SLT's tan saos

[IronFist]

Ok, two questions:

1. Regarding the slow tan saos in the first part. When you're extending it, should your elbow gradually come in as you extend your hand, or should your elbow come in to the center position and then slow extend from there? Ok, this is confusing so let me rephrase it. Is it: a) as you are extending the tan sao, the elbow is slowly moving to its centerline position so that when the tan sao is fully extended, the elbow is in the correct spot (correct spot meaning proper position relative to your centerline)? or b) you move your elbow there first, and then for the duration of the tan sao extension it is just the arm extending and no lateral movement of the elbow (ie. the elbow is already traveling along the centerline)?

2. Regarding the tan saos in the third (I guess?) part. Like where you have tan sao, jum sao, or whatever. When you are extending this tan sao:

a) do you keep your palm mostly flat as in the above tan sao

or

b) do you kind of "corkscrew it" so that, say, when you're doing it with your left hand your left palm starts out kind of facing your right foot, and as you extend it, it rotates so it's facing 90 degrees to the right, and then finally at it's full extension it is facing upwards? I've seen it done both ways so I want to know which is correct.

Thanks guys.

IronFist

[fa_jing]

I've studied two different versions of the form. What I learned and continue to do for #1, is first open and put the hand so that the center of the palm is on your centerline, with the elbow still angled out, then as you tan sao moves out the elbow moves inward towards the centerline as you described, only reaching the centerline at the end of the movement. In case #2, my current lineage says go straight out like #1, while in TWC lineage it is as you say, except that the palm faces completely down at the start and this "corkscrew" tan sao, is called Scooping Tan Sao. I think there is a benefit to both ways of performing the motion.

-FJ

[bobrock]

This is how I do the slow tan sau at the beginning.
From rest position open the fist and slowly extend forwards. The the hand should go to and stay on the centreline. The elbow moves onto the centerline as soon as it can i.e. when it clears the body. (energy should be in the elbow, the arm and fingers should be relaxed).

The tan sau in the third part is performed exactly the same but obviously faster and with energy at the end. I do not apply any 'corkscrew' to the tan sau.

[IronFist]

Awesome! You guys just gave me opposite answers :)

I'm just happy I was able to describe my question well enough for you to understand.

I think I'm seeing that there is more than one way to do things in WC...

Alright, I'm going to class now, but keep the replies coming :D

IronFist

[bobrock]

What benefit does the corkscrew give?

[IronFist]

Momentum maybe?

IronFist

[fa_jing]

Speculation: Scooping tan sao has about the same motion as the ward-off in the beginning of Yang's Tai Chi. Spiral motion creates stability even when the hand is still moving and the tan sao is not yet in it's final position. The motion as it appears in the TWC form is obviously exagerated, but teaches how to tan sao from any palm-down position.
-FJ

[Sharky]

I wasn't taught to have the elbow in centreline. Elbows *IN* but not in centreline. That feels unnatural.

Elbow comes CLOSER to centreline gradually - the way i do it.

[IronFist]

Sharky, right, that's what I meant. By "elbow in centerline position" I just meant the location it is in when your hand is in the centerline. Uh... yeah... so basically it's like you said; in, but not ON the centerline.

:D

IronFist

[bobrock]

obviously some people can get the elbow closer to centre line than others, depending on build and flexibility etc. dont try and force the elbow into centre line.

[dezhen2001]

the way i do it is this: open fist so fingers point out. Slowly move the hand out in to the tan sau position. The hand and elbow gradually move in towards the centre as you keep the hand moving forwards. Stop with the elbow 1 fist from the body.

hope that makes sense :confused:

david