Buddhas Finger Points Way Ahead

[scotty1]

Buddha's finger points way ahead
By Michael Bristow in Taipei

SEALED inside a miniature golden pagoda and
guarded by 40 Kung fu experts, the remains of what
is believed to be one of the Buddha's fingers is
drawing vast crowds in Taiwan and moving many
adults to tears.

Hundreds of thousands of people have turned out to
view the 2,500-year-old relic, which has been loaned by Famen Temple near Xian in China, where it was discovered after a flood in 1981.

The finger's Taiwan tour is being hailed as a great religious event on an island that has undergone a Buddhist revival over recent years. Taiwan now has about four million Buddhists.

But for some, the relic has a wider significance. Many see the finger as a symbol of peace between China and Taiwan, which have been at loggerheads since the end of China's civil war in 1949.

Hsin Yun, a Buddhist Master said: "I hope that it will help purify people's spirits . . . and bring peace to cross-Strait relations."

Cool huh?

[diego]

What are you implying 40kungfu masters are only good for gaurding a finger, i find this very offensive; *****
why dont you go back where you came from!.





the mma forums:)



im eating soup and thiers a cool radio show on so i felt like joshin ya, is this real?.

[scotty1]

I really hope you're joking Diego, I posted that from an English online newspaper becuase I thought some people here might find it interesting.

Tell me you're joking...

[Repulsive Monkey]

I concurr with you. I have only read a partial segment of the story, but I too hope Diego is joking too, or prehaps his impropriety is directly related to his not recognising the significance of the event.

[diego]

im eating soup and thiers a cool radio show on so i felt like "joshin"ya, is this real?.

I guess yall aint got proper english over thier so close to england, i siad i was joshing you, anyone know where the term joshing came from, obviously not.

It does sound funny to, 40kungfu masters, why not cia or kgb; kinda cheeze no.

[Tae Li]

cool story....if it is a sign to bring peace between China and Taiwan i hope it works.

seems to have touched many people:)

wheres Prana? he will def have something worthwhile to say about this.\



Tae Li;)

[jon]

errr please tell me im not the only sceptic wondering how a finger found in a flood during the 80s somehow managed to become 'Buddhas finger'? I mean did it have his name written on it or something?
Surely this is just a LITTLE odd to someone other than me?
I also see Diegos point its pretty weird to have fourty 'kung fu guys' gaurding this sacred finger. Surely a couple of dudes armed with m16s armour peircing ammo and bullet proof vests would do a much better job?
Im not saying we kung fu guys cant do some matrix insipred stunts, i know i dodge bullets reguarly but i still cant help but think for THIS job - i would have picked the army.

Im sceptical of Buddhas finger does that make me evil?

[scotty1]

Didn't read the bit about joshing, thought it was your sig. :)
Sorry for jumping the gun, I thought it was a bit weird you were calling me a troll.

And by the way, we invented "joshing".

:cool:

[Repulsive Monkey]

I concurr with Scotty, to josh, comes straight out of English history books, approximately 17th century probably earlier. By the way Diego why is it you ask us about whether we know our english or not, when your sentences are strewn with mis-spellings all over the shop????

No malice intended, just rueful mirth...

[Ray Pina]

Cool Story, but...
Someone finds an old finder in 1981 and it has to b the Budhha's? This sort of thing always makes me squeemish.

But if it makes people happy, feel peace, even bring peace, then its all good.

[guohuen]

I think it's a cool story althought the finger is probably as authentic as the relics in catholic alters. (not) The English can lay claim to joshing, (Josh is probably p*ssed by now) but we norte americanos can lay claim to shucking and jiving.:D
I really love the story of "The Finger". I mean the real finger.

[Budokan]

Hey, I need some of those kung fu guys to come to my house and protect Buddha's peni$ that I found.

Any of you want to volunteer...?:)

[Felipe Bido]

Only if the "Buddha's Pen¡s" you found wasn't still attached to you, Budokan :D

[GreyMystik]

you don't EVEN wanna know where it WAS found ;)

[Chinwoo-er]

yes, it is true to only a certain extent.

First, it is true that one of the most important buddhist relic is being displayed in Taiwan. And yes it is true that several ( forgot the number ) of "kung fu monks" are indeed guarding it.

However..........

a few things needs correcting. these monks, although are quite "advance" in the wushu standard, are but symbolic. They serve as a kind "actor" for the buddhist guards in legends or stories. Sure, they may indeed "fight" if something does get out of hand, but the main bulk of the security are acutally provided by the Taiwan Government. And yeah, they are people armed with MP5s with bullet prove vests and all kinds of high-tech gagets and training.
for what it's worth, the container of the relic is bullet proof.

