rivalry? choy le fut and pak hok

[andoi]

i have heard rumours that there is sum sort of rivalry or bad blood between pak hok and choy le fut,, i was wondering if anyone else had heard these rumours and if so do they know the reasons? thanx

[Fu-Pow]

Are you talking about Tibetan White Crane or Fukien White Crane?

Very different styles.

[andoi]

sorry of course i forgot....i meant tibetan white crane

[Crimson Phoenix]

Actually their rivalry is rooted in the constant competition between these styles to know which one swings their arms faster and wider heheheheheh
Just kidding...Seriously, I heard some similar story once, but I cannot tell you more about it.

[grogan]

Or though I don't study Pak Hok a friend of mine who does it showed me some moves from there that just blew me away, Andoi if you can tell me a good website to look some stuff up on the art please post it. I think the only way to find out if there is a bit of tension between your schools is to show up to the choy le fut school wearing your school t-shirt if they offer you a deep fried chickens foot you should be right if everything goes silent and they stare at you RUN! But I have only heard good things about both arts in Sydney.

[andoi]

hmmm thats an idea, hey which of your freinds does pak hok?

[andoi]

oh sorry and here is a site www.whitecrane-kungfu.wxs.org

[GOLDEN ARMOR]

Are u talking about the Sydney CLF & TWC schools having a rivalry? if so what have u heard? I trained at the CLF school in late 95, early 96 for a few months b4 i went overseas to LA for a while, so i had to stop. I went back in 2000 but had some bad luck & broke/snapped my wrist/forearm radius bone in jan. 2001 but i went back a few months later & been there for 10 months now but i've never heard anything about a rivalry but i have'nt been there long so u never know. Im sure there is a lot of cool stories in the kung fu circles, i heard there use to be kung fu tournaments in Sydney with all the traditional kung fu schools competing but they stoped entering coz they were making too many rules & ruined them. I also heard some rumors about Master Chen Yong-Fa from my CLF gwoon in some challenges, i don't know the full story thou or if their real.

[andoi]

its just rumours that i have heard but i think that the issue was in china and is quite old, as far as i have heard there is no issues between the sydney schools

[grogan]

Sorry Andoi revealing my source would give my identity away, so I am afraid I can't do it as if I do I can no longer poke fun at people and then skulk away in the shadows with no fear of retribution!

[andoi]

hey grogan just tell me this do i know u, or do u know me cos sumthin in one of your posts gave me this impression

[joedoe]

Never heard anything about the rivalry between schools, but what you say about the tournaments is correct. They used to hold them and they were a lot more informal - often Sifu Randy Bennet would allow them to be held in his kwoon in Surry Hills. There were few rules and the quality of the fights was pretty good. A square was marked out with masking tape and that is where the fights were held.

Gradually they became more like kickboxing tournaments - the fights were held in a boxing ring, and the rules started to look more and more like kickboxing. So, naturally the kickboxing schools moved in and voila - no more kung fu competition.

[pak_hok]

Andoi you're right about a rivalry going on between the pak hok and choy lee fut school, i assume you're talking about the two sydney schools in china town, it has got to do with the lion dancing but it is nothing serious "like i want to bash when i see you".You see along time ago both schools were performing liondancing in Chinatown and one of the schools walked past, while the other out of respected bowed to them, but the other school who was meant to bow didn't which is a sign of disrespect hence thats basically what the rivalry is, well thats what i got told i do pak hok in sydney to but in campbelltown you see so i'm not to sure about the minor details but from what i've asked my sihing thats what it is basically but like i said it's nothing serious.

[pak_hok]

By the way andoi were did you hear that choy lay fut and pak hok have a rivalry from?

Like i said it's nothing serious, but remember curiousity killed the cat

[friday]

This really doesn't have that much to do witht he alleged rivalry issue between Choy Lee Fut and Pak Hok,
what i know of the rules in terms of lion dancing and unicorn is that when two different schools are doing it and they meet each other on the street there is a particular way the unicorns and lions are meant to dance with each other that shows the schools respect each other and are not agressive or insulting...however, if done incorrectly whether deliberately or unintentionally is regarded as very rude and an insult to the other gwoon, this ...in HK can and has lead to fights.

one incident that occurred in HK a few years ago involved many schools that were performing unicorn dancing and lion dancing dragon dancing at the same location for a village anniversary, many of the students in one school danced incorrectly when greeting other schools, there were poor errors in the traditional movements that were meant to take place, the sifu of that school ended up making many calls to apologise to the other schools who they were lucky enuff did not bring the issue to bear on the day of the event.

myself being on the other side of the fence heard about how the other schools were ****ed off that the school had been so rude and had wanted to fight...uhh without wanting to give u the impression that chinese kung fu ppl are violent i hope u all understand that int erms of lion dancing etc there is a right way and a wrong way of doing it when there are more than one traditional school involved when they receive and greet each other. doing it incorrectly or trying to make the other unicorn dancer stuff up by fighting while dancing with the unicorn is considered disrespectful and insulting.

so next time u lion dance, unicorn etc be aware of the rules involved when greeting other unicorn dancers etc. :)

[andoi]

thanx Pak hok and Friday, you hav both provided some interesting insight :) .....again i was led to believe that the "rivalry" was more to do with some old grudge from china but as it was only a rumour i now feel it may be more to do with the incident that pak hok has described...also if u ppl hav any more info on pak hok in oz pls let me know, any old history or anything...i hav sum freind who are starting up in sydney and would like to find out more..thanx again

