Paul Lin Shifu

[Stacey]

I read on here that you teach 8 step preying mantis. (ba bu tang lang) I really want to learn from you. Where do you teach? What are class times? What should I wear?

[EARTH DRAGON]

Yea I am quite sure that after you so rudely offended him he would be willing to teach you... good luck

[Skarbromantis]

Stacey is just trying to start **** again

Skard1

[Stacey]

Can't go with the flow can ya?

Well, I've changed my mind. Its frankly no one elses business. I want to see what I have been missing. I want to learn his 8 step to get a bigger picture.

[EARTH DRAGON]

quite frankly paul lin lives in LA so unless you plan on moving out of NJ I would suggest that you still train under jack....

[PaulLin]

actually, I am in Orange County, south of LA. I don't teach any public class now. If you have question on your practicing, just type it out, I will try to answer them. But I have to mind a lot of other business in my life too, so may not be respond asap all the time. Staycey, check with the 10 rules of kungfu teaching, the "Shi Chuan Shi Bo Chuan" rules and see if you can fit them all. Then you can think about learning skills.

[John Newberry]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for the PICS of your dad and Master Wei. My best to you and your dad.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Please dont take this as a derogatory question and I mean absolutly no harm and do not wiish to fight, but I am just just wondering why you would display pictures of other stlyes of praying mantis masters on your webiste?

This seems a bit odd to me that when not admitting that you or george have anything to do with 8 step you would proudly display picutes of 8 step masters?

Thats like hanging pictures of other peoples grandfathers that were famous simply to make youself look more important.

Again please dont take this the wrong way I am honestly curious.

[John Newberry]

Hi Mike,
I have a very deep respect for Paul Lin and his father. Im not trying to start any trouble with anyone, But my page is open to all types of Praying Mantis. Not just 8 step, I am currently a disciple of Master Ilya A. Profatilov and choose not to study 8 step. I hope this answers your question.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Yes you have thanks. I have just met paul lin over the forum a couple of days ago and I too respect him without even knowing him. Not just for who he is but his kind demeanor and humbleness. Again I didnt want to stir anything up I was just curious thanks.. PS did you get me PM? please answer

[PaulLin]

ED,

Since you said that you know Shyun has lied to you and others but you still love him as shrfu. I can understand that he is the one who has made you aware of these arts, and yet, a taste of them. And for what I have heard, 2 of my father's 8 step mantis kungfu brothers recieved threat form Shyun not to teach the real 8 step mantis with court action. And Shyun knows that Chinese fear of court actions. To me the fake claim of Shyun is not the real big problem, the real problem is that he tries to kill the real ones form surfacing.

So if you, ED, learned the real way, are you going to share with Shyun as out of the love of shrfu? Are you going to let him keep the real tudi out form surfacing? I am sure Shyun will try everything to silence the real ones for he fear that he can't compete with them.

As you have known, form Shyun's immitations, you can already felt the use of these arts. The real arts must come with the matched/correct foundation support and will serve even more than what you have experienced. I don't really know how many martial artists have known the facts about the real and the fake, in fact, I don't even know how many people here have financial relationship with Shyun.

I don't mind the fakes are out there, the main thing I care is that the real ones should be free to come out and compete so that the learners can see for themselves.

So there, what will you say?

[EARTH DRAGON]

You ask some very good questions and I will answer them HONESTLY.
When I lived with him I would have done anything for him. He took me under his wing and spent a lot of time with me and made sure that I was OK. Everything was OK when I opened my school. I hosted seminars with him and paid for him to come to my school. Everything was fine until I was not allowed to attend his SIFU camp. I asked why and he said that I had not paid all my dues 1,200 a year so I was not eledgable. I regretfully accepted and contined to promote 8 step, KUNG FU USA and the federation for the next year. I paid my 1,200 and again wanted to attend the next SIFU camp. I was told again that I could'nt, this time becuse I was not a state HQ but only a branch. I thought that was unfair and I felt very betryed. So I closed my school and concentrated on my medical qigong training in jin gon tzu li gong qigong with master Yen Chu Feng. I was mailed a letter and told that I could not train or follow another master. He was jealous of Yen and threatend by her power. I chose to keep studying with Yen anyway.
Then in 2000 I opened another school but did not ask shyun nor paid the 1,200 I received a letter telling me that I pay the 1,200 or I would be sued for using the name KUNG FU USA and 8 step praying mantis. I did not change the name of my school and was put on the inactive list on the 8 step.com webiste.