2nd, it is not a "finger". I am certain the translater here has made a mistake. It is more like a small hard, marble-like object. If was supposed to be found in the stomach of the buddha. These are not rare to find really. People who have lived on a buddhist diet all their lives will normally have them. Don't know the medical reason. But alot of monks has them. When the bodies are cremated, these the normally the things which survives the fire. Hence, it is said to contain all the intellegence of the owner. And would only develop if the monk is exceptionally gifted ( questionable claim, but thats buddist mysticism. ). Since this one was from Buddha himself, well, the religous significance is imaginable. Maybe matchable only by things like the holy grail or something like that.

[Ray Pina]

In the end the important Buddha is the one inside us all trying to peak out

[KC Elbows]

My inner buddha peaked out a long time ago.

Right now, my inner Lenny Bruce is ascending.

[Sharky]

My inner John Holmes is always present.

[Sharky]

All 6 of them.

[KC Elbows]

My inner Brian Dennehy has been looking for work since the eighties.

I'm worried, cause in a few millenium, I'm not sure I'll be able to find even one guy to guard the pollyp of my inner Ronald Reagan.

What's the karma for hijacking Buddha's thread? At least I know he won't hate me.

[Sharky]

I'm going to be reincarnated as a dung beetle anyway.

My comments on the wing chun forum will take care of that.

Everybody seems to hate me on that forum. Oh well, i think most of them are knowledgeless, stuck up, stupid fu.cks anyway.

[ewallace]

I'm going to be reincarnated as a dung beetle anyway.
Better than a turtle.

[Mutant]

so china has given taiwan 'the finger'?!?
sounds consistent...

[Sharky]

Are we going to start cussing turtles again now?

Cos you know i won't stand for it.

[GeneChing]

Interesting post scotty1, who would have guessed that the ensuing thread would have gone this direction? The forum never ceases to amaze me. :rolleyes: I would love to mknow more about the "kungfu monks." I'm told the Dalai Lama has an elite guard of fighting monks too, sort of a symbolic tradition that has been passed down for generations. Man, that comes straight out of a comic book, doesn't it? Still, it gives one pause to think that such things do exist in our world today. Buddhist relics are pretty common. Most of them are not guarded very well. Buddhists aren't really protective in that way - it's part of the impermence philosophy. I remember when a sand mandala was destroyed at the Asian art museum in SF by some fanatical Christian woman. she jumped into the middle of it screaming about the devil. The museam people were aghast, but the monks thought it was fine. It's all impermanent anyway. The authenticity of relics is always an issue, especially in China, but that's not the point. It's the reverence. Look at the moon, not the finger - Bruce Lee lifted that concept from Buddha.

[KC Elbows]

In defense of those of us who are maturity impaired, I would like to point out that buddha wouldn't want us taking his finger too seriously.

And anyways, what is the difference? The turtle, the dung beetle, Brian Dennehy, the six parts of John Holmes. It is all part of the same whole.

Now back to the serious discussion of the finger/abdomen lump of buddha.

[JWTAYLOR]

I know a dude named Buddha
Buddha was a dude
Rompin through old China
Eating all their food.

Pretty good eh?

JWT

[TjD]

in fact, im pretty sure the buddha didnt want anything :)


still, anything conducive to less suffering for the people involved is good in my book


peace
trav

[Sharky]

Our posts were very relevant. Those of you who do not see that clearly cannot see the whole. You are too ignorant. Empty your cups. Be like a willow tree.

Maybe one day you will see "the way".

[KC Elbows]

If you but contemplate JWT's rhyme for a year, you will have come closer to enlightenment.

This is the lesson of buddhas finger, or abdomen lump, whichever it is.

[ewallace]

Rhymes suck.

[diego]

why is it you ask us about whether we know our english or not, when your sentences are strewn with mis-spellings all over the shop????


Because as i said i'm eating soup"plus this keyboard is missing most the lettering on the keys, so im typing like i just learned to"
plus im in a good mood so im joshin ya.

[diego]

""""2nd, it is not a "finger". I am certain the translater here has made a mistake. It is more like a small hard, marble-like object. If was supposed to be found in the stomach of the buddha. These are not rare to find really. People who have lived on a buddhist diet all their lives will normally have them. Don't know the medical reason. But alot of monks has them. When the bodies are cremated, these the normally the things which survives the fire. Hence, it is said to contain all the intellegence of the owner. And would only develop if the monk is exceptionally gifted ( questionable claim, but thats buddist mysticism. ). Since this one was from Buddha himself, well, the religous significance is imaginable. Maybe matchable only by things like the holy grail or something like that."""""

[DelicateSound]

If this "ball" isn't a ball of anthrax I'll eat my inner **** Van Dyke.


