Hi Empty Cup

[mantis108]

"I have heard of Tai Mantis. It is a blend of Northern Shaolin and some other mantis correct? What is it in Cantonese? Tai Chi Tong Long?"

Tai Mantis is an organisation headed by Sifu Paul Eng who studied under Grandmaster Chiu Chuk Kai of Tai Chi Praying Mantis. Tai Chi (Cantonese) is also romantized as Taiji (Mandarin). So Tai Chi Praying Mantis (TCPM) or Taiji Praying Mantis (TJPM) is the samething. Tai Mantis is somewhat of a shorten name used in the early days (70s - 80s) in the US for promotional purposes. Offically, it is either TJPM or TCPM but never Tai Mantis which is an organisation only. But then if students of Sifu Paul think of Tai Mantis as a style, then it really is up to them.

"There is also another one called Grand Ultimate Fist Praying Mantis which ALSO is called TaiChi Tong Long"

Taiji Tanglang (Taiji Praying Mantis) is translated as Grand Ultimate Praying Mantis. There are a few different views concerning the name.

According to Sifu Ilya Profatilov, praying mantis (the style) is known as Mei Hwa Taiji Tanglang (Tanglang for short) in Shandong province, China. Taiji Praying Mantis, which is used to designate the Tanglangquan mostly practiced in Lai Yeung county by the family or desciples of GM Liang Xue Xiang. Mei Hwa is mostly used to designate those school in Yan Tai county. A lot of the schools there were students (not desciples) of GM Liang. Except GM Jiang Hua Long who brought quite a few "indoor" stuff to the outside world. Taiji Tanglang is so named because it is considered the first Mantis style as in Taiji being the primordial /postmordial state (everything spun out of there). Incidently, there is evidence that Tanglangquan was originally known as Mei Hwa Taiji Quan (created in Shandong province) which has nothing to do with Taijiquan (created in Henan province). Tanglangquan was perhaps coined by Shandong people to match other animal based styles such as Eagle Claw and Black Tiger. It has catched on widely. As you can see, this caused a lot of confusion. Regardless of Mei Hwa, Taiji or whatever designation, the Mantis Kung Fu is a big family.

"And Chiu Cheuk Kai's too... "

GM Chiu Chuk Kai, who was my grandmaster whom I have the great fortune to train directly under, was the one of the few master who brought NPM to the south. He brought Taiji Praying Mantis from Yantai, Shandong to places like Canton, Macao, Vietnam and HK. Now in HK and Vietnam, if you mention TCPM, people mostly will think of GM Chiu's TCPM. Today to identify ourselves we would go by CCK TCPM as there are many other TJPM branches such as Sifu Profatilov's.

"Which is what??? I am so confused...is there anybody who can clarify this for me? Do any of them actually have Tai Chi Style in them, or does it just mean "Grand Ultimate"? "

TJPM as it is does not contain Tai Chi Style (or Taijiquan). CCK TCPM however does contain Tai Chi (Taijiquan and Taijijeung). This is due to the effort of GM Chiu Chuk Kai. In fact CCK TCPM has major influence of 3 different styles - Taizu Men, Taiji Tanglangquan, Taijiquan/Taijijeung. There are other stylistic difference as well but then that would be a long story. Hope this clarifies for you. For more information please visit our forum

TJPM Forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/Taijimantis/start)

Regards

Mantis108

[mantis108]

Hi Empty Cup,

"thank you so much for the EXCELENT info Mantis108 Finally my confusion has cleared. Just a few more questions then I'll stop bugging ya"

Glad to be of help. :) You are welcome. No trouble at all. I will be glad to answer any question that you might have regard our art.

"1) You trained DIRECTLY under CCK? Didn't he head a security service before? I noticed you're in NWT...pretty far away"

He worked in a security service escorting convoys when he was young. The owner of the company knew of GM Chiu's teachers' ability in the temple (2 monks). He worked there until the death of the owner which brought forth the closure of the company. This means that his approach to Kung Fu was shapened by his professional needs. It was acquired with sweat and blood.

I was on a student visa in Canada and was introduced to TCPM by Galen Fok who is a disciple of GM Chiu. I returned to HK and started to study under GM Chiu in 87 until his death in 91. He treated me as one of his very own students. There are quite a few others that are in similar circumstance as I. This shows GM Chiu's unconditional teaching. He was a man of big heart and mind. As for me being stuck in the north, it is just because of my job. If I have a choice, there is noway in heaven or h@ll that I will stay in this frozen h@ll. :D

2) I have heard that CCK Taiji Mantis practioners use a "trade-off" philosophy when fighting. That they take a blow to give a blow...is there any truth to this? It sounds extreme!!!

Ah, the article by Jane Hollander (?). :) I am not sure whom she interviewed. I think the article was done during the height of "point sparring" trend. So in a sense, IMHO, it is somewhat of a promotional point if you know what I mean. I am not going to speculate further but I will give you my unstanding of CCK TCPM. Althought we do practice Pai Da, which is a form of iron shirt, we do not "trade punches". We are not afraid of getting hit but it doesn't mean that we will purposefully ''trade off". But because of the Pai Da training, it would seem as though that no major hinderence even if we got hit. As we carry on with the fight as normal, it would perhaps give the feeling that we "trade off" punches. In GM Chiu's teaching, he quite often instilled the importance of countering without blocking or standing in the way of an incoming attack. The application of CCK TCPM are often described as fast pace chess game with Kung Fu. It is never brutish nor crude.

"3) There was a sifu from CCK lineage who taught in Toronto many years ago...you wouldn't happen to know any names would you? If yes, then I would be even more grateful! (Not that I'm not as it is... ) "

I think there are couple of people like Tommy Fung and Lee Chi Wai. May be it was Tommy Fung whom you are thinking of. I have not met neither of them since they have more seniority than I and left HK years ago. So I can not give you further info. about them. There is a larger contigent of CCK TCPM in Western Canada and in the USA.

"Thanks once again Mantis108"

You are most welcome my friend and good luck in your journey. :)

Regards

Mantis108

[Tainan Mantis]

Mantis 108,
Great post!
I was reminded how you evaded my punch and put your knuckle in my solar plexus. I was impressed with such precise timing and precision.

Emptycup,
I had the good fortune to have an 11 day sharing session with Mantis 108.
I would say the take a blow to give a blow doesn't apply to this style(maybe boxing).

Instead he has a very angular deflection defence with a simultaneus attack.

It seems that this method prepares students for perfecting the ability to defend by dodging and turning while attacking.
In fact, he was able to do this and you can't help laughing when getting hit this way as it is so clever.

[mantis108]

Tainan Mantis, my friend, thank you! *major blushing* :D

A compliment coming from an outstanding martial artist such as yourself is very very flattering. I am truely honored. I am sure the appreciations are mutual. Your Praying Mantis Kung Fu is amazing. I often wonder is there a bottom to your knowledge not to mention the power behind it. :)

Sincerely,

Mantis108