Punching Power

[Sec]

Ok for those of you who train at home do you think that using a 3 section wall bag helps you build power in your punching?
Also what do you find is the best thing to fill them with beans or rice? do you pack each section with the same amount or fill them as if you were hitting body parts ie: head , chest and stomach
I'm just trying to get as much info on this subject as possable :)

Thanx for any replies!

[sunkuen]

Beans are by far the best...just don't get the ones in the can!!!:)

[Jeff Liboiron]

I filled a couple socks full of beans, they work well.

[Martial Joe]

Do your air punching,work on your form of the punch,do it slow...

Thats all I have to say...

[Ish]

I use a 3 section bag a few times a week and find it helps quite a bit, not just with generating the power but also how to accept it. my bag is filled with sand and they all filled the same amount which is quite full. theres another good thread about wall bags you should do a search, theres probly a few.

[Gazza]

What Joe said;)

Gary

[IronFist]

Mung beans are probably the best, but I've never seen them for sale anywhere, so I'd probably use kidney beans I guess (I think that's what they are.. they're like grey colored).

IronFist

[Mutant]

Agreed with Martial Joe.
Break it down and distill the form of the punch, eliminate any unessesary tension, movement, telegraph, etc.
Practice it slow for a while and then work on adding quick explosive power. Work to develop fast twitch mucsle quality in the air first, do lots of fast reps once the technique is correct.
Not that hitting pads is bad, it can be good too, but the answer to speed is not in the beans, its in perfecting your strike; hitting a pad or bags before thats honed will only corrupt your technique, IMHO.

[Martial Joe]

Try doing it slow enough so you cant see it move while keeping it relaxed and having good form...


Do that everynight and you will hurt poeple...

[old jong]

Bags are for conditionning the hands and don't make your punches more powerfull. Good technique as found in the forms will give you punching power.
Doing pushups and things like that develop muscles that can be usefull when you are moving furnitures around or if you are practicing a sport but again,you won't need those to throw a good Wing Chun punch. ;)

[Martial Joe]

So listen to me you silly yuppies!!!!:rolleyes:

[vingtsunstudent]

nothing will build power except for good technique.
power can be developed in the air alone but using a bag is a good way to test everything stance, alignment & a whole heap of other things.
your main benifits on a bag will be being able to handle the force of hitting something solid & developing a strong wrist & forearm(both of which have a real tendencey to be hurt during a fight due to the target not just standing still & waiting to be hit) due to the return force the bag sends back at you.
vts

[Roy D. Anthony]

Too Bad you guys.........if you train with the bags it DOES actually help develop power!!! guys don't miss the boat!...LOL:)

[old jong]

Hey Roy!.
Looks like you are all alone on the deck of your boat!...We all missed it! ;)

[Roy D. Anthony]

Well Old Jong, no need for the insults now. Just should investigate before making your answers. :)

[old jong]

What insults?...:confused:

[Alpha Dog]

If you use a sand/beanbag as a target, you're gonna toughen your hands. My original Sifu had one on his wall and you could have used the backs of his hands to take paint off a railing. But what is your objection to the idea of using the bag to also build power? I see nothing wrong with this.

[arsenal_fc]

Originally posted by vingtsunstudent
nothing will build power except for good technique.
power can be developed in the air alone but using a bag is a good way to test everything stance, alignment & a whole heap of other things.
your main benifits on a bag will be being able to handle the force of hitting something solid & developing a strong wrist & forearm(both of which have a real tendencey to be hurt during a fight due to the target not just standing still & waiting to be hit) due to the return force the bag sends back at you.
vts

when you hit the punching bag, where do you aim your punch?

[Matrix]

The center of mass.

Matrix

[benny]

your sternum height slightly rising. adjust bag so you hit the bag about 5/6" from bottom( depending on bag, bottom half)

[old jong]

But I will try to answer Alpha Dog question...
Punching a wall bag will not develop more power to your punch.It will condition your hands so you can punch harder without damaging them!The hands (and your mind! ) get used to the impact and gradually can endure more.
Good technique gives power and the bag condition the tool.

[Alpha Dog]

Thanks, gotcha now

[cobra]

I have to agree with Roy D. on this one. The wall bag absolutely does improve your punching power, unless you're not using it right. If you're using it right, you will be able to tell. If you can't tell, then you're not using it right. If you are already having trouble with being too tense though, I would stick to air punches.

