Sparring

[PJO]

I was wondering how everyone out there spars. Do you all put on head gear and gloves and have someone judge? Do you award points? I'm very curious how others schools spar and I'm curious how you avoid serious injury. I know an occasional bloody nose or fat lip goes with the territory but I'm talking about more serious injuries. Please be specific.

[nospam]

Sparring IMNSHO, is an advanced training tool, not necessarily just for the advanced student.

There's different kinds of sparring - with equip, without. Light to medium to hard or full contact.

Point sparring is training specifically for a point based tournament situation and differs, or so it should, greatly from sparring used to train 'real' fighting where 'points' have no basis for success.

Any sparring should have a 3rd person referreeing, otherwise the two combatants can not put forth 100% effort and concentration to the matter at hand.

Sparring is also an opportunity for the student to show what they have learned. It allows them to test their skills and abilities againts unrehearsed stimuli.

nospam.
:cool:

[joedoe]

I do not agree that sparring should always have a 3rd person as judge. However I pretty much agree with everything else.

[Fen]

SEE your thread (NEW WEBSITE!!!!)

[respectmankind]

gloves, mouth gaurds, some rules, but basicaly nothing too big. and what we call sparring is usually more a bunch of matches.

[PJO]

I guess what I was looking for was more specifics. Is it mostly just the attacker kicking and punching, you block then counter or are there actual techniques involved? Do you square up and kind of dance around like in boxing until one person attacks. Please humor me. These might sound like stupid questions but I was just curious because I don't spar and so many of you do.

[joedoe]

It is important to spar, regardless of how deadly your art is. The main reason I usually give is this - how many people really know how to handle getting hit?

Most people freeze when they get hit. They get dazed, scared, angry - whatever. Then they get overrun by their opponent. Sparring helps you to learn what it is like to get hit and how to handle that situation. You can train for years in the most deadly of arts, but if you freeze as soon as you get hit then all that training is virtually useless.

[joedoe]

Sorry, we must have posted at the same time :)

All of the following is done with at least gloves, head gear if desired and sometimes body padding. No nasty stuff is used (groin strikes, throat strikes etc), nor are the limb breaking techniques.

When we spar, we usually start people just using hand techniques. They can take turns at attacking and defending, or they can go free form and attack and defend as they wish. We usually encourage light contact only. The focus is to get used to having someone attack you, and to learn to use your technique to at least defend.

As you progress, we allow the use of kicks and the contact can come up a little.

Eventually people are allowed to spar full contact if they wish. This means they can attack and defend as they see fit. We encourage the use of the art in this, but if people come up with novel attacks and defences this is OK too.

The basic idea is to attempt to simulate fight conditions as closely as possible without either party getting badly hurt.

[PJO]

I guess we do some of that. We sometimes have gauntlet type situations where one person goes in the middle, then a random person will attack. The person in the middle has to defend himself but also be able to recover and fight from the last position. This is done quite slow. When I said we do no sparring in my earlier post I was thinking of head gear, gloves, and a judge, also with full speed, full contact. We don't do any of that but that's not to say I've never had someone attack me hard.

[Ryu]

sparring.
Boxing head gear, light gloves.

No rounds or points or anything. My partner and I will box, clinch, takedown, grapple, ground and pound, go for submissions, etc. We go moderate to full contact and we go wherever the fight takes us.

We also work scenario drills with 'aliveness" too. One may wear a motorcycle helmet, and push, shove, cuss, throw a strike (with gloves) and the other will either strike first, de-escalate, headbutt, elbow, etc. All full contact.

Weapon work would be with heavy gloves, wooden knives or sometimes markers, and helmets. This way we can go full contact on the face, arm, hand, etc.

Ryu

[Satanachia]

Basically, we wear mouth guards, gloves, and boxes if your a guy.

We don't go full ball, as i doubt anyone sparring actually does. We're trying to mimick reality as much as possible kind of.
The size of the gloves is up to you really. For a begginer, we start of with the big gloves, and only body shots, just for one or two turns just to get them use having someone hit you. You soon realise, that after a while, with gloves on, if your both reasonably fit, you can sit there hitting away at each others bodies as though it was pillow fighting.
After that we'll move on to head targets being allowed. The size of the gloves, if any, are up to you and your partner, and once you start feeling comfortable you can put in kicks as well.

