Basic slt questions.

[Mr Punch]

I've had a few answers to some of these, but none of them have made much sense, so I thought I'd try and confuse myself further...!:rolleyes:

1)What are the names (if any) of the movements in the second section... the double downward 'block', the double rear 'strike', the double front 'strike'...?

2)What are the applications of the above?

3)Same section: is it a double jaam sau, and then the double upward bit ('oxjaw') with the wrists... what are these called?

4)And... guessed the pattern yet;) what are they for?

[Ish]

1 sorry don't know the names.
they aren't just blocks and strikes. my understanding is that they are teaching you to only put energy in the last inch or so and that you can use this type of energy in any direction.

2 an aplication of the "double rear strike" could be if someone gets you in a bear hug from behind and you are able to get your hands behind, you can strike them where it hurts.

"and then the double upward bit ('oxjaw') with the wrists... what are these called?"

i'm not sure what part you mean can you describe it a bit more.

hope that helped a little.

[Mr Punch]

Thanks Ish.

The expelling energy in any direction at the last instant is interesting, and one of the explanations I have been given, but surely practising punch, tan, bong, etc, are enough practice for that?

Don't buy the strike against the bear hug either. If you were lucky enough to get your hands behind you you wouldn't be able to strike without raising your elbows slightly and that would leave your arms open for a pin/break... maybe if practised with a turn, this same move can get you out of that pin...?

The end of section 2, in the three schools I've been shown it, finishes with a double biu jee, then a double maybe jaan sau, then a double upward movement with the fingers pointing down, and the wrists exposed upwards, like a mantis or crane hand. Don't know how else to describe it! I've only heard this called an oxjaw in some other styles, but to use an unconditioned wrist in that position for a strike would be madness.

:confused:

[Ish]

I've been told that part of the form is to develop streight arm energy so even when your arms are streight you can still generate a reasonable amount of force.

Im not too sure about the bear hug bit either its just one application i've been shown.

"but surely practising punch, tan, bong, etc, are enough practice for that?"

obviously not

[dezhen2001]

Some people show an application for that section of SLT, but i've always thought it was just so you can get your hands in to the 'withdraw the fists' position (?)

It's said that the second section of SLT is to train how to use the power (Fa Ging). That's why most of the movements use power only at the last instant i guess...

david

[Alpha Dog]

I use the move to hurl pens at my enemy

[Ish]

i find pencils work better cos you can re sharpen them

[sunkuen]

Actually I think pencils are better because you can break them off, Ala Tuhon Chris Sayoc.:D

[sunkuen]

You sly devil!!! ;) ;) ;)

I'll bet you wear a superhero outfit under all those clothes as well.:p

[Alpha Dog]

Sometimes

[Shadowboxer]

Hands at the side, back and front are gum sao's. They align your shoulder socket for differnt bok jarn's. I've heard the rear gum saos are for bear hugs but haven't tried it. We do something different at the moment.
One thing I've seen for the "oxjaw" I think you are calling it is a deflection. For instance, your opponent throws a same side
kick- jab combo. You deflect the kick with the movement after the double biu but use palm energy to attack the weapon, then deflect the incoming punch up with the hand in that "crane position". I was told it is one of the few long bridge movments in WC. This is just one application I've seen.

[sunkuen]

This is a question for the SLT master..... ROLLING HAND.

[OdderMensch]

lets see how this goes:

from the double jam saus;
raise to double tan sau, then raise a bit with double "tok sau" turn and sink (double jut sau) then the double bui sau. Lower to double gum sau, raise with tie sau, then "retreat"

hmm i never noticed before, but it "retreats" without doing a huen sau. Hmmmm.

[Jeff]

That move you describe as a straight arm-finger pointing downwards with the wrist up is tai sau.

From my experience it is a movement that is used when you
need to move from low to high to defend quickly (all with one hand).

After that usually there is just a palm strike to the body or something close to that.

[Mr Punch]

Just typed all this, but the submit got chewed:(

Shadowboxer: this confirms what I've played with, not what I've been told, ta! Just confirms to me, if you're not sure make it up and see if it works ;) !

Now briefly again:

In chi sau, if you do the tai and jam at the same time with opposite hands, give one some extra ging to get your partner concentrating on it (a nice little vertical split :cool: ); so feed through with the other to start a series of strikes. Or, if they are more advanced they won't buy it so just use the ging to bounce off their tension. (If they're really advanced: just face it, you're gonna get it, so just try and learn something :D)

This isn't a question, it's slightly theoretical rambling :p but bear with me a minute...

It works in chi sau but can this dynamic work at a more disengaged distance (sparring etc)?

Do I need less caffeine?!

[sunkuen]

you don't agree?

[sunkuen]

well?

[Mr Punch]

Sorry sunkuen, couldn't check out the board for a bit, then only for a wee while, then the thread had gone down the board a bit... then,

who were you talking to? and

agree with what?

I agreed with shadowboxer and Jeff that that was a likely explanation of that move. I even agreed with Ish that the ging training was a likely explanation of the other move. Now I've found this again and I'm bored, so what's your point?! :)

May as well amuse myself... nobody else appears to be here, and I don't have much to say about the rest of the questions on the board that haven't already been dealt with...

I've since had the tai sau described as a ding sau, with the same function: to rise from a low position to deflect into an upper position, as the other two described it... and I've since been practising it both the upward and downward movement at speed and at all ranges I can work... it seems to work well to split, bounce and set up a sequence. It also seems to work particularly well to re-engage at sparring range against somebody with really stiff arms, when you have to chase them down(when you've kicked in to get them to stop). Was that what you were asking :rolleyes: ? Or were you just being facetious :p ?!

That's about it on this for me. Apologies if I'm wasting anyone's precious bandwidth by putting such technical nonsense ttt again!!