View Full Version : Vegan/Vegetarian?

06-19-2001, 06:31 PM
Hi, just didn't want to carry on this conversation in the protein thread, as I thought it might be diverting a bit....
Basically if anyone who was reading the protein thread was interested in finding out what qualified doctors have to say about the vegetarian diet, along with famous olympic athletes who have been vegetarian check out this site:


I'm not going to get involved in a debate on the pros and cons of vegetarianism, but its just that I was interested and thought some other people may be too. The site also deals with other nutrients not just protein, can't really think of a way of keeping it up on the front page, so if you want to state what you think thats cool....
Please don't let it get tit-for-tat though...

03-07-2002, 03:34 PM
Ok, here goes...

I've been looking at it for a while. While it may sound good it lotsa ways.
But what I'd really like is to meet a vegetarian or vegan that has good muscle definition and mass, is healthy and dosent look all pale.
And yea, I have only known of a few, one in perticular was a vegan and was as pale as possible.

Its just that the idea sound good and all but I dont want to lose the muscle and definition i have, although great, but good and i want it better.

any thoughts?

03-07-2002, 09:39 PM
Hmm most vegetarians I know are pretty skinny, and incredible definition. Then there are those who look pretty terrible, sickly and dead (hehehe me!!). but man, those guys are strong!

I think the secret is that they eat lots of beans, nuts and substitute with loads of vegetable and fruit juices to keep them going. They tend to also snack loads.

I tend to not care so much about my intake, hence I'm sickly and half decomposed.

Good luck, from the half decomposing breathing pulp behind the screen.

03-08-2002, 09:30 AM

it's possible, bro. just swing over to seattle and check it out.

the key here is "bioindividuality". it's definitely easier for some than for others.

i've gone about 9 years without beef or pork. i also went about 5 years without fish or poultry. i was never a strict "vegan", but i didn't eat a lot of dairy. for most of that time i was VERY VERY active.

after 5 years though i noticed that i was really wearing down. after making adjustments with a bunch of things, i started eating fish again. it only took about 3 weeks before i really noticed a difference. wow. felt much better.

looking back, i think i COULD have made it work as a strict vegetarian, but it takes a lot of work, esp if you're really active. and i guess i wasn't willing to put in all of the time that was necessary.

in the end, i know some people who can be active, fit and strong with no meat whatsoever. and i know other people that if they go for one week without any kind of meat they get really fatigued. as a sidenote, i don't buy in to the "blood type" reasoning, however, it does point out just how much variability there can be between people.

03-08-2002, 10:58 AM
Since we are on this kind of subject...
Hey guys have you heard about people living without eating?

Or living only with "light" or prana or chi?

What is everyones thought on this. I just began researching about it.

03-08-2002, 12:37 PM
I'm a lacto-ovo-pesco vegetarian. Basically just a vegetarian that eats seafood.

I think the most important point in any diet is that you get a large variety of foods. And maintain a balanced diet.

My sister is vegetarian which most people think of as healthy, but her diet consists of tofu, cheese and bread.

Not very balanced.

She has trouble maintaining weight and at 19 her skin is always really dry.

In contrast I eat all kinds of stuff. And if your worried about calories take this into account, I'm 6'7" tall and 250 lbs.

I eat fish, shellfish, beans, grains, eggs (fortified with omega 3 fats), cheese, all kinds of veggies both asian and western, green vegetables, fresh herbs, falafel, fried tofu, pasta, etc, etc, etc......

You can really mix it up as a vegetarian.

Ford Prefect
03-08-2002, 01:30 PM
I believe Carl Lewis just wrote an article on being a world class athlete and vegan at the same time. I'm sure there are some others that have done it as well. If you want to then go for it.

03-08-2002, 01:49 PM

do you know if that article really exists??

being a long-time vegetarian athlete, i frequently looked around for "higher" sources (ie pro athletes talking about their vegetarian/vegan diet). what i found is that that information doesn't seem to exist. in fact, most athlete's who claimed they were vegetarian always had a caveat: stopped being a vegetarian during their season, consumed insane amounts of eggs or whey protein, etc... the one exception that you can occasionally find is endurance athletes. and maybe some bodybuilders. power/strength athlete's who are TRUE vegetarians seem to be few and far between.

and believe me, i WANTED to believe there were a lot of them out there.

once again, i think it's possible...for some people. adding fish back to my diet was enough for me personally. fu-pow hit it on the head...variety.

oh..and fu-pow..how many qualifiers can you put before the word "vegetarian" and still call yourself a vegetarian???? =) i'm just playing. i've been through all the variations myself...

Sevan...are you asking this question because you WANT to be a vegetarian? if so, ask yourself why you want to be one. it's easier to proceed after you've done that.

oh...and living off light or air (chi, prana, etc...) is an enormous feat. personally, i think it's probably POSSIBLE, but your yogic practices would have to be unbelievable to get there. i've witness some amazing things though, so i wouldn't count it out.

03-09-2002, 03:56 AM

I heard that many Daoist breathing exercises accomplishes many of the feats. But I don't practise, so I don't want to say anymore than that.

Bodhidharma walked to China with very little food, over the Northern Indian plain, the Himalayans, throught to China on VERY VERY little food. My thoughts, the less you think, the less you eat. D'oh, I need to eat again ! :D

See ya dude :)

03-10-2002, 12:45 PM
I asked stuff cos i saw on tv this woman talking about it, she says she doesnt eat for 3 years.

Here is the site:

Click on the top to the left you can choose English language.

From what i could understand she does a indian art since she often uses terms such as kundalini and prana, but the site also mentions qigong and uses the word "bigu" to living without food.

Do you think this people are doing this for real or is it just a cult that is making things up? I apreciate all your opinions.

03-14-2002, 05:52 AM
Both my wife and I have been vegetarian for more than 7 years. My baby boy, was conceived from vegetarian parents, and obviously also follow a strickt vegetarian diet. He is now 17 months old but he is physically and mentally as strong as a 2 and a half year old child. At the day care centre, the staff always show him off, telling everyone how amazing it is that he is vegetarian, and how strong and good health he is. Even his Dr is amazed.

I am over 6'4"and weigh 96 kilos. I run dayly, and work out at the gym. I eat healthy, and try balance my vitamin and miniral intake. Being a vegetarian does not really limit performance in an athlete. The MYTH that meat builds beter bodies can be disproven by basic science.