I gave up a whole dollars worth on this one.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Power is something that you can train, but very difficult to develop, since power is a derivative of mass and acceleration. Usually, due to mega tension, many people hinder their power. Many people mistake things by saying you can develop power, the main way you can do that is by simply increasing your mass. But to utilize more power one needs to train to relax, so that tension does not hinder your acceleration. Thus allowing one to use their full inbred power.
Hope this helps!!!

[Sharky]

I have filled mine with rice.

When you actually hit something, all of your energy goes into that "thing". You are totally relaxing your bicep (in theory) and you are going for it 100%.

When doing air punches, you need to use your bicep to pull the punch and so you don't hyperextend your elbow joint. People often mistake this as a "powerful snap at the end of the punch". It is not. You need to actually hit things to learn how to deliver your power into and THROUGH the object you are hitting.

It repulses me how many wing chunners never actually hit anything at all, and don't spar.

Sorry.

[Killerbee]

Hi,

I do karate and we learn to give our punches extra speed --> power but using hip rotation, my karate teacher told me once that kung fu people dont do this but do lots of arm exercises to gain power, what kind of stuff do you do to give your punches more power?

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

huh?

[LEGEND]

Your instructor must be talking about the CHAIN PUNCHing in most CMA arts. Yes they don't have alot of power but it's more to set up an opponent for a trap or get close for elbows, knees, sweeps etc( Heavy artillery ).

Use boxing drills...they seem to be modern and updated! Not really rocket science.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i had to read that a couple times man.

i hit the bag a lot.

some of the mixed martial arts guys might say i'm full of ****, but i have also had a lot of results by going through all of my movements very very slowly. just repete any movement or set staying very relaxed and extremely focused. the theory behind going slow, the way i understand it, is that you are giving your body much more time to internalize and perfect the movements. it improves your form, makes you more relaxed with the movement, and gives you the chance to feel what your entire body should be doing behind the strike. i have had awesome results in both speed and power training this way.

i have no idea why your teacher told you kung fu guys don't rotate their hips for power. wing chun guys don't (as far as i know), but every other style i have heard about uses hip rotation behind a lot of their strikes. in addition to hip rotation some styles will use sinking, raising, and coiling power as well. i think there are a bunch of other types of jings, but those are the main ones to my knowlege.

[PLCrane]

We put our hips into our punches to give them more power. (surprised?) It helps a lot to have the foot unweighted on the same side that you're punching, so that the hip is free to drive the punch. And it helps a lot to be relaxed; tension will slow down any moves.

Which way did you rotate your hip? Did it rotate around your vertical axis, like you were spinning, or did it rotate around the horizontal axis, like you were doing a pelvic tilt on that side? Both at once is a better way to describe it. Hip goes toward the target.

[CD Lee]

In Xingyi, ,Bagua, and Tai Chi, our school teaches the rotation of the waist for whole body power in the punches.

BTW, you know in junior high, when you used to trade punches with a guy to the arm? You know, one guy stands there and lets the other slug him as hard as he wants, then they take turns until one has had enough? I learned from a karate book a straight power punch, where you rotate the hips into the punch, while turning over the fist. I blasted the **** out of everybody using that one. Nobody could beat me. Pretty stupid, but at the time it seemed pretty mature!!! The point is, if you do it right, your Karate punch can deliver quite a viscious blow!

[TaoBoy]

The power comes from the ground and is magnified through the knees, hips, waist and shoulders - it explodes out of the hand.

Strikes can also be performed with minimal hip movement using tension in the waist (a lot like coiling a spring). Maybe that's what your instructor was getting at.

If you wanna find out for yourself, join in on a few CMA classes - it can't hurt (well unless you get punched in the head). :D

[Choke]

What GDA said about doing your form very slowly with complete intent and concentration. That and well like I said in another post, use steel rings, oh and good body mechanics of course.

[hazhardy]

Right wing chun tech headz, listen up.
i need your help on puching power, wing chun styleé.
i study wing chun, but, i am starting to wonder how to increase my punching power by using my whole bodyweight right? except, without leaning forward too much and becoming off balance,,,, i.e. how do you punch using your whole body weight whilst maintaining 60-40 stance (arrow walk/ circle step)??? (mainly straight punches,, u know, chain-punch type)
any advice would be much appreciated.
cheers
thehza

[hazhardy]

i need your help on puching power.
i study wing chun, but i am starting to wonder how to increase my punching power by using my whole bodyweight? except, without leaning forward too much and becoming off balance,,,, i.e. how do you punch using your whole body weight whilst maintaining 60-40 stance (arrow walk/ circle step)??? (mainly straight punches,, u know, chain-punch type)
Now if you don't study wing chun, don't bail on me,,,,,, i still am interested to know the concept of powerful punch techniques for whatever punch....
any advice would be much appreciated.
cheers
thehza

[Don J]

heya at the gym i train at , im taught to keep the weight 50/50, but we do lots of pad and bag work.

