YJKYM stance test?

[IronFist]

Is there a test to see if you've got this stance right? Like should I just have someone try to push me over and see if I am rooted well? How hard should they push? Any other little things you've learned?

Sorry, this is a pretty stupid question but now that I'm starting to practice this pretty hardcore I want to make sure my stance is right :)

IronFist

[diego]

http://www.chusaulei.com/martial/articles/articles_root.html
I first read this in martialartslegends/presents:WINGCHUN.

[Zhuge Liang]

Ironfist, I think that your personal drive to learn Wing Chun is highly commendable, and that you would make an excellent practioner of the art if you found a good teacher. But I can't help but wonder if the time you're spending trying to learn the art through video tapes is really worth it. I'm not saying that it's impossible, because I don't know, but I don't think learning Wing Chun in this manner is likely to yield any significant results.

To illustrate my point, let me go by a personal example, relating to your question of stance. I started Wing Chun at a school other than the one I'm studying now. I trained for about a year, and I thought I had a half decent SLT. I mean, I was doing ok at sticky hands, so I figured my basic stance was at least half decent.

Then, after I graduated from college, I had to move and I found my current teacher. He basically started me from the beginning, with very good reason. After a year of practice, I essentially had _NO_ stance. I'm 6'2", ~220 lbs, and he was pushing me around like I was nothing. Now, about a year later, I'm finally starting to feel _a little_ substance to my stance. Meaning I can start to absorb a little force with my structure.

The point is, in terms of stance work, my initial year at my first school was totally wasted. Then, after training correctly (more or less, probably less) for about a year am I able to get some semblance of root. And this is with my sifu constantly correcting my mistakes. These mistakes can be incredibly subtle. Sometimes I found that the difference between correct and incorrect isn't even physically discernable! It was the "intent" that made the difference! We have an idiom that roughly translates "Off by and inch, off by a mile," which I feel isn't an exaggeration. Without these corrections I can safely say that I wouldn't get to where I am in 10 years, if ever.

Hopefully, I wasn't too discouraging, as that was not my intent. Your time is yours, and you should train however you want. I just wanted to point out that there may be a more efficient use of your training time, in terms of what you get versus the time you put it. (Perhaps another style if Wing Chun isn't available?)

But I will go ahead and answer your question anyway, from my non-definitive point of view. I think that yes, you should be able to absorb some pressure if your stance is correct. This means that someone should be able to push you in your stance, and you shouldn't topple over. Also, you shouldn't lean either. So if someone were to push on you, and you can maintain your stance, and if all of a sudden the release the pressure, you should not flop forward as a result.

As to the question of how much pressure, not much, at first, but it builds with time. In my personal experience, when I first started don chi (single stick hand), if my partner applied any significant pressure, I felt myself lose balance. Over time, after a lot of SLT (with posture corrections) and don chi, I was able to divert some of the pressure down to my legs. So when someone applied pressure, I maintained my balance and felt the load on my knees increase. However, after a certain point in the degree of pressure, I would still lose balance. After more time, I was able to divert more to my legs and absorb more pressure. And that's basically where I stand today. I'm still working on it.

So don't be discouraged if you can't absorb a lot. It simply takes time.

Zhuge Liang

[Alpha Dog]

Gan mao: yung se-se, yung se-se;
Ke sou: yung se-se, yung se-se!

[Zhuge Liang]

Alpha Dog,

I understand Pinyin, but I have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry =P

Zhuge Liang

[Alpha Dog]

You must be the classical Zhu Ge Liang, then, not the modern-day, bowl-cut singer/comedian. Dzeng Shen Sha Ren!

[S.Teebas]

Ironfist....

Hate to say it man but quit wasting your time. If you really want to become a proficent fighter learn off ANYONE who is willing to teach you that is the real deal. What Zhuge Liang said is correct... If you ever walk into a wing chun kwoon you'll get ur ass handed to you on a plate! ...or more the matter, if you try that on the street you'll soon realise that you need to be doing Wc correctly for it to work. I hate to sound like a b@stard but u know that saying: "Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind"...

