Sensitivity in Bak Mei

[wckf]

There seems to be so much dicussion on Bak Mei forms but almost nothing on training for sensitivity. I personally think chi sao is one of the best methods of training for fights in and out of the ring since it teaches one to create opportunities with whatever your opponent gives you.

I will admit that from the demonstrations of BM guys doing their forms the power and fluid movements are evident but I wonder with that kind of power and speed can sensitivity be applied at all.
How do you BM guys train for sensitivity if at all?

[tnwingtsun]

Of course it has sticky hands training,its just not in the spotlight like the chi sao of Wingtsun/WC/VT is,Bai Mai,at least the system I learned focused on developing explosive force before getting into the "chi sau",ah,but its there,you just have to dig(and train).They are both very efective

[kull]

Yes bak mei has chi sau type training, but little different than wingchun chi sao.

Chi sao is good for train sensitivity, reaction and feeling. But i don't hink chi sao can be substitute to fighting.

In real fight it is unlike chi sao training. Real combat is much more dynamic. Bai Mei student are taught to fight constantly, that is only way to be good at fighting.

Chi sao exercise 2 ppl. stand equal distance apart and try to penetrate other defense, attack,...etc. But in real fight distance will not be same all time, it will change constantly. Person will not also cross hands with u to allow u to feel; like English Fencing sport. No one will constantly leave their "bridge" out to allow u to cross it. They will kick and try to rush and overwhelm you or even try to run away, then come back and attack.

[This message was edited by kull on 02-24-01 at 02:45 PM.]

[tnwingtsun]

Let me adjust that a little Kull,the chi sau you are reffering to by staying equal distance away is not "chi sau",what what most people see is "Pun Sau","Dan Sau" being one arm,in pun sau you stay equal distance apart,Real chi sau the distances change and the partners are not that limited to just stay in front of one another,this will often turn into Lat Sau,now the legs and the whole body come into play,that is one differance between the Wingtsun groups and others,Chi Sau is very dynamic,if he doesent give you a bridge to cross he gets hit,provided he doesen't run away(STICK).If he rushes he gets hit.Wingtsun is also trained to fight non stop,we NEVER back step,We train only to go left,right or foward.I have heard the Bai Mai sticky hands reffered to as "Mor Sau",I'm a child of both systems,they are both very good,F-15s a great plane,F-16s also great,they both kick ass.....peace

[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-24-01 at 04:56 PM.]

[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 02-24-01 at 04:59 PM.]

[fiercest tiger]

in ykm we have many sensitvity exercises, single double, cross hands. circular, horizontal, linear, types, as well as trapping. once everyone can feel each others bridge properly then they can start sparring while at this exercise. kicking, grappling, are chucked in at different leaves and its full on no gloves. a full head helmut and chest pad, it teaches you to stick or move and some of those hits get through thats for sure.
i beleive it teaches you some knowledge for fighting, all kung fu is useless if you have no mindset. :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[sui-fuw]

wing chun ti-sau in the west is static{they stand still,just arms}yip mans is the whole,body,mind and spirit.
pak-mei in hak-ka uses lap-sui{lap-sau}much similar to yip mans.

these methods are only practise,when in the level of san-sui,during sipp bat mor.

[wckf]

tnwingtsun, you obviously have a good grasp of chi sao in general and in particular wing chun.

I wanted to asked how BM can develop sensitivity when BM moves are done with fast, explosive power.
Or is BM chi sao like wing chun where the players roll hands at moderate speed and try to feel the other's pressure and then attack when opening is sensed.

Could you describe the kind of chi sao that is done in BM. I am very curious.

[Kevin Barkman]

From what I understand, Bak Mei is not performed at high speeds and power at the beginning. In fact, this will only ingrain bad habits (specifically substituting "lik" power for the shock power you are trying to develop).

At the begining, Jek Bo is trained for correct form / posture and understanding of Tun To Fao Chum. Once the dynamics of this exercise are felt, then you move on. Only later do you return and start putting in the sharp power. Too easy to develop bad habits. Bak Mei and Lung Ying are internal styles, which emphasize "soft" power.

Sensitivity wise, I feel that any push-hand or chi-sao exercise you can incorporate will be beneficial, provided you keep your style's principles in mind. At the beginning, very mechanical type movements should be used to ingrain certain feelings. Later, more "innate" movement (e.g. freestyle chi-sao) should be emphasized.

One of the Sifu's in my school feels very strongly that Chi Sao is not widely understood and correctly practiced. This is not a "go in and whack the guy" exercise, but a very useful tool to develop sticking power and sensitivity (ride the wind).

Anyway....bye bye for now.