Why???

[Water Dragon]

Do people in CMA insist on making up the most unbelievable stories about:

A.) What they have done to another human being in a fight.
B.) What they have personally seen their teacher do.

And why are people so eager to buy into these stories? Do peopel realy think they can leap 20 feet into the air or knock someone down with Jedi-like powers.

Thoughts please.

[Mantis_Hand]

are you questioning my proficiency with the force?

[Black Jack]

I honestly believe, and I am not making this up, that a number of people who fall for this garabage, though in their mind, they are not one of those people, is because of the fanatsy land of movies.

Shaw Brothers, Golden Harvest, Samurai Sunday, Hollywood Action Flicks, you take this and couple it with the hope that their may be something out in our world that will make them unquie, i.e. ego and boom, you will have people who believe that Mooney can move people with chi, that tai chi masters can move clouds with their minds, that you can become invisible, or ward off others with psyche energy, that fighting off a determined and armed intruder will be a perfect blend of choregraphy right out of their animal forms, that you can hit a attacker and he will die 3 years later on cue, that you can do spinning high kicks and knock the knife out of the bad guys hand, that everybody will be a good uke and fall down.

I admit its pyschobabble but its either that or these people rode the little yellow bus to school.

[Sharky]

*HEH*

I like you Mantis_Hand. You may stay.

[wushu chik]

I second that motion Sharky. He's gonna fit in JUST FINE!!!

~Wen~

[shaolinboxer]

I wanted to believe stories of this nature when I was a newbie. And when a whole group (cult) of people start telling you the same fabricated story....and when your instructor does the same...well, it's easy to believe what you want to believe.

Either that or we have to blame the shaw brothers.... and the discovery channel.

[Kuen]

The LA police department says 90% of all fights end with a Qi blast.

[shaolinboxer]

That is why you need a licence to chi in New York State.

[rubthebuddha]

"no, officer! all i was doing was amateur breathing. i didn't know what i was doing!"

[Cody]

While trickery of all sorts is possible and does occur in some martial arts settings, I do accept that there are people, some of whom are adept in martial arts, who have abilities far beyond the ordinary. In fact, that might be denied by some practitioners. I would add that what actually happened might be beyond the understanding of the witness(es). In which case the description might not be on target, though it could be.

So why do MA people, who are Not purposely being untruthful (puffing themselves or colleagues up), or misreading, or being misled (to the point of thinking that they saw something differently from how it occurred), say such things?
Students might be really excited about seeing something that was so far beyond their own abilities. Simple as that. Just sharing Or, it could be a pride thing, whether or not the incident occurred as described. A student might even be seeking validation for what was seen.

I urge you to remember that while there's a lot of b*ll out there, "truth is stranger than fiction". As I see it, sometimes the truth of tomorrow was the fiction of yesterday, and, the truth of yesterday, the fiction of tomorrow.

As for A., well, if someone is bragging about that, I'd rather not hear it. It comes down to a "see how tough I am" line, which can be meant as a warning. On the other hand, if the conflict were to end with little or no injury to the opponent, or fine technique in the face of unequal odds, it might be worth hearing if it doesn't sound like an advertisement.

stretch,
Cody

[PHILBERT]

I once got in a fight with like 20 guys and I got angry and all of a sudden my hair turned from jet black to golden yellow and I started having this force field or something around me. Then I put my hands to my right side and said "Kamaehamaeha" and all of a sudden, this huge blue glowing blast shot from my hand and obliterated all 20 guys into nothing but atoms. I then flew off.

[tri2bmt]

Who says the stories are unbelievable?
Like the time I ripped that guys arms off in that fight. YOu would have been impressed at that utilization of Tai Chi technique.

[Chang Style Novice]

I have used my Qi to explode chickens using only an M-80 and a match. Incredible, eh? And a waste of food.

[ewallace]

On the flipside, I have been the recipient of chi projection. I was one of the lab rats for Mooney's demonstration. The next 3 days I walked around with pecks where my shoulder blades used to be.

[wushu chik]

Yeah, well when I get p!ssed off...i start swing my arms in a windmill motion and i get the GLOW!!! Beat that one.

[norther practitioner]

GOING BACK TO THE WHOLE WHY THING....
WHY ASK WHY?
DRINK BUD DRY!

[Mutant]

A lot of people dreams and the validation of their years of practice and dedication rely on these myths.

