In Regards to The PaulLin Post

[8StepStudent]

I have closed this thread because of constant complaints to me by various members. I believe that both sides have stated their veiwpoints and are only becoming more destructive with every new post. In my opinion, if you truly don't believe that Master Sun is the real thing then go and talk to him. Master Sun doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. He knows what he knows and focuses on keeping the system alive not on petty little fights.

[EARTH DRAGON]

If I may I would like to say that I dont think that closing the thread was needed. We were just having a disscussion about the finding out the truth. Something that many people want to hear. Paul lin was very respectful with his posts and responses as were most of us. It seems as though when we start talking about legitimacy topics someone always has to close the thread? Or change the subject. Is this becuse we are afaid to find out the truth? I for one would love to hear from other people and other lineages veiws on this touchy subject. REMEMBER I was the only one on this board who actually studied with shyun kwan long HE is my sifu and every one elses master or a student of a student. So I am very curious as to know what the real story is. I have been in 8 step since 1990 and am ranked as a sifu in the system, but I would sure love to know if that ranking is acknowledged and acepted by all praying mantis families and not just by the american chinese martial arts federation. A federation that shyun formed. If this is so than my ranking can be worthless in the eyes of other lineages which would not be good for anybody. Is there a way to really find out? I sure would like to see some proof.......

[Tainan Mantis]

Destructive name calling threads are an embarrasment that prevent the productive flow of useful information.

Have you seen some thread concerning WL and PL. I forgot the name, but there is more than one.
Some people are having a heated debate, no problem there, but others are dropping profane comments just to insult others.

If ever a thread should be closed...

[Tainan Mantis]

Hey,
I just realized my new thread about GM Wei's bullwhip has vanished.
This question was prompted by the article about 8 Step in your latest magazine.
Is this an off limits question?

[yingching]

I have to agree with ED and Tainan Mantis, that was a very poor decision to close that thread. This is a open forum. There are some people posting on these threads that should be removed. Perhaps someone should go back and reread the thread....
Thumbs down 8 Step Student...
Ying Ching

[EARTH DRAGON]

The problem is that 8 step student is a student of a student of shyun's and the board moderater. Therfore anything remotely negative said about shyun is immediatly locked for fear of finding out the truth.

Tainan, If you remember I asked you about shyun kwan long when we met. I was impressed with your knowledge and repected your opinon. You also live in taiwan so I thought you would have a good idea of the real history. You told me what you told me and I have keep that close to my heart and also in the back of my mind. I am one of his students and love him very much however in the last 2 years he has showed me a side of him that I do not love so much and alot of contraversy has arisen since the birth of this forum (some healthy some not) however it is a chance to converse with other people around that world that I would never have had the opportunity if not for this forum so I would like to get the real story and the entire truth about the generation, lineage, dicipleship, tudi, closed door student and whatever else that has been eledgely hidden from us.

I do not feel like this is in any way wrong and should not be a locked topic.....unless of corse there is something to hide???????

If you compare this to any other thread you will find that with the exception of 1 we were open and honest, mature and proffesional in our disscussion. I have read threads as tainan and yingching said that are name calling, vulgar, rude and insulting .. We however were just responding to a actually very nice and humble "paul lin" who to me seems like a very good person and has much to share, but by closing the thread makes our federation seem automatically guilty of hiding the thruth....... 8 stepo student please respond and give us a honest reason for your quick and unthought about action............

[argentino]

I think Mr. Lin has been respectful with his comments. I would be interested in reading more of what he has to say about this issue.

You can read a lot of good stuff about Mr. Sun everywhere and I am interested in reading the other side of the story too.

If you are looking for a thread to close, go to the Wah Lum one !!!

Censorship in the USA ? What a shame !!!

Best regards

Fernando
www.geocities.com/mantiscave

[8StepStudent]

A complaint is a complaint. If I receieve a complaint, it is my job and duty to amend the situation in a professional manner like I did. Feel free to speak your "professional" minds, but what you're mistaking is personal with professional. Calling someone a liar like you did ED is not professional or respectful. If he has done so to you, then so be it, but don't take out personal grudges on the net. Do so on your own time. Yes, I am a student of a student of Master Sun's but I have let threads proceed that ask professional questions about Master Sun. The thing is here that people don't get it, if you want the answers, then just ask Master Sun himself. All of you are elusive in your posts. Anyways. Remember the rules of the board and please follow them. I'm not here to be people's friends. I'm a moderator. That is my job.