Personally id rather learn boxing than WC off tapes and the internet.:(

Get some real life traning. Its very different.

[Sabu]

Originally posted by IronFist
Is there a test to see if you've got this stance right? Ironfist, you'll find all the answers in the chi sau. Will you stay standing? Will you be flying across the room? You'll definitely know then...

[sunkuen]

LMFAO@ Sabu....

[chessGMwannabe]

ironfist, good question. my stance has changed a lot since I've been doing wing chun, going from ugly to pretty (and kind of flimsy) to dang nasty and desparate (when I started to feel how week I was and started some chisau with someone that didn't believe in holding back) and slowly economized and to where I can really start to feel some strength and form, and can actually move without losing my rooting. I remember one time I went to a seminar, like less than a year since I started WC, I was trying a little too hard, and the kungfu god came over to me and didn't like my stance too well. we were doing chain punces at the time and he caught one of my fists and gave it a nice little jerk outwards and I popped right out of stance (really embarassing) then he told me to let all of my punches come out all the way, a little bit slower and with serious power, and he told me to let my shoulder even sink forward, kind of whipping. the idea was to punch harder than the stance could hold so that it would want to pull you forward. I immediately started to find myself sinking, and not leaning so much. I'd suggest that if you tried this out you make sure that your punches are relaxed enough that you don't hurt yourself while performing it. If your elbows are hyperextending you could end up in some trouble when you get the backlash. you also shouldn't feel your arm pulling at all to prevent your arm from hyperextending. you just have to practice the punches enough that your muscles know exactly how to work and your arm naturally stops when it's extended and the excess force you feel is pullin forward, not your elbow up. if you don't have someone to watch you do it, i'd be really careful, especially if you haven't quite gotten the hang of relaxation yet. as far as the whole idea of solo learning . . .
there is serious reason for people to tell you that you're probably wasting your time with it. but I also understand where you're coming from because I also tried to learn martial arts (not wing chun) without an instructor for a good while, from books which is undoubtedly harder than what your doing. but of all the martial arts you could try to learn by yourself, wing chun is the hardest I can think of now. here's what I learned.
the hardest thing is actually accumulating ability. you can get involved in the theory, and get a really elaborate superficial understanding of it, but it will be really hard to find depth in you study because of how little comparative skill you have. you can train and get yourself in really good condition, and you can physically do the moves, but it doesn't matter because when it comes down to it your body will have difficulty knowing what to do. it's like there's a gap between your brain and your body. chisau is the best way to work on melting that away but you can't really do that by yourself so here's my advise.
the forms will be your best friend. be relentless on yourself. the great thing about wing chun is that it is the slt is you most important form and it isn't very exhausting, so it's easy to train. if you're doing monkey kung fu, there's a bunch of spinning and jumping so you get dizzy and tired fast, you have to take a little bit of a break every time you do it, not so with slt. play it like a song. over and over, don't stop and analyze your mistakes, that was the hardest thing for me. just fix them immediately and then do the form again perfectly. then once you get it perfect, find out how it's not perfect. start adding more and more power, and keep repeating that process. do it slow, do it fast. you'll get something a little different out of each.
do 1000 chainpunches several times a day. work on the hand drills, tan da's, pak da's, gan da's, those will all help to melt away that gap between your mind and body, so you can act instantaneously. if you can use a dummy, I'd be on that half the day, it's great. work on your footwork. you won't have someone to really push you around when your doing our kung fu like in chisau, if you know someone is going to push you it kind of ruins it. but get people to do what they can, so you can get the hang of dissapating and stuff, but just work harder on yourself and make your footwork handle it. advance with POWER and then do a 180 real fast and feel if you wobble or anything, then do some chainpunches or handdrills or something to take your mind off it and do it again, until you get more and more satisfied with the results. if you have a brother or something, tell him to sneak up on you anytime twice during the day and push or pull you and see how your body reacts. anyways I think I've said enough, and I hope this will help you out. you won't have a lot of the advantages that others will have, but I think you can accomplish a lot of the same thing you'll just have to try a little harder-- and that's an advantage for you. and you might find yourself with some extra strengths that most wingchunners never develop. good luck

--kevin