stomp on him and lessen the odds. It is, in fact, end the fight as quick as possible.

I've found it's best to go where there's the highest concentration of people of the attacking group. Being so close together, it limits their abilities. That's when you take one and drop him. I prefer going after the bigger ones, especially the one that seems to be the leader.

[lkfmdc]

Here, RonH demonstrates his theory

[Shaolin Wookie]

[QUOTE=RonH;791904]In the sense of brute force against brute force. In internal arts, absorbing the energy and letting the soft tissue of your body wrap around the incoming object, much like the body of a drunk against a steering wheel in a car accident, lets your body survive the attack with less trauma because the body is more bendable.

Remind me to use this excuse if I ever get caught DUI. "Buwt ophisser....ith wuz phor meye owne perthsonawl thafety......dephenthive driphing, u knowe."

I laughed at this, and concluded that you have to be a troll. I mean, come on dude.....are you telling me that my punching bag wins every fight? Sure, it's still hanging there, but if I pull out the stuffing and then stuff you inside, do you think you'd fare as well?


[QUOTE=RonH;791904]Sure, it's always good to screw up your arms early on in a fight, especially against multiple people.

If you work out and aren't a *****, and have some forearms, you'll damage his, not yours. And even if he's got hard forearms, it still won't do much more than sting.


[QUOTE=RonH;791904]HAA!!! I laugh at this notion. Whatever their motivation, whatever way they decide to attack you, you are still being attacked. All their eyes and neurons are on you getting pummeled and sometimes, destroyed. You are the center of their universe for the length of time the fight is happening.

I laugh at your laughter at this notion. They're not getting pummeled. In fact, their hands are just barely missing your head by inches, what with your deft touches.


So, who dictates what happens in that universe? Do you want it to be the ones attacking you? I like being proactive with my universe.

Then you have to attack and do damage.


I've found it's best to go where there's the highest concentration of people of the attacking group. Being so close together, it limits their abilities. That's when you take one and drop him. I prefer going after the bigger ones, especially the one that seems to be the leader.


You do that. But the little guy probably is the ringleader, or else the big guys wouldn't be there, or he wouldn't. I've never seen a hossed up dude say to his 130 lb. girlie-framed friend: "Let's go get that guy! The two of us!"

Maybe if you stomp his little buddy, he'll stop and attend to the little guy's wounds. And if you lose, well, at least you got your ass handed to you by the big guy, and not the skinny little dweeb.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm going to conclude, if it's alright with you, that you're used to push hands and haven't really scrapped with someone hardcore. You are not the calm center of your own universe, unless your partner allows you to be. Part of fighting is putting your opponent out of his comfort zone. If he stays in it, he's the one on the offensive, throwing bombs.

[RonH]

[QUOTE=RonH;791943]

Remind me to use this excuse if I ever get caught DUI. "Buwt ophisser....ith wuz phor meye owne perthsonawl thafety......dephenthive driphing, u knowe."

I did hear one underage kid, after he got caught in the woods where a party was, said to the cop 'I just got out of the shower'. The cop laughed heartily, said something and then, let the kid go with a warning.

I really did hear that.


I laughed at this, and concluded that you have to be a troll. I mean, come on dude.....are you telling me that my punching bag wins every fight?

Are you punching holes in your bag with every punch? If you are, you're buying a really crappy brand of bag. It's only after long term use that the bag would need to be replaced. Now, image in the very short term, if the bag could punch back.

Also, if you don't take care of your hands before and after punching the bag, your flesh will get seriously damaged, especially if you don't let it have time to heal. The same is true if you use a tree instead of a bag.


Sure, it's still hanging there, but if I pull out the stuffing and then stuff you inside, do you think you'd fare as well?

First, I'm very flexible and I've had my fair share of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, etc. But, I delibereately let my body wrap around them because I let my body go limp some times and it isn't a problem. Plus, the times when I really get hurt, I do heal faster than most people because of my ever exponentially increasing hyperactivity/metabolism.

Take a look at a lot of drunk drivers that get into accidents. Those that have been drinking often get out of the car with barely a scratch. Sometimes, not even that. They might just have a bump. Those that get hit are the ones that aren't drinking and their bodies stiffen up from the shock that the force of the impact reverberates throughout their body more strongly, causing more damage.

Take sound. Solid matter, especially rock, is a stronger conductor for sound than air. The denser the medium sound has to travel through, the faster it travels. There are other things, like temperature that effect the speed, but it's still a fact speed is higher with solids than liquids or gases.


If you work out and aren't a *****, and have some forearms, you'll damage his, not yours. And even if he's got hard forearms, it still won't do much more than sting.

Not every single time. What if he's got more developed arms then you? Your arms will be in worse shape than his.


I laugh at your laughter at this notion. They're not getting pummeled. In fact, their hands are just barely missing your head by inches, what with your deft touches.

A miss is still a miss. It doesn't matter if it's inches or feet. You can keep them as close to you as you want and slip around them and use them as a shield against one of the other attackers, as we agree upon.


Then you have to attack and do damage.

Even if you do work out hard, there's no amount of strength training or conditioning that can make a knee or the throat just as strong as a femur, if you are conditioning your entire body. If your conditioning includes what you can do with the femur, you'd have to let that particular part of your conditioning lag behind and that isn't a good idea.


You do that. But the little guy probably is the ringleader, or else the big guys wouldn't be there, or he wouldn't.

That isn't always true. The big guy could believe in strength in numbers and still be the leader. When it comes to leaders, their followers are often the people that are around in the same area and they aren't always the pick of the litter.


I've never seen a hossed up dude say to his 130 lb. girlie-framed friend: "Let's go get that guy! The two of us!"

You need to get out more then. People that have been small and weak their whole lives will often use their brain. A big guy with strength and brains can team up with someone that's got brains and speed.


Maybe if you stomp his little buddy, he'll stop and attend to the little guy's wounds. And if you lose, well, at least you got your ass handed to you by the big guy, and not the skinny little dweeb.

So, reputation appearances after the fact are important when you fight? That's something you could do well to be without. Let's say you did. The skinny little dweeb might have a trick up his sleeve or a gun.


I'm going to conclude, if it's alright with you, that you're used to push hands and haven't really scrapped with someone hardcore.

No, I'm speaking from experience. There have been many times when I've gone up against varying amounts of people. Some have not liked me for legitimate reasons (at least to them) and that's why they did it. Others have been because they thought I was a good target or just because.


You are not the calm center of your own universe, unless your partner allows you to be.

Wrong again. The type of center I am for my universe is what I choose to be. The other person or people can do whatever they want. How I react is still up to me. I've worked a very long time to eliminate the hindering reactions that come out of fear and uncertainty. They are far far less an issue today then way way back then when I first started.


Part of fighting is putting your opponent out of his comfort zone. If he stays in it, he's the one on the offensive, throwing bombs.

Loosing is still an option, while one remains within their comfort zone. Loosing after not making any mistakes happens. When both/all opponents are in their respective comfort zones, it still comes down to skill and availability of opportunities.

Multitasking is very important when fighting multiple people, especially when they have some skills of their own.

[Knifefighter]

Ron- please post some clips of you doing anything you are advocating.

[golden arhat]

First, I'm very flexible and I've had my fair share of punches, kicks, knees, elbows, etc. But, I delibereately let my body wrap around them because I let my body go limp some times and it isn't a problem. Plus, the times when I really get hurt, I do heal faster than most people because of my ever exponentially increasing hyperactivity/metabolism.

BS


let me elbow you on the face and lets see how well ur face copes k ?

no the reason you are limp is because you had your arse kicked mate

seriously if u have ever taken a full on kick to the ribs you would know that u dont just go
oh well and go limp



Take a look at a lot of drunk drivers that get into accidents. Those that have been drinking often get out of the car with barely a scratch. Sometimes, not even that. They might just have a bump. Those that get hit are the ones that aren't drinking and their bodies stiffen up from the shock that the force of the impact reverberates throughout their body more strongly, causing more damage.



yes the reason ppl get hurt in drink driving accidents is because they were too stiff

if they had just loostened up a bit and relaxed that large ball of metal heading their way at 60 mph would have merely bounced off them :rolleyes:

[RonH]

BS

let me elbow you on the face and lets see how well ur face copes k ?

That would require me to relax my facial and neck muscles and made sure my jaw was slacked, if I really wanted to take the force. It'd also involve making sure my spine was loose, as well as my upper body. Having my lower body loose, too, would help, but it isn't really necessary.


no the reason you are limp is because you had your arse kicked mate

The reason I'm limp is because I've done taijiquan for many years.


seriously if u have ever taken a full on kick to the ribs you would know that u dont just go
oh well and go limp

I've been kicked in far worse places than the ribs. If I'm able to see an attack coming and I'm unable to avoid it, I let my body go limp and 'roll' with the hit. What's so hard to think that someone could have developed that kind of reflexive action?


yes the reason ppl get hurt in drink driving accidents is because they were too stiff

if they had just loostened up a bit and relaxed that large ball of metal heading their way at 60 mph would have merely bounced off them :rolleyes:

You really do need to examin accidents.

[xcakid]

BS



no the reason you are limp is because you had your arse kicked mate





:D ROFLMAO :D Well said!!

Have to say. In my limited stint fighting in SanShou matches back in the day. I did go limp everytime I got hit hard. One time I even ended up napping for a few seconds.

So there may be a correlation between getting hit, going limp and absorbing the follow up shots. :D

[cjurakpt]

The reason I'm limp is because I've done taijiquan for many years.

I'd suggest Viagra...

[SimonM]

That would require me to relax my facial and neck muscles and made sure my jaw was slacked, if I really wanted to take the force. It'd also involve making sure my spine was loose, as well as my upper body. Having my lower body loose, too, would help, but it isn't really necessary.



Sounds like a good way to get a dislocated jaw. Me, I'd rather put my arm in the way and not get hit in the face to begin with.

[RonH]

He did want to know how I'd do against an elbow to the face.

[cjurakpt]

He did want to know how I'd do against an elbow to the face.

this could be the next KFM inspired post-Springer/Osiris video...anyone wiling to travel?

[SimonM]

I wish. Saving up for moving back to Canada from China in July. Bringing the wife along and that's going to cost a bit. :)

[golden arhat]

I'd suggest Viagra...

HAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAH

[golden arhat]

That would require me to relax my facial and neck muscles and made sure my jaw was slacked, if I really wanted to take the force. It'd also involve making sure my spine was loose, as well as my upper body. Having my lower body loose, too, would help, but it isn't really necessary.


yes and after all that u would still be slumped in a corner crying about how your jaw is broken and yelling at me to call an ambulance (and or heal yourself with your special qi powers):rolleyes:


The reason I'm limp is because I've done taijiquan for many years.


taiji doesnt make u limp any body could tell you that, it makes u more relaxed
but firm also



I've been kicked in far worse places than the ribs. If I'm able to see an attack coming and I'm unable to avoid it, I let my body go limp and 'roll' with the hit. What's so hard to think that someone could have developed that kind of reflexive action?
[QUOTE]
prove it, get a muay thai guy to kick you full on and film it

and then get to the accident and emergency department ASAP



You really do need to examin accidents.

okay u go get drunk and play in traffic then go limp

examine that

[Shaolin Wookie]

Welcome to my sig.

Time to go back under the bridge, or back into the closet, Ron.

[RonH]

yes and after all that u would still be slumped in a corner crying about how your jaw is broken and yelling at me to call an ambulance (and or heal yourself with your special qi powers):rolleyes:

I wouldn't be slumped in a corner, I wouldn't be crying, my jaw wouldn't be broken and I wouldn't need to say to get an ambulance, yelling or otherwise.

Mockery is not a counterargument.


taiji doesnt make u limp any body could tell you that, it makes u more relaxed
but firm also

The required level of being limp, as well as the speed to become limp to prevent damage from being as bad as it can be, requires you to be relaxed.

Strength comes form being soft, not hard.



okay u go get drunk and play in traffic then go limp

examine that

So, instead of actually doing the footwork to examin accidents involving drunks, you want to bury your head in the sand and plug your fingers in your ears, screaming 'LALALALA!'

If you truly did have a counterargument, you would be using it. Not this petty moaning.


Welcome to my sig.

Time to go back under the bridge, or back into the closet, Ron.

So, you are now refusing to even address any points made by either myself or you. A counterargument this does not make.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Strength comes form being soft, not hard.

Then hit them with your nads. Clearly your fists and your hands, your feet, elbows, shins, forearms, head (well, in your case it seems to be full of mush, so it's alright in your case), and your knees are your weakest weapons.



So, you are now refusing to even address any points made by either myself or you. A counterargument this does not make.


And speaking in discombobulated sentences does not make you yoda.

[Knifefighter]

So, instead of actually doing the footwork to examin accidents involving drunks, you want to bury your head in the sand and plug your fingers in your ears, screaming 'LALALALA!'

Ron- please cite your sources for your claim that being drunk and relaxed results in less chance of becomming injured or killed in an automobile crash.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I'm pretty sure it's a posteriori argument. Stress on the posterior, which is where it is coming from.

[RonH]

Then hit them with your nads. Clearly your fists and your hands, your feet, elbows, shins, forearms, head (well, in your case it seems to be full of mush, so it's alright in your case), and your knees are your weakest weapons.

Blatant strawman. What have we been talking about lately on this issue? Flexibility/limpness in being able to take punishment. The same is true with an elbow to the face.

What's clear is that you didn't stay on topic.


And speaking in discombobulated sentences does not make you yoda.

This has nothing to do with yoda. Pay attention.


I'm pretty sure it's a posteriori argument. Stress on the posterior, which is where it is coming from.

And, instead of providing a suitable counterpoint, you treat your position, as if it was the defacto one and then, mock. This does not make you any more right.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Any more right does not a rightness make in an argument that does not an argument make, with a poster that a troll makes.

[BlueTravesty]

Don't you mean

"Any more right, this does not make you, hmmmm?"

[Shaolin Wookie]

The only way that one can truly cause one's body to fold around the impact of a fist or elbow, is if one puts on 400 lbs. and the fist and elbow sink into the fat man's flesh.

[Shaolin Wookie]

Don't you mean

"Any more right, this does not make you, hmmmm?"

BT, please make this bad man stop........:D

[Knifefighter]

RonH = typical "internal artist" with no experience in real time applications.

[lkfmdc]

oh come on, if after all this anyone ever bothers to enter into a discussion with fantasy land, LARP'ing, living in his own world, chi blasting "Ron" then they need to have their head examined......

[RonH]

The only way that one can truly cause one's body to fold around the impact of a fist or elbow, is if one puts on 400 lbs. and the fist and elbow sink into the fat man's flesh.

The degree of being able to fold around an impacting item isn't required to be at the level that exists for gift wrapping around a box. All that's required is a significant bend within the body.


Any more right does not a rightness make in an argument that does not an argument make, with a poster that a troll makes.

And, instead of owning up to what you have done by arguing a blatant strawman and then, proceeding to mock what I said, you have continued to show an increasing lack of a desire for honesty in the discussion.

But, I do know that you're better than that. You are better than the likes of Knifefighter and lkfmdc who can do nothing now, but just throw verbal barbs my way because I don't speak to them anymore. Their petty sniping continues to degrade their position, but they gave up caring about that. All they want to do now is try to get me rilled up enough that I'd be so mad that I'd actually speak to them again.

One example of it can be seen with that pic of the fat guy with the beer can that lkfmdc posted. The post after post of accusations that I'm LARPing. And, unless he's accusing me of being a meat salad, his proclamations that I'm a role-player are really nothing more than a desperate attempt to get me to interact with him again. The overgeneralized crap that like other internalists, I have no experience by Knifefighter.

So, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna let you cool off. Get it out of your system and when you have, we can continue this discussion more honestly and in a mature fashion. Acting with school yard rules is not conducive to an honest discussion and a free flow of ideas. When you have gotten it out of your system, post in this thread that you have or send me a PM.

[Shaolin Wookie]

And, instead of owning up to what you have done by arguing a blatant strawman and then, proceeding to mock what I said, you have continued to show an increasing lack of a desire for honesty in the discussion.

No, that lack was on your part, when you said fighting is a form of dancing, that all it takes is a deft touch to thwart a punch, and that strength is irrelevant in fighting. Oh, and that other part about everything you've said in this and that other thread, and maybe everything in general.;)


But, I do know that you're better than that. You are better than the likes of Knifefighter and lkfmdc who can do nothing now, but just throw verbal barbs my way because I don't speak to them anymore.

Troll 101: boost his ego, maybe he'll take you seriously.

Well, I am a belle for flattery. Comment on my biceps. Do you like them, suga?


The overgeneralized crap that like other internalists, I have no experience by Knifefighter.

Problem is, they're right. Have you ever stood in front of a NHB fighter and had him throw down on you (even if light contact)? I did. It was quite frightening.....honest. And I'm an externalist (stupid word, anyways); an internalist would have been mincemeat. At least I had the good sense to bob and weave, jab, and kick low. Your roll backs=Oh my god, I just got KFO'd, and now I'm falling, and rolling back across the floor, and now I'm KO'd and drooling on the mat.....hey, my ward off is kind of like the motion I use to wipe off a table, so at least I'll be able to wipe my blood and drool off the mats. And hey, grasping the sparrow's tail is kind of like picking up my teeth, so at least I can use them there.

Tai Chi can be used with fighting applications. The question is, should it?


So, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna let you cool off. Get it out of your system and when you have, we can continue this discussion more honestly and in a mature fashion. Acting with school yard rules is not conducive to an honest discussion and a free flow of ideas. When you have gotten it out of your system, post in this thread that you have or send me a PM.

I'm sorry. Here, I blew my cool. I admit it. Let's talk seriously on this issue. I love trolls, deep down. I really do.

[Knifefighter]

All they want to do now is try to get me rilled up enough that I'd be so mad that I'd actually speak to them again..

LOL... nope, don't care about talking to you one way or another. You just need to put up a video of you doing any one of the things you have advocated. Until then, you are full of sh!t.

[SAAMAG]

I took a shot in the balls once, but because my balls were relaxed....

[RonH]

I'm sorry. Here, I blew my cool. I admit it. Let's talk seriously on this issue. I love trolls, deep down. I really do.

I'm not sure which to believe. You have started to discuss the points of my post, as you had before, but given you definition of a troll, this could very well have been a way to get me to reply again, viewing a more civil discussion would be a boost to my ego. For most things in my life, ego doesn't factor in, so it wouldn't be a fctor, but the fact that your quote of me remains in your signature, especially when it was put in there during a time of increasing furtherance of gaining towards where you had gone earlier today makes me question the validity.

In the end, it boils down to seeing what happens.


No, that lack was on your part, when you said fighting is a form of dancing, that all it takes is a deft touch to thwart a punch, and that strength is irrelevant in fighting.

First off, I didn't say it was a form of dancing. I said the martial arts version of ballet. The dancing version of martial arts is what's seen a lot in the performance pieces of several modern styles and solo competition events.

I said to treat it as mostly a dance, in the sense of smooth, graceful actions with not a lot of strength behind them. Not at the levels used to break concrete blocks. This was in reference to energy conservation.

And you don't need a lot of energy to defect an incoming limb/meelee weapon. You just need the amount needed to knock it off course. The severity of how much it's knocked off course doesn't have to be very far. A miss is still a miss, whether it's inches or feet. But, that does not mean to treat it entirely as a literal dance.


Troll 101: boost his ego, maybe he'll take you seriously.

Well, I am a belle for flattery. Comment on my biceps. Do you like them, suga?

Where the hell have you been spending your online time? I've never come across that definition. I've always known it, as well as pretty much everyone else I've come across outside of this board, and including some on this one, as a troll being someone that flamebaits, causes trouble just to cause trouble.


Problem is, they're right.

Only when viewing things in such an ultralimited perspective.


Have you ever stood in front of a NHB fighter and had him throw down on you (even if light contact)?

I've sparred with wrestlers, grapplers, JMA people, middle eastern fighters, western europeans, CMAers, both armed and unarmed. Outside of sparring, I've run up against people with home made weapons (lead pipes, wrenches, pens, rocks, molatov c#cktails) and against others with knives, guns (actually fired with the bullets flying past me), explosives.

And before knifefighter goes and asks about video posting what I've said to back it up, the bad guys typically aren't accomodating. I don't get attacked by those wankers that are stupid enough to videotap who they assualt and post it online. Those people that do are not the smart attackers. That's why they're often posted by disaffected youth.


I did. It was quite frightening.....honest.

You need to free yourself of your fear of loosing, of not being good enough.


And I'm an externalist (stupid word, anyways);

It is technically accurate.


an internalist would have been mincemeat.

A properly trained internalist would have been successful, as would a properly trained externalist.


Tai Chi can be used with fighting applications. The question is, should it?

If you know what you're doing.

[Knifefighter]

I've always known it, as well as pretty much everyone else I've come across outside of this board, and including some on this one, as a troll being someone that flamebaits, causes trouble just to cause trouble.

A troll is someone who posts things that are false as if they were true... exactly what you do.