[yingching]

I am curious 8 Step Student if you actually read the thread.
There were some very harsh words used by someone against Paul Lin? Perhaps you missed that. This person was trying to set up a fight?
This is not the only thread that this same person started problems on.
If you are going to be a moderator, then moderate. Don't just close threads that hit close to home.
Ying Ching

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

8StepStudent
Where were you when I was trying to recommend guidelines for staying on topic when posting. Your e-mail didn't even work. I had to contact Liz Mantis and according to her the moderators have no authority to do anything but censor profanity. Is it ok to essentially call the head of the Wah Lum system a fake but not ok to insinuate the same about the head of 8 Step? I had to ask everyone to voluntarily stay on topic and refrain from insults name calling. What's going on here?

[PaulLin]

Ok then, if you want to close this, I can totally understand. You have setup this forum for another purpose and not espect this to come out. If you think calling lier is bad enough, I don't think the lier himself will think so. The lineage form the people who where dead long ago is not trace-able anymore. Any one can make legend out of them. But what I have know is that I have seen Shyun's father working in the park by the pool side with my own eyes, GM Wei have corrected me on postures with his own hands when I was 8 years old. GM Wei never lived on mountain once in Taiwan (you can trace on the record in local gov. in TW on where he has lived). You can also ask any people who known Shyun's family and GM Wei and see what they think of this. Shyun's father is Shyun Chiu Huai. He used to work in the park with Chang Hsiang Sheng(as a policeman in park). Chang has a son in 30 yr old, named Chang Yung Chuan. They should know them well since seeing them and talk with them every day. The park is called Chih Wu Yan. Shyun's source of 8 step is form my father's kungfu brother Su Kun Min(or Su Yi Zhang). Not a formal student of Su. Make up form books and other sources. I will say it is very helpful for any one in the world to know all these skill exists but for a true and real arts, Shyun cannot provide.

And yet, I felt like it is all wast of time to repeat all those thing too. I will not go any further on this issue. From now on, I will only focus on the techniqes and requirements of the real things and all of you, the ones who really are practicing for a better skills, will see if I am giving the real thing and you can compare that to what ever Shyun has given on your own.

There I will give you my words, no more Shyun's discussion form now on will be heard form me, not even with any one poke me with that issue again. If any one have question on that issue, sent them private.

[Skarbromantis]

Ha In Lash- Very good point's!!

Earth Dragon should have been ****ed, Paul was talking bad about his Sigh, but instead he responded in a non offensive
manner....

Now STACEY!!! (because no one wants to say HIS/HER
name) is the trouble maker ..BAN HER/HIM!!!!

8 Step open your eye's

Daniel

[Skarbromantis]

Ha In Lash- Very good point's!!

Earth Dragon should have been ****ed, Paul was talking bad about his Sifu, but instead he responded in a non offensive
manner....

Now STACEY!!! (because no one wants to say HIS/HER
name) is the trouble maker ..BAN HER/HIM!!!!

8 Step open your eye's

Skard1

[EARTH DRAGON]

WHAT??????????????????

you are a moderater and thats your job???

whats your job to close threads that you PERSONALLY find offensive. simply becuse you dont agree?
you are going to lose your moderater position for thinking like that.
I have talked with gene ching on this matter and YOUR JOB is to moderate profanity, vulgar language, threats and other foul things . Not to moderate what you feel is non professional or a topic for your desscression. you are a joke and should be a little more open minded. Let me guess too tall kevin told you to close the thread so people wouldnt find out the truth!

You are part of the tarnishing of shyun stlye 8 step and you havent a clue about the real truth so stop trying to police and hide the shame that follows .............

I think we need a moderater that is not so biased and brainwashed that you cannot make a rational decsion......

YOU have not posted anything in a long time but yet you crawl out of the woodwork to lock a thread becuse you dont agree??????

I think you need to look again at the responsibilties of the moderators hand book and stop trying to be a hero.

