Pak Mei info

[dezhen2001]

Hi all,

I've been interested in Pak Mei and the other Hakka styles for a while now, and was wondering if any of you guys can help me...

When i've looked on the internet and things about Pak Mei, there seems to be a number of common sites. Most of them have a different number and/or order of forms... I was just wondering what could have caused there to be such a difference? I mean with things like Wing Chun, it's pretty standard that there are 3 unarmed forms and 2 weapons... Maybe they have slightly different names (especially the knives), but they're still kinda standard across the board.
I know Hakka styles and particularly Pak Mei are secretive, so was just trying to figure things out... maybe you guys can help?

thanks in advance,
david

[fiercest tiger]

The main forms to look for are: jik bo, gou bou toy, sup baat mor, and mung fu chaat lum.

The rest are added and taught be clc and different versions where also depending on how much money they had!!:)

good luck
FT

[sanjia]

Fierce Tiger :
"The main forms to look for are: jik bo, gou bou toy, sup baat mor, and mung fu chaat lum."

Well said sir. Simple and to the point, much like Pak Mei :-)

Mark S

[dezhen2001]

Thanks for the info FT and Sanjia!

Where do the rest of the forms come from? Are they Li Gar and Lung Ying or something?
Also, i thought there was meant to be another form after those four and weapons as well? (at least i read that on http://www.dryqwong.com).
I'm just trying to find an authentic school here in the UK. Does anyone know of one?

Hey FT, i looked at your website :) How does your YKM actually differ from Pak Mei? From some of your other posts, they seem to be very closely related...

Thanks guys,

david

[fiercest tiger]

The difference is the name, ykm changed its name when the grandmaster went to hongkong to teach.

YKM is from guangzhou canton, we have the same sets of course, a few differences in the way we move will also depends on teacher and the way the student is taught also there abilities. But look all over the world, pak mei is different from every teacher as long as the recipe is the same all the principles are the same you should have no problems learning it!

another level after the fierce tiger exits the forest..if you are talking about 5 elements then maybe there is, maybe not Its said it was only talked about but no form, maybe made up by clc sons!!

Respect
FT:)

[mono68]

Footnote:

Cheung lai chung learned three styles 1) Lung ying, 2) lee ga,
and 3) beggar /vagabond style. the weapons come from either lee ga or beggar/vagabond style. Also as mentioned Cheung lai chung taught many people differently some with palms, or claws
some with Lung ying bows other with the white eyebrow bow.
I read and was told this by Pak mei practitioners and Lung ying Practitioners.

[CannonFist]

where does the other forms come from? Well my guess for the hand forms are:-

Sup Ji - vagabond
Tay Sart- vagabond, but I have also heard that this is original Pak Mei (from CHuk Fat Wan)
Sarm Moon - Lee Gar
Sei Moon Bat Gua - Cheung Lai Chuen's creation
Ying Jow Lim Kiu - Dragon style

[EAZ]

Originally posted by CannonFist
where does the other forms come from? Well my guess for the hand forms are:-

Tay Sart- vagabond, but I have also heard that this is original Pak Mei (from CHuk Fat Wan)


I was wondering where you heard that Tay Sart was an original form?

All the best,
EAZ

[Pak Mei student]

dezhen2001


There is a person name Lee Kwok Pui. He is famous inside of London Chinatown. Everyone knows him. many pak mei sifu knows him. He fought with Bruce Lee in Lee's family kung Fu association.(Many Pak mei circle know this. You don't have to believe it.)
Nevertheless,He is very good. He is the first inner disciple under Cheung Bing FAT. Lee Kwok Pui has the form of Cheung Bing Fat, not the external expression of Cheung Bing FAT.

[CannonFist]

I heard that the Earth Spirit Set came from Chuk Fat Wan from an old time practitioner of Pak Mei in Melbourne who was originally from China.

[Pak Mei student]

This is quite interesting! I wonder how much money this guy make.

[EAZ]

Originally posted by CannonFist
I heard that the Earth Spirit Set came from Chuk Fat Wan from an old time practitioner of Pak Mei in Melbourne who was originally from China.

Thanks.

Earth spirit Set = "Fighting/killing on the ground" form?

[fiercest tiger]

Does anyone of you practise or teach this form?

