Why are the forms in Chinese Martial Arts so Long

[FIRE HAWK]

Why are the forms in Chinese Martial Arts so long even in southern styles like Wing Chun and Southern Mantis the forms are so long when i look through my Wing Chun and Southern Mantis books the forms are so long ? How could anybody possibally use all these things in the forms in a street fight ? Or do you pick out what you need from the forms to use in a confrontation in the sreet or whatever the situation is ? Then there is the principals and concepts that you must apply what if you dont have the time to apply the principals and concepts to the street fight or the situation that you are in such as what kind of fist you might use for the situation ?

[yutyeesam]

This is a question I've wondered about myself. I think a lot of it has to do with conditioning the body, and to practice basic positioning. And some movments have no purpose except to serve as a balance or counter-balance mechanism...and there are those that are stylized versions of what the thing looks like in real application.

What I don't get is why many of these Southern forms (w/the exception of Ving Tsun) are predominantly right handed? In the Siu Mui Fah that I learned, there is a small section where we do things on the left, but it doesn't last very long.

Are there any CLF folks who have forms where the focus is on the left side is the dominant?

123

[David Jamieson]

Just work it! hahahaha.

They're long because they contain a lot of information.
It exposes the pratcitioner to the idea of practicing a larger amount of techniques as opposed to the same combo over and over again which makes for some pretty dry training.

They also show how combonations become continuous because of their mutual inclusion to a single set.

Sets also cover techniques for different ranges.
1 set is short range, another is medium, another focuses on kicks while yet another focuses on sweeps etc.

It is always up to you as a student to extrapolate technique and apply it as you learned it from the form.

By extrapolation, we are allowed to explore various techs from the same system.
We get to do and see all the techs and we also get to pick those that work really well for us as individuals and focus on them.

Over time, the library of extrapolated material grows. Eventually you are proficient in all the techs within your sets. And you have learned a martial arts style or system.

Beats a couple of one twos or short short forms that may or may not have techs you are comfortable and confident using.

Enjoy the fact you are not practicing an "abridged" edition of martial arts. No offence non-cma'ers :)

peace

peace

[ZhouJiaQuan]

hung fut i think is a left handed system. So a search for it or Tai Yim(he is GM of the system)

peace

[mantis-1]

As far as I can remember SPM forms especially Chow Gar the forms are renowned for being short the only exception is the Buddhist hands form and the always/continuously hitting hands form, these are considered the longest of our forms. As for using them for fighting you don’t use the forms to fight not even the two man fighting forms. Basically each form teaches you something different dim mak points for example (dim mak points found in the first form are not found in the second form for instance-maybe same moves but different emphasis on striking) also the forms tell you what to do eg. Strike someone in the stomach they double over therefore the head comes down the form tells you this in the position of the next move in the form. The emphasis on the right tells us something else that the techniques work better to the right side of the body rather than the left (this is not to say it doesn’t work on the left just better on the right, also on the right side where your opponents heart is are certain pressure points can’t quiet remember what they are called but I think they correspond to the seasons.) This is the reason that they are practiced more on the right than on the left, but in training with a partner in the jongs you train both sides. Anyway this is what I have picked but in my training anyway.

[Fu-Pow]

Great question.

I think intially there is a bias in begginner forms to use the left hand for blocking and the right for striking. This is simply because more people are right handed. It is easier to learn the basic techniques this way.

In my branch of CLF as we progress in the forms the "opposite" version of the same technique appears in the form . The more the advanced the form the more ambidextrous it becomes, utilizing left and right equally.

I've noticed the same bias in my Taiji forms.

As to the length. I think that length is designed to train your endurance and concentration.Forms like Sup Ji Kow Dah really test your "wind." If you can make it through that form with out breathing heavy than it is a good indicator of your cardiovascular condition. Forms also serve as a sort of encyclopedia of moves and combinations. So people have kept adding on to them as they create new techniques.

[joedoe]

Don't quote me on this because I could be completely wrong, but I think historically it was considered 'bad' to be left-handed.

Having said that, Ngor Chor has a left-handed pole set.

[red_fists]

Fu_Pow

Take this with a pinch of salt.

I know that some TCC styles have what looks pre-dominately a right-hand form. But some styles first train the form right-handed and than left-handed.

One of my Friends that does Yang Kwang Ping told me that they do it like that.

My style has most movements on both sides in our Forms.

One of the other reasons could be that some MA of old used to carry a small shield attached to the left fore-arm for blocking and protection and thus that arm was less utilised.

It also depends on the environment that the style was desgiend for (in-doors, in groups, etc.)

The thing about disliking left-handidness is also partially true and is not only confined to China and/or Asia, but also many EuropeansCountries until the 1950's forced right-handidness.

My Mother being one of them.

[Fu-Pow]

Red fists-

I'm not sure about your Taiji forms but the begginning form in my style definitely favors the right side. Not to say that the left is totally ignored but most of the striking techniques are done with the right hand.

Interesting point about the shield, I hadn't thought of that. Of course it would make more sense for weapons sets than hand sets.

[red_fists]

Fu-pow.

If you look at a single form in the system I study it also appears to favor one side more than the other.

But if you look at all the forms you will see the balance.

Ex.:
2nd form Cloud Hands (right)
3rd form Cloud Hands (left)

One the other hand doing a form "reversed" is also great fun and you can learn a lot from it.

[guohuen]

Sinister comes from the Latin sinistra or left handed.

[CLFNole]

Traditionally choy lay fut is a right-hand dominant style. The traditional fighting stance was with the body turned slightlf and the right hand extended out somewhat with the left hand covering the body.

The theory behind it is to keep the heart away from your oppenent and to attack him at a variety of angles.

Peace

[Tigerlilly]

Wow interesting thread...especially because I'm a left-handed fighter(yeeess an eeevil no "sinister" red headed one ;)) I study hung ga fu jow pai and hark fu moon all have incredibly long forms I was told that the hung ga especially has a lot of chi gung incorporated. It's also supposed to challenge your mind to know and remember all those moves. Fire hawk I can't imagine using some of these moves in forms for the street, they wouldn't be effective...like Jackie chan vs. Tank

[David Jamieson]

Just want to add that in the southern style I was taught there was no right hand left hand dominance at all.

Every technique was done right and left handed, right and left kick.

The weapons were different of course, but the hand sets put equal emphasis on techniques developed for both sides thereby giving balance.


peace

[Andrew]

Personally forms are predominantly right handed, because as
someone said earlier people are predominantly right handed,
and initally it makes more sense to train your strongest side
and as was mentioned as you learn more and more, you will
find that the forms start to use both sides. At the end of the
day if you are left handed, as I am you should train your
strongest side.

Andrew