Meat products only contain some protien, VB12 etc. All these are also found in various types of veggies. It has been proven that some soya protien is also more superior to animal protien.

These days there are exelent vegetarian products on the market. You can get anything from stakes, to prawns, fish, chicken etc.

Someone said vegetarians are all pale. THAT IS REALLY NONSENSE! There is no scientifical reason why vegetarians should be pale either. it just doesn't make sense. I have seen some of these gothic kids who drink blood and even eat raw meat. If anyone, then they are pale.

03-14-2002, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by Eddie
Meat products only contain some protien, VB12 etc. All these are also found in various types of veggies. It has been proven that some soya protien is also more superior to animal protien.

I would love for you to show me this proof. Soy in no way is superior. I love the vegetarian "holier than thou" stance. Most of the true vegans I've met have been pretty sickly looking, and messed up in the head. I also find it amusing how popular it has become lately, all the ppl with cattle mentality joining the herd because it's fashionable. And then each vegetarian with their "holier than thou" attitude has their own specific set of rules. "oh I can eat chicken, or seafood, or I only eat red meat occaisionally." I find it truly amusing that they think they are better. What makes you better by only eating veggies? There is nothing wrong with eating meat, and it's a much more efficient source of protein and iron. Sure you can eat 50lbs of some veggies to get a good protein source but I doubt many vegetarians do, and that's why you see many thin vegetarians.

I truly don't care what you eat...but if you think you are better because you don't eat meat...or have other stupid rules because you can't even stick to your own vegetarian principles then you are wrong...and quite frankly, just talking out of your a$$.

Isn't it funny that you guys are still searching, or chasing rumours for just "one" pro athlete that is vegan? Go find one...then you can put him on a pedastel while the millions of others truly do adhere to a "balanced" diet.

One question to Eddie, when your son grows older will you allow him to eat meat if he wishes? Just curious.

03-14-2002, 09:03 AM
Im not sure where you are coming from. I never even implied I am better than anyone. Someone asked if being vegetarian is good, and I just told about my experience. I do understand the negativity around vegetarians though, because I have also met allot of people who become vegetarian, and then go off on everyone who eat meat or who wear leather products. I know, that’s not cool, but vegetarians have the same problems with people always harassing them on why they become vegetarian. Let all just be what they want to be.

I became vegetarian for very specific reasons, and I am not insecure about my beliefs. I don’t have to justify to anyone, why I made this choice, and I don’t condemn people who are not vegetarian. I respect and support every body’s beliefs.

If my son grows up and he wants to start eating meat, I will allow him to do so. At the moment, I decide for him, but I have no problem if he decides otherwise when he gets a little older. Tell me, did your parents force their beliefs unto you?

Veg protein is always found in many body building supplements. I have a transcript from a study from a University in Australia which compares soy protein, whey protein and meat protein. When I have time, I will type it all out for you to read. It mentions some pretty interesting facts. I have also seen some transcripts of studies which tried discovering if a vegetarian diet will be beneficial in case of chemical warfare as it is difficult to alter the biological structure of plans in such a way. Non conclusive, but so was the counter studies.

About vitamin intake and veggies, well, the proof is in the science. A good athlete needs a combination of various nutrients. Protein, Potassium, Vitamins, Iron, the list is endless. All of which, can be found in different veggies. If you have a balanced vitamin c / iron intake, you will not have to eat 50lbs of plants to supplement iron. Iron, can be found in many plant veggies. I have not yet seen any conclusive proof that indicates if vegetarians are all pale, sickly looking, crazy people. I have not seen any medical, scientifically evidence, that tells me that people who does not eat meat are less healthy than others. What does meat contain, which veggies don’t have?

Perhaps we should try see what makes a good athlete? Maybe we could type out one’s nutritional needs, and see which veggies could supplement it. This way, we could have people decide for themselves. Until then, your comments about vegans or vegetarians being sick and crazy are pure nonsense.

03-14-2002, 09:44 AM
Eddie my rant wasn't directly pointed at you but to about 80% of the vegetarians I've met. And only the true vegans have I seen that look sickly and are crazy. Although, it hasn't been all that many so I wasn't classifying everyone...but I haven't met a vegan that hasn't had the high and mighty attitude.

I would still be interested in the study though...

03-14-2002, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by Eddie

Someone said vegetarians are all pale. THAT IS REALLY NONSENSE!
In case you are referring to my statement, I said there are some (ie. myself) because I don't take care of what I eat. But those who eat a properly balanced diet with beans, nuts etc, are incredibly strong and healthy....

but I haven't met a vegan that hasn't had the high and mighty attitude.
You are absolutely right, I see that attitude in myself too, but I do it out of ignorance. Eat whatever you wish, in truth I respect it. Though I mightn't choose to have the same.

03-15-2002, 12:00 AM
no worries, I understand that there are some people who might be like that. Being vegetarian does not make you different to others. If they do have that attitude, then posibly their whole approach and philosophy is is wrong. But then again, i dont want to start a religious debate on an internet forum.

About the study, I will have time over the weekend to retype the main points over. I will copy and paste it in here for everyone to read. I also have many sports nutrition manuals with a lot of valueble info on this subject. I am more than happy to share.

no disrespect intended. What I meant to say is that I cannot understand why vegans or vegetarians would become pale. What exactly does meat contain which makes people not looking pale? As you said, if someone doesn't eat a balanced meal, this could happen, but this count for non vegans and vegetarians too.

In defense to non vegetarians, these days because of polution and over cultivation of lands, the veggies are starting to degrade in nutritional vallue. It is therefor good to look at an overall nutritional supplement. Yuo can suppliment not just only with vitamin tabs, but in many different ways.

03-15-2002, 06:53 AM
Cool...you don't have to type it word for word but try to get some of the science behind it in your post. Considering Soy is about the only source of protein to vegetarians I expect them to try and make it look good. So I will look at your info very critically...

Ford Prefect
03-15-2002, 07:34 AM

I read the article on the web somewhere. I'd do a search on Carl Lewis. I'm sure he has a web page. He is quite proud of his vegetanarian/vegan up-bringing. It's no secret.

03-15-2002, 08:58 AM
Ford...thanks! let me know what you find.