[IRONMONK]

Jack Dempseys book might give you some ideas:

http://www.freewebs.com/strulz/jackdempseysbook.htm

[Tom Kagan]

Within the context of a Ving Tsun training methodology, the way to increase your punching power is to practice BiuKwan, BiuKwan, and more BiuKwan.

You have working on all the prerequisite steps to prepare yourself for this moment, right?


:)

[Ho Chun]

To increase your punching power, start by rotating your sternum. If you are punching with your right, and have your left foot forward, your sternum will be at the right angle. When you punch (with the right) turn your sternum to the opposite side.

As this improves, you'll need to start using your hip. But, this will do for now.

Also, start this exercise program;

http://www.noweightsworkout.com/exercises/armgrabs.php

I hope this helps.

[hazhardy]

thank you kindly dudes,,,keep the info comin'
hza

[SevenStar]

fisrt off, buy a heavy bag. the best way to get better at punching is to punch. Second, always watch your form. Consciously think "foot, hip, shoulder" when you punch. you drive off of the foot, rotate the hip, then put your shoulder into it.

in thai boxing or boxing, there is also the concept of sitting down on your punches.

[fa_jing]

In wing chun, you rotate the hip but the shoulder doesn't rotate past the hip more than an inch or two, unlike a boxing cross. The most important points are to coordinate the step with the hip rotation, sink, and keep the elbow and shoulder down. Use a heavy bag and focus mitts to develop power and pop, respectively.

[couch]

To echo Tom and say some more:

1.Candle Punch
2.Sand Bag
3.Battle Punch
4.Pole-Thrusting

Making your punch effective and strong takes a lot of time and patience. I believe that if you practise a little by little - eventually the power will come to where you want it.

I want to be able to blow through my seniors in Chi Sao...now! But it'll never happen. If I'm busy wanting something...I'm not in the moment training something. Practise the drills your instructor has given you and over time...the power will come. Don't force the power through the punch either...or it will be too stiff or you won't be able to relax the body after the punch.

Now that's getting philosophical on my ass!

Peace,
Kenton

[IronFist]

in thai boxing or boxing, there is also the concept of sitting down on your punches.

Can you explain that please?

[mickey]

Hello hazhardy,

I had a phone conversation with the late Fred M.A. Wu many years ago where he was kind enough to talk to me about the training at the training institute that he went to. He told me that there practitioners were quite creative in their studies and as a result new styles were being developed. It was a beautiful time. He told me of a style that one of his friends had developed that was very powerful and terribly effective. It was called....drum roll please......WING CHUN XING YI!!! Wing Chun combined with the Xing Yi, power of the body, punching mechanics.


I have been holding on to that bit of info for over 15 years just to share with someone. You are the first to get it. Maybe I need to get out more.


mickey

[mickey]

From a technical perspective,

Seriously develop the muscles that bring the fist back to the body. For the vertical punch that would be the forearms, biceps, rear deltoids and the lateral muscles.

Talk with FooFighter, Samurai Jack, Iron Fist or Toby. They have the goods to help you out with.

Oops, I forgot Vash, the True Hand of Isshin. :)

mickey

[Liddel]

Apart from the obvious like hitting a bag or focus mits to give yourself heavy hands,
try using turning power when punching, or practice more Chum Kui, which will increase power by improving turning stepping combining with hands.
The body will add power to a punch.

Or for a 'sharper' punch lots of SLT, heun Sao is everywhere in VT form, this is increasing our inch power, so huen Sao or Bui Sao more more more.

Also press ups, but distiguish between good for VT and Bad.
Good IMO is when you do them with elbows/forearm close to your side not flying out which uses different muscle groups.
This increases elbow power which also plays a big part in th VT punch.

