badmouthing belt system is a no no

[Zantesuken]

i know there are many black belt factories out there and to me there is basically one reason.

MA in general takes extreme cultivation to get to high levels. for external styles you have to train your body and you gotta to take the pain.

wushu for instance, if you're not flexible in the beginning you'll pain yourself until you are but in the end it's for your own good.

it's not that north american teachers are bad or it's their teaching methods. it's why they teach.

parents and people pay money to learn how to fight with tai chi, or fight with karate or fight with whatever. they don't pay for their kids to go get hurt cause in serious training there is always injury. so the reason is that kids and people who are no good but graduate to a high level have some skill but they don't have that kung fu below them as the basics and that's why.

so don't necessarily bad mouth black belt factories even though i don't htink much of them. gary is right in some respects that it can create ego driven environmnents but it is also a means of keeping track. for instance in wushu it's more about levels. since they're not learning to fight they develop the speed power and flexiblity and they can still be maybe a green sash?

so if you teach them fight theory and put them into a fight think of how powerful they can be?

[red_fists]

Shucks, there goes my favorite past-time.

Personally, I have nothing against the Belt/Sash/Rank structure as long as it is used and taught correctly.

I see one danger using it as well, that People become to focused on getting to the next level/belt/certificate, rather than trying to master the style/system.

Seen many a BB that can barely perform the first few Kata he learned as he only focuses on learning the new material.

How many people quit after sho-dan or 1st BB, as the goal seems to be sho-dan (Beginner rank).

This I think to a certain degree is responsible for the current trend to learn a few Systems and "mix & match" but none really well.
But I also see a place in modern society of BB-Factories, heck we are doing the same in nearly any other aspect of life.
Atleast the BB-Factories keep a lot of wannabees out of the serious Kwoons/Dojos.

Just my view.

[gazza99]

I see your point Z, however I have seen all to often the teacher doesnt care if the QUALITY of the techniques is present, or your skill level is high, they just want to see a semi-puppetted version of their forms. Then they can charge you for the next belt/belt stripe.

RE:"parents and people pay money to learn how to fight with tai chi, or fight with karate or fight with whatever. they don't pay for their kids to go get hurt cause in serious training there is always injury." ----First of all I do not teach kids! I teach adults! So they are well aware of any physical risk involved in whatever training they sign up for. Oh, and serious training does not mean you have to get hurt either. You can teach quality material to people and make them learn it correctly without seriously injuring them.

RE"so the reason is that kids and people who are no good but graduate to a high level have some skill but they don't have that kung fu below them as the basics and that's why"
Your english is a tad broken here so forgive me if I am misunderstanding your points. How can you graduate to a high level without a good understanding of the basics? That is the very reason I dispise these belt factories. People get so caught up in what rank they are going to make, they rush through the basics just to change the color, or number of stripes on their belt. Even if some of the students do not take this attitude, the others wearing rank may cause them to feel left behind, and therefore as a result rush their own training just out of a feeling of inadequacy or even a slight competitive nature.

Rank is simply a tool, a tool for the teacher to know what to teach to whom and when, and a tool for the student to know what they should be working on, and when. As Red Fists stated people focus so much on making the next belt, when they finnally get to black belt they think they are done, and that magically they can defend themselves regardless of their understandings of the basics.
"Badmouthing", as you put it, may lead to bruised egos, but people should be aware of the general degeneration of what it means to be a "black belt". these days.

and so endeth the rant.....:)
Kind regards,
Gary

[jon]

Im not sure exactly where your trying to go with this post.
Still ill add in my two worthless cents anyway:D

I dont really care about what others do and i can see some form of rank as a means of seperating the class and respecting your seniors as being productive but i CANT see how colored belts can be anything other than a bad thing.
To me they say nothing about a persons skill anymore, they are just what that particular club gives after a particular acomplishment. I have no idea what that acomplishment is...

I can only really see belts as a money making ideal. Really i cant understand how anyone can get past one basic truth. You are how good you are, you dont need a belt to prove it.

When i teach i will follow one of my sifus methods

Beguiner
advanced
closed door

Three ranks according to what the student is learning. Advanced will be students who are learning forms and closed will be those who are passing the system on.
Nothing fancy and nothing to promote ego or disrespect.


Silly joke
Whats the best kind of black belt you can get in self defence?
A seat belt:rolleyes:

[Hau Tien]

My Sifu uses a belt system, but it's not the focus of the training.

He also uses a division similar to the one described in the previous post... Beginner, Advanced, Closed Door.

I admit, there are many who join our school with the thought of simply breezing through the belts, getting a blackbelt, then quitting. Hell.. one of our yellow belts figured he was good enough to start his OWN style. Needless to say, it was quite amusing when he announced that in the middle of class.

Luckily, my Sifu is also very traditional. The people like the ones I describe above seldom make it past their yellow, due to the intense nature of the training. Basics are focused on and practiced diligently until the person can perform them almost without thought, and with excellent technique, power and speed. The same goes for forms, etc. Only then is a person even allowed to test for the next level.

Something interesting I also noted (Just my own observation... I could be wrong) that my Sifu doesn't charge for tests above the yellow level. I was surprised at that, but I'm guessing it is because quite a few people obtain their yellows, and some of them are like the people I described above. I'd likely do the same.

Anyway.. just my two cents:)

Hau Tien

[Ray Pina]

I don't care about the belt or the uninforms. Shoes or no shoes.

Cross hands, then there can be a judgement.