EP...**** dude, chill. what was that all about?? i understand the condescending attitude from "holier than though" vegetarians (because it IS truly annoying) but every group of people has their "holier than thou-ers". you seem to be as defensive about eating meat as ANY vegetarian i've met crusading to NOT eat meat. have you done it?? been a vegetarian, i mean. i've done both. i can tell you my own experience and what worked and didn't work for me. i don't need to talk about what the books and articles say. once again, there's a tremendous amount of bioindividuality out there. it's extremely difficult to talk about what's "right".

i know you are a truth-seeker at heart, so don't get so caught up in the emotional crap that's out there. "there is nothing wrong with eating meat" is as much of a value judgement as any other statement on this thread. as far searching for a particular athlete..doesn't that make sense? if you chose to be a vegetarian (for whatever reasons) and you were an athlete, wouldn't it make sense to see if there were examples of people out there who made it work? this isn't about what "millions of other people do"...this is about what decisions we as individuals make about our lives.

and by the way, when i added fish back to my diet, i stopped calling myself a vegetarian. i was joking with fu-pow because of all the qualifiers that people use though. it's just funny dude. nothing to get upset by.

having said all of that...i would agree that vegans in particular like to play the high and mighty game. so what? let them. it's their life. it's certainly not affecting me.

i'm sorry your experience with vegetarians has been so negative. hopefully it will balance out with cool ones in the future.

Eddie...your last point couldn't be emphasized enough...the quality of food these days is EXTREMELY POOR! and it's only getting worse. such a drag.

Justa Man
03-15-2002, 11:44 AM
vegan/vegitarianism is a dumb route. man needs meat. he's been eating it since he knew a from apple, and to go without it severly weakens the body and the blood.
here's some sh!t i bet all of you are not ready for though. eat your meat raw. whowever thought of taking fire....that which hurts like hell when you touch it, and putting it to food, that which nourishes the body? a dummy, that's who. you only damage the nutrients in your food when you heat them. every other species of animal eats their meat raw. humans just like the way it smells. nutrition is MOST important, taste second.
i recommend a completely raw food diet...or at least over 50%.
and to make sure your meat is organic. everything should be organic.

03-16-2002, 01:58 PM
raw meat???

okies i've had raw meat in sushi, but this is little wierd...

now one thing, in Deuteronomy that your not supposed to eat the blood, for the life is in blood.

now how would one have meat raw without having blood in it??

another thing we have to worry bout is parasites and diseases, bacause even ORGANIC meats are prone to PARASITES & such.
pork is increadibly prone to diseases and such...

now how bout that one?

btw, i'm not intending on being antagonistic, but have major questions on what you just said.

03-16-2002, 03:30 PM
I love vegan posts because I'm an annoying born-again vegan. It's 10 months since I started and I love it. St. Francis of Assisi - eat my shorts.

Xebsball - I saw a documentary on the Living on Light. The woman at the head of it has a daughter and the daughter said on camera that her mum was always eating - even mars bars. Complete rubbish, basically. I was a believer until I heard her and her daughter speak. She's like Oroboros the snake that eats itself - she has her head up her a55 and eats all the time.

Fish: the only essential food you find in fish is a plant protein that they get from lower in the food chain from seaweed and kelp. So you can get it fresh from the source rather than getting something chewed already by a fish, of all things!

To the original question - I'm having a hard time keeping my weight down as a vegan because of an addiction to nuts. Apart from a slight loosening around the middle (Christ, it's hit me that I am in my 30's 8-| ), I'm full of colour (or color) and getting stronger in the normal way.

I know of one kungfu master who's been vegan over 8 years.

I'd eat meat in an emergency and if I had killed someone and needed to dispose of them {burp}. Plants are loaded with everything you need. So, I need to eat more? ****, I hate lots of big meals :D

One thing about plants is that the goodness in them isn't restricted to what you compare it to in meat. Animals strip out half (whatever percentage) of the goodness to use in metabolism so when you eat the meat you're getting low grade benefits. Also, plant diseases don't translate to humans, AFAIK which is becoming more and more interesting to more and more frightened 'cattle' consumers.

Vegansim is the diet of the future. I am one of the chosen. Lettuce be united.

03-16-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by ElPietro

I would love for you to show me this proof. Soy in no way is superior.

Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

Also sorry I can't find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80's I believe who was vegan.

03-16-2002, 07:07 PM
His name was Bill Pearl just in case someone out there actually wants to call me on that one.

Justa Man
03-17-2002, 01:40 PM
I don't know what Deuteronomy is, but blood is fine. There are people who drink cow's blood mixed with raw cow's milk. From a raw food perspective, drinking the blood helps vitalize your blood. Eating an organ, brings health to the corresponding organ in you.

Everything/one is prone to parasites and bacteria. They've been here as long as we have. Why are people so nervous about them these days? Because the food they are eating (cooked, enriched, processed, fake) is making their body weaker and now these parasites, bacteria, atc, are finding great terrain to thrive in.
It's all Pasteur's fault. He said bacteria is bad and the world went with it. Check out one of his peers, Duchamp. He said it's not the bacteria or disease, but the terrain that is the problem. Pasteur even said Duchamp was right, but only after his bacteria theory came out and the world of medicine realized the money that could be made from pharmaceuticals, so they ignored Duchamp and his theory. Cooked foods make for unhealthy terrain. Raw food does not.
In short, from a raw food persepctive, you'll get sick, have a bacterial infection, virul infection, if your body has a need to clean itself out. Bacteria and the like all help make us healthy, all help clean or system. Drugs kill the bacteria, that was originally meant to clean us out, and we are left with an unhealthy terrain that will invite more bacteria. If you are on a raw food diet, and you get sick, and you let the sickness run it's course, you will feel better than you did before you got sick. I've seen it happen and had it happen to me. I know of people that went through spinal menengitis MORE THAN ONCE, didn't go to a hospital, stuck with their raw food diet and fully recovered, feeling better than they did before they got sick!

Read the book, We Want to Live, if you want to learn more.
No disrespect, but I'm so happy Veganism isn't going to be part of my future.

03-17-2002, 02:34 PM
JustaMan - can you elaborate on what you are referring to as "terrain", please? I know terrain as the earth/land either literally or figuratively but can't make sense of what you mean by it...

I looked up Duchamp on the web and got a couple of references to topology but not much.

