Has anyone heard of Chinwoo?

[londoner2001]

Have any of you heard of chinwoo kung fu it encorporates northern shaolin tam tui and other forms. Is this the style that is learnt in shaolin temple? What do you think of it, is it effective in the street, comments appreciated.

[Tekarius]

Hi,
Chinwoo is northern style from shanghai invented by Fok Yuen Gap. I think there is like a www.chinwoo.com


Tekarius

[firepalm]

Chinwoo is also called Ching Wu, Jing Wu, Jin Wu, Jing Wu, etc...
Tekarius is partially right, Chinwoo was a school started by Fok Yuen Gap (Bruce Lee's Chinese Connection / Fists of Fury & the Jet Li remake Fist of Legend are based on Fok's poisoning & revolve around the school). Chinwoo is not a style however but a school where several styles were taught. The principle style for Fok Yuen Gap was My Jong (Lost Track style, northern in origins). The school started in Shanghai prior to the communist takeover and eventually spread to other cities like Tianjin, Guangzhou & other parts of South East Asia like Hong Kong & Singapore. It is historically considered one of the most famous organized schools of the past century. While Chinwoo is not a style there are the Ten Chinwoo forms, which were pulled from various styles and became mandatory study for students of the school. Many prominent styles & their teachers taught out of Chinwoo or learned there, those styles included Eagle Claw Fan Tsi, Seven Star Praying Mantis, Tan Tuei (Spring Legs), etc...

Hope that helps a bit! :)

[Chinwoo-er]

Whatcha want to know ?

Acutally, there is a "Chinwoo Shaolin" style. Less than 100 years old mind you. Composed of various Changzhou Shaolin styles. As well as a few forms which were made up along the way. But to be honest, when chinwoo is involved, the distinction between styles gets really blurred.

One of the central core directive of Chinwoo is to not have a difference between schools. Just learn MA for it's principles and reasons. Chinwoo was set up so abandon the quarrals between the schools of the time. So everyone just gave and learnt what they could. There is a good point and a bad point in this. Good being rather obvious. Comprehensive martial arts training, people living more in peace, etc. Yet this kind of inspires a kind of a lack of loyalty for the style you "major" in. And there it lacks a sense of belonging. Considering how collectivist Chinese are, well you know how odd it might have felt in the time right ?

[NorthernShaolin]

londoner2001,


Huo Yuan Chia was the founder of Ching Wu Association (Jing Mo or Chin Woo) but his Chief Instructor, Chao Lin Ho, said it best in one of his lectures. (Chao Lin Ho was a master of Mi Tsung, Northern Shaolin, Tan Tui and Er Lang styles).

As the chief instructor, Chao Lin Ho developed a curriculum that would be regarded as the standard Ching Wu sets. In one of his lecture papers he wrote:

“Our Chinese Wu Shu (Martial Arts) is composed of many styles. Long ago, sifus were very selfish. They kept their own styles very secret, teaching no one their real kung fu except for a select few disciples. Eventually good styles died out. Huo Yuan Chia organized the Ching Wu Ti Yu Hui in Shanghai for the express purpose of creating a National Martial Arts free from stylistic jealousy and secrecy. Good techniques from the co-operating styles were grouped into ten Ching Wu hand and weapon sets. These ten sets will be the standard sets for our school.

1. Twelve Rows of Tam Tui
2. Gung Lic Kung (Work - Strength Fist)
3. Jeet Chuan (Weaving Fist)
4. Big Battle Fist
5. Eight Trigram Saber
6. Shepherding Staff
7. Five Tiger Spear
8. Tam Tui Sparring
9. Set Fist
10. Saber verses Spear

Within these ten sets are elements of numerous styles from throughout China. It does not stress one style over another nor any particular region. Those techniques which are considered good and useful were included. This program takes two years to complete. Any instructor who wishes to teach at the Ching Wu Physical Cultural Association must learn these ten sets.

Any student who completes the ten fundamental sets may proceed to other styles. The ten sets, in encompassing good elements of many styles, will give the student a knowledge of principles of Martial Arts in China.” In addition students who completed the program received an official Ching Wu Physical Cultural Association certificate and a banner with the three stars which were colored red, blue and yellow.

This fundamental idea by Chao Lin Ho was a major change in the way Chinese Martial Arts would be transmitted to the next generation. For the past hundreds of years, only the select few were allowed to learn the secrets of the Chinese martial arts. Traditional methods of passing the style to the next generation was about to be broken. A new way of thinking had to be developed or the Chinese martial arts would cease to exist. Since the Boxer Rebellion, the Chinese people lost complete faith in the martial arts. Chao Lin Ho made a bold and brave decision and showed other leaders that it was okay to challenge the traditional way of teaching, and a radical way of teaching needed to be developed or everything they knew which took two thousand years to developed, would collapse in less than a generation.

[Chinwoo-er]

Northern Shaolin
Well said.

Mind if I ask how far you are in learning the 10 ? Also, for your school, after you have learnt the 10, what do you progress to ?

[NorthernShaolin]

Chinwoo-er,

I've completed the 10 basic Ching Wu sets over 35 years ago.

The students at our school (called Jing Mo, USA) can progress to learn any of the following styles: Northern Shaolin, Northern Shaolin Lo han, Tai Chi Praying Mantis, Hsing-i (Sun Style), Tai Chi (Yang, Sun or Fu styles), or Fu Style Pa Kua. Currently we have three sifus who completed their studies at Jing Mo many, many years ago.

Now, how about you, Chinwoo-er. How long have you been in CMA and what is your speciality since you completed and passed the Jing Mo exams for the 10 basic sets?

[Chinwoo-er]

I never took any exams.

