Neat article on the Deerhorn Knives

[Sam Wiley]

I found this neat article on the Bagua Deerhorn blades while killing time tonight. I love the ones with the recurved points on them, those are so awesome!

the article (http://www.bodymindharmony.com/deerhorn.htm)

Check it out, guys.

[RAF]

Sam:

Glad you found the article written by Andy Kuntz. He trains under one of my teacher's students.

The form is Ying Shou (tight hand, hard palm etc.) and can be played in a linear fashion and at the higher levels, you actually add in various circles from the 8 mother palms found in our 64 internal palm form.

We also have a longist form that GM Liu picked up.

I bought the VCD from China on the deerhorn form but its not the same. Su Yu Chang has a video on bagua and I beleive he includes the deerhorn knife form (it can be played as an open hand form).

http://www2.micro-net.com/~ycsu/Pakua%20video.htm

We also use the form to play the hooksword too.

BTW, thanks for your comments on the Death Touch! Just found it interesting what had happened.

[Sam Wiley]

No prob, man.

It's interesting that you mention practicing the deerhorn form as an empty hand form. Sometimes I practice my twin dragon sword form as an empty hand form. Doing so seems to enhance the feeling of flow, and when I started doing it empty handed, the way I did it with the swords changed a bit. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, I have been working on my own Bagua form for a while now, and one of the palm changes I designed is really influenced by the swirling movements of this sword form. The Chiang Jung-chiao form I learned is very tight and spiralling, whereas my own palm changes tend to be a bit more open and softer. Probably from my Taiji training.

Interesting to finally see what makes you tick, I guess.:)

[Sam Wiley]

There are several books available now that I have been meaning to order for a while now. Looks like I'm going to add this one to my list, probably the video to..:)

[Chris McKinley]

Hey Sam,

RE: "Sometimes I practice my twin dragon sword form as an empty hand form. Doing so seems to enhance the feeling of flow, and when I started doing it empty handed, the way I did it with the swords changed a bit.". I've done quite a bit of work with twin knives in my Bagua practice and, especially earlier on, I noticed the same thing. What I realized was the reason for it was that, when I was doing the forms with the blades, my Yi was focused almost exclusively on the blades. Therefore, my intent was not leading the qi throughout my body the way it normally ought to have been. My form LOOKED the same, but internally it was snoozeville...nothing going on. It took a bit of time before my spatial awareness of the blades blended itself into the Bagua forms. During this time, the movement was pretty much all Li-based, or external again, just like learning the forms empty-handed as a beginner.

Eventually, once the awareness of the blades was there sufficiently, it faded and only then did the blades actually and truly become "an extension of myself", as the typical saying goes, with all that that implies internally. Just my 2 cents on it.

[Sam Wiley]

Your explanation makes a lot of sense, Chris. I fully agree that that was the reason.:)

For a long time after nearly losing a finger to one of these blades, I did not practice them very often. When I started back practicing them regularly I no longer had the expansive space to do so, so I began supplementing the stunted training with the blades with practicing the form empty handed. Now I notice differences in certain movements, and movements that once felt rough and disruptive to the flow now are smooth and flow with everything else.

[illusionfist]

Sounds like you are transferring the continuity from the empty hand form to the weapon. Although i dont practice bagua anymore, when i did train it, it was vital that we had to keep the "linkage" going. I found this to be quite difficult at times, so i can see how it would be real difficult implementing them with the dear horn knives.

Peace :D

[Sam Wiley]

Yeah, the connectivity is important. I used to think I knew what people meant when they said weapons were an "extension," but I now know I didn't. It's begun to come clearer over the past year or so. Probably 50 years from now I'll look back and discover that even now I knew nothing.:)