And before knifefighter goes and asks about video posting what I've said to back it up, the bad guys typically aren't accomodating. I don't get attacked by those wankers that are stupid enough to videotap who they assualt and post it online. Those people that do are not the smart attackers. That's why they're often posted by disaffected youth..

I'm not saying you need to show videos of this.



I've sparred with wrestlers, grapplers, JMA people, middle eastern fighters, western europeans, CMAers, both armed and unarmed.

These are the clips that would be easy for you to post. But of course, everyone knows you are not sparring with other people and that it will never happen.

[cjurakpt]

Offical RonH do not reply list:
cjurakpt
LKFMDC
Knifefighter
unkokusai
1bad65

Status pending
Shaolin Wookie
Golden Arhat

[Knifefighter]

Offical list of those who know RonH is a theoretical non-fighter who is completely full of sh!t.

cjurakpt
LKFMDC
Knifefighter
unkokusai
1bad65

Status pending
Shaolin Wookie
Golden Arhat[/QUOTE]

[street_fighter]

Offical list of those who know RonH is a theoretical non-fighter who is completely full of sh!t.

cjurakpt
LKFMDC
Knifefighter
unkokusai
1bad65


+ street fighter

[cjurakpt]

+ street fighter

ok, but if you really want to get on the Official List, you're going to have to try a lot harder than that...

[golden arhat]

Offical list of those who know RonH is a theoretical non-fighter who is completely full of sh!t.

cjurakpt
LKFMDC
Knifefighter
unkokusai
1bad65

Status pending
Shaolin Wookie
Golden Arhat[/QUOTE]


i knew it from the beginning
i want off the status pending list

lol

[SimonM]

I think that list would include the names of 90% of the people who have read the thread. Anyone who thinks that they can win a fight by being all limp has never been in a fight. Period.

[golden arhat]

Where the hell have you been spending your online time? I've never come across that definition. I've always known it, as well as pretty much everyone else I've come across outside of this board, and including some on this one, as a troll being someone that flamebaits, causes trouble just to cause trouble.


i fail to see the difference between u and a troll in fact if anything u've made me believe that u are a troll even more




Only when viewing things in such an ultralimited perspective.

i think you are the one with the limited perspective
what kind of martial artist throws concepts such as strength and weight out of the window
accepting just his own view

hmmmmm



I've sparred with wrestlers, grapplers, JMA people, middle eastern fighters, western europeans, CMAers, both armed and unarmed

almost everyone has sparred with a western european
they make up most of the population of western europe and north america
u never said what art they did

the same with middle eastern fighters

middle eastern fighters doing what ?

wrestlers and grapplers wait arent they the same thing ?
its like sayn ive sparred with boxers and punchers :rolleyes:

jma ppl ?
oh i see
hip to fist karate ppl ?
oh wait no aikidoka who are just as deluded about fighting as you are !


. Outside of sparring, I've run up against people with home made weapons (lead pipes, wrenches, pens, rocks, molatov c#cktails) and against others with knives, guns (actually fired with the bullets flying past me), explosives.

OMG I NEVER NEW MEL GIBSON DID TAIJI !
wow i'm so honoured




And before knifefighter goes and asks about video posting what I've said to back it up, the bad guys typically aren't accomodating. I don't get attacked by those wankers that are stupid enough to videotap who they assualt and post it online. Those people that do are not the smart attackers. That's why they're often posted by disaffected youth.

lol u said wanker even tho ur not english
hhahah




You need to free yourself of your fear of loosing, of not being good enough.

u try it

and post a video of you trying it

right now if u doubt him
go to an mma class
and challenge someone there to a fight on film and put it up here

ok ?
other wise

STFU





A properly trained internalist would have been successful, as would a properly trained externalist.

no

no they wouldnt

simple fact



If you know what you're doing.

since you so obviously do

POST A GOD **** VIDEO !

[viper]

Tho i respect the IDEA hes trying to input. I think from previous EXP going limp leads to a unsatified opponent Rofl.
Honestly limp gets you injuried. From my point of view its a happy medium not limp but not rock hard. During a proper fight the body unless you have alot of exp and a good mental mindset will be fairly tense prepared for the hits. But if he could PROVE his theory well thatd be better then all talk. The idea everyone elser it seems is putting forth is proven his not so much.

Ps just my thoughts on this

[sunfist]

There are plenty of talented internal martial artists. The sad part is that for every one of them, there are at least 10 hippies.

Like showertime in prison, it hurts you deeply at first, but you learn to stop caring.

[RonH]

i knew it from the beginning
i want off the status pending list
lol

There has never been any status pending list for any reason. Knifefighter and cjurakpt are in no position to say whether a list for anything regarding my views exists.


I think that list would include the names of 90% of the people who have read the thread. Anyone who thinks that they can win a fight by being all limp has never been in a fight. Period.

If you had read the reasons why I had stated before on why I'm no longer speaking to them, that would make the idea that automatically 90% of the people that have read this thread would be on such a list is a rush to judgement.

Also, I must point out that you have used a strawman. It is not my position you can win a fight by being entirely limp the entire time. The position I take uses, as one facet, the idea that 4 ounces can be used to defeat 1,000 pounds. Whether against a single opponent or a dozen, this facet still applies. But, keep in mind. It is only one of several that need to be used for success.

If you reread what I have written and remember the context of what it has been written in, it should be easier to understand.


i fail to see the difference between u and a troll in fact if anything u've made me believe that u are a troll even more

Thanks to Shaolin Wookie, there has been 2 entirely different definitions of a troll. If you post what your definition is, it'll be much easier to explain. At the moment, there is no frame of reference.


i think you are the one with the limited perspective
what kind of martial artist throws concepts such as strength and weight out of the window
accepting just his own view

1) Being an individual, I do have my own perspective, which is limited. However, it is far less limited than say Knifefighter.
2) I have done no such thing when it comes to strength and weight. If you read what I wrote to SimonM, as well as reread what I've already written in this thread and pay closer attention to exactly what I've said and the context it was said in, you will see that I have been talking about energy conservation, but I have never stated or even implied that strength and weight are meaningless when it comes to fighting. If you got that I did, that's your own fault. Not mine.


almost everyone has sparred with a western european
they make up most of the population of western europe and north america
u never said what art they did

the same with middle eastern fighters

middle eastern fighters doing what ?

There has been a wide range of styles and methods for each subgroup. In the interest of brevity, I named it by region.


wrestlers and grapplers wait arent they the same thing ?
its like sayn ive sparred with boxers and punchers :rolleyes:

Not quite. How I define it has grapplers focusing more on joint locks than not. You're more likely to see someone throw someone against the elastic ropes of a ring and the thrower bouncing off another set to help build up speed to do a jump kick at the thrown guy with wrestlers than grapplers, in my experience.

I've never heard of sumo grapplers. They push people out of the cirlce. They also don't call high school and college wrestlers high school and college grapplers. What they do involves more flipping people over and pushing them away. To me, wrestling is more an overarching term, which can involve grappling. You can attack the legs in grappling (submission wrestling) and freestyle, but you can't in greco-roman. And greco-roman is still wrestling.


jma ppl ?
oh i see
hip to fist karate ppl ?
oh wait no aikidoka who are just as deluded about fighting as you are !

Your continued use of fallacious logic doesn't support your position. Please refrain from using such thinking in the future.


OMG I NEVER NEW MEL GIBSON DID TAIJI !
wow i'm so honoured

Was this supposed to get me rilled up? By calling me the name of a racist and an alcoholic? If that was your intention, you failed miserably at it. Because of your failure, I'd suggest a new tactic, which is to not use it. All it does is make you petty and small.


lol u said wanker even tho ur not english
hhahah

I am English. Part of my ancestry is an Irish/English mix. The only regional group I'm not is whatever region you want to call eskimos and Asian. It'd be best if you didn't jump to conclusions like that. They do nothing to help you.


u try it

I did do it. That's one reason why I'm where I am today.


and post a video of you trying it

When one has already attained something, there is no need to post a video showing that they are trying to accomplish something. It's already happened.


right now if u doubt him
go to an mma class
and challenge someone there to a fight on film and put it up here
ok ?
other wise
STFU

No.

I never said I doubted Shaolin Wookie ever felt that way. We have all felt that way before. Your continued use of strawmen will not show your position to be right because it is inherently faulty from the get go.


no

no they wouldnt

simple fact

Right, because you're the end all and be all of what is successful in the ring. To hell with what anyone else thinks. Sure, keep thinking that.


since you so obviously do

POST A GOD **** VIDEO !

And at this point, I'm supposed to trust that if I did, I wouldn't be accused on not being the one in the video or accused of not using any internal principles, only the external ones? Uh huh.


Tho i respect the IDEA hes trying to input. I think from previous EXP going limp leads to a unsatified opponent Rofl.
Honestly limp gets you injuried. From my point of view its a happy medium not limp but not rock hard. During a proper fight the body unless you have alot of exp and a good mental mindset will be fairly tense prepared for the hits. But if he could PROVE his theory well thatd be better then all talk. The idea everyone elser it seems is putting forth is proven his not so much.

Ps just my thoughts on this

What I would need to do is show the underlying principles and if they are attainable.

1) Having a higher elastic limit lets your body take more punishment before failure. Take silly putting. It's very soft and bendable. You can smash it with a quick strike with a hammer and it breaks up into tiny pieces, but you can put those pieces back together and have the ball of putty once again.

There are some materials that are brittle and have a low density, while they are hard. They'll fracture with a hammer and chisel. Some materials, like iron, are soft (relatively speaking) and can more easily deform, despite its denisty. If a bullet is fired at it, it can be dented, if it doesn't go all the way through, which would depend on the bullet and what it's fired from.

2) How one increases the body's elastic limit is through meditation by relaxing the body enough, so the body parts will start to soften (like the muscles and tendons), so they can be stretched more easily when doing stretching exercises because there is less tension. There are those people that do gymnastics that are Gumbi-like in what they can do with their bodies. What they're taught is to relax their minds and 'feel' the body parts opening up, like their back and the muscles on the inner sides and the back of their legs. Their continued practice gives them both the increased elasticity and strength, which couldn't be done, if they wouldn't let their minds relax in the first place.

In the instance of being put into a heavy bag and having that bag be kicked and punched or to take an elbow to the face, the best thing to do to passively survive it with the least amount of damage done to your body is to be pliable enough to let your body absorb the energy coming at you. To free up the areas where it is most stiff in the body, so that the elastic limit of the area struck is increased, allowing it to return to normal with or without bruising.