Some teachers didnt learn it because they couldnt go down to the ground and hurt there wrist, so it was modified quiet a bit. :rolleyes:

later guys
FT:)

[CannonFist]

Fiercest Tiger,

I guess some say Earth Killing and others say Earth Spirit/Ghost, depending on the Chinese characters used but they have the same sound in Cantonese.

[dezhen2001]

There is a person name Lee Kwok Pui. He is famous inside of London Chinatown.

I've never heard of Lee Kwok Pui. Does he teach in Chinatown? What is he famous for...?

Thanks,
david

[Pak Mei student]

I've never heard of Lee Kwok Pui. Does he teach in Chinatown? What is he famous for...?

You should! He is famous even in Pak mei circle.

[Pak Mei student]

Yes. I heard of earth killing. My sifu don't want me to learn it. He said it is pretty much useless.

Since, you are not on the ground to kick on somebody most of the time. That is no way you can use everything on every set.

[Yum Cha]

Please tell us about Lee Kwok Pui and Pak Mei in London.

I know of one UK Pak Mei sifu, long silver hair and beard, twinkeling eyes. Not a thin man. I have seen him on video from Guangzhou.

I believe there are 2 or 3 Pak Mei sifus in London, is that true?

Day Sut - I will half agree with your sifu. There are some parts that are rather acrobatic and very difficult to execute for their limited advantage, but there are also many techniques that are very useful, that only appear in that pattern. It has the most kicking of all the patterns, if you like kicking. I have come to really like that pattern, granted, my execution is somewhat "laboured" <grin>.

[Pak Mei student]

Originally posted by sanjia
Pakmeistudent :You should! He is famous even in Pak mei circle.

Yeah Ok , right, lets see now, a person with no name, no profile, no address and no information tells people here that they should somehow know a famous person.
Now this person may or may not be 'famous' in Pak Mei circles, in London.
I will ask the question.

This is me:
Mark Standley
Address in profile
Pak Mei student under N.Stray/Lee Kwong Wong taught by H.B.Un and Chow Fook both taught by Cheung Lai Chuen

Who are you?

I guess you are trying to prove how good you are.

"Pak Mei student under N.Stray/Lee Kwong Wong taught by H.B.Un and Chow Fook both taught by Cheung Lai Chuen."

I see. You are trying to say "my lineage is pure.
I am qualify to judge. "

I keep my mouth silence, is that mean i don't know anything?
I don't announce my lineage. Is that mean I don't know anything?

Why should I prove it to your liking?

[fiercest tiger]

Well i dont know about you guys but this form has sticky leg drills, take downs and throws that will spin your head around!

There are many kicking techniques designed to counter kickers also.

Ask yourself why would CLC have taught this form for, again please dont say money!!:rolleyes:

ill try and put some mpegs on my site when i get a chance using this set.


take it easy
FT:)

[dezhen2001]

PakMei Student: I don't actually train in PM right now, but am very interested in learning. To do this i will have to find a good Sifu, which is why i asked those questions. I thought that maybe if i can find out a little about lineage etc. it will help me...

Also, before you said: He fought with Bruce Lee in Lee's family kung Fu association This is an interesting thing! How come it is not known to ther outside like the fight BL had with Wong Jak Man? What exactly happened? (sorry, i'm a bit of a bruce lee fan :p) Is that why he is famous in London's Chinatown? I have been in touch with a few Sifu and they have never mentioned the name before, that's all. Can you explain a bit more about him?

Sanjia: thanks for your help before.

thanks :)
david

[CLOUD ONE]

It seems PMS there are more than one Pak Mei circle?

Can I ask if you are Hakka?

[dezhen2001]

me, no i'm not :p Why?

david

[BIU JI]

I certainly wouldn't say this form is useless, difficult yes but far from useless. You may just end up on the ground some time and wish you had learnt something to deal with it.;)

[Pak Mei student]

Mark S.
"
But you don't keep 'silent' do you? What are your posts if that is the case? You are telling me (amongst others) who is who, I am simply asking more questions regarding your 'information'. "

Eventhough, you want to know. Have you ever learn basic manner? Which is the basic of Chinese culture and martial arts?
Moreover, you are living in Britain. Manner is the basic culture in British Society. Are u a farmer or something?

I guess your job, is to irritate people for pleasure. You wouldn't dare to do it in front of people.

Amongst the card, the name is LEE GOT PUI.
He is also on the card page as well.