"Master X's senior student (or teacher, or whom ever) once was challenged at knifepoint or jumped by ninjas and put them all in the hospital using technique Y"

Many MA schools are like a cult or religion, with the minions repeating the mythological gospel ad nauseum. Every generation of students who repeats the story probably embelishes it more and makes the feats greater. In some cases, it all might be made up for marketing reasons.

This provides the faith that is nessesary to keep it all going. Many of the students have no idea what a real fight is, so they rely on these stories to validate the forms and stances that they practice.

Occasionally maybe they are true, who knows...as Cody said, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. But even then, people have to keep in mind that just because some old master was able to kick butt using his kung fu, or karate, or whatever, it doenst mean it will work for some slacker half-heartedly practicing some watered down version of the style.

[Merryprankster]

These stories are as nothing compared to the abilities of masters of the ancient Indian Art of Kalari Payattu.

Qi is a primitive concept, watered down from the orginal.

Sorry. Had to.

[wufupaul]

:rolleyes: Wushuchik..catchin bullets with yo teeth? Wahhhaahahaa! I don't worry too much about chi, if anyone gives me problems, I stick em in my fishtank full of piranhas, haha.

[myosimka]

Who is the master!?!


I AM. Ha-ha-ha!



Thank god the secrets of the martial arts can be revealed through drowning!

[yenhoi]

"the glow"



lol :D

[wushu chik]

Thank you, thank you. I had to say it, just got done watching the movie (my 4 year old LOVES it).

~wen~

[Ryu]

Do you guys know I have the soundtrack to the Last Dragon?

Bet you're jealous huh? ;)

Ryu

[Sandman2[Wing Chun]]

Originally posted by Ryu
Do you guys know I have the soundtrack to the Last Dragon?

Bet you're jealous huh? ;)

Ryu

Sho' Nuff!

heh

[TjD]

I heard that there was this ninja who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the ninja killed the whole town.

im serious
:)

peace
trav

[DelicateSound]

Once some guy was having a bad hair day, and I got so mad - I flipped out and killed him.

Later I saw a woman chewing gum - and so I Chi-Blasted (TM) her face until she dropped.

[Chinwoo-er]

The glow is nothing.


I just need to look at something with the 'thought' and they will be wiped from existance. No, I did not just kill them, that even my young apprentice can do. I would have erased then from reality.

No one will even remember they have existed. Surely you cannot remember that old friend of your's kungfuchik right ?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

~fades off into the background~................~thump!~

" Ouch ! "

Chinwoo-er

[LEGEND]

Waterdragon...dood peeps want to believe in the abilities that they don't have...hell I bought into it once...cause I was a skinny kid...who doesn't want to have KO capability with one blow to a bigger opponent...who doesn't want to stop their tormentors without learning hard work??? I would...it's really a GUN butttt...hehehe...so that's the reason why...peeps want to believe in these things to make them secure. That's why when they get their ass kick in full contact...they say stuff like if i could eye gouge you or kick u in the balls etc...they want to think they can win without learning the hard way!

[SevenStar]

yeah, I agree, especially in this day and time where it seems that everyone wants to get maximum benefit from minimum training. I prefer to believe that my ability comes from hard training, not just because I train in a style that will one day allow me to perform a chi blast or that have me thinking that all I have to do is eye gouge someone or kick them in the nads.

A quote from Jamin from "Fatal Fury: the Motion Picture":

"Isn't true strength found in nurturing one's own natural strengths and abilites?"

[wushu chik]

Originally posted by Chinwoo-er
Surely you cannot remember that old friend of your's kungfuchik right ?

Ha ha ha, jokes of YOU foolio.....I AM KUNGFUCHIK...reincarnated into WUSHU CHIK!!! HA HA HA HA...and that's because my GLOW saved me.

And you thought you were SOOOOOOO special didn't you??

~Wen~

[Silumkid]

All the masters know
that you need the Glow
you need the Glow the Glow the Glow
Cause when you love to live you live to love, ha
you got to move to the upper level
cause when you've got the Glow
you see it in your face
you feel it in your hands
and people understand
that you've got the Glow
and there's no stoppin' what you want to do

Hoooooooooo!