The idea is to try and simulate a real fight and get as close to the real thing as possible. Once someone gets in a position where the fight would of been finished on the street (ie, a decent throw, or a hold with a couple of nice strong taps on the back of the head to show you could of put your hand through it 6 times by now if you wanted to), then you seperate and start again. Basically the idea is, if someone's just connected to you solidly in the head with a a jab, two crosses and hook while sparing, don't hit them back in the head when they decide to stop, they're being nice in stopping, and in real life you'd be at their mercy or unconscious on the ground.

We also occasionally wrestle, where the rules are no hits, you can either start standing or both on your knees, and you have to make the other guy tap out.

[Ray Pina]

I find the best practice is to find a few guys who train outside of your own school.

Invest in caged head gear, chest protector, boxing gloves, mouth piece, elbow and shin guards. SOunds like alot, but you are really attacking and being attacked you need it.

I suggest outside of school because soemtimes teachers are worried about liability or seniors loosing face to juniors.

This way also keeps ego out of class. Depends on the school and level of practioner there. If you have experience alreday, class should be a place to go and get new info, a boost, some new theory or way of looking at it. Then its your job to go out and test it, make it work for you.

Some schools will do this in house. Either way, it must be done.

[JWTAYLOR]

Pretty much the same thing Ryu posted.
It kind of depends on who is there as well. If we have a bunch of new people, we'll go fairly light. But there are a few people in our school that I've known for allot of years and we all have a bit more of an understanding with each other.

Cups, mouthguards, headgear, light gloves, foot pads, shins if you want them. No targets are specifically "off limits". No specific contact is given. We generally give the rule that the least experienced person sets the pace. So if the new guy wants to go all out, I'm going to take him all out. If he/she is more comfortable starting out light and slow, that's ok too. It's all a learning process. With the people that have been around awhile the rule is that we're all freinds and don't due any stupid sh!t to change that.

For example, I don't hit directly into anyones face anymore. I'll tag their cheek or jaw, or their forehead. Most people don't do that. Most go right for your nose. After I broke somebody's nose I decided that it wasn't neccessary for me to do that anymore.

Moreover, nobody comes in for one match. Maybe 4 couples will be on the mat, all sparring at the same time. I'm a bast@rd, and sometimes I'll throw a beginner into someone else's fight. Can't do that with experienced people. Anyway, you rotate all night. So I know if some jacka$$ is going way too hard on someone who clearly can't hack, then next round when he comes my way I'll definatley up the level. The same goes for most of the people there.

The only danger really is with the new people. The advanced people have allot more control. Common injuries are sprains, bruises, bloodied noses and lips. Unfortunately, knee injuries are far too common. I haven't met anyone advanced who hasn't had some knee injury. Hand injuries are pretty common as well. So are hernias, which sucks. If you keep doing it you will get a real injury at some point. Price you pay.

The round is over when time is called, or submission. In the event of a submission, the couple is stood back up, and the round begins again.

Sparring lasts about an hour. It is the most tiring thing on the planet. By the end of the night it's everything I can do to keep my hands up, much less throw a punch.

JWT

[rogue]

Sparring is essential to our style, we do it every class.

Only protective gear is a cup. Targets are light contact to the torso for beginners, moderate to hard contact to anywhere "safe" for advanced on advanced, light contact to head.

The main thing is to be responsible for your partners well being and to use common sense. Then if we had common sense we'd probably wouldn't be sparring this way.

Same list of injuries as JWT except for hernias.

[JWTAYLOR]

You know I just found out about the hernia thing. I was telling people at my school that I think I got one during my wreck. And one after the next I heard about their hernias. Turns a guy got one from one of my punches in sparring. Who knew?

JWT

[diego]

I have always wanted one but the stores always out....Seriously, you get it from gutshots:confused: , what's the Deal!.

[LEGEND]

All out sparring=Toughman like fight...the problem is trying to remain composed after getting tagged and not going RAHHHHHHHHH!

[wushu chik]

PJO
Are you going to start incorperating sparring in your classes now?

[JWTAYLOR]

Yeah, apparently from getting hit hard in the abdomen.