[golden arhat]

Thanks to Shaolin Wookie, there has been 2 entirely different definitions of a troll. If you post what your definition is, it'll be much easier to explain. At the moment, there is no frame of reference.



one that posts random cr@p designed to inflame arguments

but then u might just be an idiot




There has been a wide range of styles and methods for each subgroup. In the interest of brevity, I named it by region.



only the methods were important

it matters not weither they were any particular race





Was this supposed to get me rilled up? By calling me the name of a racist and an alcoholic? If that was your intention, you failed miserably at it. Because of your failure, I'd suggest a new tactic, which is to not use it. All it does is make you petty and small.


if you werent a ret@rd u would know i was making that reference because of mel gibson was in a host of action movie's

and u said u had been assaulted by
molotov ****tails
guns
knifes
etc

actually i'm beginning to think u spend all ur time playing grand theft auto


I am English. Part of my ancestry is an Irish/English mix. The only regional group I'm not is whatever region you want to call eskimos and Asian. It'd be best if you didn't

most north american's are english/irish/ decendant

so u have an english accent ?
well then dont use the word

u sound like an idiot


When one has already attained something, there is no need to post a video showing that they are trying to accomplish something. It's already happened.


oh so u cant do what you claim then ?
u could find a sparring partner make a video and youtube it in an instant if u actually had the stones to try any of the cr@p ur professing


Right, because you're the end all and be all of what is successful in the ring. To hell with what anyone else thinks. Sure, keep thinking that.

[Shaolinlueb]

SHAOLIN WOOKIE wrote
The reason the MMA fighter would dominate, is that he won't expect as much coming in, because he knows a punch can come in at every angle, and doesn't have to protect a centerline for the sake of the centerline. A kick can be used multitudes of ways, and doesn't always use the same striking surface. But as soon as you're engaged, he can generally predict your temper, striking method, and weakness, b/c he's exposed to so many stylisms, he has to be able to do this in order to keep up to tempo in his art.

i laughed at this. if your kung fu school doesnt train a punch to come in at different angles and kicks then you are missing out. its experience of the teacher too.

a good kung fu teacher should teach you about all aspects of fighting. you shouldn't have to be an mma mark. of course this means you have to find a teacher who has actually fought which 90% of them out there have not.

i see to many schools practicing things and are like, "if it comes in this way you do this" blah blah. that will teach you to get your ass kicked. you should be able to block and use any move instead of just 1 set of blocks and counter.

[Shaolinlueb]

as for multiple attackers you can thoerize on things all day. best thing to do from what i have encountered is to try to get them to come at you 1 on 1. don't let yourself get surrounded.

from there you can run, which i recommend. or you can take the guy out, beat one so bad you hope his friends learn their lesson.

[RonH]

one that posts random cr@p designed to inflame arguments

but then u might just be an idiot

Given that I haven't done that, I'm not a troll by your definition. My intention has never been to inflame arguments. Just because anyone gets all in a huff over something I said, that isn't on me. Take this thread. All of my posts have been in earnest. I have made no attempt at hiding my true feelings on this matter. While I have done that, there have been people that have mocked what I've said and me personally. It's not unexpected, since they consist mostly of the same people that have been doing it for some time.

The posts I made to them were also just as earnest as the ones I have made to you, Shaolin Wookie and everyone else in this thread. But...I'm not the one speaking to them. They continue to insist on speaking to me. Their words have no power over me, yet mine still have power over them, whatever the reason may be. It could even be said, from their perspective, that they want to eliminate as much crap from the martial arts community, as they can and that's why they keep posting what they write. Except, trying to lob verbal bombs and pictures my way do nothing. It doesn't even make me want to speak to them again, yet they keep at it. I've still got power over them. If I didn't, they wouldn't still be doing what they're doing.

And I'm supposedly the idiot?


only the methods were important

it matters not weither they were any particular race

There is more to fighting styles than 'stick and move' ideas. There's philosophy, culture. Each area of the planet, even with increasing globalization, still has characteristics that are distinct within themselves for all parts of that area. This includes fighting abilities.

But, as I said, I listed them the way I did for issues of brevity.


if you werent a ret@rd u would know i was making that reference because of mel gibson was in a host of action movie's

1) You waste your time by calling me a retard.
2) Given the types of vitriol you've be posting in response to what I've written, it shouldn't be surprising that your reference to Mel Gibson would be taken in that light.


and u said u had been assaulted by
molotov ****tails
guns
knifes
etc

actually i'm beginning to think u spend all ur time playing grand theft auto

I've never played that game or any of its variations. The only things in the last 10-15 years or so that are computer/video games that I've played are solitare and pinball on my laptop. But, that was when I got it last year.


most north american's are english/irish/ decendant

so u have an english accent ?

Yes.


well then dont use the word

No.


u sound like an idiot

I don't care what you think I sound like when I say it.


oh so u cant do what you claim then ?

No, I can't film an attempt at doing something because that implies I've never done it before.


u could find a sparring partner make a video and youtube it in an instant if u actually had the stones to try any of the cr@p ur professing

I'm quote myself from eariler: 'And at this point, I'm supposed to trust that if I did, I wouldn't be accused of not being the one in the video or accused of not using any internal principles, only the external ones? Uh huh.'

[golden arhat]

ur the idiot ?


well ....yes basically

u are the guy who recomends letting ur face go limp while u get elbowed

nuff said really

[RonH]

That's it? I do understand the appearance appeal of leaving your point 'short and sweet' like that and that is often a good thing when you've explained your stance well previously. Your problem is that you haven't explained your stance well, which is supposed to be the opposite of mine, which is what you keep saying. You don't say any evidence, taking your stance to be the de facto one. You even don't give any underlying principles for your stance. No one is above not giving underlying principles. Your continued insistance to mock is not a substitute for evidence or underlying principles.

And what about any of the other points I made? That there's more to a fighting style than stick and move, bob and weave. Anymore repartee about my accent? Are there any questions in the back of your mind about what else I feel is appropriate (as I have stated previously) when fighting multiple attackers, being able to take being in a heavy bag that's being kicked and punched or taking an elbow to the face with a minimum of damage? I know those questions are in you.

I've already given my position, as well as provided some (but not all) of my reasoning for that position, some of the underlying principles and how they can be achieved. I'm still wondering when you'll do the same as I.

[golden arhat]

look

its plain and simple really

going limp when u get hit is a sure way to be sent to accident and emergency

go and train mma and fight with one of those guys and try and use all your fancy cr@p there

i tried before
it simply doesnt work

i believe yielding with a blow has its use rediecting etc i do (well i did, before my injury) use these principles alot

moving out of the way pushing punches over and around etc
i quite like taiji and i think it has alot to offer

i think ur understanding of it is flawed

yielding doesnt mean letting your face go limp to absorb a blow it means pushing the punch out of the way
or stopping the elbow pushing it back and launching ur own attack

tho u may have attached yourself to this taoist well lets say it ...dogma
there is also alot to be said for the direct exernal and simple approach of blocking etc

both different sides of the same coin
just because u favor yielding doesnt mean u have to take it past the point of logic and let your body absorb elbows to the face

it doesnt work simple as

if u can get a video of u taking an elbow to the face going limp and coming off just fine then i'l glady watch it and believe u

again tho yielding has its purpose it wont stop u being run over and dying
come on be honest

if u are hit by a car and yield and relaxed u will still die or get seriously hurt
u know this to be true

[Knifefighter]

This message is hidden because RonH, with his completely clueless posts, is on your ignore list. You will never have to read his inane statements again.

Ah, I love the Ignore option.

[Pork Chop]

ahhh man....
no offense to myjhong people or the johnny lee org, but i believe the clip speaks for itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrpACwkpQ44

i like kung fu.
i think there's good stuff there to take away and use.
sorry, i just can't drink the multiple attacker koolaid

i think situational awareness is a much better topic of study.
using a little can help you control just fighting one guy at a time, or keep you from getting into many-on-one situations in the first place.

[RonH]

Now, there you go! I knew you could do it, if I was patient with you. :) This is what I'm talking about. Not just posting 'it sucks because I say so' posts. And some were quick to put you on a pending list. :p


look

its plain and simple really

going limp when u get hit is a sure way to be sent to accident and emergency

go and train mma and fight with one of those guys and try and use all your fancy cr@p there

I have. One thing that you get from going limp with ground fighting, is that you conserve energy during the times when you need a very quick blast of it. Another (amongst other things) is that keeping the muscles and tendons in a particular part of your body loose and limp lets them bend further than you would normally expect. You can use this to free yourself from joint locks, like ones on shoulders. You can twist your shoulder around more and slip it out easier.


i tried before
it simply doesnt work

Can you give me an example? There might be something I've used myself that you might be able to use, too.


i believe yielding with a blow has its use rediecting etc i do (well i did, before my injury) use these principles alot

What kind of injury?


moving out of the way pushing punches over and around etc
i quite like taiji and i think it has alot to offer

i think ur understanding of it is flawed

Are you referring to my premise of increasing the elastic limit of the body, as well?


yielding doesnt mean letting your face go limp to absorb a blow it means pushing the punch out of the way
or stopping the elbow pushing it back and launching ur own attack

To use the word yeild, I'd define it as not putting up a resistence to an incoming force. In this instance, it would mean letting the body part struck move with the incoming force. Now, because of the connection the other parts of the body have with the body part struck, that would mean increasing the flexibility/elastic limit of not only the body part struck, but the nearby and connected tissue, as well.

This is what I meant earlier when I said letting the body flow around an incoming limb or weapon.


tho u may have attached yourself to this taoist well lets say it ...dogma
there is also alot to be said for the direct exernal and simple approach of blocking etc

True, that is, but given that it started with the idea of me being put into a heavy bag and closed up in it, while said bag was kicked and punched, I can't put a limb up because I can't see where the attack is coming. And listening for voids of sound, which is where blidnfighting could come in, would be defeated because there is an overall decrease in surrounding sound because I'm zipped up in the bag.

Now, that being said, there is the flip side of the methodology I would use. Letting the body go limp for passive work is coupled with the active work of remembering that I have the self-control to not let my elastic limit not reach its limit (causing me major damage) and that while I'm struck, I should do my best to continue to let my body move around and away from the incoming attack.

Let's look at a couple examples. Say I'm in the bag, my knees are about 6 inches from my chest and my shoulders are pushed a little forward because of the shape of the bag. Shaolin Wookie is outside the bag and he punches at my left shoulder and I feel the force move my shoulder to my right.

What would be required of me is that, just as when I get struck by a force when I'm outside the bag, I need to move my body with the force of the incoming punch. And, at the same time, move my shoulder away from the direction of the force of the incoming punch, out to the side of the force's path. I could end the shoulder move by making it follow a circular path, as I bring it back to the position it was in before it got hit. Now, that's gonna require that I move my upper body to my right, which might require some turning of my hips, depending on how much room I have to maneuver inside the bag. I might be able to use my toes to help push my hips up a little, as I press them against the side of the bag.