:)

[DelicateSound]

Maybe it's actually Hitler's missing testicle. [From the British 1940's rhyme!]


And the above post says D i c k Van Dyke.


My inner Leslie Nielsen also says hi.

[Colin]

So if the lump is left after cremation, it must be something like a gall stone, or kidney stone.ie, crystallised calcium.

However if the relic is a part of Buddha, then we could extract his DNA, and clone the Buddha back to life!
That would really mess with reincarnation!

[KC Elbows]

Not really. It would be only the flesh of buddha. The spirit would not necessarily be the same. It could as much be the spirit of Brian Dennehy occupying the flesh of buddha.

[prana]

Originally posted by Sharky
I'm going to be reincarnated as a dung beetle anyway.

My comments on the wing chun forum will take care of that.

Everybody seems to hate me on that forum. Oh well, i think most of them are knowledgeless, stuck up, stupid fu.cks anyway.

BS! You're cool mate :) Dont sweat it, we dont hate you, err at least I don't

[prana]

Originally posted by GeneChing
Interesting post scotty1, who would have guessed that the ensuing thread would have gone this direction? The forum never ceases to amaze me. :rolleyes: I would love to mknow more about the "kungfu monks." I'm told the Dalai Lama has an elite guard of fighting monks too, sort of a symbolic tradition that has been passed down for generations. Man, that comes straight out of a comic book, doesn't it? Still, it gives one pause to think that such things do exist in our world today. Buddhist relics are pretty common. Most of them are not guarded very well. Buddhists aren't really protective in that way - it's part of the impermence philosophy. I remember when a sand mandala was destroyed at the Asian art museum in SF by some fanatical Christian woman. she jumped into the middle of it screaming about the devil. The museam people were aghast, but the monks thought it was fine. It's all impermanent anyway. The authenticity of relics is always an issue, especially in China, but that's not the point. It's the reverence. Look at the moon, not the finger - Bruce Lee lifted that concept from Buddha.

Yo Gene, good to see you here ;)

The Dalai Lama is protected by the wrathful aspect of the thousand-armed Chenrezig. The last and final aspect of this wrathful nature was given by Amitabha, when his head split. THe story is that, the the Boddisattva Chenrezig (Avalokitashevra) saw that all his efforts put together, and the worlds suffering is getting worst and worst, and he cried and his head split into many pieces. Amitabha saw what has happened and told him not to become upset and to persist, and put his head back into 10 and the last one being the wrathful for the very difficult to discipline.

Edit : I forget, different parts of northern India have different "Boddhisattvas" to protect them, but as you say, they tend to have a wrathful nature, but that is ONLY to pacify mara...



The mandala is a very symbolic giving off oneself to the Buddhas. Before one receives initiation to anuyoga, a monk will have to symbolise inner giving of all aspects of his life, and when the mandala is finally complete, the whole thing is blseed and thrown into the sea, a form of Puja. This is of course symbolic of destroying all attachment to worldly self. I hope that answers your questions.

For the monks, I can almost guarantee that the woman is "seen" as karmic fruition of impurities that was present in the monks, and the woman is here to destroy all aspects of ones past bad deeds. In this way, the monks will actually be thankful and see her as a wonderful teacher, the kindest one, do you know what I mean ?

Hope I havent gone too far out of line.

Oh yeah, relics are common amongst the many Buddhists, the last great Relic was left my the 16 Karmapa during his passing, his heart was unable to be burnt and is treasured.

[prana]

Originally posted by Colin
However if the relic is a part of Buddha, then we could extract his DNA, and clone the Buddha back to life!
That would really mess with reincarnation!

no not really. Even if someone is able to "clone" a Buddha, it is not the empty body that is of importance, for it is just the body. The soul would have left the Brahman aperture. The only way it would "come" back alive is another consciousness has entered through one of its gates.... then it would be a completely different being altogether.

Better put my flame suit on, I can feel a lot of people are going to step all over my words [Flame Suit activated]

[KC Elbows]

This all has the making of a great B-flick.

Anyway, I've never been one for relics, but in a way I can understand the fascination. Anything to remind of the teachings of great men. I guess any reminder is a good one.

[Sho]

Originally posted by diego
When the bodies are cremated, these the normally the things which survives the fire. Hence, it is said to contain all the intellegence of the owner.My grandfather had one, which was found during the funeral. The priest indicated that it's the Buddha. However the funeral was Shintoist, because my grandfather told that a Buddhist funeral has too long ceremonies.

[Leonidas]

So their worshipping a fossilized veggie lump? Why do people always play with dead petrified fleshy parts. Mummies, frozen Norselanders, bogmen............that stuff always freaked me out.