"It seems PMS there are more than one Pak Mei circle?" by cloud


"a student of H.B UN vs a student of LI GOT PUI.hahahahaha
i know the out come of this.

pms you little bully,but then again he's been asking for a ass kicking.
"
Excuse me, I didn't say a word.

"
also i know your not hakka because of language?

lineage?whiter that white?darker than dark? pure isn't the answer........diy low "

ngi magai vuei?gam umgam gwong?ahhh ngiar gung fu gik ho

"

What now? I need to approval from you.
What about?
"Di li lo ma"


Sui Fuw
All I can say is you are a childish person. I think you are around 10 or something. Grow up little boy. ;-)


I don't want to waste my life, to debate with you guys. And I was not making any bad comments whatsoever to other pak mei school. Please do understand, I am dealing with three childish person here.

[Pak Mei student]

Certainly in the future, I don't think I wouldn't bother debating with you guys. You guys behave so childishly.

Mark. S. pretend he knows something by kicking my **s. Which I didn't do anything offend him.

Mr. Cloud one joins his friend for some action. He is one of the follower. He loves to bring sadness into other people for fun.

Sui Fiew is like a 10 year old boy. I wonder when you will graduate. By the way, I am a post graduate university student. A mature student never speak like you. I guess you wouldn't dare to do it in front of people. It is the internet afterall. you are just little mouse, who can speak in the internet. Who wouldn't dare to offend people in front of their face!!
You probably work in MacDonald rest of your life.

By the way, why are u coming across between me and mark?
It is none of your business! Are u having joy of doing this? By fueling the anger between people.

[mono68]

San Jia , Cloud, Sui fuw:

I see all three of you have being trying to get info from this individual. Do not waste time in this person PMS. Because as his initial read he is like menstrual cramps, he comes and goes.

PMS: if you mention things be polite in offering more details not ignorant excuses like and old woman.

Everyone on these threads good or bad are here to share knowledge. In other posts you make enemies I guess you love to be the antagonist.

I comment these three martial brothers for uniting in putting PMS in place. Hat off to you three.

P.S. PMS for a university graduate you really act like a ignoramus.

[fiercest tiger]

li got pui's pak mei is one of the best ive heard, he is clc's god son or something right?

remember the tea house and the staff story with the flies? li gar master was li got pui's father i was told.

he is same level as cheung bing fat i think?:)

later
FT:)

[Yum Cha]

So we have established that HB Un and Li Got Pui, both of the same generation (? yes) have students in London.

Is HB Un still walking this earth?

Is Li Got Pui the venerable "UK Sifu" I see in all these banquet videos from HK and Guangzhou? This guy has an abundance of long white hair, and a wispy beard?

Pak Mei Student - How good is your Kung fu?

[Pak Mei student]

Sui Fiew,

Think of it. I should respect you more.
You are creator of new chinese hakka writing.

Which you are chinese America or Australia. Who doesn't read chinese or write chinese. Which you don't even know how to write chinese english. Which you dont even know where is all the hakka lives.Which you don't even know the history of china.

You call your self chinese hakka?!!

I wonder when your new language will be published all over the world.

I am curious, because I have so much fun listen to your new chinese hakka language writing. :D

[Pak Mei student]

a

[CLOUD ONE]

Silence is golden.

You get a stiffy every time sui comes on.

What is your problem no Hakka sifu wants to have you as a student.

Sui is Hakka but you are not that is for sure!!!!

Ask Li Got pui this- How do you write ''f*ck your mother'' in English chinese?

[fiercest tiger]

:eek:

[Pak Mei student]

"
[B]Silence is golden.

Wow. Your words is like gold. Your words carry some weights?
How much? One gram!

Now, you are philospher. Another day, you are brash person. One thing, I am learning to become like you guys, picking on some guy who doesn't know anything. Show disrespect to elders! Just like the western teenagers, being very brash, and disrespect elders, fathers, brothers , teachers and seniors.

Since, the stress of work, I find it this is a part of my amusement. I have fun doing it. To pick on you four guys!!
At the same time, I am learning the art of debating. I really have to thank you for giving me this opportunity.
( I want to be a good businessman someday. I have to counter all the unwanted name calling.)

Cloud one , sue fiew, mono and San
You guys are truely a martial art keyboard warriors. I should learn from you guys. You guys are great.

"You get a stiffy every time sui comes on. "

"Sui is Hakka but you are not that is for sure!!!!"