Bacteria: I can't live without it :D

Milk: milk is BAD. It's a hormone-controlled secretion for infants and nature knows it's a thing to be weaned from. It's because you don't see the point in plants that you have to stay sucking teats to stay alive.

Anyway, I'm interested in what you said about Duchamp.

Justa Man
03-17-2002, 09:53 PM
terrain meaning the condition in your body. for example, if you don't circulate your chi fully in the body, then there are parts of it that will be 'underfed'. these 'underfed' areas become terrain that bacteria, viruses, etc will be attracted to because of the state of unhealth in that area. any clearer? or if you eat alot of fried foods and your colon gets all clogged up with that stuff. that's unhealthy terrain where UNfriendly bacteria will set up the party tent.
and it's bechamp, not duchamp. I think i got duchamp from stand by me! :D woops! sorry man.
raw cow's milk is not bad man. i drink about 2 gallons a week and have NO problems with mucus or any of that 'lactose intolerant' biz. plus, milk blended with a spoon of raw honey is a gift from the gods. straight up. i do see the point in plants. most definitly. they are a key part of my diet, as meat and fat is. i also drink half a quart of fresh squeezed, green veggie juice a day. greens are great but they do not supply the whole answer.
look, i know the meat thing is a far out idea. i don't expect anyone to think i'm all that sane for recommending it. it's why i won't even begin to suggest people eat raw butter, and lot's of it. just read We Want To Live and draw your own conclusion. there is another great book called Blatent Raw Foodist Propaganda that drops some good facts about raw food and it's insane benefits. read about Pottenger's Cats. the proof is in the pudding.
happy reading.

03-18-2002, 04:18 AM
Thanks for responding Justaman. Not sure if I'll buy the recommended book (would you buy my recommended vegan book..?) but I will look into the Bechamp thing. I was thinking of the feeling-better-after-serious-illness thing overnight and remembered reading an article just the other day about organic veggies. It's not long but you'll get the point.

Organic Food Might Reduce Heart Attacks (http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992033)

On milk, until going vegan I drank several cows a day. The vegan health issues with milk are numerous. Assuming you're not drinking disease or vetinary drugs the calcium in milk causes your body problems because there's too much of it. The bones lose strength over time and wear out. Osteoperosis can result though that's mainly something women get. Only people who consume dairy products suffer like that.

You have no idea how character-building it is to not eat pizza :-( Man, is it hard!

Mr Punch
03-18-2002, 06:01 AM
Thanks Eddie, Spark (yo man, how ya doin'?), David. I read this thread a coupla days ago and nearly blew my stack :cool: : fortunately didn't have time to reply.

Thanks Justaman, LOL. Good luck with your diet. I think the key really is about bioindividuality, but I'd be very surprised if you follow the diet I suppose you follow, if you live past about 50. Too much completely raw food can give you too much fibre. Fibre is, by its nature indigestible and abrasive, and too much will probably tear your colon like you've been eating wire-wool. Cave men haven't been around for some time, and when they were they didn't live very long for a number of reasons.

I was a strict vegan for 10 years or so. Perfectly healthy, thank you. No health problems at all. Training all the time. Before then I was strict vegetarian for about 5 years. Perfectly healthy thank you.

ElPietro, when I started I was a little rabid about the subject, but I was only 14, so nobody listened anyway :rolleyes: ! A lot of this was a response to often vehement, ignorant and personal attacks from omnivores: it always seemed to be open season on vegetarians... so many people would say "But you're wearing leather shoes..." , "How can you tell me I shouldn't be eating meat?" (when I had just said I was a vegetarian!). I haven't got on my high horse about the diet thing for a long time, but suffice it to say I firmly believe IMHOH (in my heart of hearts) that if you fed all of the omnivourous people in the world to each other the world would be a cleaner, more peaceful, and more resource-friendly place ;) .

Back to the original question Sevan. I'm sorry, but I'm skinny as a rake too, but I have tone, and all of my muscles work more than sufficiently for what I need them to do. I am lightly tanned. Everybody says I look very healthy (this is EVERYBODY, it's quite boring!). My skin is very dry, but that's because I live in Tokyo. I know everyone with any interest in this kind of thing has their own dietary bible, and that most of these are half-full of it, but my recommended reading is 'Optimum Sports Nutrition' by Michael Colgan. He's not a veggie, but his job is researching athletes' diets. His conclusions come down quite heavily on the side of cutting down both meat and fish. He is not selling anything, and he has logical criticisms of bad food! I you want some friendly specific dietary advice, send me a private or just reply here. But basically I suggest you do a lot of reading (a lot of nutritionists contradict each other), and try it for a bit to see how it goes. Bear in mind it'll probably take 6 months or so to show through any health changes.

Slightly OT but related (and I'm not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! :D ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?

03-18-2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Spark

Maybe not superior. But it is a FACT that the Aztecs diet was comprised mainly of corn (tortillas) and beans (soy is a bean) and that was all they ate and it was a complete protein for their diets.

Also sorry I can't find the name, but there was a Mr. Universe in the 80's I believe who was vegan.

Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn't mention it in his book either, but regardless that's not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...

Mr Punch
03-18-2002, 08:33 AM
I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement.

Ditto. This is what omnivores have been trying to spin on me for years!

Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...

I'm afraid I'm not a nutritionist, so I've only researched it by reading other people's books :) . As I said, try Michael Colgan's. He's not a vegetarian and the book is interesting. It's a bit big or I'd try to summarize it for you!

His suggested regime is a lot stricter than most people's, but it's interesting anyway if you're interested in sport nutrition, and resource use, come to that.

Justa Man
03-18-2002, 12:53 PM
david, i won't buy your book, but only because i was a vegan for 5 years, so i feel like i know that path already.
as for milk, were you drinking pasteurized and ****genized milk or raw milk? i've heard all the problems you listed as coming from the milk that is pasteurized and ****genized. i've never heard of any of these problems coming from raw cow's milk.
mat, i really don't eat that many fiber rich foods. let's see, the only thing that supllies any decent amount of fiber is my salads, and my apples....maybe the occasional dates i eat. that's it though. my diet consists of milk (raw), eggs (organic, free range, **** laid), beef (organic), butter (raw), and avacados and coconut cream (both raw, organic). these aren't really food known for their fiber. that's funny about what you say, cuz i think that if i can stick to this diet i'll see 100 years (and be in good condition when i get there).
cave men aside, there are many tribes of peoples that, today, live on raw food diets (including meat and dairy) and have none of the diseases that plague our sophisticated society.
i really hope some of yall check the 2 books i mentioned.
when little chinamen came to the western world to teach martial arts, maaad people thought they were nuts to think their skinny, old-man frames would be any match for the larger, more muscular
breeds of men of the western hemisphere. the only way to prove it was when they crossed hands. the only way i can show you some actual proof is by showing you these books that are loaded with info. every book you read, whether you agree with it or not, helps shape and strengthen your opinion on what you believe. take a chance. spend $20 and learn about what this wackjob is saying. :) i'm not going to post essays of info on the subject cuz i don't have that kind of time for it. please, read the books.