I never did like the concept of an exam. Here, when we have reached a certain level of compotence ( ie ten forms ) we could learn anything we want. So I find that my progress to be much more fulfilling when I am not traing for exams, but rather for my own advancement.

True, when you train for an exam, you will work much harder because there is something at stake, but I kind of find it better to train for the training itself. Besides, I work better like that/

So in a sense, you could say that I am in a lower position than any of your students who have taken an exam.

I currently major in Shaolin, Mantis and Wing Chun. But Monkey form is what I use to fight most.

Also, you talked about Shaolin Lohan, how about other branches of Shaolin ? also, any eagle claws ? Cause you see, Eagle claw seems to be the most popular here amoung the seniors. despite the fact that I don't favor it that much, I find it rather hard to believe that such an excellent style is neglected.

How about you ? Any particular favors from you ?

[Chinwoo-er]

isn't it a bit ironic that CHinwoo doesn't promote JMA alot ? i mean, considering their core value is MA for all, wouldn't you think that they will get rid of the distinction betwen JMA and CMA in their MA promotion effort ?

yeah I know how Chinwoo is a Chinese MA organisation, but still, considering their core values......paradox

[NorthernShaolin]

It is a cultural thing as it relates to the people being proud of its cultural and CMA is intergrated and weaved so much into the Chinese Cultural that it is hard to separate and extend it to another country such as Japan. There exist much resentment between the older Chinese towards the Japanese because of what the Japanese did to the common Chinese citizens when they invaded China during WW II. And, in general, Japan still likes to think of itself as a Nation of purity and stand alone country who does not really need any of the other Asia countries to be successful.

Jing Mo has its standards such as the 10 required sets which is pure CMA and a country like Japan would not accepted such conditions. They would rather set up their own conditions to promote their JMA. They just march to a different beat.

[NorthernShaolin]

As for me, you can read my profile. The older one gets the more one tends toward the internal aspects though.

As for Eagle Claw, yes, that is a very popular style in Jing Mo. Today most of the people who know Eagle Claw can trace their roots to the H.K. Jing Mo. We do not offer this style because we do not know it and our roots trace back to Canton's Jing Mo where Sun Yu Fung's Shaolin Lo Han was the big style.

However we do offer a few branch sets from various styles such as Lui Ho, Ch'a, Seven Star Praying Mantis, Mi Tsung, Mi Tsung Lo Han, etc., only as to offer the students a different flavor. We are not experts in these styles so we do not have a large curriculumn on these branches.

If one enters our school and wants to learn Eagle Claw, we refer them to the local popular Eagle Claw school, run by SIfu Lilly Lau, who is affilated with Jing Mo in H.K.

[Tainan Mantis]

Northern Shaolin
In Tien Jing was a PM master named Wang Yifu. He did Lohan PM. I have an article he wrote in the 20's and am trying to get more info on who he was and who taught him.
Can you help?

[Chinwoo-er]

Do you know of any Chinwoo schools in Sydney or Vancourver ?

Also, from where you teach, is the shaolin branchs of Baji, Piqua, Hun Jei and Yi Long taught ?

[NorthernShaolin]

Chinwoo-er,

'Do you know of any Chinwoo schools in Sydney or Vancourver ?'

Sorry but I do not think there are any Jing Mo schools at these locations.

As for the different styles...
Adam Hsu teaches Baji and Piqua and I sure Yilong is taught around here too but I can't remember who or where. I do not know about Hun Jei.

Tainan Mantis,

There were so many PM masters. The name do not ring a bell but if I had the Chinese characters perhaps it would help. One of the best resource that I have is the book in Chinese called 'China's Wu Shu Great Dictionary', 1990; ISBN 7-5009-0463-0. It is a hard brown cover book. Do you have access to this book in Taiwan? This book cost about $40 USD in the States.

This is a great book on CMA history, different traditional styles, names of sets, weapons, masters (what they knew and who they learned from), famous schools and famous MA books. This book is over 600 pages of information. Perhaps Wang Yifu is in there. I'll do the best I can and look for his name but it takes me a long time to go thru all the names because the characters are in the simplified form.

[diego]

im in vancouver bc, how can i find this book to order?.
Thanks

[NorthernShaolin]

diego,

Try this:

East Wind Book Store and Arts, Inc
1435 Stockton St.
San Francisco, ca 94133
English phone:415-772-5899
Fax 415-722-5885
e-mail: info@eastwindsf.com
website:www.eastwindsf.com

I try the website first then the e-mail. The last time I was there (2 weeks ago) there were three copies.

Good luck.

[Tainan Mantis]

NorthernShaolin,
I have a book called Zhong -Guo Wu -Shu Shr- Yung Da -Chuen
This may not be the book you mentioned as it rarely mentions anyone's name.

Wang Yifu
Wang-king
Fu- as in kung fu

Yi- is not so common. It means determined. As in Yi li-determination

4th tone 15 strokes.

His article is a commentary on Sheng Shao Dao Ren from 1700's. Many northern styles, especially Lohan trace lineage to him. He is the one who wrote the original text in Wong Hunfun(Huang Hanhsun) 18 Lohan gung book.

Hope that helps

[NorthernShaolin]

Okay, I'll give it a try.

[jon]

"Do you know of any Chinwoo schools in Sydney or Vancourver"
*If you mean Sydney Australia then actualy yes there is!
Ive met with one of there instructors and he is also a student of my sifu in Tai Chi but i dont know a LOT about what they do there.
I have seen a few forms performed by them though including
Tam Tui and Jeet Kune.
Just thought i would let you know there is indeed a Sydney branch :)

[Chinwoo-er]

thanks jon
do you know the address of the place ? Or at least suburb it is in ?

thanks again