So you see its all about money to him. everything was fine when I was giving himn money but then everything changed. So I would love to learn the real way and just compare it to what I have learned in my 12 years in 8 step. Most maybe correct but most may not..... I dont know. But it wasnt unil the birth of the internet that anyone could find out any different.
While I was a dedicated student at one time I no longer have ties nor a yearing for shyun anymore.I havent spoken to him in over 3 years other than through his lacky kevin L who is the so called head of the federation (deans old job) I have been treated unfairly way to many times and I think I deserve better.
Problem is there is no kung fu in buffalo other than george and I and a hung gar kwoon (ting fong wong lineage) but I dont like hung gar or from learning from non- chinese.
I am sorry for putting my personal problems on the net but I am glad to let people know the thruth.

I would love to know the real truth and who not share with any other than my students all of whom expet for 1 have ever met shyun.
Why do you ask ? can you help me? would you help me?

[PaulLin]

ED,

I will do all I can to help you if you want to know about what I have known.

[BeiTangLang]

How can someone copyright a hisorical system that existed before they were born? I though this was covered by "historical domain"? The same way no one can copyright "water".
Now, kung fu USA I can understand,..but a system is a bit ridiculous.
Any lawyers out there care to help clear this one up?
Respectfully,
BTL

[count]

ED,

You can not copyright ideas. Patent or copyright registration is easy to check and hard to enforce accross international borders. Look at all the art, music and videos that is stolen and sold in China every year.

I know Buffalo is a distance from NYC, but I think Su Yu Chang could help you out. I think it was mentioned in another thread that someone thought he might be the source of most of James Shyun's 8 step anyway. Master Su's mantis is excellent.

In Buffalo I would look up Ben Hill. He is a bagua player but has background in Mantis. He's a great source of information both historical and current. His KFO screen name is Maoshan if you want to e-mail him.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thank you all so much, I feel like a heal typing my problems over the net for I have much pride and quite frankly feel embarassed about my ex-teachers actions.

Bei tang lang, he copy writted the name "8 step preying mantis" "shyun tai chi chaun" and "KUNGFU USA"
It was never done before so he was the first, and actually kicked george listjak one of the sifu's out of the system and then sued him for using /teaching the name 8 step with out his consent and WON.

Count, moshan lives in buffalo? how do I find him I would love to exchange thoughts and knowledge. do you know how to get a hold of him??????? thanks

Paul lin, yes I would apprieciate that very much

[PaulLin]

Count,

Master Su Yu Chang is my father's kungfu brother. He did learned 8 steps form GM Wei himself. He also has many other styles of mantis. GM Wei common on him as too much redones, as many different styles need not to repeat the same purpose in movements. I guess Su has a obsession on all mantis forms.

Su will be a very good source to learn form, but he has no ShuaiChiao knowledge. If you checked out the pictures on the other mantis site, you can find the photo of Su when he was in 20's, parctice with my father.

Su has also researched alot in the history of mantis. He knows more people, names of moves, and stories than my father. My father has concentrate mostly on the practice, theory, and applications(my father's body are stronger). Su spend much time on forms and histories(he was lighter built). It is like students in the same university that studied in different majors.

Once my father and Su has been in a meeting with other kungfu friends, I think it is about more then 10 years ago in LA, Shyun showed up and claim that he has 8 step, he show funny/useless moves and tell every one he can teach every body how to kill(if you can find Shyun's early moves in magazine, you will know what I mean). Su and my father both agreed on the time that he knows nothing about 8 step. Later Shyun claim that he practiced with my father's group in the park and called my father Da Shr Shon, which my father have never seen Shyun practice 8 step once. Unhappy about Shyun, but Shyun's father is my father's good friend, so my father never contect Shyun even Shyun called my father.

You can definitly ask Su about what Shyun has, Shyun's moves has been constanly changed since then.

[Syre]

With regard to copyright law:

- you can't copyright an 'obvious descriptive name'. For example, you can't copyright "tissue" but you can copyright "kleenex".

- "8-step praying mantis" is an obvious translation of a chinese term, and therefore it should not be allowed to be copyrighted.

- even if it is, one could use another similar name, such as "8-stance praying mantis" and a charge of infringement probably would not stand up in court, and certainly should not stand up in court when the translation from preexisting chinese terms argument is used.

[Syre]

I have heard that Shyun is now using the term "Shyun style kung fu", since that can clearly be copyrighted by him.

It also seems to be more descriptive of what he's actually teaching, based on what's been written here.

[PaulLin]

Chen Gao Qing? is Chen (ear with east) Gao (country) Qing(can't find English word)? I spelled it Chen Kuo Qing. He is one of the top students under GM Wei. Wang Chiu Xiong is also top student. They should know all 6 chapters ZaiYao if they remembered them.