This is funny! I can read both chinese and english. I can write both chinese and english. Sue fiew cannot read chinese. Sue fiew can't write chinese. He is a hakka and I am not.

I can see the logic for you guys.
I trust who I want to believe, not what the facts are.

"Ask Li Got pui this- How do you write ''f*ck your mother'' in English chinese? "

This is funnier. You are only good and bold in the internet.
Can do it in front of him? Will you?
please don't make me laugh you little mouse!
Cloud keyboard warriors! play with your Barbies.

I was very silent at the very beginning, until this little mouse called Mark S. come along.

He is afraid now!!

Go ahead. Mr. Mark S. show your lineage. Reveal your more information. Who is n. stray? Who is what?

[Pak Mei student]

a?

[Pak Mei student]

Yum cha.

I am not very good at my martial arts. I thought I can learn something from this forum. I guess I was wrong.

I truely respect you. I see your lineage. You lineage is under australia.

[sanjia]

PMS : I was very silent at the very beginning, until this little mouse called Mark S. come along.
He is afraid now!!
Go ahead. Mr. Mark S. show your lineage. Reveal your more information. Who is n. stray? Who is what?

squeak

Happy now?

[Pak Mei student]

Originally posted by sanjia
PMS : I was very silent at the very beginning, until this little mouse called Mark S. come along.
He is afraid now!!
Go ahead. Mr. Mark S. show your lineage. Reveal your more information. Who is n. stray? Who is what?

squeak

Happy now?

I take it as your apology.

I apologize to you as well.



You should watch who you are talking next time. I am a nice person. If you talk to someone else inside of pak mei, who is member. He makes sure his friends pay you a "visit". These people never forgives and forgets.

I respect you as a decent person. Who just want little bit free in the internet!

We are have BS at times.

[Buby]

Chupa te esa, en lo que te mandan la otra.

buby

[fiercest tiger]

are you saying this guys is shaolin master?

pak mei student,

not all english / gwalo disrespect their elders..so please dont bring race into this. i have nothing against you, i think what you said was wrong.

later:(
FT

[LiLong]

In Li Lung Bai Mei, there are thirteen empty had forms which include one hung gar form (Lau Gar) and our version of SLT from the WC system. LLBM is a mix of Chen taijiquan with Bai Mei, hung gar and WC. Approx. 150-200yrs old. There are three weapons required (staff, spear, butterfly swords). To be a sifu you need to know 38. Some of the forms are:

Chen
Chen Kun
SLT
5-step
Chen Tsu
Chen Mao
Lau Gar
Flexing tiger
Siu Lien

these are just some of the ones i have learned, still learning or heard about and not actually seen performed.
Cheers!!:D

[Yum Cha]

Hello, thanks for your kind words about my lineage. I haven't met any other Gunagzhou Pak Mei on-line yet. I suspect most of the Pak Mei players have never heard of our branch, but are too polite to say so.

Do tell me about this Sifu in the UK, Li Got Pui, if you're inclined .

Sui Fuw, you seem to know about him, you mentioned the closing of the schools in Kwoloon again. He sounds like he was a fearsome fighter. Was it Ginger Fist that chased your a$$ all over the forum for that one? Sounds like there's a good story here...

I'm dying to know if this is the Sifu from the UK I've seen pictures of before.

We poor isolated antipodeans love to hear stories from the North.

[gwendolyn]

Where do you study in Tampa? Im looking for teacher in Tampa/St Pete!:D

[Shaolin Master]

[I do not post much anymore, so don't even start BS.] :mad:

So, little Hakka Suoi Jai, do not assume. :(

FT, you should know better.

Buby, no seas boludo! tienes que practicar mas y dejar las estupidedes. Me imaginadria que debes haber crecido ya! Verdaderamente este idiota no tiene nada cuever con migo. :mad: (yo no juego esta tonteria mas)

PMS,
There is no "absolute" correct way of writing english chinese. Anyone can be anything hakka, guailou who cares. Also to be bothered by such anomality shows a lack of confidence, to respond yet claim to ignore is only hypocrisy.

Cheers everyone,
keep training and living life. :)

[CLOUD ONE]

What does 'Di li lo ma' mean?

Li Got Pui teach you that one.

If you don't know how to read or write English/Chinese does that mean you cannot be Hakka?

What is your problem with us?

Maybe you want to 'lapp siew'?

Is your sifu Mike?