For another example, say Shaolin Wookie did a heel kick, which landed on my upper back. As soon as I felt pressure on my back, I need to make sure that it feels like the muscles of my back and shoulders relax and spread out and I push my shoulders back a little, around his foot, as I lean forward. I'd push the air out of my lungs as quickly, as possible, while pushing my diaphragm down.

It takes a little time, but you can get your body to reflexively 'flow' around an impact.


both different sides of the same coin
just because u favor yielding doesnt mean u have to take it past the point of logic and let your body absorb elbows to the face

If one is to take it to the face and have a minimum of damage afterwards, yeilding and staying limp and flexible, while you move away is the best way without trying to block it with a limb.


again tho yielding has its purpose it wont stop u being run over and dying
come on be honest
if u are hit by a car and yield and relaxed u will still die or get seriously hurt
u know this to be true

It is much larger than you, so you have to turn your body, so that you roll over it. You passively let it move under you, but you would need to be active in making sure that when upon the windshield, you don't just slam right into it. But, to do that, you'd need some trail runs first before the real thing.

[RonH]

i think situational awareness is a much better topic of study.
using a little can help you control just fighting one guy at a time, or keep you from getting into many-on-one situations in the first place.

Situational awareness is also important in defending against multiple attackers.

[Shaolin Wookie]

i laughed at this. if your kung fu school doesnt train a punch to come in at different angles and kicks then you are missing out. its experience of the teacher too.

a good kung fu teacher should teach you about all aspects of fighting. you shouldn't have to be an mma mark. of course this means you have to find a teacher who has actually fought which 90% of them out there have not.

i see to many schools practicing things and are like, "if it comes in this way you do this" blah blah. that will teach you to get your ass kicked. you should be able to block and use any move instead of just 1 set of blocks and counter.

Every teacher teaches defenses for attacks coming fromm all sorts of angles. Here's the problem. If he teaches you how poor a haymaker is in structure, and where it's weak, he never develops a haymaker. I've seen people with devastating haymakers. This NHB dude that was giving me tips had a wicked one. It was his KO, F you up, I'm not playing anymore-punch.

If you keep practicing defenses against a haymaker, and never throw one, you won't develop it. No wonder it will suck and have weaknesses.

You can't honestly sit there and tell me this isn't true about a lot of CMA.;)

[Shaolin Wookie]

And I'm supposedly the idiot?

We have to feed trolls, but of course trolls feed us a little. The only difference is, we take a polite break in the convo, excuse ourselves, and throw that nasty-tasting ordure up in the bathroom, wipe our mouths, and politely decline from eating it again.

As for the idiot part. I'm not saying you're an idiot. But I wouldn't say you're not an idiot.


Okay, okay, you're an idiot. Happy?;)




There is more to fighting styles than 'stick and move' ideas. There's philosophy, culture. Each area of the planet, even with increasing globalization, still has characteristics that are distinct within themselves for all parts of that area. This includes fighting abilities.

HAhahaha.........there's more to the art. Not to fighting. Fighitng is always visceral. The art isn't always so. Make that distincition, then come back and talk your jive.


1) You waste your time by calling me a retard.

You're assuming we wouldn't have spent that time calling someone else a retard.
You're here, blatantly retarded, and unaware. So we're calling you a retard to save time in searching for other retards. I believe we owe you some thanks. Thank you, for being a retard. It's appreciated.

[Shaolin Wookie]

ok, but if you really want to get on the Official List, you're going to have to try a lot harder than that...

So, can we rehash the list yet?:D

And I'm usually a pretty nice guy, I think.

[Shaolinlueb]

You can't honestly sit there and tell me this isn't true about a lot of CMA.;)

oh it is true. it is sadly true. there are so many bad schools out there.

[RonH]

We have to feed trolls, but of course trolls feed us a little. The only difference is, we take a polite break in the convo, excuse ourselves, and throw that nasty-tasting ordure up in the bathroom, wipe our mouths, and politely decline from eating it again.

As for the idiot part. I'm not saying you're an idiot. But I wouldn't say you're not an idiot.


Okay, okay, you're an idiot. Happy?;)

You need to meditate. You'll find that if you exercise a certain amount of self-control throughout the entire day, you won't have to waste your time worrying about throwing up, so you can get to where you were before. And, if you do meditate already, you have the meditating skills of an amateur. Buddhism can be good for you. There's a lot in there about ending your suffering.

[lkfmdc]

You need to meditate. And eat granola. And then you can be just like me! A clueless idiot!



this just in!

[bodhitree]

RonH goes a little beyond troll


new label





























































































Deuche

[Shaolinlueb]

Deuche

a big bag of it.

[golden arhat]

this just in!


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

u should recieve an award

seriously

[RonH]

RonH goes a little beyond troll
new label
Deuche

Popularism from the peanut gallery doesn't help the arguments of Shaolin Wookie or golden arhat. A dog pile mockery does nothing to change the substance of what's actually said by them. Whatever the reasoning you've got for doing such a thing, it isn't working. You, and every other person that's doing the same thing in this thread, are failing miserably.

You need to get rid of your debating F game and try to go for something higher. Pretty much anything would be an improvement over this drivel. Even not posting anymore in this thread is an improvement for you, but I don't see it happening.

[cjurakpt]

Ron and Neal should get togther...can you imagine the two of them having a conversation?

[bodhitree]

sorry for my behavior


Popularism from the peanut gallery doesn't help the arguments of Shaolin Wookie or golden arhat. A dog pile mockery does nothing to change the substance of what's actually said by them. Whatever the reasoning you've got for doing such a thing, it isn't working. You, and every other person that's doing the same thing in this thread, are failing miserably.

You need to get rid of your debating F game and try to go for something higher. Pretty much anything would be an improvement over this drivel. Even not posting anymore in this thread is an improvement for you, but I don't see it happening.




































DEUCHE

[cjurakpt]

I think we may be updating the Official Do Not Reply To List very soon...

[bodhitree]

RonH (aka DUECHE)

why don't you just go e.d. and let the insult bounce off of you, uh, I mean limp:rolleyes:

[cjurakpt]

RonH (aka DUECHE)

why don't you just go e.d. and let the insult bounce off of you, uh, I mean limp:rolleyes:

bodhi: just out of curiosity, if I decide to post direct links to other threads illustrating why I think that RonH is beyond hope when it comes to having a normal discussion (like this one: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47322&highlight=chi+stories&page=2) or if I cut and paste stuff summarizing our interrractions (like here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=789176&postcount=104) and he gets all bent out of shape (like he did here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=789403&postcount=129) and complains to the mods, do you think I'm going to get in trouble?; mind you, this is all hypothetical, I'm not actually posting links (like this one: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=786466&postcount=23), only wondering if I should be more prudent in the future, instead of behaving in a way that he considers irresponsible? (such as linking to here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=788468&postcount=11)
anyway, just asking...

BTW, am I the only one that get the irony of this thread's title yet?

[brianK]

cjurakpt: You seem angry. You should ask Ron to send you a long distance qi ball of bliss. You'll start spontaneously healing everyone around you; it'll grow exponentially until billions are healed. Ron once told me to have a nice day, and a week later there was no more cancer in India.:eek: Your skepticism is really holding you back.

Brian- Just kidding. Ron never told me to have a nice day.;)

[lkfmdc]

cjurakpt: You seem angry.



how do I seem?




You should ask Ron to send you a long distance qi ball of bliss.

You'll start spontaneously healing everyone around you; it'll grow exponentially until billions are healed.



I can send you a ball of something if you give me a postal address. Everyone around you will instantly be aware of it, the local cats will even start to howl, we'll just call it "chi" for now





Ron once told me to have a nice day, and a week later there was no more cancer in India



and Ron cited that event as evidence of his theories in 12 different threads

[brianK]

Yeah, man, I was trying to be ironic or something. I guess since Ron hasn't put me on his ignore list yet, it's not clear what I think of his claims; but earlier this week he made some condescending remarks about healing my "hinderances", and that was what I was referencing. I'm on your side, and I like that san da for MMA program you've got going on.

Brian

[lkfmdc]

oh, I was just being funny (and difficult) and I like to pick on RonH

[cjurakpt]

cjurakpt: You seem angry.
it's true - and because of my anger, RonH is able to maintain power over me (like he says so, here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=792549&postcount=48)


You should ask Ron to send you a long distance qi ball of bliss. You'll start spontaneously healing everyone around you; it'll grow exponentially until billions are healed.
or at least I'll be sitting up straighter...


Ron once told me to have a nice day, and a week later there was no more cancer in India.:eek:
yeah - everyone had already died of malnutrition, malaria and AIDS...


Your skepticism is really holding you back.
the definition of skepticism I prefer is that one allows any long standing belief to be instantly disregarded when new evidence comes to the fore showing why a different way of thiking is actually the correct one (and I'm still waiting on that one); implying that ultimately one always has an open mind to the possibility of one's beliefe system being changed radicaly in a moment

[brianK]

lkmfdc:I thought you got it, just wasn't sure. Dry wit can be a little hard to pin down over the interweb.

Brian

[brianK]

cjurakpt: I'm a proud skeptic, myself. I think there is definitely value in some neigong/qigong/meditation practices, but we can only extract that value if we approach it in a non-dogmatic way. Claims about distance healing, and lin kong jin being able to easily drop Fedor aren't helping anyone. I'm not interested in Ron's qi balls (or any other of Ron's balls for that matter). I would like a bit of what he's been smoking, though.:D

Brian

[cjurakpt]

cjurakpt: I'm a proud skeptic, myself. I think there is definitely value in some neigong/qigong/meditation practices,
I agree wholeheartedly - I consider myself living proof they have benefit, but it doesn't justify susending one's ability to reason...


but we can only extract that value if we approach it in a non-dogmatic way.
bingo - otherwise it's self-aggrandizement (Trungpa's "spiritual materialsim" is an applicable term as well)


Claims about distance healing, and lin kong jin being able to easily drop Fedor aren't helping anyone.
again, my perspective is accountability - if I wasn't in the room when it happened, it can be attributable to just about anything else; Ron's amateur-hour perspective always seems to have a happy-ending that somehow works its way back to him - and he thinks he's not ego-driven...he still is laboring under the misapprehension that I care if he thinks the same things I do; and BTW, he originally offered to "teach" me about energy healing much in the same way he offered you "advice" about what was hindering you (we had similar responses) - in my tradition, we never offer anything directly if not asked - taking a page from the Buddha's habit of not opening his mouth until 2 AM only after being entreatied 3x - Ron on the other hand always seems just a bit too eager to help you, or the world, out for my taste...


