Verbal assault!!

[Open Stance...]

Hey people!!

Just wondering if you had any good techniques/stories on how to deal with someone BEFORE physicaly attacking them?

My dad used to give them a laser stare and jab them in the sternum with his index finger...seemed to work!!!

Maybe a good line to warn them off??

"if you dont back off in 3 seconds im gunna mutilate your face and eat your children!!!"

(or maybe not!!!)

Thanks!!

Open stance....

[Ryu]

Being able to keep your cool in the encroachment is a very real skill and a valuable one. Saying "back off or I'll...." will usually instigate a fight even if the attacker didn't really want to fight. You've upped the situation and put his ego in need of retribution. That's not good street smarts. That macho bull. De-escalation is what you should be trying to do. If you want to launch a first strike you better be damm well sure there is proper justification. A reasonable threat has to exist.
When someone is in your face and you place your hands up in a non-threatening manner, palms out, you can A. protect your centerline, and B) attack first if you need to.
Some people will slap your hands away, keep encroaching, etc. If you've tried to difuse the situation and you know the person is going to attack, hit first, and hit him hard and keep hitting him.
In an encroachment the first person to hit usually wins.

But forget the tough talk. It invites a strike from the opponent.
De-escalate. Get his anger down, bring his ego up without looking like you're timid or afraid. Just not wanting any trouble. If he persists....knock him out.

Ryu

[respectmankind]

i have the best crazy, detached, want to bleed you look.

[red_fists]

Hi.

I agree with Ryu.

Try to difuse it by talking. But remain calm and firm.

Many a times I have avoided a fight in a Pub, by buying the Guy a drink and chatting with him over the cold one.

A pint is cheaper than the trip to the Hospital.
:D :D

[Tae Li]

Here is the best idea you have ever heard....

use Jet Li's line from KOD..


."I would appreciate it, if you didnt do that again",


and make sure you say it with a Jet accent and watch them run to the arctic.... (otherwise just whip their asss)

Tae Li;)

[xiong]

I also am with Ryu on this one. Using conciliatory language and making it clear you don't want to fight are the goal.

Look at it from your own perspective, if someone told you they were going to mop up the floor with you would your ego let you back down.

As has been said by many strategists, always leave your opponent a way out. If they feel there is no room for retreat they will be forced to fight. This works in the verbal arena as well.

Anyway you don't want to be that "Back off, I know Kung Fu!" guy. Never fight with anyone unless they leave you no choice, then obliterate them.

[ewallace]

If you have reached the point that you are sure it is necessary to use force, you can ask a question that will momentarily take their mind off of the beating they want to give you. Something like "weren't you in my biology class in high school?". They WILL stop to think about this one if only for a second. It's human nature. When they stop to think about it, give 'em a little something to...jar their memory :)

[red5angel]

Open Stnace, if you get the oppurtunity, check out something called Verbal Judo. They often offer classes in most large cities. Its a way of talking people down. Alot of police/security forces use it. My boss who works for the local police department uses it, and teaches it.

[guohuen]

I've had a lot of experience with this and believe me, talking people down only works with people that didn,t really want to fight in the first place. With people that do, It's just a sign of weakness. A Torrent of vile discusting abusive threatening language can be very effective against a serious opponent if you can convince them that you are not only prepared but looking forward to backing it up.
Most of these crisis intervention courses are taught by complete idiots with no real world experience. The courses in themselves are not too bad, mostly common sense, but you have to have an actual personality to use any off this stuff effectively. In three out of four cases I have witnessed, (and I 'm being generous) the "trained experts" have escalated the situation because the suspect (or whatever) sees right through their classroom BS because they don't have enough sense to get real and improvise. The more they stick to the classroom shtick, the more agitated the person gets. The only thing of value I've seen in this kind of training is being able to identify the four levels of aggresion.
1. Agitated
2.Disruptive
3.Assaultive
4.Lethal

[Ryu]

The trick is to rationally let him know you aren't looking for a confrontation but keep yourself firm in the process. I know this from experience too, when you get back in the person's face and start cussing, etc. You've just challenged him, and upped the fight. The only way the "tough guy" stuff works is if the guy is smaller than you are usually, and if that's the case I am not sure why he's stepping to you anyway.
Being timid is a bad idea, but being diplomatic is a good one. If the guy takes it as weakness and persists strike him first and keep nailing him until he's neutralized. Firstest with the mostest is the bestest. ;)

Ryu

[Ryu]

I've been in encroachment scenarios where I made the other guy back down by just looking like I wanted to kill him. :) So occasionally it can work, but I think with the ego fighter who's trying to impress his girlfriend, it's a mistake. He now HAS to fight you, even if he didn't want to.