In my experience these are just simple easy things that you can do to get near instant results...
Good luck there slugger :)

[KPM]

Right wing chun tech headz, listen up.
i need your help on puching power, wing chun styleé.
i study wing chun, but, i am starting to wonder how to increase my punching power by using my whole bodyweight right? except, without leaning forward too much and becoming off balance,,,, i.e. how do you punch using your whole body weight whilst maintaining 60-40 stance (arrow walk/ circle step)??? (mainly straight punches,, u know, chain-punch type)
any advice would be much appreciated.
cheers
thehza


The way I do my WCK, I get augmented power and make more optimum use of bodyweight by connecting the hips/kua with the punch kind of like a western boxer. The movement comes from the kua/tan tien area and is transmitted up the torso and out as the punch with a "wave" or "whip" like action. At first it is a big "wave". But as you get better at it and refine it more it is less and less noticeable while still connecting the punch with the kua and making good use of bodyweight. This does not work if you are "tucking" your pelvis far under and "locking" it. If you want more info, go back a month or so to the thread on "short power" or "inch power."

Keith

[Ravenshaw]

Before practicing this system, I was used to kickboxing and Northern Sil Lum, which used some different power generation methods like turning the hips. Now, I am getting used to staying square while punching. Here are some things that help me.

Clearly, I will get more power if I step or turn in to the punch. Another method I use for a "power" punch (versus very rapid punching like chain punches) is similar to the XingYi system's Fire punch. I tighten my abs and fold my body a tiny bit (it's a subtle movement, not big or anything), then I straighten when I attack. I feel like this gives me more explosive power. I'm still experimenting with it.

Staying loose is a good method for me, especially while rapidly punching. I find that I get deeper impact when my arm is as relaxed as possible. This is also important because if my arm is at all tense, I can't use my chi sau. When someone blocks, I want my arm to automatically turn into bong sau or whatever the appropriate shape would be... without having to see it and think about it.

Anyway, that's what helps me.

[SevenStar]

Can you explain that please?


basically just planting hard and putting your full body completely into the punch. If you watch alot of the weaker, *but in some cases* faster boxers, they just punch. They rotae some, but not necessarily completely, and they don't plant hard. That hard planting and twisting is known as sitting down on the punch.

[GreenCloudCLF]

First: As for planting your foot for the punch, I believe a more appropriate analogy is like you are pushing the floor with your foot.You foot should not just pivot on the floor but should be using the floor to gain more power, pushing off (without coming off the floor)

Second: After you buy the recommended heavy bag, buy a long resistance band tube. Put it around the bag, hold the handles and get into a fighting stance and throw punches with the tube in your hand. This will give you resistance training that works the muscle of the punch becuae you are punching.

[SevenStar]

First: As for planting your foot for the punch, I believe a more appropriate analogy is like you are pushing the floor with your foot.You foot should not just pivot on the floor but should be using the floor to gain more power, pushing off (without coming off the floor)

Second: After you buy the recommended heavy bag, buy a long resistance band tube. Put it around the bag, hold the handles and get into a fighting stance and throw punches with the tube in your hand. This will give you resistance training that works the muscle of the punch becuae you are punching.

Actually, I think the most appropriate word is drive. You drive off of the rear root. That can sound vague though - plant is easier to understand.

the tube is a decent method. you don't have to wrap it around the bag though - that's actually not prefereable, as the bag moves. wrap it around a stationary pillar, or wrap it around yourself. By wrapping it around yourself, you will still have free range of movement and you can train your footwork as well as punching.

[SevenStar]

Another thing we use is the medicine ball. Hold it in your lead hand. Now, throw it to your partner, using the motion of the jab. throw your arm straight out, and bring it straight back. your partner will throw the ball back to you in a similar fashion. We also do this for the straight right.

[GreenCloudCLF]

7*,

I like that last one about the medicine ball. It also works gripping/clawing skill. My training brother and Ijust did a couple of throws, and it was good.

[SevenStar]

Glad ya like it. That one is a favorite of mine.

[Cung-Fu]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is, you can also increse your power by learning to explode your body muscles as quick as possible, along with the body mechanics mentioned. Strictly speaking "impact energy", increase in speed will bring about a lot more damage to your opponent.

[Samurai Jack]

No one's mentioned iron-fist/iron-palm training. Of course most iron skills can't really be taught over the internet, but the conditioning methods develop punching power very well. One of my favorite basic methods is to grab a thick phonebook, set it on a concrete floor, and kneel with the phonebook beteen your knees. Punch it one hundred times a day and apply Dit Da Jow liberally on the hands (commercial jow is fine). Once you've done this for two months and your wrists and hands are toughened up somewhat, begin removing a single sheet from the phonebook every day. If you use a nice, thick metropolitan phonebook, it'll take around a year and a half or so to get to where you're hitting bare concrete. By that time you'll have excellent short power and rock-hard knuckles, which will complement an infighting style like Wing Chun very well.