JWT

[PJO]

Originally posted by wushu chik
PJO
Are you going to start incorperating sparring in your classes now? No, I was just curious. As I said before, I suppose we do some form of sparring but it's nothing like what's listed here.

[JWTAYLOR]

BTW, Ryu, the thing with markers.

Always pi$$es me off. You'll think you did great only to find tiny lines and dots all over your body. An eye opener to say the least.
Same thing goes with chalking up a rubber/wooden knife.

JWT

[wushu chik]

Uh huh....well, have you guys ever done tournaments?

[ewallace]

Here we go again. I'm going to make some popcorn.

[PJO]

I really don't want to start another thread about my school, just curious about how other arts do it.

[Fen]

OK...uh, but you didn't answer my question.

[PJO]

what was your question?

[wushu chik]

You didn't answer my question either. About the tourneys....I could have sworn you guys were the school we saw at the last tournament in Lincoln City. But I could be wrong! Wait, that's not possible......

~Wen~

[JWTAYLOR]

Well hell, I'll answer her.

We don't go to tournaments as a school. However, students in the school do participate in tournaments. All kinds, from forms to point sparring to full contact kickboxing. As far as I know, no one has entered a strictly grappling tourney. Competition is very much expected. Mr. Duffy doesn't really expect you to always be competing, but he likes to see some competition under your belt.

JWT

[PJO]

We never have and I don't think we will.

[wushu chik]

thanks JWT...at least you answered me! PJO...why not?

[PJO]

It just goes against our strictly self-defence philosophy. I'm assuming you mean tournaments with sparring matches? Rules of tournaments don't apply on the street. We would have to change our style too much. Doesn't make sense for us.

[ewallace]

:)

[wushu chik]

Hmm, must be poor kung fu if you can't train for different uses. I suppose your "main goal" is to get the kill too? I am sure. Anyways, makes no differene to me what you do. I already have my opinion of the school! Besides your wesbite, you have told me everything I need to know about your school. And my opinion stands firm...McKwoon. Hope you guys enjoy robbing others of their money. Sad, really, that people are sucked into stupid bs like this.

[PJO]

We don't train to kill just to survive. Why would we take out the most effective part of our art just to compete?

[JWTAYLOR]

Rules of tournaments don't apply on the street. We would have to change our style too much.

Ok, how about a little role play.

Let's just say you and I are in a ring. I know, it'll never happen, but let's just go to fantasy land for a minute.

In this magical fairy tale ring, I'm in front of you. I don't have boxing gloves on, and I charge at you while you are in your corner. I throw a hard uppercut off my back hand at your chin and then attempt to continue punching and kicking you until you are unconcious and someone pulls me off you. That is, very much a common thing to see in a ring.

What changes would you have to make in your art to fit into say, Vale Tudo style rules?

JWT

[PJO]

Well it depends on what animal I decide to go with. If I use tiger I would have to remove the claws that unhinge the jaw and probably get rid of the stop to the knee. If I used mantis I'd probably have to remove everything because the mantis wants to get a hold of you and break everything, ie,wrist, elbow, rotator, not to mention the knees.

[ewallace]

:)

[Water Dragon]

You tell 'em PJ, All JWT can do is give ya a hernia.

[txwingchun]

:eek:

[Jamesbond_007]

HMM, last time I checked if I had someone charging at me wanting to beat the snot out of me I wouldn't have time to stand back and think, okay I have an attacker infront of me, what animal will I decide to use? If my attacker comes with a right punch I will use this animal and because I use this animal I must controll this and that because that is what the animal does. All you can do is react!!!! The thing I find so funny with a lot of MA classes is they teach you to do certain techniques againist certain attackes. But the truth is you never know what you attacker is going to do, and yo can't sit back and think!!! Also a lot of research has gone into proving that when you are put in a violent situation and your adreneline is pumping, must people lose their fine motor skills and use gross motor skills, so there goes your whole fancy animal moves and techinques.

[PJO]

Just giving examples for each animal. I have so much of that in my head that somethings bound to come out whether it be tiger or whatever and if when the adrenalin's pumping you lose fine motor skills why train?