Ryu

[red5angel]

Guohuen - I do agree that it does have a lot to do with your personality, how well you can talk someone down. I work in an environment where I get to see this from alot of different apsects. I do security at a seasonal venue and we have a lot of different personalities. For some of them, it never works, mostly because of attitude, body posture, lack of control. For others it works very well. I have found however that even people who seem to want to fight, are often just caught up in the emotions of the situation. The real trick is to give these people some time to realize what they are doing. Most people will at some point become rational, even if they stay beligerant. that is the trick behind this Verbal Judo. You learn to calm a person down and buy yourself and them enough time to cool off and realise it isnt worth it.
We did have a good instructor, and it has pretty much always worked for me.

Ryu - You are correct, but also you learn that anything that can be construed as combatitive, or condescending can cause problems and should be avoided. Alot of this is in delivery and attitude.

[Ryu]

Absolutely.

[guohuen]

I think it's relatively easy to talk most people down if their having an eposode of agggresion that's not premeditated and they haven't reached the assaultive level yet. It's not really important what you say as long as you are yourself and real. They're just looking for something to hang on to so you just talk.

:eek: OOPS! I forgot one! OK, so I grew up in the sixties.
1.Agitated
2.Disruptive
3.Distructive
4.Assaultive
5.Lethal
My coments about verbal assault are for people you are sure are at level 4.

[red5angel]

Gotcha! You are correct, someone who has reached this stage can be difficult to bring down. And you are also correct in saying someone who has reached this stage is probably a problem child anyway and just looking for an excuse. Although, I would have to say that in the past I think it is surprising how well this can still work on these people as well. Generally at that point though a firm hand towards the door is usually recquired!
Thats one of the things we were taught to identify in this VJ class. By studying body language, general attitude, condition (intoxicated, etc..) and attitude of any companions.

[Badger]

Put a battery on your shoulder & dare him to knock it off.




Badger

[Cody]

I have something to add.

While, it's rare that I have been confronted with potential physical violence out of the blue, there are some things I have given thought to or experienced.

1. if the opponent is crazed or talking (cause that's the open door to negotiation), or crazed and talking, I might try to talk he/she down. Find out what he wants. Is it a bad day? might be negotiable. Need to make a quick judgment as to whether violent domination is the only thing that will keep this person "happy," in which case it's fight or flight. If there is a moment when you can just walk away, take it.
I guess something to keep in mind is what makes perfect sense to me, might not have any meaning to the other person. It's establishing common ground, or putting one's self way above them such that they know it and will get away. that could make the difference. better known as nerves of steel and thinking on your feet.
For more than one opponent at a time (outside of my experience), if the leader isn't listening, I guess you're in trouble. unless, the supporters quit and leader is shortcircuited by this.

2. on a personal level, my response to a potentially violent situation, except for a statement of what I'm there for (if it's my entrance on the scene that causes the other person to go haywire), and possibly to tell that person to get hands off me if the person comes at me to bully (not to do actual harm), is to go mute after that. I do not and cannot talk, generally (even to call for help) while preparing to defend myself or during defense. I might look as fierce as heck or go dead calm, but with no speech. Maybe a growl, that's it. It's like the focus turns off the speech center in the brain, no words, hardly any thoughts with words, primal. As soon, as the threat is past or I'm not in 100% on guard, I'm in chat mode again. no problem.
So, I wonder, do this happen with any of you?

Cody

[JWTAYLOR]

Go to Amazon.com and look up the book that started the craze, "Verbal Judo". There is a sequel to it as well. I haven't read the sequel, but the first book, "Verbal Judo" should be in every martial artist's bookshelf.

You will find that the book focuses on showing the "assailant" that you are niether a victim or a threat and getting the opponnet to view the situation in a more rational manner.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

JWT

[red5angel]

I have learned working security where I do that sometimes, talking can take too long, and doesnt help. Generally, after I approach a person/group, and ask them politely to desist with whatever the problem is, two things will happen, they will or they wont. Then I explain, still politely, that this is not the place, and if it continues I will have to aks them to leave. If it continues, I am done talking, by then usually my backup has arrived and I am walking them out the gate.

Personally, I find that if they do not want to talk it out, walking away calmly almost always shuts them down. They may make some off hand remarks about how weak I am (using of course other explatives) but in general it has usually worked for me. The one instance it didnt, he grabbed my collar and I put him in a wrist lock.