Use this method at your own risk, but it really does work well, and is almost fool-proof.

[IronFist]

^ I've heard of people doing that with the phone book on the wall. I'm not sure how they'd mount it on the wall, tho.

[Samurai Jack]

You could easily mount a phonebook on a short concrete wall, or on a flat-faced post with a pair of C-clamps. Then you'd just tighten the clamps as you removed the sheets. I haven't done this, but it would obviously work. Mounting your book upright would probably let you work your punching mechanics too. I just thing the phonebook-on-the-floor method is simpler.

[7th gen yang]

i need your help on puching power.
i study wing chun, but i am starting to wonder how to increase my punching power by using my whole bodyweight? except, without leaning forward too much and becoming off balance,,,, i.e. how do you punch using your whole body weight whilst maintaining 60-40 stance (arrow walk/ circle step)??? (mainly straight punches,, u know, chain-punch type)
Now if you don't study wing chun, don't bail on me,,,,,, i still am interested to know the concept of powerful punch techniques for whatever punch....
any advice would be much appreciated.
cheers
thehza

Here's a Little test for you
Stand up straight feet shoulder width apart
take and raise your right or left arm to shoulder height in front of yourself
have someone push the Raised arm down try to resist

now take your right or left arm which ever you used, and take the other arm and place it on the opposite shoulder of the arm you raised palm resting on the shoulder
now raise the opposing arm to shoulder height and have somebody try to push it down try to resist, tell me where your power comes from?

[IronFist]

Here's a Little test for you
Stand up straight feet shoulder width apart
take and raise your right or left arm to shoulder height in front of yourself
have someone push the Raised arm down try to resist

now take your right or left arm which ever you used, and take the other arm and place it on the opposite shoulder of the arm you raised palm resting on the shoulder
now raise the opposing arm to shoulder height and have somebody try to push it down try to resist, tell me where your power comes from?

You've just proved that your anterior deltoid (front shoulder muscle) is responsible for holding your arm up and resisting gravity (a force pressing downward in this case). When you punch the effort with which you must resist gravity is very minimal. Does your shoulder play a role in punching? Absolutely. Is it the most important muscle? No. Even if you increase your power in this position it likely wouldn't contribute much to a harder punch. When you punch you're resisting a force in front of you, not a force pushing down from above.

[7th gen yang]

You've just proved that your anterior deltoid (front shoulder muscle) is responsible for holding your arm up and resisting gravity (a force pressing downward in this case). When you punch the effort with which you must resist gravity is very minimal. Does your shoulder play a role in punching? Absolutely. Is it the most important muscle? No. Even if you increase your power in this position it likely wouldn't contribute much to a harder punch. When you punch you're resisting a force in front of you, not a force pushing down from above.

what is really happening is you have crossed the center of your body with your other arm and the structure of your body is not lined up. This is why you cannot massage yourself without any kind of real power. same holds true to your technique the structure of the human body is important to your power everything has to line up if it just a little off you will not have power this also holds true to Taijiquan Look at the technique of (peng)

[ElPietro]

I agree with sevenstar, to punch better, punch more, and work on form.

When I was in thai boxing they would always emphasize snapping your hand back after a punch. I believe this helped become more explosive, faster, but more importantly, better protected.

Anyone can put their fulll weight behind a punch given a bit of form work, but what position does that leave them in afterwards?

As the rest have said already in here, a punch involves virtually the whole body. You are planted and driving with legs, rotating/exploding with your hips, extending with your triceps and part of the deltoid, and trying to pull back as fast as you can, which would be biceps/forearm/delts.

So if you are using your whole body in this motion, strengthen your whole body, other than that, just get good at punching. There is almost a limitless amount of improvement you can make. No matter how fundamentally good your jab or cross is, you can always improve it on it's own, or in a variety of new combinations.

[GeneChing]

READ The Punching Power of Chinese Wushu & Other Disciplines By Emilio Alpanseque in our WINTER 2019 issue (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1446). Available digitally too via Zinio (https://www.zinio.com/publisher/kung-fu-tai-chi-m5078).

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