[fiercest tiger]

Lets not open a bottle of worms here, but you have done this before havent you?:rolleyes:

also who knows these days what people are doing!!:)

[sanjia]

sui fuw : everybody has worked it out"yum cha,cloud,f.t,mono but not sanjai he's been put on the back foot,still picking up his teeth.lol
care to spill anymore cr@p????hahahaha fool

Yep. Tiger stands his ground. Hows that for cr@p?

oh,btw.if i didn't know any better,your most likely tobe once called "shaolin master" care to deny this?????

Yes, my name is Mark, and I live in England.

rocked not once but twice
by your non english/chinese freind.lol byeeeee

So in essence ......I rock.

Mark

[sanjia]

sui fuw ; i guess you couldn't help but be put in your place again

I wouldn't want to deprive you of your calling.

sui fuw : your "stupid as a stupid does"

Stupid as a stupid what does? Please use correct grammar and english if you are going to insult me.

sui fuw : you "rock" like a pu$$y in a craddle if you want to join in????

Here you go again. What on earth does that mean? What is a 'craddle'? Are you trying to say that I move back and forth like a cat in a cradle? Why would a cat be in a cradle? I've never seen cats moving about in cradles, what are you talking about?
If I want to join what? Why would I want to join a cat in a cradle? You are very strange.

sui fuw : you feel no sense,of where this going san,all you can do is wish a pretty dream...........then the nightmare starts?lol

Where is what going? If I were to 'wish' a dream how could a nightmare start? You see if I 'wish' a dream, it means that I am imagining a dream that I would like to have, and thus so far during this wish, there is no dream and consequently no nightmare.

There I feel better now.

[BIU JI]

You say you haven't mey anyone who does Gwonzhou Pakmei yet.

Isn't YKM still called Pakmei in Gwonzhou and your lineage goes back to Ha Ho Hong like YKM ! I would say you already have met others from Gwonzhou Pakmei:D

I'm splitting hairs I know but couldn't resist !;)

[BIU JI]

Ngoh ji ngoh hai suoi gwai ah:D :D

[Buby]

ShaolinMaster - Was I talking to you?

I'll tell you one thing that I find funny is, how your reply to Sui and others, had a sad face, but I get an angry face(like it's gonna scare me...PLEASE). Why? Is it because they are advanced level KF stylists and I'm just a beginner in KF(learning via vid. correspondence at that).

Since you think I was talking to you and since you think you can talk to me as you wish... I tell you what ... I should be in OZ, around December ... When I get out there I'll drop by your school and you can tell me to my face and we can just handle ours.

And Btw, I haven't forgotten the bullsh!t you spoke about YKM.

Buby

[feldor]

Don't let SM get under your skin. We know what we have in YKM and a lot of others don't. Their loss.......

Could be interesting though, I hope to be in Oz in Dec. also. Maybe we could visit him together.........:D

Sui Fuw,

Keep that pot stirring! :D :D

FT:
Sifu, I'll look for you later on MSN, zI may FINALLY have time tonight.:rolleyes:

[fiercest tiger]

Hehehehe! hook line and sinker....yum cha loves saying we have nothing to do with them.:D

yum ch and i have spoken about this many times, but no need to talk any more about it. :D oh yummy ill send a copy of that form to you email me your addy ok.

cya
FT:D

[LiLong]

gwendolyn,

we train in Town & Country. U can contact Sigung James Whitney jr. directly. drop me an e-mail at macg666@hotmail.com and I will give you the info to contact him. You would be most welcome to come watch classes and even take place in a few to see if the style suits you.

chers:)

[Yum Cha]

Biu Ji

- you little "pot" stirrer. I hope Gazza gives you an extra 10 minutes on stance as punishment for whipping me into a frenzy... Then again, how about some more Been Choi practice...

Our lineage goes back to Guangzhou, not HK. Si Gung Liang Sui Hoy stayed in Guangzhou when Master Har moved away. That is the crutial difference. Time is a factor, as well as the people.

I can assure you most definately, that Pak Mei in Guangzhou is not called Yau Kung Mun, and I will direct you to the pictures on our site if you don't believe me. That was the wish of Master Har.

Now, there may be Yau Kung Mun in Guangzhou, I certainly don't know one way or the other.

Here's where you are right - Guangzhou Pak Mei and Yau Kung Mun are good friends. Cousins with lots in common. Probably more in common than with the latter students of CLC.