[jon]

I believe everything anybody tells me not just my instructor.
Im guilible:D
Seriously where did all of you guys find out about the Chi blasts?
I thought only we knew how to do this and it was sacred closed door knowledge?
You mma guys are just jelous becouse you dont have any 'high level' stuff like chi blasts and death touch!
ner ne ner ne ner ner
I dont have to fight and can hurt people with only my thoughts and you poor MMA saps are stick stuck in the dark ages trying to actualy physicaly damage people:p

Now if any of you fools try to rebut this post! Im going to be sending some of my 'pain giving chi' out to learn you some RESPECT!!!

[vingtsunstudent]

i love when grapplers & the like, say all you have is gouging the eyes but it won't stop me anyways.
well if this is true then they are biggers babies than we first may have thought.
get this, you can't use your chin to grind around the eyes(or other parts of the face) in these competitions as it is painful & will cause people to submit(there was a guy who used it in the oz ufc to win 2 of his fights) yet they can withstand your finger in there pulling on your eyeball.
also i remember not to long ago when evrybody said that bjj was the gear, now it seem it could be something else, wresting, pancrase, mabye even WWF.
or the gracies who' never lost, NOT ANY OF THEM, but now they just about all have lost in one tournament or another, make you really wonder what the level of all these fighters were that they fought over the years.
let the fun begin.
vts
ps i luv the one where my instuctor jumped from a 50 story biulding & wiped out an entire team of navy seals who'd been saying nasty things about his teacher who wiped out an entire state of america just for being silly.
you'd be just plain scared to death if i told you about my great grand poo bar, hell, you have to train in the style of krappling for many years to even be able to live through these.

[Kristoffer]

bananas.. true jizz

YOU figure it out.. :rolleyes:

[Merryprankster]

The fact that no ving tsun student has ever competed and been successful at a high level in MMA competition makes you wonder about the quality of fighters in the system.

Gee, that was simple, wasn't it?

Or are you going to complain about the rules being too limited now, even though there are venues in many countries that are far less restrictive than in the USA or Japan? If somebody is really interested in fighting without restrictions on their empty-hand techniques, there are places in Russia and Brazil that would be happy to have them.

[DelicateSound]

OK - I'm going to tempt the demon that is Merryprankster here for a little.

I think that the reason MMA guys are more successful in UFC tourneys is because of the more external, physical methods of training that lend themselves better to goal setting and reward, therefore enhansing perseverance creating a larger pool of skilled fighters.


Feel free to tear my ideas into pieces MPS. :)

[Merryprankster]

Nah, not good enough. :)

You need to be more specific. What do you mean by external? And how does external training serve goal setting and reward better than some other form?

And for the record, nobody who competes in the ring is completely ignorant of standing or ground stuff anymore. You'll just get murdered.

[DelicateSound]

I actually think that many CMA guys neglect their external training. If someone like [I know, I know...] Bruce Lee was to enter a UFC - he'd wup ass IMHO - cause of his physique and the speed and power of his strikes.

[Merryprankster]

But that's not a reason... it's an excuse.

All it takes is for them to step in the ring. If they don't want to, that's fine... but don't claim:

1. "if I could [insert technique here] then this would be all over."

2. "The "kung fu fighters" in the ring haven't been taught REAL [insert style here], and are poorly skilled.

Big pet peeves of mine. Do you have to train for the ring? Sure...but most of that, assuming you have martial skill, is now attribute training, as you pointed out (I believe this is what you are talking about when you say 'external').

[DelicateSound]

That's what I meant. Although I do believe that if an art like WingChun was perfected, and then cross-trained to allow for grapples and takedowns it'd do OK. Not perfectly - cause we've got the whole UFC/streetfighting scenario here - but it'd do good.

[Merryprankster]

I don't have a problem with that statement at all. I think it's probably right.

It's just that what vtstudent stated was sheer ignorance about both the ground game and the fight scene.

I also ALWAYS point out that if rules in the mainstream events are so prohibitive they preclude the proper use of a style, then there are venues that provide fewer (almost no) rules at all. They might not be easy to get to, but that's an excuse, not a reason. "Well, if there were a closer one, I'd do it?" I don't think so. If you want to compete in that environment, you want to compete, and you'll do it in Russia or Brazil or wherever.

If you don't that's fine too... but don't tell me travel is the "problem."

