A question on stance

[red5angel]

This make more sense for someon who studies under Leung Sheung lineage or Kenneth chungs WC.

How low doe sthe stance go? I go pretty low but I get to a point where it doesnt feel all that stable anymore, is this just because I am fairly new? Does it get steadier and deeper as I go along?

[azwingchun]

I have seen some styles who are more upright then others then again I have seen some who seem to go kinda deep. I blieve the stance should be with natural tension or spring. If you stand straight up with feet at shoulder length apart and sink in your stance until you feel that natural tension (spring) in the knees you are low enough. This is assuming you are talking about ST stance. Again I have seen various ways of doing this stance some even with feet beyond the width of the shoulders, so this in just how I perform the stance. I believe if you go below this that it puts undo strain on the knees, and changes your balance structure-due to the knees now sticking out beyond your feet.;)

[reneritchie]

Classically you open toe out, toe in, then sink your posture until your knees are roughly one-fist distance apart.

That being said, many nowadays do it higher, wider, and maybe even some narrower and lower. IMHO, it depends on your whole system approach, and what ends up working best for you in the end (after years of training let you make an informed judgement on that).

Rgds,

RR

[red5angel]

RR - Would you happen to know if Kenneth Chungs stance is different from the Classic Yip Man stance? I am not trying to start a lineage war here! Just curious.

[kj]

This make more sense for someon who studies under Leung Sheung lineage or Kenneth chungs WC.

Offering this per your specific request, and in case it may be of any help to you ...


How low doe sthe stance go? I go pretty low but I get to a point where it doesnt feel all that stable anymore, is this just because I am fairly new? Does it get steadier and deeper as I go along?

Are you are at familiar with our five major stance checkpoints?


Knees in
Sink in the stance
Tuck/roll the hips under and forward
Straighten/elongate the spine
Elbows (and shoulders) down


Development of a good stance requires all the elements together, as well as plenty of time to develop, and forms the foundation of our kungfu. If an element is lacking or faulty, the stance and training of it will suffer. I mention this just to be clear that sinking the stance alone is not enough. IMHO, there is much more detail in actual practice, but these 5 elements provide the initial framework.

Of course no one can correct your stance over the internet. Not even me. :p The only reasonable way to have the stance properly corrected is in person by someone experienced and competent. I don't know if you have met Ken before, but I highly recommend to ask him personally to correct your stance if the opportunity arises.

Meantime, here are a few additional guidelines in case they may be of help. Individuals vary too much for me to consider these as hard and fast "rules." However, they do seem to get most people in the ball-park, so to speak:


Feet approximately shoulder-width distance apart.
Because of the adduction/hip rotation of the pigeon-toed stance, the knees are brought closer together through the action of sinking.
In your lowest training stance, your knees should be approximately 1 fist distance apart. That means you will be sinking pretty low. ;)
Do not "force" the knees in; there is a small inward "intention" sufficient to hold an empty water bottle or styrofoam cup without crushing it. Just enough to keep your knees aligned with feet, and properly positioned. Do not over-force the knees inward or you may damage them instead of building them up. Instead, make corrections by turning the feet more inward and/or sinking more. The "knees in" feeling is just a touch, and not too much.
With the hips tucked and spine elongated, your butt should not be sticking out, and the curve in your lower back should be minimized, but not straight or stiff as a board.
Over time (lots of time!! lots of practice!!) your knees should stop shaking so much, and eventually build enough capacity to support you without compensating through upper and lower body tension to ease the load. You should also find that, later on, you do not have to sink so much throughout all of your training all the time (e.g., in chi sau), yet your stance will remain structurally sound. However, the type of low, rigorous stance training that we do should build and optimize the deeper stance capacity so it will be available when needed.


If you are studying under Ken or someone else in the Leung Sheung line, then you should have had at least some introduction to the stance. Hopefully my post makes a little bit of sense within that framework. I also hope this may provide a little validation of your current work, or at least food for thought till you have the next opportunity for personalized corrections.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[reneritchie]

red5angel,

The guidelines KJ provided are almost identical to what I learned in Sum Nung WCK, and almost identical to how other major branches in China do their sets (some elderly masters can no longer sink that low, but many still stress it in their students).

Leung Sheung lineage in general, including Ken Chung sifu, are the closest I've seen to the Foshan methods from the HK students of Yip Man sifu.

Rgds,

RR

[Roy D. Anthony]

One thing to consider however is that One fist apart at the knees, may make moving a little difficult. It is stated that when properly done(no offense intended here) the Knees should be directly under your iliac. then it is in the perfect position for mobility and stability. Hope this Helps!!!