The two "cousins" form an interesting statement and point of reference. When you see the styles from the other lineages, it helps extrapolate the evolution of the style under CLC's grand mastery and that of his followers.

Thats why I'm interested in this Sifu Li Got Pui. If he is "well known" in London Chinatown circles, there should be at least a minimum of info to share about him. He would be a significant influence on the UK stylists, no? Already there's the indication that Sifu HB Un isn't the only game in town, so to speak.

Feldor, Buby, FT, SM

- Don't forget to drop by and say hello when you come to town, perhaps we can have a bit of a night out for the lads in Chinatown? Er, after you deal with all your matters of honour, that is...<grin>. Double Dragon Gym, Saturday afternoon?

Garry, thanks for the offer, I'll email you. Whip up on Bui Ji for me.....

[BIU JI]

Hi Yum. I'm not rying to start some flame war but we should be able to discuss our different lineages with the differences as well as the similarities, they ought to complement each other . Yes I was stirring the pot! I haven't been on for awhile thought I'd stir you up abit. As I know this is a tender subject for you, just seems that you don't like the fact the YKM has connections to Gwonzhou Pakmei.
I was asking Sifu about lineages etc between YKM and other Pakmei schools and this is how I see it !
Did you know that 80 % of the schools in Gwonzhou are run by Ha Ho Hung students, the only changes it went through when it went to Hong Kong was the name change and the 1st 3 forms were added from his Hung Kuen style he learnt from a child?

Your lineage from Leung Sui Hoi has added Dragon , don't you think that HHH would have taught his son the original forms unchanged rather than change the forms and teach those versions. Only the 1st 3 forms were not original, why would he do that ? Luk Hap also sorry was supposed to have been added!
Basically we are the same style with different names as our core forms are the same, some sifus add or delete moves depending on how they see the system and what techniques
they prefer.

What did Leung Sui Hoi add to the system after leaving HHH? If CLC is the GM and he modified the system after going to HK then that would suggest that "both" YKM and Gwonzhou Pakmei are obsolete " old version" no?!
Anyway my point is what are the real versions? Who has them? Is Gwonzhou's forms more original , if so how do you really know?


Anyway on a side note Shaolin Mobster- omae honto ni baka yarou nda, kenka ****ai toki ni tada yutte zo ! With love BIU JI !

[Shaolin Master]

Biu Ji,

I don't understand jap.

Buby,

no intention with the smiley faces, I use them without consideration of their meaning.

FT,

It was only once and so have you. This has been resolved and it has never happened again. But almost a year after your still dreaming as such. I've spoken to you personally. Some of your new facts and approaches have pieces of what I told you in the begining, in fact you have probably learned things as well. But you lay no claim to reason. It is impertinent.

--,
You guys need to get a grip. Everything is like oooh....here comes the trolls...then it is oooh must be SM.....then stupid hakka suifuw nerd goes ooooh it is it is and all goes oooh ....must be and then some. I mean I have been accused over and over for every troll and even Suifuw who actually now is your bud in combating the trolls...Time and time again I have explained but you all go on even when I am not even on this silly forum....gosh....

I mean c'mon how ridiculous. It is like some TV soap opera......gees

anyway just talk and share and leave all the melodramatic-BS out of it!!

Whatever is said is taken out of context, just value the info if you don't like it chuck it but do not reprimand for there maybe more that you'll need with no other source to find.

[even this note is likely to be taken out of context]

[crumpet]

Originally posted by BIU JI

Basically we are the same style with different names as our core forms are the same, some sifus add or delete moves depending on how they see the system and what techniques
they prefer.

What did Leung Sui Hoi add to the system after leaving HHH? If CLC is the GM and he modified the system after going to HK then that would suggest that "both" YKM and Gwonzhou Pakmei are obsolete " old version" no?!
Anyway my point is what are the real versions? Who has them? Is Gwonzhou's forms more original , if so how do you really know?


so i'll state the obvious, ykm is a rip off from pak mei. did not hhh learn pak mei before ykm? so obviously the people he taught before learning ykm are guangzhou pak mei. then he teaches ykm (which is apparently an older style) while retaining some pak mei forms... need i say more?

[jon]

:eek: :rolleyes:

Wow this thread has more mud being slung than most and i havent even been posting in it.