[Jamesbond_007]

Why not train? Do all people play basketball to make it into the pros? Train for fun, for exercise, for the health benefits, and for peace of mind and self defense. Remember in a fight things happen so fast that you cannot afford to think, just react!! Why do you thing Bruce Lee taught simplicity. To learn a couple of simple techinques, a couple of moves and then train them like crazy until they become second nature. Until you can do them by just reaction and not by thinking.

[joedoe]

... if when the adrenalin's pumping you lose fine motor skills why train?

Because it is better than not having any training at all.

Well, some might argue that no training is better than bad training, but we won't go into that :)

[wushu chik]

Please don't give examples of animals. Remember, I saw the clips on your site! Anyways, we train San Shou, point sparring & self defense. We don't lose ANY of our art. Hmmmm, I wonder why that is??

And, Joedoe...you're right, we just won't get into that again! I agree with that statement.

[crumpet]

Originally posted by Jamesbond_007
The thing I find so funny with a lot of MA classes is they teach you to do certain techniques againist certain attackes. But the truth is you never know what you attacker is going to do, and yo can't sit back and think!!!

the point is to train those defences over and over again, so that in the end it becomes 2nd nature. you won't even have to think about it, it's now your 'natural' reaction...

[Jamesbond_007]

crumpet:
I totally agree!!! I was just trying to point out to PJO that what he thinks will work may not. I see a lot of schools (I used to belong to one) that would teach you 150 different techniques for a right punch. Can anyone practice a 150 right punch techniques until second nature? Sure, but it would take forever!!!! And I bet you would get confused. My whole point is to PJO that fighting is not what he is being taught. It is not controlled, it is not slow motion, and it involes contact. If you don't train like a real fight will be like then you will not be prepared for when you happen to be in one.

[crumpet]

never heard of a school teaching 150 defences for 1 attack, but some styles might have say... 10 defences for 1 attack, and what i personally think one should do is pull out 2 or 3 they like best, and concentrate on those.

[anton]

Okay I'm going to make a pretty strong comment:
I think it is impossible to train for self defense if you don't spar. Being in a setting where your opponent is not just focusing on learning proper technique, but actually landing it, getting through your defenses and hitting you as many times as s/he can is invaluable. There is nothing that can replace this type of training. Personally I prefer full contact free-sparring where each person both attacks and defends. Of course gloves are a necessity and headgear/mouthguards are recommended

[BSH]

I would hope sparring is a part of every school. It is a MARTIAL art.

My school prepares people to spar and then slowly integrates them into full contact sparring. People advance at the pace that is right for them. One should never be put in a position where they can hurt themselves or others.

Take a look at how a school spars. If it is not in a controlled environment, which gradually allows students to progress, it is dangerous and people will get hurt.

I find that most students begin their sparring looking like brawlers and slowly add the techniques they have been learning.

[Mr Punch]

PJO, please check Prana's thread:

http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11235

I think this serves your question adequately. In my style, we like to spar using the first method shown. We start by pointing fingers and hurling 'yo mama' style insults (please see other thread)... this helps deal with psychological intimidation, enabling you to keep your cool, preventing any danger of serious injury or anyone getting the red mist. After a while we escalate to a frenzy of skipping, shuffling, and more advanced intricate animalistic approach techniques... of course, after several months, we progress to 'full contact'. Without full contact, you will never know how REAL animals fight. But, as you rightly point out, 'full contact' is a bit dangerous, so we use predetermined attack sequences. It seems to start a long way away, but so do many real fights. I heard that Da Mo once issued a challenge to the Wu Shaolin Tang Triad over a distance of several hundred years and miles... and rest :D

The second picture is maybe more like your sparring. Please be sure to notice the fingers carefully pointed backwards to avoid any possible injury.

Er. I'm bored. Seriously, BSH, anton, and JWT have covered this adequately. Hope you have fun (sorry, maybe that's not the right expression for the practice of your lethal techniques) and keep safe in your sparring.

And JWT, you're not coming anywhere near my ring if you're an expert in giving hernias... :eek: *sigh* back to the schoolyard...

[PJO]

Originally posted by wushu chik
Please don't give examples of animals. Remember, I saw the clips on your site! Well seeing as how you don't know me and couldn't possibly know how much I know I think it is entirely possible that I might know more about some animals than you. ie. Praying Mantis

[wushu chik]

You are so full of yourself. So, why don't you enlighten me on what exactly you know...and how much more you THINK you know than me. This should be REALLY good. And since you have NO clue as to who I am, you don't know d!ck about what I know.