I'm not interested in Ron's qi balls (or any other of Ron's balls for that matter). I would like a bit of what he's been smoking, though.:D
it's probably not cheap...

[bodhitree]

bodhi: just out of curiosity, if I decide to post direct links to other threads illustrating why I think that RonH is beyond hope when it comes to having a normal discussion (like this one: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47322&highlight=chi+stories&page=2) or if I cut and paste stuff summarizing our interrractions (like here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=789176&postcount=104) and he gets all bent out of shape (like he did here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=789403&postcount=129) and complains to the mods, do you think I'm going to get in trouble?; mind you, this is all hypothetical, I'm not actually posting links (like this one: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=786466&postcount=23), only wondering if I should be more prudent in the future, instead of behaving in a way that he considers irresponsible? (such as linking to here: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=788468&postcount=11)
anyway, just asking...

BTW, am I the only one that get the irony of this thread's title yet?

you shouldn't get in any trouble, at least I can't see any reason. I'm a mod and I'm calling DEUCHIE a DEUCHE

[RonH]

Yeah, man, I was trying to be ironic or something. I guess since Ron hasn't put me on his ignore list yet, it's not clear what I think of his claims; but earlier this week he made some condescending remarks about healing my "hinderances", and that was what I was referencing. I'm on your side, and I like that san da for MMA program you've got going on.

Brian

I've told you once before already that it wasn't condescension, as you thought it was. The hinderence I mentioned was done out of compassion for you. That's an entirely different thing. And, even with everything you've said in this thread, it doesn't change one bit of that compassion. All of it still remains with me.

[bodhitree]

I've told you once before already that it wasn't condescension, as you thought it was. The hinderence I mentioned was done out of compassion for you. That's an entirely different thing. And, even with everything you've said in this thread, it doesn't change one bit of that compassion. All of it still remains with me.


you're just a regular old monk aren't you



































































DINGLEBERRY

[RonH]

you're just a regular old monk aren't you
DINGLEBERRY

Why do you continue to act in this fashion? Even when I'm showing concern for someone I don't know or haven't even met face-to-face and have barely spoken with at all, you still want to try to make me feel insulted? I'm beginning to think that you really just can't stand me being nice to or getting along with anyone to any degree on the board. It's a shame that you want to be this irrational.

[SaintSage]

Why do you continue to act in this fashion? Even when I'm showing concern for someone I don't know or haven't even met face-to-face and have barely spoken with at all, you still want to try to make me feel insulted? I'm beginning to think that you really just can't stand me being nice to or getting along with anyone to any degree on the board. It's a shame that you want to be this irrational.

I call BS.

Your compassion is pity. You think are better than the other people, you think you're "more enlightened" in someway. You call your perspective "less narrow" but talk as though your perspective was flawless as that of God or Dao. You speak to the forum as though you are a wise old man who has blessed us by coming down from the mountain. You try to sound wise, but your words are filled with arrogance. Your mountain is your ego, and you're not coming down, you're only rising higher and higher. We can barely even hear you now.

[golden arhat]

I call BS.

Your compassion is pity. You think are better than the other people, you think you're "more enlightened" in someway. You call your perspective "less narrow" but talk as though your perspective was flawless as that of God or Dao. You speak to the forum as though you are a wise old man who has blessed us by coming down from the mountain. You try to sound wise, but your words are filled with arrogance. Your mountain is your ego, and you're not coming down, you're only rising higher and higher. We can barely even hear you now.

agreed


10 characters needed

[Shaolin Wookie]

Why do you continue to act in this fashion? Even when I'm showing concern for someone I don't know or haven't even met face-to-face and have barely spoken with at all, you still want to try to make me feel insulted? I'm beginning to think that you really just can't stand me being nice to or getting along with anyone to any degree on the board. It's a shame that you want to be this irrational.

I agree, Ron H seems like a very compassionate man, once I meditate upon it. (I took your advice to heart, and now make a pilgrimage every morning 15 miles to Kennesaw Mountain, and meditate upon the grandeur of the mountain landscape). I was very impressed with the way he made himself soft when Bodhitree hit him with those insults, and thereby redirected that negative spiritual energy, hitting Bodhitree in the face.


Only, see, Bodhitrees are a kind of rubber tree, and Ron H practices sticky hands, so he's kind of sticky, and the insults just bounced back off Bodhitree , and stuck on Ron.

Please tell me what I should meditate upon, Ron H. I've been using some David Hasselhoff songs for koans, but I need some new material. He eats hamburgers, so I don't want this meat-eating to taint my Buddhist practices.

[lkfmdc]

we so clearly have a majority, let's just vote RonH off the island

(but first, we need to chain cinder blocks to both feet, put a hood over his head, find a bridge we can throw him off of...)

[yutyeesam]

we so clearly have a majority, let's just vote RonH off the island

(but first, we need to chain cinder blocks to both feet, put a hood over his head, find a bridge we can throw him off of...)

Only problem is, he'll reincarnate. You know, like Neilhytholt-->Lunghushan-->RonH-->?

[lkfmdc]

Only problem is, he'll reincarnate. You know, like Neilhytholt-->Lunghushan-->RonH-->?


you're right, we'll have to cut his head off, fill his mouth with garlic and pound a wooden stake into his heart, THEN throw him off the bridge

[Lucas]

no no no, you have to cremate and spread the ashes to the four winds.

[cjurakpt]

see, this is exactly what I was saying from the very first time he offered to "teach" me about "energy healing way back on our "what is chi" discussion: we disagreed about our respective approaches, my whole contenntion was that he lacked the training to understand how a professional handles working with people versus an amateur - his response was to tell me I didn't know enough about energy healing and offered to instrut me; of course, I declined, noting that I hadn't asked for instruction, wasn't interested in it, and clearly thought the whole thing was a load of crap to begin with

so now he's doing the same with others, offering them his services out of his boundless compassion

BS!!!!!

this is not compassion, it's an ego-driven superiority complex; Ron doesn't use his powers for good ;) he uses them as a way to make believe he is superior - and the way he does it, it's typical energy healing BS - the old "I can tell something deep and dark about you that you don't even realize about yourself"; he is basically so insecure that he has created areality in his mind where he personally is responsbile for people "spontaneously" resolving old illnesses just because he "sent them energy"; it's quackery of the highest order, charlatanism at its best - fortunately, he's the only one being bamboozled, since he basically does this without their knowledge! :confused::confused::confused:

the sad thing, he seems to think I and others actually take himseriously and that we post in hopes of trying to get a response out of him - hey Ron-o - I know you're not gonna respond to me, I don't care - if I write something, it's because it's fun to basically play along with your little troll game, that's about it; what's more, as I suspected, even when I "broke" your little rule about posting links to out chi discussion, what did you do? tell on me like you said you would? all talk...

now let me point out something funny - when he first got all "I am not going to talk to you anymore because you said mean things to me", it was just a few of us, before a larger number of people started responding to him - me, Dave, KF and 1bad5 were blacklisted because we called his BS for what it was; interestingly enough now, he's on to round two of this, with a whole new group of people (Shaolin Wookie, Golden Arhat, BrianK, Bodhitree, SaintSage) calling him on it the same way, and some insulting him way worse than we did (well, ok, be fair, except Dave...) - now instead of ignoring them, he's actually taking it - why? simple - because he realizes that it's not just a few stray voices but the entire crowd who think he's a nut job and that he's running out of people! at this rate, putting anyone who "offends" him on ignore will mean in short term he'll have a blank screen when he signs ono the forum

anyway, his trolling m/o was fun for a while - it was like Neal on 'ludes; but now it's just getting boring...

[yutyeesam]

no no no, you have to cremate and spread the ashes to the four winds.

From a Folger's tin, Big Lebowski style.

[Lucas]

The Dude Abides!

[lkfmdc]

well, ok, be fair, except Dave...



Chris, you are angry and insensitive, and I am insulted, so I am NOT going to ignore you, but you need to meditate, on the meaning of granola in your colon and upon what it is like to hug a tree while wearing an adult diaper, then you can understand the Dao as it really is, and become one with it all

[cjurakpt]

Chris, you are angry and insensitive, and I am insulted, so I am NOT going to ignore you, but you need to meditate, on the meaning of granola in your colon and upon what it is like to hug a tree while wearing an adult diaper, then you can understand the Dao as it really is, and become one with it all

Dave, your compassion is boundless, but if I deconstruct your motivation, it is abundantly clear that you are envious of the fact that I need a size 108 diaper to contain my "tree"; as for the rest, my colon is just fine, it sends you its fondest regards...

BTW, is NealH going to respond to this or is he just going to lurk and watch as his whole little world comes crashing down around his ears? will I be able to sleep tonight if he doesn't? curse himand his unholy powers...

[RonH]

I call BS.

Oh, it is a shame you, too, have allowed yourself to be this way.


Your compassion is pity.

No, it's sympathy. If you look at the definitions of pity and sympathy, you will see they are not the same. It is not my fault you want to strip the specific and blatant context that I have used and replace it with another.


You think are better than the other people, you think you're "more enlightened" in someway.

We are all more enlightened than everyone else in our own way. So what?


You call your perspective "less narrow"

Because it is. That isn't my fault.




Being edit:

Let's take an example from the last page, okay?

cjurakpt: 'now let me point out something funny - when he first got all "I am not going to talk to you anymore because you said mean things to me", it was just a few of us, before a larger number of people started responding to him - me, Dave, KF and 1bad5 were blacklisted because we called his BS for what it was; interestingly enough now, he's on to round two of this, with a whole new group of people (Shaolin Wookie, Golden Arhat, BrianK, Bodhitree, SaintSage) calling him on it the same way, and some insulting him way worse than we did (well, ok, be fair, except Dave...) - now instead of ignoring them, he's actually taking it - why? simple - because he realizes that it's not just a few stray voices but the entire crowd who think he's a nut job and that he's running out of people! at this rate, putting anyone who "offends" him on ignore will mean in short term he'll have a blank screen when he signs ono the forum'



Because of his far more limited perspective than mine, he lumps all these discussions I've had with many others together and says they should all be on my do no speak with list. His more limited perspective disregards the truth. The truth that the disussions were not the same. This here is nothing about ego. It's about fact. Objective fact. Facts, which cjurakpt is incapable of seeing because of his more limited perspective. He thinks it has something to do with whether or not someone thinks I'm a nut job or offends me. That is furthest from the truth.

End edit.





but talk as though your perspective was flawless as that of God or Dao.

That's a hasty assumption on your part. I have never outright said or suggested in the slightest that my way is completely and without a doubt the best way over any other that has ever been, currently is or ever will be.

Take the examples of being in a heavy bag or taking an elbow to the face. The methods I have described in part are what I would do. It has no baring on whether it is the only true way to do it or not, nor is it a reflection on what someone else might do. Both examples were presented to me and asked what I specifically would do.