PS shyun has lied to you too but you havent figured that out yet $#^#*&^)(*&^)*&_&$$#^)*&^

[8StepStudent]

Blah blah blah. What you speak is a bunch of gibberish to me. If you really must know, I have not gone to class in three months so everything you say means nothing to me. All those who question my decision then so be it. Like I said before, a complaint is a complaint. I have edited out posts in Wah Lum thread before. I closed the thread which means people can still look at it. Oh yeah! I'm trying to hide everything. Oh man! The secret is out! I'm screwed! Come to think of it. If I was really smart... I would delete every post that talked bad about Master Sun, but I guess I'm not that smart. Have a nice night. By the way ED, you read my mind. I did close the post because I didn't agree and not because I received a complaint about it. Silly me.

[BeiTangLang]

8step, Calm down a bit. Critisism has been mild & you are over-reacting as a Mod. People complaining is a common thing. I am a mod on several boards & understand your feelings but something you must consider before closing posts is; Is the post violating any rules of the forum? Is the information being presented in a hostile manner or just the replies? (if just the replies, then maybe membership priveleges should be looked at rather than closing a thread that is informative).
Look at your last post. I know mods are human & have feelings, but, come on,....honestly, please reconsider posting when you are stressed. I have the same fault & have restricted my own posting because of it.
If you cannot control yurself when it comes to these issues, then maybe you need to consult with the other mod before taking actions.
Note: I am not flaming you, but hoping to give some advice as one mod to another. Best wishes,
Bei Tang Lang

[EARTH DRAGON]

My hat goes off to you!!!!!!!!
I just hope that other people see it that way (clears throat)
you see the problem is that he is a student of a student of master shyuns and when anybody starts to find out the truth about his shaded past and public lies the federation goes crazy and makes harsh descions. I should know! I am in the federation and when I stared learning qigong from Yen Chu Feng
(who shyun introoduced to me) I was told that I could not study under her and shyun at the same time or I would have my sifu ranking revoked. and if I didnt pay him 100 a month I would be sued for using the name 8 step praying mantis. The system in which james shyun says he owns............

So when anyone finds out a little truth the people in the federation do everthing neccessary to keep that info from us. Even closing threads that relate to his actual teachings. it just so happens that 8 step student is one of those guys. KEVIN LOFTUS told him to close the thread NO ONE COMPLIANED. Funny but the only people that were involved with the thread have all asked why it was closed .... excpet for STACY who by the way is a young student of JACK SKUTNIK who is the NJ federation rep in shyun style 8 step praying mantis.. SEE how sh**tty this is????????

Just a typical move from a confused brainwashed student.

By the way 8 step student who complained?

And who do we complain to about you?

It seems as though you have taken your privledge and abused it. and I will see to it that you cannot do that anymore. This board is to disscuss, compare and share. Granted if there were some irrational responses on that thread I would be the first to try to set them straight and I would complain to the moderator as I have done before, But there is no good reason why you closed that thread other than what I have expalined to you and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[8StepStudent]

Thank you for the friendly advice BeiTangLang. It's kind of hard not to get worked up when you say the same thing over and over and the people who it pertains to don't even listen. The complaint I received via E-mail was a complaint about Earth Dragon. Perhaps I should look into his membership privileges. He falsely accuses my instructor of telling me to close a thread when I did so on my own will and brings his personal problems onto the web instead of confronting the people he has them with. To me this is nothing but being a puppet and a coward, but who am I to speak. I have apparently been brainwashed. Keep posting people and please keep on hiding behind your computers and being puppets. Don't confront the people you have problems with. Instead talk behind their backs and remain cowards. We're martial artists and we pride ourselves on not stepping down from a challenge and these people won't even talk to the people they have problems with. Martial artists, I don't think so. That's all I have to say about that. If you have any complaints to make about me or me as a moderator... Please do so. I have the proof to back up that my actions are justifiable.

[EARTH DRAGON]

WELL if that wasnt the most hippocritaical thing I have ever heard. You are a joke!