I will tell you what I do know. That you are NOT who you say you are. That you came on here to promote your school for some GOD AWFUL reason, and now that you are being bashed, you are being a b!tch. You think you know a lot about NOTHING...and you try to tell us we don't know anything. You have either been lied to a lot, or you know how to make up crap VERY BADLY. Either way, you and your school are a joke...


~Wen~

[Ryu]

ewallace, can I have some of that popcorn?


Ryu

[anton]

When you get some pass it this way :D

[dezhen2001]

i'll ge tthe drinks :D

david

[rogue]

Hold my seat, I have to go to the mens room!

[ewallace]

Sure man. Just don't put your fingers in your mouth and then stick them back in the bucket. Kinda like double-dipping hot sauce.

[guohuen]

Ewallace, make mine with butter, and David I'll have a Newcastle.

[JWTAYLOR]

If I use tiger I would have to remove the claws that unhinge the jaw and probably get rid of the stop to the knee. If I used mantis I'd probably have to remove everything because the mantis wants to get a hold of you and break everything, ie,wrist, elbow, rotator, not to mention the knees.

Nope. Sorry. Everything you mentioned above is legal is several venues. A claw that "unhinges the jaw" is legal in even the more "tame" NHB tourneys, and kicks to the knee are common is many venues. Joint breaks happen in just about every venue there is, from strict grappling tournemants to NHB to even the K1.

If you don't want to compete, that's ok. But don't make up excuses that only highlight the inadequacy of your training.


JWT

[ewallace]

:) JWT.

Got the second bag popping right now.

Man PJO has had the worst induction to this forum that I have ever seen.

[Ray Pina]

PJO I understand what you are saying. What I would like to share with you is that there are venues where you can test your skills withough having to change a thing, except perhaps neckbreaks -- though I don't think there is a rule against that either.

There are full contact tournaments that not only allow full contact to everywhere on the body, but allow kicking the kicking leg and taking out the suporrting leg knee. You name it, you can do it.

I am training for just such events right now, and plan on entering in the end of summer early fall.

Maintaining that an art is too deadly to test can be a dangerous trap. Perhaps not against your classmates, but there are people like me out there who want to fight people with a mindset like your own. It is the only way to be sure that what you are so fearful of using does actually work -- against a skilled apponant and not the bum on the street.

Get gear. All of it. Head to toe. Elbow, shin, instep, boxing gloves, head gear, mouth piece. Now you can test full power, but one should be trained in obsorbing power and be quite comfortable protecting the head still. Who can afford multiple full power head shots?

I'm bruised up as we speak, from training to absorb kicks to the body. Got to start somewhere.

[PJO]

Originally posted by wushu chik
You are so full of yourself. So, why don't you enlighten me on what exactly you know...and how much more you THINK you know than me. This should be REALLY good. And since you have NO clue as to who I am, you don't know d!ck about what I know.

I will tell you what I do know. That you are NOT who you say you are. That you came on here to promote your school for some GOD AWFUL reason, and now that you are being bashed, you are being a b!tch. You think you know a lot about NOTHING...and you try to tell us we don't know anything. You have either been lied to a lot, or you know how to make up crap VERY BADLY. Either way, you and your school are a joke...


~Wen~ Why are you so angry? I don't think I've ever heard anyone in martial arts/Kung Fu with a worse attitude. I thought practicing Kung fu gave most people some sense of inner peace. When you learned your art did you just leave out all of its philosophies? I think you need some serious anger counceling.

[PJO]

Thank you for being one of the only muture people on this forum, that actually listens and tries to be constructive. What you are saying sounds interesting to me. I think I'm probably pretty far away from entering something like that but who knows? Maybe in the future. One more question for everyone. Do you feel like you have to compete to prove your art works? Are you proving it to yourself or to others? What if you are happy knowing you can defend yourself on the street and may never use what you know? Just a thought.

[Water Dragon]

PJO, you prove it to yourself.

[JWTAYLOR]

Do you feel like you have to compete to prove your art works?

Blindly taking someone else's word for something that YOU can verify for yourself is foolish.