03-18-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by ElPietro

Not sure what the Aztecs eating habits have to do with anything. I respect Bill Pearl but never heard anything about him being a vegan, he doesn't mention it in his book either, but regardless that's not very relevant. I would just like some science on why eating only vegetables is superior to eating veggies and meat. Also, anything that explains why soy protein is better than protein from bovine sources.

I honestly don't care what people's eating habits are...just don't like it if they tell others their eating habits are superior but have no research to provide to back up that statement. Because others do it isn't good enough. Still waiting...

Sorry ElPietro if I was being obscure. You said you wanted proof about a soy diet being superior (I think). I was merely showing you how an entire civilization's diet was based upon beans and corn and that was a complete protein for their diets. If you've done any research or read about the Aztecs, you'd know they weren't sickly little skinny men.

I think it's funny that you say that veggies are the one acting superior! Everywhere I go, once people find out i'm a veggie, they think i'm a freak of nature, followed by 20 questions on how I've managed to survive all these years.

ANyhow, i'll just state that I think it's better for you to eat vegetables than it is meat and you can find all the proteins you need without ever consuming an animal. It has nothing to do with superiority, it has everything to do with health, and the well being of yourself and the planet!

And no i'm not a hippie!!! :D

03-18-2002, 04:56 PM
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions all,

I'll for sure review thoroughly all that was said and see how goes...

03-18-2002, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Mat

Slightly OT but related (and I'm not being a smart A, unless the answer bears out what I think! :D ): can anyone tell me what the Shaolin monks and Japanese Zen monks REALLY ate/eat?

Many Taoists I know are strong vegetarians (vegans) and includes not eating the 4 pungeant foods such as garlic & onions. Others eat meat, but I am not sure which is which, anyone would like to add ? They believe people who cultivate samadhi with these pungeant foods attracts attention of beings of the other world.

Pure Buddhists practise are different, but I shant share.

03-18-2002, 05:12 PM
Prana: Why you dont share?

more info always cool... also i like to hear others opinions.

03-18-2002, 05:14 PM
Sevan :) it is off topic, and not asked.

Besides, I already have a bad case of verbal diarrhoea.

edit : I guess it is not that off-topic. So here are some thoughts, you choose your path.
Beggars can't be choosers, food given should not be wasted. Thou shall not kill. So clearly a middle ground is taken. Can you guess ?

peace :)

03-19-2002, 08:19 AM
Well since everyone likes to make claims based on what was, or what people say or think, and haven't produced any kind of interesting research to back anything up I thought I'd post some reading material for you all.

General Article with good science and a multitude of references:


A very in-depth site with many articles and reading material on virtually all aspects of soy. Excellent references and peer reviewed studies:


Let me just once again clarify my point that I truly could care less what you decide, as long as you do not influence those that are seeking answers without at least providing good reason. If I'm right and someone takes my advice because they've read some info or science I've posted that's great. But if I said something that someone took to heart and I had just said it because I believed it and didn't have any form of research to back up what I say then that would be a bad thing. I'm showing people what I've read and believe and allowing them to make an informed decision. Just saying something is good because you do it is unacceptable, considering many people could come here and, theoretically, could make life changing eating habits.

03-19-2002, 08:29 AM
Oh and here's a few more for you to look at. All from valid sources. So if you are truly interested in this topic feel free to read it.





Please feel free to read these as well...although I doubt any of you truly will, but just remember that if you post something and debate with me try to do some research as I will on my end. I enjoy being proven wrong when possible, but I hate wasting my time...

Star Of The Sea
03-19-2002, 08:29 AM
I've been vegan for ten years. Some links to vegan strength training sites:




03-19-2002, 08:39 AM
These sites don't really say much. The first one is just a weight training site (ugly as hell format btw) that tells you to use soy and other stuff as your protein source. Nothing there that hasn't been said in this thread.

The second and third articles are just some guy that weight trained and went to a vegan diet. He was weak and trained poorly and made a bunch of changes and showed results. He's nothing special...anyone can get to where he is on pretty much any diet. He's not that big...and to say its because he turned vegan doesn't make sense. It's just some guy talking about how he's a vegan and weightlifts, again, nothing that hasn't been said in this thread.

Star Of The Sea
03-19-2002, 11:39 AM
If you go to the Robbie Hazeley section on the first link, there's some pictures of him. OK, it may not prove much, but it gives the lie to the old 'skinny vegans can never gain muscle' schtick. There are muscular vegans, and skinny ones, just like any sector of the population.


03-19-2002, 06:12 PM
Here's your links!! Enjoy! :)







03-19-2002, 09:49 PM
Thanks Spark! I will try to make some time during work tomorrow, I haven't actually clicked on any links yet so I will reserve my opinion for when I've had enough time to go through it all. But I appreciate your effort in at least posting some links. :)

03-20-2002, 09:07 AM
thanks to everyone for their passionate input. it's great!

rather than add my 10 years of research to the thread (and besides, i don't have time), all i'm going to say is this....

it's like MA practice...you have to PRACTICE and LIVE it to really know it. if you don't, you will never know for sure, and have little grounds to truly criticize it. read and research everything that interests you, weigh it against your own reason, decide why you want to do why you want to do, then just do it to see what happens. until you do it, it's all speculation. everyone is different.

and if you find yourself being a little too proselytizing about your personal practice, ask yourself if it's not driven from some insecurity. because usually when people push stuff on you, or get highly defensive about their beliefs, it's because they're really covering up some insecurty in what THEY believe. if you KNOW, you KNOW...you don't need to try to convince someone else.

if i have seen for myself that the sky is blue, no amount of people trying to convince me that it's really green is ever going to threaten me.

however...that doesn't mean that THEIR sky is blue too. so it would be wrong for me to claim i have an "absolute" truth (and i apologize to EP personally for all the righteous vegetarians/vegans out there who rammed their little personal philsophies down his throat.)

that doesn't mean that all of these theories can't be discussed from an intellectually critical point of view, which is what i think is MOSTLY happening here. it's good discourse. it's cool to see so many different points of view.

one final comment: it's not all about the body.