Let me get this straight, you said... and I qoute""

he brings his personal problems onto the web instead of confronting the people he has them with. To me this is nothing but being a puppet and a coward,

Is'nt that exactly what you just did? you brought your personal opinons to the web in stead of confronting me... But yet you blame it on a email? you are a liar! how do I know that ? simply read the thread again, and you will see that I actually responeded with courtesy and professionalism, STACY was the one who did the name calling to paul lin and just like you ...becuse it was not what he wanted to hear.

Besides being a liar you are a hippocrite. You stated that I accused your instructor of telling you to close the thread , however I never said that until after you closed the thread so STOP LIEING!

You are the one who has personal problems and you blame other people for your actions. and You also jeporized the thread for eveyone else simply out of selfishness and lack of backbone.

If you want to be a men confront ME..... isnt that what you just said?????? you call me a coward but yet you do the same thing. It isnt fair to others to close a thread just becuse your EGO is hurt.

And rememeber YOU cannot take a way my privledges you are but a mere board moderator and cant tie your shoes without permission.
Plus every other post from me is helpful, kind , knowledgeable and caring so GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!

[BeiTangLang]

As a mod,..here is what I do when I reply to something I have strong feelings about. Write the message that you plan to send after reading the replies. Minimize it for an hour or so & go do other work. come back & re-read what you initialy had written & modify heavily :D
To me, the issue is not who said what to whom, but why was the thread closed at all. The Paul Lin post, like it or not was not derogotory nor defaming except for the childish replies made by "Stacy". Paul Lin did make statements presented as "fact". The only counters to the "fact" statements from him were childish "Oh yeah??", "nuh uh!" & other un-founded things. I am not an Earth Dragon Fan, but he presented himself well in this thread & was behaving relatively mellow & respectful to those that were honest in their replies & comments.
If there are those that have truthes to share, let them come. Rebuttals should be more than "youre a liar" & such.
I hope I am not angering everyone with my posts here, but as a neutral party that was just observing, I felt a need to voice my opinion.
Best of luck to everyone & may you all find your paths in truth; Whatever that truth may be.
BTL

[EARTH DRAGON]

I never asked anyone to be a fan of mine but I do repect others on this board and would like the same in return. I would have to ask for other members to come to my defense and speak on my behalf, also I would like to get down to the bottom of this long ongoing topic. which as I stated before is about MY direct sifu not one of his students students students....

I will admitt that my posts to 8 step student were a little harsh and they might hurt his feelings and I apologize for that , however by using the excuse that someone complianed about me is NOT TRUE, if it is then what may I ask did they complain about? as skarbro mantis said I should have been pi**d off by what paul lin had to say but actually It was just the opposite and I was very interested in his words. It was stacy who acted irrationally NOT me so the part/excuse about the complaint about me for basis of closing the thread are apperently made up to justify 8 steps fly off the handle reaction.

Again I aplogize if it was my actions that gave reason to close anything on these boards.. I would just like some proof!!!!!!

8 step can you show me that proof?????????????? or are you just mad at the content and or direction of the thread and used me as a your personal scape goat? PLEASE ANSWER

[Ye Gor]

Isn't there a moderator's moderator? Someone with 'top' authority? Why not just have them make a decision on whether that thread (whatever it is) was closed wrongfully or not, and go by that?

And that decision will kinda-sorta set policy from now on and let the mod and the others know what should be expected from this forum.

Would that be 'professional' enough for everybody?

[EARTH DRAGON]

I have been in touch with the administrator and the top brass on the site and they are checking into it. I just hope that this kind of thing can be prevented in the future.

[China Village]

I would just like to say that I agree with Earth Dragon on all of this. I've read many of his posts, and although (in my eyes) he seems a bit egotistical, all the replies I've read from him are helpful and professional. Talking about revoking his membership by anybody in even a remote position of power seems illogical. Look at me. I've never said anything nice about anybody, and I'm still here. There are many others out there just like me. If he gets kicked out, most of the registered users should get kicked out. Just my opinion.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thank you china village,I appreicate it.

Funny thing is that I have been waiting to hear back from 8 step student but have not been succesful.

He is the moderator but yet he has his email blocked so that you cant contact him.

He also has his private message disabled so you cant reach him that way either. NICE MODERATOR.

He comes out only to lock threads that he doesnt agree with and blames it on other members...