[DelicateSound]

Good. Then we agree! And I can climb out from under the truck that hit me in one of our other arguments :D

Yes, his statement was pretty single-minded - but we are part of an intellectual elite on this forum MPS! Don't let the cretins drag you down. [joke :D]

[man am I going to get sh!t for that one]

[Merryprankster]

yup.

I've never had a problem with "kung fu in the ring." I'm sure a KF fighter could do well. There's a post on the WC forum about a WT guy who won a UFC style bout. So much for the rule limitations...:rolleyes:

It takes--lots of sparring and cardio work.
enough knowledge of the ground to get back up.
lots of takedown defense work against somebody who
actually KNOWS how to do takedowns.


Those three things and you should have the requesit knowledge to make a good showing, at least.

[vingtsunstudent]

the rules are made for grappling, wake up.
if you can't see that then you are blind.
i used to work the door for many years & 2 guys were very competant grapplers, yet i saw there $hit go just bad as mine on more ocassions than mine.
reality is not in a ring or octagon.
in fact one of these guys(neil bodicott) was asked by mario sperry to go train with him in brasil after he fought him in the oz ufc(mario later found out that the guy had gone up against him with a broken jaw & was most impressed)
i am not naive as to the benifits of grappling & the power it pocesses but i am sick of this BS.
as to why we don't compete against egotistical steriod pumpin' freaks(yeh, i know none of them are like that) well i guess its because we're weak & you are a higher class of dikhead.
vts
ps. you forgot to tell me why you can't probe with your chin but yet you can withstand a finger behind your eyeball

[Merryprankster]

We're a higher class of dikhead... well, you said it, not me.

I don't think grappling is invincible. I think anybody who trains wrestling, BJJ, or Judo and thinks it will suffice is full of crap. It won't.

The rules are not made for grapplers, but that is a totally different thread. They've made an effort to balance the rules so that they don't favor the grapplers or the strikers. This argument rages in the MMA community. Since it's so intense and heartfelt on both sides, I'm imagining that it's probably about even. If you're ****ing off the extremes of either end, you're probably doing it right.

The chin to the eye is about breaking the eye socket. It causes almost no pressure on the eye. The chin to the eye submission is executed from a superior position, or if you are FREAKY strong, (ala Mark Kerr) possibly from inside somebody's guard. This entails body and head control. I am intimately aware of the chin in the eye submission because wrestlers often use it as illegal pain compliance when the ref isn't able to see what's going on.

We'll talk about an eye-poke. I've been poked in the eye before, during a wrestling match. It made my eye water and I lost my depth perception for the match. I won anyway because I don't have to see to grapple. Hardly debilitating.

Now we'll talk about the eye-GOUGE, which is something different. An eye gouge tries to scoop the eye out with a thumb or finger. To do this, you HAVE to have head control, or the opponent will (GASP!) move their HEAD so you can't do it. If you attempt to grab your opponents head from an inferior position, you are in severe danger of getting armlocked. If you know nothing about grappling on the ground, then I venture to say that against a submission guy on the ground, you will almost CERTAINLY get armlocked. So, it's not really a matter of "taking the finger sticking in my eye," it's a matter of YOU getting head control, and to GET that control, you have to attain positional superiority, plain and simple. If you don't you can't control my head, and if you can't control my head, you can't gouge.

The exception to this is if you are in your opponents guard and you are much stronger (ala mark kerr) than your opponent. You might be able to control the head long enough to actually gouge an eye with some effectiveness instead of just annoyingly.

I don't doubt the prowess of your partners or friends--why the hell didn't you train with them?!

[vingtsunstudent]

ok
having been drunk & in very bad positions on 2 ocassions(both times having had chunks bitten out of me) i have used fingers in the eyes & i can tell you that if it is in there it is nothing about superior position it is about pain.(let me tell you once inserted the pig squealing you will here is where it is at)
i have got down & wrestled & there are many times from many positions i could have used it to get out of unfavourable positions.
ah laa mark kerr, did someone mention they free sust. 250
as to probing with the chin, are you saying i can use it but only not on the eye...........BS.........tell me about using it on the ear or around your chin or where your jaw joins.
it is a ring with rules, wake up.
you can't tap on the streets unless your on top & doin' it to somebodies head.
vts

[Merryprankster]

You're right, I'm wrong.

I'll drop it. We have differing viewpoints.

The Kwoons not the street either.

Good luck in the training.