You are adding a context to what I have said. What you might read as a view that is flawless is actually me being able to stick to and support my positions, while the other side mostly throws food from the peanut gallery because they are unwilling, for whatever reason, to produce a substantial counterargument. They believe in yelling down the competition, where the majority has purview over what is correct in the objective and absolute sense. Where strength is not taken from substance of thought and deed, but in numbers, regardless of what that shared view is. To confuse the issue and make enough noise that those that don't hold their view will go silently away and they can feel good about themselves because of their 'victory'.

I will say this. In my opinion, this post of yours that I'm quoting is actually one of the better posts in this thread for some time.


You speak to the forum as though you are a wise old man who has blessed us by coming down from the mountain.

I have a lot of knowledge and experience, as do a lot of others on this board. They come, they discuss. There's nothing that says I can't do the same. If I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able to have made my first post or any other post since.


You try to sound wise, but your words are filled with arrogance.

That's only because you are placing my words in an arrogant context.

I am curious as to what you think of the others in this thread? The ones that post altered pictures in an effort to ridicule me. The ones that twist what I say around into something I specifically didn't say and then, mock the alteration. The ones that are displaying the actions of 'me, tooers' by dog piling their contempt in loud and obnoxious ways. What of them? Do you give them a free pass because you think I'm arrogant?


Your mountain is your ego, and you're not coming down, you're only rising higher and higher.

My ego is my ego. A mountain is a mountain. For an analogy, this could have been better.


We can barely even hear you now.

Then, why do the lot of them keep quoting me, accurate or not, and posting a response? If it really was true that they can barely hear me now, they wouldn't be making these posts in response to what I say.

[bodhitree]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that you are a nutty, irrational, goofy, liar.

and of course a








































































DEUCHY DINGLEBERRY

[lkfmdc]

Oh, the shame you, too, to have allowed myself to bbe limp this way. All I want is sympathy. If you ever looked at me, once you stopped laughing, you would pitty me. I have a club foot and only one eye. It is not my fault the kids after school used to strip me and throw me into the lake. Why do they treat me like an idiot?

Because I am. But that isn't my fault.

OK, it is....


how many characters consitute 10?

[RonH]

I think what everyone is trying to say is that you are a nutty, irrational, goofy, liar.

and of course a

What you don't understand is that it's not about that at all, regardless of how many times I say it and regardless of how I say it.

[lkfmdc]

I think if RonH took up Shaolin Do and then challenge Rudy Abel to a fight, this thread would be a lot more entertaining, as of now, he's a bore

[DPL]

Pretty much guaranteed anytime somebody tells you they're more open-minded than you are, they're trying to convince themselves.

Everybody thinks they're more open-minded than the general public, just like everybody thinks they're better-than-average drivers. Doesn't play out too well logically, though, does it?

'Open-minded' is one of the premier bullsh!t terms of all time.

[cjurakpt]

welcome to the dingleberry zone - please leave all sense of reason and logic at the door; enjoy the ride!

[Shaolin Wookie]

I think if RonH took up Shaolin Do and then challenge Rudy Abel to a fight, this thread would be a lot more entertaining, as of now, he's a bore


I'd challenge him to a thumb war, if he didn't have such oppressive power over me, because of my insecurities.

[RonH]

Pretty much guaranteed anytime somebody tells you they're more open-minded than you are, they're trying to convince themselves.

Everybody thinks they're more open-minded than the general public, just like everybody thinks they're better-than-average drivers. Doesn't play out too well logically, though, does it?

'Open-minded' is one of the premier bullsh!t terms of all time.


Except, in my case, I have demonstrated that I am. I haven't posted altered pictures intended to mock, I haven't called anyone names. I've even given some of the evidence for why I have my position, which is far more than the opposition's 'believe me because I say so' reasoning. That isn't evidence. I've shown a much larger amount of respect and civility to the others and their views on this board, including my detractors, than my detractors have been showing me for some time.

I am not the problem here.


Edit: Let's look at an example from this thread, okay?

The reason why I started this thread was because of Shaolin Wookie and I starting to talk about multiple attackers in another thread. I foresaw this discussion going on for a bit so I started a new one, quoting the relevent parts from the other thread and replying to his last post.

It had started primarily on my perspective on fighting groups of people, primarily based around the idea of energy conservation. For me, a miss is still a miss, regardless if it's 1 inch, 1 foot, 1 yard, etc. etc. SW said that he felt a large burst of force is good at the beginning and taking out one person, preferably the smallest, to make it easier to look like you were really really powerful. I said that keeping them close by would let you use them as a shield, as SW believed you should do, too, but I said a small effort to deflect an incoming attack would let you still use them as a shield, as well as preserve your energy stores longer. The question became how being soft would let you defeat people, with SW asking if his heavy bag beats him every time. I had explained the long lasting feature of a heavy bag and the need to protect your hands when you use a heavy bag. SW suggested I get in a heavy bag and see how well I last. I started to explain about increasing the elastic limit of my body to be able to take more punishment. golden arhat suggested that I wouldn't be able to take an elbow to the face. I continued to explain how increasaing the eleastic limit of my body would help in taking an elbow to the face.

And even after I have said specifically that questions have been put to me on how I would do certain things, I have said that I never in the slightest suggested that my way was the only way. But, the others int his thread keep acting like I had said that.

If I am asked to give my way of doing something, I need to give my way of doing something. Not someone elses. And, after even doing that there have been several people in this thread that dismiss the idea, saying essentially that my way won't work when they haven't even tried my way. On the other hand, I have tried their way. For me, I found a different way, but that doesn't mean their way could let them do the same thing to the degree that that way would produce the desired results.

I have said my way works, as can another. They have said my way can't work, only theirs. I have shown how my way can work, without denying theirs can, too. But, they refuse to show how their way is the only way. They chose to mock and flame bait and post altered pictures to dog pile their contempt. This is not open mindedness.

[Shaolin Wookie]

I am greatly indebted to your candor. Your wisdom is as a finger, pointing towards the poon.

Do not concentrate on the finger..........

[golden arhat]

Do not concentrate on the finger..........



i'm pointing a finger at something


guess which one

[Shaolin Wookie]

i'm pointing a finger at something


guess which one

I used my woman's intuition: the left one?

[golden arhat]

I used my woman's intuition: the left one?

uhhhhhh yeahhh

:confused:

[Shaolin Wookie]

uhhhhhh yeahhh

:confused:

I don't have woman's intuition.......

Hence, the joke.:rolleyes:

[golden arhat]

I don't have woman's intuition.......

Hence, the joke.:rolleyes:

oh yeahhhhh

sorry

i'm stupid liek that :)


actually i've decided i'm just gonna call everyone who i think is stupid on here "Ronh"

so yeah


i'm ronh like that :D

[brianK]

Personally, as a poor deluded sentient being, I feel blessed to have an obvious Boddhisatva of RonH's level taking such compassion on me.:rolleyes: Now I've got to go back to training my cheek bone to yield.:D

Brian

[DPL]

Except, in my case, I have demonstrated that I am. I haven't posted altered pictures intended to mock, I haven't called anyone names.

I think you have a very close-minded attitude towards the value of mocking and name-calling.




I think I've even given some of the evidence for why I have my position,

Bent over, grabbing your ankles?



which is far more than the opposition's 'believe me because I say so' reasoning. That isn't evidence. I've shown a much larger amount of respect and civility to the others and their views on this board, including my detractors, than my detractors have been showing me for some time.



Respect and civility are highly overrated. Give me rude and funny any day of the week.



I am not the problem here.


Somewhere there's a miscommunication on the meaning of either the term 'I' or 'problem'. Possibly the terms 'not' and 'here' as well. Perhaps these should be defined in the glossary.



Edit: Let's look at an example from this thread, okay?


Okay!



The reason why I started this thread was because of Shaolin Wookie and I starting to talk about multiple attackers in another thread. I foresaw this discussion going on for a bit so I started a new one, quoting the relevent parts from the other thread and replying to his last post.



The force is strong in this one.



It had started primarily on my perspective on fighting groups of people, primarily based around the idea of energy conservation. For me, a miss is still a miss, regardless if it's 1 inch, 1 foot, 1 yard, etc. etc. SW said that he felt a large burst of force is good at the beginning and taking out one person, preferably the smallest, to make it easier to look like you were really really powerful. I said that keeping them close by would let you use them as a shield, as SW believed you should do, too, but I said a small effort to deflect an incoming attack would let you still use them as a shield, as well as preserve your energy stores longer. The question became how being soft would let you defeat people, with SW asking if his heavy bag beats him every time. I had explained the long lasting feature of a heavy bag and the need to protect your hands when you use a heavy bag. SW suggested I get in a heavy bag and see how well I last. I started to explain about increasing the elastic limit of my body to be able to take more punishment. golden arhat suggested that I wouldn't be able to take an elbow to the face. I continued to explain how increasaing the eleastic limit of my body would help in taking an elbow to the face.

(My bold above). LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Stop. Seriously, please stop. I just snorted tea all over my computer and I think it may have damaged something.

It's at this point that I think you must really be Mega-Foot, because no one could post the bolded sentence above and expect to be taken seriously when talking to anyone who's ever fought, wrestled, sparred, or, really, breathed.




And even after I have said specifically that questions have been put to me on how I would do certain things, I have said that I never in the slightest suggested that my way was the only way. But, the others int his thread keep acting like I had said that.



Not nearly as much as they initially tried to help you to see how the stuff you wrote would never work in the real world. When you persisted with your Candyland Theories, they very naturally resorted to mockery and name-calling.

It was the only possible solution.



If I am asked to give my way of doing something, I need to give my way of doing something. Not someone elses.


Yes, the logic there does seem unassailable.



And, after even doing that there have been several people in this thread that dismiss the idea, saying essentially that my way won't work when they haven't even tried my way. On the other hand, I have tried their way. For me, I found a different way, but that doesn't mean their way could let them do the same thing to the degree that that way would produce the desired results.



But the way you describe your way sounds like an easy way to get waylaid by anyone with a will and a way to assault you, because your way doesn't weigh out very well on the scale of martial ways to defend yourself.



I have said my way works, as can another. They have said my way can't work, only theirs. I have shown how my way can work, without denying theirs can, too. But, they refuse to show how their way is the only way. They chose to mock and flame bait and post altered pictures to dog pile their contempt. This is not open mindedness.

So open-minded people can't mock others? That's a pretty stringent definition. Same ol' same ol' - anyone who behaves in a way (get it? 'way'? you like that word A LOT) that you don't like, you say is close-minded.