Just so i can join in...
Your all a bunch of frauds and your linage is fake!
Yeah and my skill is better than your skill and ive learnt the real kung fu and you havent.
If anyone wants to challenge me ill be hiding behind my sifu and pai :D

[EAZ]

Look, the real point appears to be that though their is a difference between YKM and Guangdong PM, the differences PALE in comparison to the differences between the both of them and later PM HK masters.

I do not know what the complete Guangdong PM system of teaching is, but I can add one thing with all the authority my simple person has: Vietnamese lineage of PM and YKM lineage in Australia have much of the core concepts and ADVANCED concepts in common (I do not know about USA YKM). All of the advanced theory, the big picture, is the same. And yet there has been ABSOLUTELY no contact between our lineages in say 50-70 years.

I suspect that Guangdong school students , also HHH, are in this bag as well, I guess I'll have to investigate some more.

Later PM schools ARE DIFFERENT. I have visited a few of them (4 in total now on 2 continents) and while this is not representative, they all present same characteristics in terms of structure of system Kung Fu.

Did CLC teach HHH, Tang Hué Bac (guy who wen to Viet Nam) and maybe others differently then latter students? I am 90% sure YES.

Whether the ealy students of CLC were all taught incorectly,

Wether there is some other factor we cannot know today (i.e. for example, there was some one else other than CLC in the picture who taught things to these early students, or some other possibility),

Whether CLC taught HHH THB and other early students, all rather formidable people, deliberately erroneously,

Whether he modified his style when he got older and taught later students differently, not better or worse just differently,

This is the REAL ISSUE.

How else to explain:
a. With the exception of Dragon crossing bridge, added at a latter time which our lineage in VN does not have to my knowledge, all forms in VN lineage can be found in other PM schools, bu the reverse is not true.

Take an example of "Figting on ground" form. Many HK PM schools do not have it all HHH and THB students do; there are in fact many forms in VN, (sI am not counting those added in VN), that are not found elsewhere. There are many examples of this.

The real clincher is in the meta structure of PM: what are we aiming for? What is unique/specialised internal principle to be developed in PM? It appears from my analysis, that YKM Australia, VN PM and maybe Guangdong PM understand this.

PM is NOT just TTFC.

So Biu Ji and Yum Cha, stopping throwing sand at eachother in the playground and go after some serious customers: talk about the difference between old and new PM.



(Crumpet: might you try and put a little content in your next message so that we may benefit from your experience in YKM or PM)

[fiercest tiger]

Ha Ha Ha!!

If Yau Kung Mun is a rip off of Bak Mei then what is Bak Mei a rip off of? Yes it is true that Har Hon Hung learnt Bak Mei and was one of CLCs best students. Everyone knows this! He split from CLC for many reasons which we will not talk about. Bui Jee's point was that there is really no difference between Guangzhou Bak Mei and Yau Kung Mun except the name and also the changes that some of the Guangzhou Bak Mei masters have added by adding Dragon style. Yau Kung Mun forms of the the Bak Mei are still the same as they were from father to son (Ha Kwok Cheung).

When Yau Kung Mun went to Hong Kong extra forms were added with a flavor of Hung Kuen and Bak Mei. That is the only difference! Did you know that Har Hon Hung was taught by a monk named Tiat Yun? He was taught a very advanced internal system that has been kept secret until the last twent years. Only a handful of people know this system. Maybe you should check up on your histories behind an art before shooting your mouth off because I don't think that you have any idea of the Yau Kung Mun system or its history and connection to Bak Mei Pai.

Shaolin Master,

Yes I have been convicted of this in the past and I have spoken to you recently, although I don't know why you have spoken to Buby like this. You like to stir up trouble sometimes; thats all good as long as it is in good humor. We all do this but some people don't take things so easy and matters can get out of hand. I cannot control my student's actions if you **** them off enough. I don't have anything against you but those are the rules of the internet game here on Kfo.

Jon,


:p

[BIU JI]

This is my point exactly, I was really just trying to bring attention to that and the pointlessnss of arguing who has the more original blah blah.


Crumple- well we just know now exactly what you don't know , just another example of uninformed git like yourself who think they suddenly have some real insight to YKM. So come on i'd like to know how much you really know and how! Be my guest and put it all here for us all to read .Otherwise moron on your bus !




:(

[Buby]

How's everything bro?

"i may meet you in oz." - Fncking awesome! Don't play with my emotions, bro.:D I hope to see you there.