[Sharky]

prana: i love you too honey.

the rest of you: i wish you would open your eyes and see the truth that is staring you blindly in the face.

[scotty1]

Eh?:confused:

[Sharky]

*heh*

[scotty1]

Huh?

[JWTAYLOR]

Hey Scotty1, why do you think all Texans suck?

Jon Wayne Taylor, a proud son the Lone Star State

[JWTAYLOR]

Come on, you changed your signature from "Texans suck" to "senior member".

I want to know exactly why you think I suck.


JWT

[KC Elbows]

JWT, Scotty, Buddha is giving both of you the finger.

This has to be the strangest thread of the week.

Are people getting along on the "Hitler" thread?

Is there serious discussion going on in the "PeeWee Herman" thread?

Perhaps women's issues are being discussed on the thread titled "ATTN: Stacey"

[scotty1]

See 'Racist Texans Suck?' for explanations of the above.

I have started the two most excellent threads of the week.

See you Tuesday!

[GeneChing]

...never thought we'd get here from there. This thread has become one big koan and I still would like to hear more about the original topic. Do you have any more information on it?

As for the buddhist stone, that's a new one on me. If anyone can send me some documentation on this, I'd love to read it.

I've never been into relics that much. Actually, there is supposed to be a relic at the nunnery just outside Shaolin, but I'm pretty skeptical. One of the nuns told me that with a weird wink in her eye like she was letting me in on somekind of secret. She didn't know me from kasyapa, so it can't that much of a secret really.

But the conept of buddhist warrior monks runs pretty deep in both buddhism and MA - I like to think of it as a vajra/majushri trip, very symbolic, very tantric, yet also an important means of practice. And I love hearing tales of warrior monks like the one that started this thread. How we got to hitler from there, well, I guess there's a herrigal connection, but moreso it's the magic of the forum.

[KC Elbows]

Actually, I have a book at home on Tibetan Buddhism, and at one point, the book discusses the progression of history, how to some it is all moving to enlightenment. Anyway, to book claimed that some believe that Hitler was actually a reincarnated buddha taken form so that no other would have to take the karma of being Hitler.

Pretty crazy. I don't know about that one, but what do I know??

[diego]

he was vegetarian but loved pastrie's, and he loved to sew with the generals in his armys wives and mothers, like a good lil *****, plus he looks like a cross between a pygmie&dr.spock, with that likkl sleaze curl described as his receding hairline; funnyiest is he was all about reppn the blondhair blueeyed devil?, when he was partjewish looking like a mix between a pygmie&dr.spock, whats that about, agian what a ***, he's like the ugly snotnosed girl bucktoothed wobblekneed from class, who try's to play dress up like the boppervalley broads?!:)

Sucker prolly wore his moms roo's, reciting his holocaust speeche's... what a ***"not ****sexual, for those like that, but like a brucelee villian sidekick....also he was into black magic, and those guys from that era like crowley total pedo-***'s.:confused: :)


one thing that interests me, is the natives of america i cant remember the name but that one prophecy about a whitedevil? will come and destroy the nations, like a hundred years before columbo hit?, you people know this, they talk something about the whitebuffallo?!>

[GeneChing]

That's fascinating. Leave it to the tibetans to spin something like that. Tibetan Buddhism has the darkest gods - yama, mahakala - chekc out my e-zine Shaolin Trips piece for more on that. Actually Chinese buddhist hell is pretty hectic too. It's really hard to concieve evil of Hitler's magnitude. There's something so visceral, like our reaction to Bin Laden now. At the same time, I think it's very important for those of us on the warrior path to study their actions. It gives us perspective about what we are really fighting about. And to consider that while Hitler's holocaust killed some 6 million Jews, Japan's holocaust killed some 30 million Chinese, and how much do we hear about that? So there is a lot of perspective involved. But to turn such evil into good, well, the tibetans specialize in that. Many of their holy items are made from the bones of criminals - something about reversing karma. Martial arts is killing arts - in the same way, we must reverse that negative energy into positive.

And Deigo, I love your posts but half the time I can't really tell what you're saying...:D

[KC Elbows]

Diego,
I love the bit about "bruce lee villain sidekick g@y". At first, it went right over my head, and then I remembered the bad dubbing for that character(archetype? Seems common in asian movies).

Gene,
I agree on the importance for martial arts(or anyone, really) to understand the character of truly villainous people. I personally tend to feel that as good as a person can be, they could also be that evil. History is full of people who you look at and say "If they had made this one change in their life choices, they would have been a great person, but they didn't".

One thing I see in martial arts; There are a large number of people who do not get into violent altercations, not because they do not have violence inside them, but because they lack the capability to cause physical harm. In martial arts, one gains that capability, and so must deal directly with their own violence, or trouble will come of it.