[count]

WTF happened to RAF's really informational and insightful posts in this thread???? I would like to know more about the 8 step book.:confused:

[RAF]

This is not an area I want to go into other than to say that the book Paul Lin cites exists and his claim regarding his father is verified in the book.

I have a lot of respect for the 8 Step Praying Mantis System and I do not want to add fuel to a fire I know little of so I deep sixed my comments.

[PaulLin]

That book is wrote by GM Wei, edited by my father and Su. Su is the final editor and he is the last person make any change on it.

That book is how GM Wei want the world know him as, his arts, and how history will record he is.

And there is nothing on there has to do with Shyun learned his arts and bullwhip.

[BeiTangLang]

Is the book available for sales? I would love to have a copy for a compare & contrast of the styles as I come across them.
Thanks to the contributors here!

[PaulLin]

I will try to make a copy, with translation and my father's opinions on the opposite side of each copied page. I hope I can publish it soon. Or maybe Master Su can do that too.

[John Newberry]

Hi Paul,
I too would like a copy if you get a chance. Thanks

[Syre]

A copy / translation of that book would be an amazing asset to the world of martial arts!

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone here when I say please let us know when it's available. Xie xie.

[Daniel Madar]

I found this thread by accident, but I am glad I did.

First, Mike/ED, I am glad you are getting things of your chest. I have personally always wondered about the Shyun style taiji, which Shyun learned from the Wu family, but changed the name "out of respect". This does not really mix with what I understand. My teacher is so afraid anything she says will reflect badly on her dead teachers memory that she will only talk about them privately with her top students. And she never even says anything bad about them. I cant imagine her changing the name of any of the taiji she teaches out of respect. She would see it as far too presumptuous.

Hell, with rare exception, I dont even mention my teacher on this site or others out of respect for her wishes.

Second, Paul I may have misunderstood, but it seems you have a book on 8 step mantis to publish. You should try to find Jess Obrien. He posts on the Taiji section under the name Rockwood. He has contacts with the publisher North Atlantic Press, which publishes a large number of martial arts books.

[EARTH DRAGON]

Thanks I do feel better, I have carried around a lot in the past for him and I am tired of making up excuses to cover up thigs that just arent right.

Are you in japan yet? have you contacted my freinds that I gave you?
If you are in japan look them up. If you arent I have someone with whom I would like you to meet. He lives in San Fran and I told him to get in touch with you his screen name is SYRE and he is a newbie to martial arts but has gotten the shaft from a sifu and is very interested in learning martial arts. I was hoping you could help him out, but he said your profile said you had left for japan.

If you have not please try to get in touch with him through KFO thanks daniel......ED

[Damon]

I just wanted to say that I would also be on the list for that book, if I could. :D

I am having a tough time finding really good mantis books, these days.:(

Well...technically, I am having a tough time finding ANY mantis books, these days...:( :(

[yu shan]

Hi Damon,

It`s hard to find a book period in Tennessee! Just kidding. Good to see another Mantis practitioner in my state. Do we know each other? I was formerly with Wah Lum, but doing another Mantis style now. Are you with Wah Lum?

Yu Shan

[PaulLin]

We are still working on the 8 step book's translation. Will announce when it is ready.

[Daniel Madar]

Hey,

I am in Japan now. I havent contacted your friends yet, but I plan to. I met a few people from E-budo yesterday, so I am a bit hung over now. :(

I talked to Syre for a little bit. I havent heard from him recently though. I hope he finds what hes looking for. It can be tough when you are just starting out, and dont really know what is going on.

-D

[EARTH DRAGON]

Cool how do you like it so far? Please contact my freind PETE FASO you have his address...he is a good freind and will show you a good time over there. also remember if you have time to go see my freind masami ozaki president of the world pancrase. He is a very nice man.

[Damon]

Hey Yu Shan :D


I am the only "Cartman" you know. :D :D

And I will see you tonight, too. :p

[RAF]

Paul Lin:

If you go to the site below and look at the picture, this is the gentleman I referred to Chen Guo Qing. He visited and helped teach the pimen seminar. I also believe he performed Xing Yi during Master's demo in 2000. Very powerful.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://trinity.psnw.com/~ycsu/info.htm

Photo taken November 2000. In the front sitting down left to right: Master Tien-Pao Huang, Master Yu-Chang Su, Master Kuo-Chin Chen and his wife.

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New York, NY 10013

For info Call: 1 (718) 805-8532 or 1 (718) 599-1885 (Cary Kung)




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[PaulLin]

Hi, RAF,

I am very happy to know that there are real mantis out there are teaching. If I ever come near to NY, I will surely visit you. That is the true teaching pass down there, unlike Shyun here.