What's This Do?

[Alpha Dog]

Have you been dutifully practicing your Wing Chun forms without a clear idea as to what "this move"or "that move" is for? Post your questions here -- many some kind, advanced students of Wing Chun can shed some light on the matter for you.

[fa_jing]

Sh.it. I just ran through SLT and CK in my head, I can't think of a single move that I don't understand! Too bad for the discussion.

-FJ :)

[red5angel]

Actually, I would love to hear a useful, well thought out, and well explained answer to the freeing arm movement in the final part of SLT! Also, what is its chinese name?

[TjD]

well its a "freeing arm" :)

have someong grab your forearm and do the motion

it should free your arm


peace
trav

[reneritchie]

Hi,

We don't do that move in the version I learned, but it is called Tut Sao (Freeing Arm) and the usual explination I've seen is cleave the center and free a grasped arm by impacting the grasper's hand (usually between the thumb and forefinger).

Since this occupies both your arms (leaving the grasper able to punch you in the face while you're trying to free your other hand), and there are other ways for you to free a grasped hand (using spiralling and leverage, combined with attacking with the other hand, or using Fan Kum Na/Counter grabbing), it might be better to look at it as the concept of cleaving the center downward to cover the sternum to dan tien level.

Like I said though, its not in the version I learned, so take that FWIW,

RR

[red5angel]

I can see, through my young WC eyes, a few 'uses for the move, and realize that although you do it with two hands it is probably only meant to be done with one. It seems to me it would be mostly ineffective, but, I will have to go to class tonight and see if my instructor can explain it to me better through example!

[rubthebuddha]

it's not just a freeing hand movement, but also a way to practice your gan sau ;) a little more, especially in relation to your own centerline.

[old jong]

Just wondering what these three moves with closed fingers at the end of S.L.T. are for?.........








Just kidding! :D

[vingtsunstudent]

hey old jong
you do know that more that 3 times & it's considered masterbating.
freeing arm- the reason you can see why it fits so many things is that it is a principle more than a technique, to which there are many in the first form.
but hey, as always, i'm just a pathetic beginner waiting to be enlightened.
vts

[anerlich]

What Rene said about the freeing arm, but the "sweeping" arm's position also has an application in applying BJJ's half nelson lapel choke, which can be done standing as well as on the ground.

TWC teaches applying the traditional "freeing arm" defence against the wrist grab, with a backward step, so that (for a short time anyway) the guy is too far away to punch ... though he is still in kicking range ... hmmm....

[David Peterson]

In WSLWC, the movement you are referring to is known as 'Senk Sau' in HK Cantonese, and 'Shuk Sau' in the Fatsaan dialect from whence it originated, and loosely translates as "scrapping" or "shaving" hand. As far as WSL was concerned, trying to use it to free your hand from a grab was stupid when you could just smash the guy in the face. He taught us three good reasons for practising this action:

1) it trains a "short cut" version of the 'Gaan Sau' action, whereby we learn not to assume that we will always have the ideal hand forward when requiring to deflect an incoming low punch. In other words, if the attack is being done with a right hand, ideally we would have the left hand already forward, and would cut down from that position to intercept it. However, what if we have the right hand forward? We can't ask the guy to wait until we swap sides! This is where we would utilise the "short cut" 'Gaan Sau', cutting straight down and forward with the rear hand.

2) it reminds us (as we alternate between hands) that if one shape/structure is not able to go forward, by modifying the shape we can go forward. For example, we are trying to pierce through our opponent's guard with a 'Taan Sau' movement, but there is too much pressure to do so. By changing into a 'Bong Sau' we can move to one side of the technique, whereas by changing to a 'Jat Sau', we can deflect his/her arm to the other side.

3) it reminds us of a basic, yet incredibly important "golden rule" of combat, that if you are going to remove a hand, you must replace that hand with the other one, lest you leave yourself exposed.

It is important to note that the last two points are emphasised over and over again in both the 'Cham Kiu' and 'Biu Ji' forms, but it is only in 'Siu Nim Tau' that we consider the first point as it is in 'Siu Nim Tau' that the 'Gaan Sau' is first taught. This is by no means an exclusive idea either, as we also do a "long" and "short" version of the 'Taan Sau' technique in the same third section of the form, reminding us that it is important to be able to generate enough force to utilise this technique from any position.
DMP

[Rolling_Hand]

Is your SLT same as Ng Chun Hong Sifu?

WWW.wingchun.hk.com

[Sabu]

Dude... What does my elephant say? Sweet... What does my elephant say? Dude. What does my elephant say? Sweet. What does my elephant say? Dude! What does my elephant say? Sweet! What does my elephant say? DUDE!!!! What does my elephant say? SWEET!!!!

[Rolling_Hand]

Then Pamela Anderson is the answer!!!

And our Yuanfen will be the next Wing Chun grandmaster!?

[anerlich]

David P's excellent answers helped me realise that this movement is like the reverse, or upside down version of the tseun sao/threading arm, except you thread over top rather than come from underneath.

Both are used for passing the opp's arm from one of your hands to the other, to move from an inferior to superior position, e.g. from inside to outside, or to move control from wrist to elbow. Lightly brushing your own arm ensures there are no gaps through which the opp can extricate his arm.

Sabu, you need to stay away from the nitrous oxide bottle.

[Neo]

I have used this movement in the following way:

You are about to throw the opponent using the turning lan sau movement from chum kiu, they grab your lan sau arm with both hands to try to pull you with them to the ground. You apply the tut sau to free your lan sau arm as they descend, and the tut sau action works as a strike to their neck and can then be utilised as a control on their head while you pound with the other hand! or just pound them with both once they are free!

Just sharing an appplication - take it or leave it!