I won't say "compete" for absolutely everyone. But if you have never been in a serious physical "street" confrontation as an adult then I would definately say that you have to compete to prove your art works for you.

When I teach students I am very aware that what they are hearing they may very well take for fact. Therefore, if what I tell them to do won't work in a real threatening situation then I am very much responsible for their injury. So I have to test it out for myself.

I've had my street fights, I've had my ring fights. I hope I'm done with the street fights, and I'm most likely done with my ring fights. But I've tested myself. I've won some, and I've definatley lost some. Both on the street and in the ring.

But I've tested myself. I've seen it for myself, and I've learned allot. Becuase of that, I'm a better person, a better martial artist, and a better teacher.

What it really comes down to is that "I have" is just so much more comforting than "I could".

JWT

[ewallace]

What it really comes down to is that "I have" is just so much more comforting than "I could".
Outstanding. Very well said.

To edit that,

What it really comes down to is that "I have" is just so much more comforting than "I could have".

[Ray Pina]

To be honest, I'm pretty comfortbale with what I know to handle myself in a one-on-one situation on the street with anyone up to 6'2 and below 250lbs. I'm confortable at the very least I can do enough to free myself from the situation and get away.

But I love martial arts, and now it is not so much about self defense as perfecting technique, so the bar can be raised to 6'3 and 250 lbs plus, perhaps two men, perhaps three if they are similiary sized, maybe weak of mind, body or countenance.

But my focus now is raising my level so I can fight good fighters. Who has a name? What style is considered top notch. I want to judge myself and skill against those players.

Is it for me or for them? Both.

I have to say, in finding ym master I believe I have found the ultimate technique. The combining of his Ba Gua/Hsing-I/Taiji + his dragon pole, sword, ect. into his E-Chuan system is what I sort of visualized in the deepest part of my soul when day dreaming or night reaming but could never manifest. I'm learning now.

So one part wants to be a great fighter, to beat great fighters -- and I know I will take more lumps along this path. The other, honestly, is I would like the world to see the genious of my master. At 60 he facces challenges more than any teacher I had -- in fact, only my S. Mantis teacher faught challenge matches before. My Isshin-Ryu, Hung Gar and Wing Chun teachers never did.

At 60, my master will fight, and fight verousicly, exhibiting huge power without a hint of physican strenght being applied. Its wierd. I have more reach, size and weight, yet he can hit me but I can't hit him. He's in position but I'm not. This is his way. I belive this is the Way, or at least the Way I will follow to the end of my days.

Whatever your Way, make it work. And best of luck to you. Its not always easy, but it is fun. The moment it stopps being fun, take the gloves off and enjoy relaxing.

[Ryu]

PJO,
You have to test your skills with opponents who are not letting you perform. Not everyone has to "compete" in the sense of going into the ring and becoming a ring fighter, UFC champ, etc. Many people have different passions in life and in order to compete in a tournament you have to really have the "desire" to do it. Otherwise you won't do well.
Not fighting in tournaments because you simply don't want to is fine. You don't have to. But saying your art is too dangerous for competition is a fallacy to me. People who fight in tournaments or even in hardcore sparring against resiting, fighting opponents have an edge on those who do not.
You really can't know the difference until you do it.

Regardless of whether you want to fight in a tournament or not, you (in my opinion) absolutely HAVE to test what you are doing in full contact sparring with parnters who are trying to beat you. Don't pose. Martial arts are like a science as well as a spiritual type dicipline. You learn something, you form a hypothesis on how or if it would work, and you TEST it. And re-test it.
It doesn't necessarily have to be in a competition with big lights, crowds, etc. But it does need to be real. You need to have contact, you have to allow the fight to go anywhere, you have to keep fighting if someone slips, falls, goes to the ground, etc.
You can even start putting environmental elements into it to. Spar on concrete, in dusty gravel, in grass, in the snow, when it's raining, etc. There are a lot of realistic ways to train, and the key is reality. Even though I don't fight in tournaments myself, I do think they are realistic in terms of the physicality of a fight. If you choose not to fight in them for whatever reason, at LEAST test your skills realistically with opponents who are fighting back and trying to beat you. And they really have to be trying to do it. And they have to be skilled themselves.