03-20-2002, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by ElPietro
Thanks Spark! I will try to make some time during work tomorrow, I haven't actually clicked on any links yet so I will reserve my opinion for when I've had enough time to go through it all. But I appreciate your effort in at least posting some links. :)


Good attitude my man!! :)

I'll have to admit, I think the last one is the best and most unbiased. It lists the benefits, as well as potential 'dangers'. It seems to be the most balanced one I could find. I read your links, and could agree with some, but not with others. I"m sure you'll find the same with some of mine. Enjoy!! :D

mad taoist
03-23-2002, 10:46 PM
I have a few vegan / vegetarian (mostly vegan) friends who have really good muscle shape ... they dont work out and usually have it from a young age. Strange, huh ?

I don't eat dairy and the only meat I eat is seafood (and not heaps), I've noticed I don't get acne like i used to, feel healthier, have more energy, etc. probably could do to lose a few kilos still!

05-22-2018, 09:00 AM

https://imagesvc.timeincapp.com/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn-jpg.si.com%2Fs3%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fmarquee_large_2 x%2Fs3%2Fimages%2Ftottenham-hotspur-v-manchester-city-premier-league-5b013c4b7134f6e921000002.jpg%3Fitok%3DGWYMHnVN&w=1200&q=85

Man City Star Reveals How Tai Chi and Vegan Diet Switch Have Helped Him Regain Form (https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/05/20/man-city-star-reveals-how-tai-chi-and-vegan-diet-switch-have-helped-him-regain-form)
By 90MIN May 20, 2018

Fabian Delph has revealed lifestyle changes in the form of Tai Chi and a vegan diet have been key to his revival with Manchester City and England.

The 28-year-old midfielder come left back has revitalised his career this season after putting his injury woes behind him and focusing on creating a positive mindset, a shift which has helped him play a key role in City lifting the Premier League title and confirming his place in England's 23-man World Cup squad.

Michael Regan/GettyImages

It was not initially all smooth sailing, however, as upon Pep Guardiola's arrival at the Etihad Stadium Delph's future was thrown into question as he did not immediately look to fill the mould of a player the Spaniard would often look to.

Yet, 29 appearances across all competitions this season has seen the former Aston Villa man shine, and he credits mindfulness exercises and a vegan diet as key to his well-being.

“I’ve had a lot of injuries and a lot of setbacks, starting with a ruptured anterior cruciate ligament, lateral meniscus tear and medial ligament damage,” Delph is quoted as saying in the book, Soccology: Inside The Hearts And Minds Of The Professionals On The Pitch, via the Mirror.

It is no surprise IF Fabian Delph gets a call up to England’s WC squad. He was a crucial contributor in the PL’s greatest ever team breaking records, and creating history.

11:14 AM - May 15, 2018
1 1 Reply 1 1 Retweet 27 27 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
“At that point, I heard people saying my *career was over or my *performances would not be as good.

“Not *being in the team and only *being *spoken about in terms of my injury was hard. Being injured massively affected my mental state — self-doubt crept in. "

"I began to question whether I would ever play again and, if I were to play again, whether my performances would be as good. When I began to train again, it took a while for me to adjust to my body’s changes as a result of the injury, find my confidence and get over my fear of breaking down.

Shaun Botterill/GettyImages

“I decided to ignore my doubts and began to look at my body objectively, as if it were detached from me.

“I studied its weak parts, researched my injuries, began to strengthen my body and moved from rehab into pre-hab. I carried out mindfulness exercises like the moving meditation of Tai Chi. I changed the fuel I put into my body and switched to a vegan diet.”

Vegan/Vegetarian (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?10601-Vegan-Vegetarian)
Celebrities studying Tai Chi? (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70323-Celebrities-studying-Tai-Chi)

11-01-2018, 08:07 AM
I first thought this was a Halloween prank article but I don't think they celebrate Halloween in Thailand.

Horrified diners served HUMAN FLESH after restaurant owner 'killed customer and came up with a gruesome way to dispose of the body' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6337513/Diners-vegetarian-restaurant-horrified-theyd-served-human-flesh-noodles.html)
Vegetarian restaurant patrons horrified to find they'd been served human meat
Police investigated the Thai restaurant to find a decaying corpse in the kitchen
The body was identified as a frequent customer who got in a fight with the owner
Victim, 61, had been missing for more than a week before the discovery
PUBLISHED: 08:48 EDT, 31 October 2018 | UPDATED: 09:25 EDT, 31 October 2018

Diners at a vegetarian restaurant were left stunned earlier this week after finding chunks of meat in their noodles.

Bewildered to find meat in meals at a vegetarian eatery, customers complained to local authorities, and that led to some gruesome discoveries.

A study of the meat found it was not beef or pork but in fact human flesh.

Thai police made the grim discovery of a human body after restaurant patrons reported meat in their vegetarian dish

An inspection of the kitchen found blood splattered on the walls and human flesh on the floor

An investigation of the premises then found a kitchen area where the walls and floor were spattered in blood and there were chunks of flesh on the ground.

Worse was to come for the horrified Thai police, as they found the decaying corpse of a 61-year-old man in the property's septic tank.

The restaurant appeared to have been abandoned when officers arrived. As of Wednesday, the owner was on the run.

The disfigured body was later identified as that of a regular patron of the restaurant.

A frequent customer, Prasit Inpathom was last seen having drinks at the restaurant on October 21 by his brother.

According to local publications, Prasit was involved in a verbal altercation with the boss of the restaurant.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/10/31/12/51D5AB3500000578-6337513-According_to_reports_the_body_in_the_restaurant_wa s_a_frequent_c-a-51_1540990088509.jpg
According to reports, the body found in a septic tank in the restaurant was a frequent customer who had a fight with the owner

According to the reports, the fight escalated and the 61-year-old sustained fatal injuries.