[pak_hok]

well andoi what type of info would you like to know about pak hok in sydney?.
andoi it sounds like you're interested in starting up and youre from sydney so you have three options you can go to the school in campbelltown, the school in Cabramatta or the school in Chinatown, depending on were you live.
Since there's nothing i can tell you i'll tell you a story about before when i started pak hok, you see before i did pak hok i did muay thai for about 3 years and i guess i was a bit upmyself about, i use to boss people around and one day i got told that this kid did kung fu so i kind of pushed him around and stuff asking him if he wanted to spar with me he kept saying no until eventually he said yes.
So we decided to spar over confident about my prospect of winning, but when we fought he used this technique where he wouldn't get of my face, (literally) he kept running into me with his hand on my face and punching me i couldn't kick him or punch him because if i did i would of put my guard down and he would of hit me.
Eventually i tried to hit him and he punched me on the chin which put me flat on my back.
He'd won, I was expecting him to do that karate kid crap with one leg in the air or the crane peck or something.
Ever since that day i regret my actions but also felt lucky that i was being a idiot because if i didn't i would'nt have discovered pak hok.
I guarantee you andoi if you take it up you'll love it, the technique that the guy was using, who is now a good friends is a technique all famous boxers use, it called the charging gin punch it's really cool and'll blow your mind.
But thats basically all i can tell you but believe me if you take up tibetan white crane you love it if you're the type of guy who likes to learn something that you can use to bash other people up effectively.
So if you want tell us and come to the one in campbelltown i'll introduce you to every one

[HopGar]

Pak Hok

LOL - "Charging Jin Punch"
I'm in Hop Gar - gotta love the Chyun Choi.

[type01]

dear pak hok

I thought kung fu was used to defend yourself, promot discipline focus and keep healthy but the reason you seem to be doing kung fu is to "bash people". You appear to have improved on your attitude somewhat since you joined Tibetian White Crane Kung Fu.....which is a good thing. Your intentions are admirable but one cannot go around telling people that their kung fu style is good to bash people with by doing that you hurt the schools name/rep which i dont think your sifu would like.

[type01]

grogan

why is it if white crane person went to CLF gwoon they would offer him/her a deep fried chickens foot???

[grogan]

If you come to my place and I feel no animosity towards you I will over you a meat pie, sausage roll or a bacon sandwich for example. If I don't like you I would not ofer you such pleasentries. The short and curlies of the theory is if Given a Deep Fried Chickens foot when you enter another schools Kwoon it means they like you, if they thrust a spear into your guts they don't like you.

Chickens Foot = Good

Spear in guts, kick in nuts, = bad

Andoi, if you are of Chinese heritage I might know you if not I don't have the foggiest. Remember my advice people and you will know if someone likes you.:D

[friday]

hmmm...:P

[pak_hok]

Youre right type01 kung fu isn't about bashing people up and white crane isn't about beating people up to, intrinsically the very nature of kung fu is build up wholesome qualities like endurance and discipline.
Sorry for creating that impression and i hope i haven't ****ed off any fellow white crane practicioners or students out there, if i have i apologise for that also

[type01]

pak hok

on the topic of pak hok kung fu i was wondering what your training reigime is like? do you train every day? what kind of excersie you do? etc....If there are any choy li fut people out there i would like to ask the same.

actually anyone willing to share some routine e.g. 100 push ups, 100 sit ups, 50 leg raises, 2km running, 2hrs form training....etc

[pak_hok]

Training regime, well what i like to do is train in the morning I do 5 minutes on waist twisting, 20 minutes on gin punches and maybe 40 push ups, but i've recently bought these weights that the tibetan lamas used called mook yea pai, it's hard to describe but basically it's a forearm exercise which obviously strengthens your forearms , i'm gonna start a push up regime like maybe 200 every three to four days because my sifu said that push ups is important because it builds up muscle with out bulking you up, and gives you a harder punch, i might start doing weights but i doubt it since my sifu said it'll slow me down because weights will make you big and bulky and thats the last thing i want is to bulk up but other than that is basically it except going to training.

[andoi]

thats very interesting....i hav heard of these weight training tools before....they are made of wood yes? you said that you bought them i was just wondering what shop sells them and do they have information books on the corect use and history behind them...thanks for the info, i know it was meant for someone else but thanks anyway:)

[pak_hok]

The mook yei pai that I bought were made by a crafts man I had to show him the ones from my kung fu school which he made for me.
It's made from real heavy hardwood which is hard to get so it cost alot around 80 bucks.
I have a copy of the information book about them but it's not mine it belongs to a friend so i don't exactly know where he got it from.

[NorthernMantis]

rivalry? choy le fut and pak hok

I thought the rivalry was between win chun and choy lay fut?

[type01]

why?? i mean why would wing chun and choy li fut be rivals??

[jon]

"why?? i mean why would wing chun and choy li fut be rivals??"
* Oh you mean APART from the fact they both basicaly the opposite of each other?
I mean one being short hand and linear based and the other being long hand and based on leverage.
Im sure they have always seen eye to eye on every detail:p

Seriously its not so much a grudge as simply that Hung, CLF, Wing Chun, Bak Hok, Bak Mei and several other styles used to reguarly get together during the 50s for a little rooftop technique 'testing' with each other. Needless to say this led to what many would call a rivialry but what infact was a more a mutaly benifical experience for everyone.
During the 50s in Hong Kong all these schools where big names and they used to get together and compete. Any real 'disputes' where only ever limited to particualr schools but its obvious that they will have a little 'friendly' competion between these schools.


There is a grudge match dating back about 300-400 years between Hung and Bak Mei but ive never heard of anything ever coming of it. All these things are basicaly just rumours from what i know there was never any 'serious' grudges between cma schools within public competion.
I cant name one cma style that is litteraly at war with another, its only ever been particular clubs.