I stick with my original verdict - you're very clearly trying convince yourself of your own worth, and one of the easiest and least-assailable positions to take is that you're more open-minded. Hope it doesn't get too drafty this winter in that straw house.

[RonH]

I think you have a very close-minded attitude towards the value of mocking and name-calling.

Because the intention of this thread by me was for there to be an honest, open debate without fallacious logic, including mockery, name calling and mockery have no business being here. That isn't being closed minded.


Respect and civility are highly overrated. Give me rude and funny any day of the week.

But, it isn't about you.


Somewhere there's a miscommunication on the meaning of either the term 'I' or 'problem'. Possibly the terms 'not' and 'here' as well. Perhaps these should be defined in the glossary.

I've seen wittier comebacks in the junk in the tissues when I've blown my nose, while having a really bad cold.


(My bold above). LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Stop. Seriously, please stop. I just snorted tea all over my computer and I think it may have damaged something.

It's at this point that I think you must really be Mega-Foot, because no one could post the bolded sentence above and expect to be taken seriously when talking to anyone who's ever fought, wrestled, sparred, or, really, breathed.

It is the height of hubris to think that just because you, anyone you know of or think you know can't do something, that there is no way any one could do it.

The reasoning of the common folk is so much easier to work with than reality.


Not nearly as much as they initially tried to help you to see how the stuff you wrote would never work in the real world.

Ha! When you call evidence 'because I say so' and the rest of the claimed evidence is mockery, this is when I feel pity instead of sympathy.


When you persisted with your Candyland Theories

If there really was a decent counterargument to what I said out of any of the posts here, I'd actually consider it. The peanut gallery throwing food and booing is not evidence.


they very naturally resorted to mockery and name-calling.

Did you really think the peanut gallery was capable of anything other than mockery and name calling? That's very sad for you. That is precisely what the peanut gallery is for.


It was the only possible solution.

The usual thinking of those that require others to agree with them to make themselves feel better about their views. I've seen it a lot in my life. It leads to nowhere because it's a crutch.


But the way you describe your way sounds like an easy way to get waylaid by anyone with a will and a way to assault you, because your way doesn't weigh out very well on the scale of martial ways to defend yourself.

Of course, when you only take the few things I've said. I've already stated that this was only a part of what is require. To explain the rest would have taken more time. But, everyone else in this thread didn't want to take the time. They preferred to be more like the peanut gallery.

This, too, is not on me either.


So open-minded people can't mock others?

When one shows they have no desire to be and chooses flame baiting and other forms of fallacious logic, they demonstrate for all that they are not open minded. Actually proving and then, mockery is another issue completely. They couldn't even do that. And I do mean actually proving. Not this pansy a$$ 'it's true because I say so' drivel.


That's a pretty stringent definition.

It's a definition based on logic. Your problem is with logic. Go call it names.


Same ol' same ol' - anyone who behaves in a way (get it? 'way'? you like that word A LOT) that you don't like, you say is close-minded.

You've missed where I've said I don't have a problem with anyone not agreeing with me. As well as deliberately ignoring what I have said in this thread alone. I don't want followers. I hate sychophants, like those that have been posting in this thread. I have no need for a peanut gallery.


I stick with my original verdict

Then, you choose to remain in ignorance. One day, the swift hammer of the truth will hit you on the head.


you're very clearly trying convince yourself of your own worth, and one of the easiest and least-assailable positions to take is that you're more open-minded. Hope it doesn't get too drafty this winter in that straw house.

Given that you can't even be accurate about anything I've said, it is no surprise you're having problems with the truth. And given that I have spent enough time slumming with the common folk of those that have posted in this thread, I have repeatedly shown that I have yet to see anything resembling a true counterargument. That all I get is responses that are all the way down there with 4th graders.

So, until there actually is a true counterargument in this thread against what I've said, I see no reason to revisit this one anymore.

[DPL]

So, until there actually is a true counterargument in this thread against what I've said, I see no reason to revisit this one anymore.

I win! I drove him off! You may all thank me later...

[cjurakpt]

I win! I drove him off! You may all thank me later...

you have passed the first test, young Jedi; now you must drive him off of the forum entirely to achieve true mastery...

[RonH]

I win! I drove him off! You may all thank me later...

Oh, the simple thinking continues to run rampant. How is that I could know if there is a decent counterargument, if I don't actually open the thread? You haven't driven me off of anything. Nor has anyone else. All I've done is said that I'll reply to a decent counterargument. Paying attention would be a big step up for you.

[golden arhat]

Because the intention of this thread by me was for there to be an honest, open debate without fallacious logic, including mockery, name calling and mockery have no business being here. That isn't being closed minded.

But, it isn't about you.

its not their fault if the find u amusing now is it
they diswcussed it
determined that ur full of **** and gave out the appropriate mockery


I've seen wittier comebacks in the junk in the tissues when I've blown my nose, while having a really bad cold.

are u mocking his mocking skills ?

ah ah ah bad boyyyy


It is the height of hubris to think that just because you, anyone you know of or think you know can't do something, that there is no way any one could do it.

The reasoning of the common folk is so much easier to work with than reality.


so now we aree common folk ?

and that makes you what ?
not common ?

above us maybe?


Ha! When you call evidence 'because I say so' and the rest of the claimed evidence is mockery, this is when I feel pity instead of sympathy.

maybe his evidence is plain common sense

common sense from common folk i guess huh ?

are u pitying us because we have different views and u are so far above ?

jesus christ get over yourself



If there really was a decent counterargument to what I said out of any of the posts here, I'd actually consider it. The peanut gallery throwing food and booing is not evidence.


theres a peanut gallery ?

i just thought it was a group of ppl who all felt the same was about ur BS


Did you really think the peanut gallery was capable of anything other than mockery and name calling? That's very sad for you. That is precisely what the peanut gallery is for.


so everyone who's argument is against yours is part of the peanut gallery

tht must be a very large crowd
its weird how we all feel the same way



The usual thinking of those that require others to agree with them to make themselves feel better about their views. I've seen it a lot in my life. It leads to nowhere because it's a crutch.



yes where as u just try to convince yourself that u agree with you

and now u are free from the crutch of similar likeminded ppl who feel the same way on a subject

will u teach me ?



Of course, when you only take the few things I've said. I've already stated that this was only a part of what is require. To explain the rest would have taken more time. But, everyone else in this thread didn't want to take the time. They preferred to be more like the peanut gallery.

This, too, is not on me either.



i have already explained my niews on this peanut gallery

on another note

who wants peanuts ?


When one shows they have no desire to be and chooses flame baiting and other forms of fallacious logic, they demonstrate for all that they are not open minded. Actually proving and then, mockery is another issue completely. They couldn't even do that. And I do mean actually proving. Not this pansy a$$ 'it's true because I say so' drivel.


u dont know these ppl u cant pass judgement on the state of their minds


are u saying i have fallacious logic ? :eek: i'm offended how dare u mock me in this honest discussion

and its not true or false at all its opinions

u keep talking about how we should all give evidence
well we cant

we just all have a sense of reason and agree with each other

so what ?

ur the only person that can give evidence here

make a video of u getting elbowed in the face and not going limp
then examine the results

then wait a bit
and get elbowed in the face and use ur whole limpness thing

and look at the results with an impartial MT guy being the guy to elbow u both times

if ur right then it will be self evident
lack of bruising non broken nose
etc





It's a definition based on logic. Your problem is with logic. Go call it names.


so the definition is logical
so what he says makes perfect sense ?

yay


You've missed where I've said I don't have a problem with anyone not agreeing with me. As well as deliberately ignoring what I have said in this thread alone. I don't want followers. I hate sychophants, like those that have been posting in this thread. I have no need for a peanut gallery.


thats fair if u dont want sycophants u sure picked the right place

hell ppl are saying the direct opposite of wht u are saying


Then, you choose to remain in ignorance. One day, the swift hammer of the truth will hit you on the head.

is that a threat ?


Given that you can't even be accurate about anything I've said, it is no surprise you're having problems with the truth. And given that I have spent enough time slumming with the common folk of those that have posted in this thread, I have repeatedly shown that I have yet to see anything resembling a true counterargument. That all I get is responses that are all the way down there with 4th graders.

calling someone a 4th grader is mocking

hypocrite

and everyone has adressed what was said and mocked u for what u said because they found it amusing

argue back it is an argument after all its




So, until there actually is a true counterargument in this thread against what I've said, I see no reason to revisit this one anymore.

i almost cried a little

thankyou merciful god

[golden arhat]

Oh, the simple thinking continues to run rampant. How is that I could know if there is a decent counterargument, if I don't actually open the thread? You haven't driven me off of anything. Nor has anyone else. All I've done is said that I'll reply to a decent counterargument. Paying attention would be a big step up for you.

awwwwhh and u said u were going !!!
:mad:

[cjurakpt]

awwwwhh and u said u were going !!!
:mad:

Neal?.....

[brianK]

I wish I had more time to debate the troll, but John Takeshi showed up at EF today, and his troll fu is deep and requires much attention. Between that and the UFC, I'm all booked up tonight.

Brian

[cjurakpt]

I wish I had more time to debate the troll, but John Takeshi showed up at EF today, and his troll fu is deep and requires much attention. Between that and the UFC, I'm all booked up tonight.

Brian

you noticed that, right? I was surprised to see him - looks like he took some people unawares at first - Iwas going to post a warning, but figured let him have some fun (that should make it apparrant how fun and games oriented I am!)

actually, I'm surprised that RonH hasn't put in an appearance there - he'd find more than enough people willing to subscribe to his outlook and / or debate him ad absurdum in a manner more to his liking

hey Ron - do us all a favor - go play with some people who will appreciate you - obviously we are just a bunch of hoi polloi ingrates:
http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi

[brianK]

EF guys are more savvy than you think, and I'll bust that little troll right quick if he shows up just like I did with John.

Brian

[DPL]

EF guys are more savvy than you think, and I'll bust that little troll right quick if he shows up just like I did with John.

Brian

You won't be able to bust him, because he'll go all elastic on you and none of your strikes will be able to harm him. There's a rumor he can even withstand a Gene Ching crotch kick by making his privates go limp, so how could you possibly stand a chance?

[GeneChing]

Whacha gonna do when they come for you? READ The Multiple Attacker Quandary (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1605)by Phil Humphries

http://www.kungfumagazine.com//admin/site_images/KungfuMagazine/images/ezine/5032_Multiple-Attackers_Lead.jpg

[YinOrYan]

Whacha gonna do when they come for you?

How about the counter-intuitive defense of getting your back to a wall? that is, to cut down the number of attackers that can get close. One master I trained multi-attacks with even recommended backing into corners, so we would pick-off one attacker at a time...