He was hit in the head with a blunt object and had six stab wounds in his stomach and leg.

Police allege the owner's intention was to get rid of Prasit's corpse by grinding it up and serving parts of it to customers.

It's unknown whether any customers consumed the human flesh.

03-08-2021, 11:21 AM
Plant-Based Boxer, GWOAT, Wins Fight for Double Championship, Gender Equality (https://thebeet.com/plant-based-boxer-fights-for-equality-watch-the-bout-tonight/)
Hailey Welch Published: March 5, 2021
This story was updated Saturday, March 6th, 2021.

Last night Claressa Shields won the right to call herself GWOAT, Greatest Woman of All Time, becoming the first fighter, man or woman, to win an undisputed championship in two weight classes, by beating contender Marie-Eve Dicaire, for the title of World Champion, Junior Middleweight Division. Shields was already the reigning titleholder in the Middleweight division, and now she can wear her GWOAT ring with pride.

An outspoken advocate of equal pay and gender equality in the sport of boxing, and in every arena, Shields is putting her hard work and right cross hook where her mouth is, by drawing an ever-growing number of fans to the still mainstreaming sport of female boxing. She is also taking the gloves off to compete in mixed martial arts, and we can expect to hear more from her in the future. already the only boxer, man or woman to ever win two back-to-back Olympic Gold Medals, Shields' star is on the rise.

On March 5th Sheilds entered the ring n her hometown of Flint Michigan for her first-ever home-town bout, to show that: 1. Plant-based athletes kick-ass and 2. Equality for women all over the world still has a long way to go. (Perhaps not in that order.) The fight was dedicated to raising awareness for women's equality and pay equity in advance if International Women's Day, which is Monday, March 8th.

Equality, Pay Equity, and Fighting for What's Right

Shields is a great ambassador for both causes since she has been fighting and winning since she was 17 when she won her first Olympic Gold Medal in 2012 in London, England. Never count a vegan or plant-based athlete out. Novak Djokovic just won his ninth grand slam, at the Australian Open, on a plant-based diet. Tom Brady just won his seventh Superbowl Ring on a mostly plant-based diet. World Class Champion Surfer Tia Blanco wins her meets on a plant-based diet, and next, Claressa Shields is going to show that she can prevail, be her strongest and perform at the highest levels of her sport, on a plant-based diet of vegetables, fruit, legumes, nuts, and seeds.

Most athletes who have ditched meat and dairy said they do it to lower inflammation in the body, which helps their circulation, oxygen uptake, endurance, strength, and injury prevention. All of them say it helps with faster recovery times so they can go crush it again the next day, without a "down day" between sessions.

Shields took on Marie-Eve Dicaire in one of the most important matches of her career. The event was held at the Dort Financial Center in Flint, on March 5 at 9 pm. The fight was sponsored by Vejii, the new vegan online market where you buy everything you want for a plant-based diet in one place.

"It just don't feel real to say undisputed twice," Shields told reporters, according to DAZN News, after adding the undisputed Junior Middleweight crown to the undisputed Middleweight title that she already owned. "It's kind of weird. It's like some epic s—t."

Her one goal that remained unachieved: She wanted the K.O. she told reporters. "I was trying to get the knockout," Shields said. "That's what I really wanted. I'm happy, but I still wanted the KO. I just didn't have enough time."

DAZN reported the reigning champ ended the press interview with: "Pacquiao who? Canelo who? It's Claressa Shields, yes!" She was referring of course to Manny Pacquiao, the much-decorated Filipino boxer, now a Senator in the Philippines, and "Canelo" Álvarez, the Mexican pro boxer who has won multiple world championships. "Two-time undisputed. When someone else does it, let me know! It ain't been done. It's just me."

Shields comes from a family of boxers and won her first Olympic Gold at age 17
Shields was a decorated amateur boxing career, winning her first Olympic gold medal at 17 in 2012. She turned pro after defending her middleweight gold medal in Rio in 2016, she turned professional. In addition to her two Olympic gold medals, she has won nine world championship belts in the sport. Shields, 25, is the defending WBC and WBO light-middleweight champion. In her fight with Dicaire, she’ll put those belts on the line.

“I think it brings a lot more power, a lot more experience. I really think that I’m not just into only boxing. I’m a lot stronger at places where I really had strength at before. So I’m really excited about March 5th and bringing some of that to the table.”

Shields certainly has every right to be "super excited" about this bucket list event, since she grew up not too far from the arena, and learned to love the sport of boxing through her father Bo, a former boxer. “I really started boxing for my dad so that he can live his life through me,” she said. “And I didn't know that boxing was destined for what I would do. I just did it because I wanted to make my dad happy," she also told Team USA.

Claressa Shields Fights For Equality
For Sheilds, there's only one perfect time to do what she loves, but since March is Women's History Month and International Women's Day is celebrated on the 8th, this fight, in particular, is destined to be the moment to prove everything she believes: "We're as great as the men."

In an interview with Fox Business, Shields pointed out that women don't get as much money as men in many sports but specifically in boxing because women are held at a maximum of 10 rounds whereas men can fight for 12 rounds, but she would be willing to compete for the entire round if they let her. Men and women deserve equal pay, and we are here to stay," she said.

“I have been very vocal about (women’s sports) but after being vocal now you have to take action. And right here is taking action,” Shields said. “Not being given chances by networks that don’t want to pay us what we want or need to be paid. … This is where it all starts. And to me, this is taking a stand for equal pay and equal fight time.”

Vegan-Vegetarian (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?10601-Vegan-Vegetarian)
Boxing (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54079-Boxing)

03-09-2021, 07:47 PM
China’s appetite for meat fades as vegan revolution takes hold (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/09/chinas-appetite-for-meat-fades-as-vegan-revolution-takes-hold?fbclid=IwAR06aNBZX6mOfZrRKheuEtUMwpDrNHcdWnMc UjMb0RfK5zVF9StRIQnPl2M)
Concerns over carbon emissions and food crises are fuelling a move away from meat consumption as a symbol of wealth

An advertisement for plant-based products at a KFC store in Hangzhou. International and domestic chains are expanding their range of meat alternatives. Photograph: VCG/Getty Images
Crystal Reid
Tue 9 Mar 2021 05.07 EST

The window of a KFC in the eastern Chinese city of Hangzhou hosts the image of a familiar mound of golden nuggets. But this overflowing bucket sporting Colonel Sanders’ smiling face is slightly different. The bucket is green and the nuggets within it are completely meat free.

