Wah Lum first form and Taiji beng bu

[Tainan Mantis]

In the middle of WL first form is a move where you step diagonally to the right and punch, then you step diagonally to the left and punch.
It looks like you are punching two people. I was surprised to see how Mantis 108 does it against one person.
Or I should say I was surprised to see what that partner would do to make me want to punch in those 2 different directions.

This move in first form is almost exactly the same as a move at the beginning of Taiji Beng bu (WL beng bu has it too but a little different).

It is one more instance making me think these styles may have something in common.

[isol8d]

Intriguing.

How does Mantis108 move as the 2nd person? If I am thinking of the same part of WL 1st Form, there are blocks preceding the 2 punches, meaning Mantis 108 would attack, and be blocked, followed by the first punch, he would move to his right, attack, be blocked, followed by the 2nd punch.

Where are his attacks coming from? What sort of attack?

[Joe Mantis]

Tainan Mantis

Definately love to hear how Mantis 108 moves to initiate the second punch.

I'm trying to summarize things from anothe thread.

1. WLPM is showing a closer relationship/similarities to TJPM than
7*?

2. Is Shui Shao a style of PM boxing?
3. What does Paul mean when he says that one cannot see Shui Shao except when touching hands, as opposed to doing the single set?

This is very interesting and need some clarification.

Thanks for your help.

[draco]

>Or I should say I was surprised to see what that partner would do to make me want to punch in those 2 different directions.

Using my imagination, maybe it is two kicks from right to left or vice-versa from an attack from one person. The defence will be up close with the block and strike downwards, a shot to the plevis area or inner thigh or some pressure point not explained.

For the kicks maybe simulated (left and right) in the later part of 36 hands. Although the movement in 1st form certainly seems like two people to me.

Can you explain youself and Mantis 108 futher? in this situation?

[Joe Mantis]

Tainan, Paul or Mantis 108

Sorry guys I had to go back to the closed thread to read some stuff.
Paul I guess I should have asked you what some of this means since you generously shared with us.
However I'm happy if any of you can clarify for me.

If Shui Shao is an older style of mantis it predates which other styles?

it seems that many styles derived from Mei hwa.

unfortunatly I don't speak or read chinese which puts me at a disadvantage.

any clarificaion/corrections are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Mantis

[mantis108]

let there a kick! LOL This is fun, guys. :D

I am not familiar with the WL forms, so I can only compare the 7 star and TJPM.

I think I have made that comparison awhile ago of the beginning of the 7 star Bung Bo and TJPM Bung Bo. Basically, you will see from an ariel view that 7 star fan out to the left first (Gwa Fu Bu Tsui) then to the right just a bit almost back to middle (Pu Chan) like an inverted V. TJPM starts with a kick in the middle and then fan out to the right palm strike and then fan out to the left and manits back hand to the rib (both done with Gwa Fu Ma) like a V. There is a book on the TJPM form availble. So you can reference it that way. Anyway both style in the openning fan out like this way / \ except stance are different (in order and direction) and the strikes are not the same. TJPM does the Pu Chan after the fanning out. The 7 star one sort of cuts out one step or two.

In the 2 men, 7 star parries income punch and punch back, then Pu Chan. During all this time the opponent will be facing you directly. So it is pretty straight forward.

TJPM 2 men first intercept the incoming punch, kicking the shin and palm strike (lock or break) the opponent's elbow. That's 3 moves in one. The opponent would then responded by doing a spinning back fist. This is where you fan out to the left and intercept the back fist and strike the rib with manits back hand. Right at this potion you have already utilized at least 3 of the 8 strikes area (Baat Da) - Middle of Shin, elbow joint, and floating rib. If the opponent still doesn't understand you do not want to "really" hurt him so far and still coming at you, then you will hit one of the 8 forbiden area with the following move. That is out of topic here so I won't be getting into it. One thing of note is that should the mantis back hand land on target, it should have enough force to disturb the breathing pattern of the opponent.

Another difference is that the 7 stars 2 men starts within punching range. So there is no time but to parry and punch right away. It would seem that the 7 star version is ready to maim. TJPM's version starts off beyond kicking range and there is a entry method. TJPM's version looks like a "friendly" match between 2 high calibur martial artists. ;)

Hope this help. :)

As for the oldest style of PM, I think I will open a different thread on it.

Regards

Mantis108

[draco]

I should be thinking of what I'm having for supper, rather than what to do in a situation. :D