Ryu

[wushu chik]

Originally posted by PJO
Why are you so angry? I don't think I've ever heard anyone in martial arts/Kung Fu with a worse attitude. I thought practicing Kung fu gave most people some sense of inner peace. When you learned your art did you just leave out all of its philosophies? I think you need some serious anger counceling.

I am not angry. There's nothing about that post that sounds angry. It's true to the fact, nothing more, nothing less. And what would you know about practicing kung fu and the philosophies that comes with it? You don't do kung fu, so don't start lecturing me on what it's supposed to do for a person. The philosophies is what I did learn in Kung Fu, besides my forms and such. And anger counseling isn't necessary when I have a forum like this to bash people like you. Thats the thing with me, PJO...I don't like people like you that think they are cool for learning an "art" like yours, then coming on here and telling us we don't know anything about what the history REALLY is, etc. You are the one that made yourself look foolish, NOT ME or anyone else on here.

But, because your ignorance annoys me, and I don't want to deal with you anymore....End of discussion, because you are a loser, and I have more important things to do with my time. The theater ran out of popcorn.

[ewallace]

The theater ran out of popcorn
Please do not handle the T.V. remote after eating popcorn. It is not very considerate to others.

Cripes wushu, this one really got you worked up. I think some heavy sparring might be in your future to relieve some of the agression built by these last few threads. :)

[PJO]

Thanks for finally getting off of this thread! It leaves room for mature people who actually have well thought out ideas and constructive critisism. Not immature, angry little people, who for some reason hate the world. Were you picked on as child? You need to grow up. Oh and by the way I think if you read all of my post and compare them to yours you'll see who thinks they know it all and who he is really full of themselves. Who made you judge of all that is Kung Fu anyway? With that said I'll only pay attention to post such as EvolutionFist and Ryu.

[wushu chik]

Look!!! You are the fake, not me!! And I feel sorry for the poeple you're stealing from and lying to!!! Live with that!!! You are a fake. So sorry if it makes me angry about dealing with fake people like you on here. It would be different if you actually wanted to come on here to learn, and not just promote your school. Like I said before, it was YOU that brought this on...nobody else.

[The Willow Sword]

One of the things that i have learned is that the more realistic your sparring is the better it is going to help you in combat should you ever get into a situation that warrants that. what this ACTUALLY MEANS is that when you spar you have gear and some protection buy you still will get hurt(ie:fractured ribbies,bruises scraped and sparins and a broke something or two) this just goes with the territory of what we do. this aint billy blanks Tae Bo and this isnt,in my opinion and exact science.
theory and possibles are just that and ONLY that. one thing that i try to learn from my full contact experiences is that the less i think the better. and in teaching the less i talk the better. movement is important and reacting to whatever comes at you is important as well. you can go through fight scenarios and chpreograph routines and stuff,,but this , I BELIEVE will not transfer over into your survival skills. sparring should be spontaneous and above all a learning experience and fun hearted,despite the injury that will occur. here is a good regimen for sparring. you face your opponent and you say to him/her "attack me and lets see how i deal with it" go from there. there ARE NO ABSOLUTES IN FIGHTING. keep it real and keep it simple. hsingi has taught me that above all.
Many respects ,,Willow Sword.

[illusionfist]

PJO- I checked out the vids on your schools website and from what i saw on a technique level, most of the animals all moved within the same lines. I saw the stop kick used a lot, which is a good technique for sparring, and is oftentimes legal.

So lets say all the skills you have equal 100 percent of your fighting repetoire. I would gather that if you eliminated the "deadly" content, you would be left with at least 80-85 percent of your total skills. This 80-85 percent is MORE than sufficient for sparring or ring based combat.

So take out the mantis diu sau to the forehead, eyes, etc and just use pek chois (sorry for the cantonese) or gwa chois. Instead of using "razor wings" just use sow choys, etc.

IMHO, if you dont spar you tend to bleed a lot more when the dung hits the rotary.

Just a thought

[Zapf Dingbat]

Just would like to know, as a beginner.... on average, how far into training do most people begin to spar? I'm curious because I've only been receiving real training for about 3 months now.

[JWTAYLOR]

6 months + for any real contact sparring in our school. But we're a little slower than others.

JWT