Over the last couple of years, after many years of rising meat consumption by China’s expanding middle classes for whom eating pork every day was a luxurious sign of new financial comforts, the green shoots of a vegan meat revolution have begun to sprout. Although China still consumes 28% of the world’s meat, including half of all pork, and boasts a meat market valued at $86bn (£62bn), plant-based meat substitutes are slowing carving out a place for themselves among a new generation of consumers increasingly alarmed by food crises such as coronavirus and African swine fever.

China’s most cosmopolitan cities are now home to social media groups, websites and communities dedicated to meat-free lifestyles. VegeRadar, for example, has compiled comprehensive maps of vegetarian and vegan restaurants all across China. According to a report by the Good Food Institute, China’s plant-based meat market was estimated at 6.1bn yuan (£675m) in 2018 and projected to grow between 20 and 25% annually.

Yun Fanwei, a 25-year-old student from Shanghai, is one of a new breed of vegetarians hungry for more options. “I buy some of these fake meat products and a lot of them are pretty good. They don’t necessarily taste like meat, but it makes a nice change from tofu,” she said.

Eating meat has been closely connected with the growing affluence of China. In the 1960s, the average Chinese person consumed 5kg of meat a year. This had shot up to 20kg by the time of former leader Deng Xiaoping’s “reform and opening” of the late 1970s, and to 48kg by 2015.

A woman smells meat before buying it at Xihua farmer’s market in Guangzhou, Guangdong province, China. After the coronavirus outbreak China brought in new regulations on the trade and consumption of wild animals. Photograph: Alex Plavevski/EPA
But in 2016, as part of its pledge to bring down carbon emissions, the Chinese government outlined a plan to cut the country’s meat intake by 50%. It was a radical move, and so far very few other governments around the world have included meat consumption in their carbon-reduction plans.

The new guidelines, which called on citizens to consume just 40-75g of meat a day, were promoted with a series of public information adverts featuring the actor Arnold Schwarzenegger and director James Cameron. Since then there have been few other concrete steps taken, other than the president, Xi Jinping, last August launching a “clean plate campaign” aimed at reducing the “shocking and distressing” 40% of food that goes straight from Chinese dinner tables into the bin. Some commentators speculated that asking Chinese citizens to reduce their meat consumption was felt to be particularly unpopular.

But alternative proteins are seen as a possible route forwards. Last year at the annual “two sessions” parliament, Sun Baoguo, a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, called for more investment in and regulation and promotion of artificial meat.

Some of the biggest international chains operating in China have been quick to bet on the growth of alternative meats. KFC is now selling vegan chicken nuggets, Burger King is offering an Impossible Whopper, and Starbucks is serving Beyond Meat pastas, salads and wraps.

But domestic companies are setting up shop too, betting that state backing will come soon, not least because the government may see alternative proteins as a way to let citizens continue to have the “luxury” of meat while also moving towards its carbon-reduction goals. That optimism has led to several Chinese competitors entering the market alongside international powerhouses such as Cargill, Unilever and Nestlé, as well as the vegan meat poster-children Impossible and Beyond.

Packets of plant-based OmniPork on sale at a Green Common plant-based grocery store in Hong Kong. Photograph: Getty Images
OmniFoods, which launched in Hong Kong in 2018, is one of a band of regional startups jostling for market share, having recently opened a multi-brand vegan shop and restaurant in Shanghai and secured its signature product, OmniPork, in McDonald’s in Hong Kong and Aldi, White Castle and Starbucks on the mainland. The company, which plans to operate in 13 countries this year, also just completed its UK soft launch for Veganuary, during which OmniPork was turned into everything from scotch eggs to Korean bibimbap at participating restaurants.

The OmniFoods founder, David Yeung, hopes the opening of a China-based factory next year will help bring down the price of his products. Plant-based proteins currently cost much more than their meat counterparts, a major barrier when it comes to getting China’s notoriously thrifty shoppers to make the switch. “Obviously minimising logistics and middle parties and creating economies of scale will have a big impact on the value chain. As we cut these expenses in China, we foresee a significant price drop,” Yeung said.

Shanghai-based Z-Rou produces a plant-based mince substitute which is already in the canteens of some of China’s top international schools, hospitals and businesses. Its CEO, Franklin Yao, is targeting opinion leaders and middle-class consumers who can afford to make conscious choices. “They would even be willing to pay more as they know they’re getting a healthier product that’s helping ensure the future of the planet their children are inheriting. That’s priceless.”

A chef makes spaghetti bolognese with plant-based OmniPork as David Yeung, the co-founder and co-chief executive officer of Green Monday, looks on at the Kind Kitchen restaurant in Hong Kong. Photograph: Paul Yeung/Bloomberg/Getty Images
Other China players include Zhenmeat, which makes plant-based beef, pork and crayfish, and Starfield, whose seaweed-based mince alternative has been turned into dishes at some of China’s leading restaurant chains.

Yao admits the industry is still very small in China but he thinks meat-free substitutes will become mainstream very soon. “Chinese consumers are actively looking for more sustainable products. While the link between meat and the environment is still weak among the majority of the population, the interest is there and China learns fast.”

But weaning people off meat may prove harder than some of these companies would like to think. “I’ve tried a vegetarian braised pork dish before but it’s not the same as real meat,” said 64-year-old retiree Bao Gege. “The taste, texture and nutritional values are not comparable. I wouldn’t try it again, even if it was cheaper than meat.”

the-Kentucky-Fried-Thread (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?22096-the-Kentucky-Fried-Thread)
Vegan-Vegetarian (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?10601-Vegan-Vegetarian)

04-25-2021, 10:37 AM
Hmm most vegetarians I know are pretty skinny, and incredible definition. Then there are those who look pretty terrible, sickly and dead (hehehe me!!). but man, those guys are strong!

I think the secret is that they eat lots of beans, nuts and substitute with loads of vegetable and fruit juices to keep them going. They tend to also snack loads.

I tend to not care so much about my intake, hence I'm sickly and half decomposed.

Good luck, from the half decomposing breathing pulp behind the screen.

Couldn't agree with you more man! Those are pure facts. Besides, I'm also a vegeterian. Peace!