Hey bro, you play baseball? Whats you batting average like? Are you a home run hitter or consistant hitter?


Sifu,
I'll be calling you tonight. I've got a ? on Ba Bo gung si, sup chi ending and few other things. I know..I know..So whats new.:D I'll try to take it easy on your brain. I promise.:D

Take care,
Buby

[strangecaptain]

"PM is NOT just TTFC"

What is "TTFC"? Thanks.

[fiercest tiger]

Those D@mn dirty apes are everywhere!

Bow down!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[BIU JI]

Crummy- don't be upset I still love ya to death lol !:eek:

[fiercest tiger]

My batting average is every night not bad i could be better!!

now bow down to the head!!!:eek:

[Yum Cha]

Nothing like the smell of blood to drive the natives crazy....

Gee, I thought that was an open ended and general enough statement I made to leave room for everybody's opinion.

How same does same have to be not to be different? I don't know all the storys, only the stories told by the hands of my brothers.

All these issues of "authenticity" or "originality" are totally irrelevant, at least to me. I know what I have been taught, and I am lucky to have learned from two such accomplished Sifus. Likewise I am lucky to have so many brothers around to train and discover the art with.

EAZ, thank you for your reminder that the Vietnamese lineage is our other cousin, and your insightful comments.

Sui Fuw, watch out for my Har Gau and Fung Jao. I've learned Bo Li...

A dance? Let me buy you a drink first... I'm an old fashioned kinda guy.

[fiercest tiger]

Correct, it doesnt and shouldnt matter at all who has what as long as you are happy with what you are learning!

cya soon
FT

[Third Degree]

Originally posted by strangecaptain
"PM is NOT just TTFC"

What is "TTFC"? Thanks.


TTFC is to do with Swallow (Tun), Spit (Till), Float (Fwill) and Sink (Chim) body actions that are prominent in Pak Mei.

Those are the Hakka phonetic spellings anyway. Think in Cantonese it is Tun, Toh, Fao and Chum.

Sui-Fuw - in those challenge matches people back in Hong Kong got into, what is the rule? Is it one hit and then the person who got hit concedes and closes his school or is it a "lets fight untll one of us is knocked down for a few minutes/hours" type fight?

Pak Mei Student - from what I have been told, Li Got Pui didn't have a fight with Bruce Lee . Bruce Lee just asked Li Got Pui to teach him how to kick properly. What is the exact story you have heard Pak Mei Student?

[feldor]

5 Card Stud or Chicago? Where's that head nurse?????:D

[fiercest tiger]

hahahahaha lololo man you crack me up!

BOW YOUR HEADS!

guys the apes are in town!:eek:

sui fuw,
ive also run outta chimps i mean chips..can i get some also?:eek:

gotta go the head is here!!

[tnwingtsun]

From what I've seen you already have absorbed skills in both theory and pratice,keep working,it will all fall into place.


Don't worry if you don't know the Chinese names,chances are,you have enough if not more than most people here on
Bai Mei.

I'm glad to see some have a sence of humor least this not turn into a SPM or a WC-WT-VC war.

Plz see few,tell me the Bai Mei tongs are gonna visit me at night for speaking out,
man,that would really crack me up.ROTFLMAO!!!

No disrespect to the real, but are you really the "Made man" to do the stand -up? lol!

To the funny pic takers to the North,I've seen the old pics and I've seen the new,how much did you pay to take the new???????


Let the flames begain

[BIU JI]

I'm up on those chumps , ahh sorry chimps chips **** !:D

AND I don't cheat,,,,,,,,,,,much hehe!! Don't sit next to sui , he'll make you bet high then take the lot lol !
;)

[sanjia]

tnwingtsun : Let the flames begin


Well, all I'll say is whats this about shooting down limeys in spitfires? :-)
I'm too scared to say anything else.

[sanjia]

Me "anything else".

[tnwingtsun]

I've helped build and restore WW2 Aircraft in the past (German 109Gs) and my friends are working on ME262s and a FW190A-8 found in Norway.


I love to fly and have passion for WW2 fighters.

I love the Spit,but because I can't get around to dogfighting them for real(we are planning a get together in the future) the guys over in your country who restore and build Spits
compete with us in a VERY realist flight sim.

Great bunch of guys,never,never get into a turn fight with a Spitfire unless you are good at rolling over the top. :)

[BIU JI]

What's my name b!tch ? :D