How come high ranking Wing Chun and other kung fu masters get taken down at will [Archive]

red_fists

03-27-2002, 05:34 PM

While I am failry neutral on the subject. I would like to point out the following.

Many so called "Masters" are actually self-styled and not of that high a level.

Also look at half the Guys that call themselves Sifu XXX, Soke XXX, Dai Soke(???) XXX, GrandMaster XXX, etc.

What's with all that??
If you got true skill you don't need to advertise it nor do you need to proof it in a ring. Why??
Because, it should not matter to anybody besides yourself.

If you need to proof that you are good, look again at the reasons why you do MA and you might find some surprising facts about your own personality\motivation and ego.

This of course is different for professional fighters.

Furthermore, each TMA were designed to work against a certain Opponent under a given circumstance/surrounding.
So if you take them out of that circumstance/surrounding, they will loose their efficiency.

Also a lot of unarmed MA were designed as a backup fighting style in case the fighter lost/broke his Weapon/s. Especially true for MA that were taught to the Military.
Kinda like H2H training in a modern Army, Soldiers should never get into a H2H situation.

I see the UFC, Pride MMA as the same, totaly effective and efficient in their competition surrounding, but will degrade under other circumstances.

Just my 2 Yen worth.

sunstylin

03-27-2002, 05:38 PM

I find it very strange that you agree with someone that supplies no evidence about these Gung-Fu masters!:cool:

sunstylin

03-27-2002, 05:42 PM

I agree

Zantesuken

03-27-2002, 05:44 PM

red_fists.

that's not true for all masters. there are some very traditional cma masters who were grandmasters such as yip man for wing chun. i think if a sifu really does have quite a large following of students then he is good. not only a good person but also good in ma.

SifuAbel

03-27-2002, 05:46 PM

This thread wins the

http://www.sdplastics.com/dedhorse.gif

dead horse award for outstanding generalization and incredible myopia.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 05:47 PM

One Point I forgot in my last Post.

A Person of true fighting skill, knows his limitations & Strength and thus will avoid a fight that favors a lot of those limitations.

For me this is not a sign of weakness or poor style, but rather as a sign of a wise and true Fighter.

Again, just my opinion.

sunstylin

03-27-2002, 05:58 PM

do you beleave that Gung-Fu is effective against UFC fighters? Do you beleave that Gung-Fu masters will get their arse's kicked by wrestlers and Juijitsu fighters as stated by Ma Fanatic!

sunstylin

03-27-2002, 06:00 PM

I strongly disagree with Ma Fanatics statement!

jon

03-27-2002, 07:40 PM

sunstylin
I read the thread
I dont think you have provided any valid arguement to MA fanatics points at all. If anything you have just come accross as yet another cma who has never tested there art and has little idea about how to actualy apply it.
I dont LIKE the UFC and i wouldnt go in it myself but im not stupid enough to judge the others who sweat blood on the floor to make themselfs better fighters, nor would i wish to cross hands with any of them.

I would stop dropping names on that thread to, i know of half the people you mention and would seriously question your ties to any of them judging by your comments.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 07:49 PM

Zantesuke.

Reread, my Post.

It never stated ALL.

Yip Man was a GrandMaster, but did he call himself so or was the title bestoyed by his Peers??

SifuAbel.

Why does your screename include "Sifu"??
Why do you want anybody to know that you are a Sifu??

If you are a true "Sifu" People will recognise the fact from your Posts and thus you don't need to include it in your Screenname.

Sharky

03-27-2002, 07:54 PM

I think im falling in love with old jong.

Rolling Elbow

03-27-2002, 08:02 PM

I think it is a matter of something being lost in the translation... for some odd reason, there is this tendency in wing chun to refuse to lose the center line even for a second. I mean, from the short Emin-Cheung tape, you see one man rushing and the other standing, unwilling to retreat, position himself and resume. Now I am not talking huge leaps and bounds.., I am talking about realizing that once someone is past your hands. If that is all you know, you are f$#ked. Surely wing chun did not base its principles solely on doing nothing else then trap to clinch.

I personally beleive that a true master would A. Not be surprised regardless of his age, and B. use a "slippery" floor as an excuse BECAUSE he/she would know that on the streets or battlefield there are no such things as prime conditions, 100% efective techniques, or dictated terms of engagement.

There are masters in their 70's who do not fit the label "old man" . Cheung was in his 60s (if that), age is not an excuse. Speed fades as one gets older.. a master is an individual who adapts the art to himself as he evolves. Saying wing chun is only a game of speed is in my opinion, not doing it justice. Who knows..maybe Bruce did breathe some light into Wing chun because he forced people to reevaluate the art and learn to move beyond its chi-sao games and "you'll always win of the center line, don't lose the center line, you are screwed if you lose the center line". (and yes i know bruce agreed with the center line..i am merely using him as an example)

"Masters" who only train one range should be sure that they know the LIMITATIONS of that range. If they do..they'd probably know better than to get in a ring, grapple, or clinch. "Master" is after all, mastery of what it is you are learning. IF you master the hands, you qualify....just a word.

Black Jack

03-27-2002, 08:06 PM

Maybe, just maybe because the attacker does not care what the title of the person is, that titles are just that...titles, fights are non-baised, master, grandmaster, uber-master, if you do not train for that situation you will be at a disadvantage, even then their are other things to consider.

Any body can get their ass whooped.

SifuAbel

03-27-2002, 08:53 PM

Sun,

The statement is mute. To say one body of knowledge is equal to one man's ability is misleading. The only thing that really counts is individual ability. If the person in question has a mastery over himself then you can only measure that against the opponent.

The question stands; who exactly gets "taken down at will"? I'd like to know.

Red,

Is your name so much more humble than mine? Don't be stupid.

I have that in my name because my teacher saw it fit for me to have the title. If you don't like it, take it up with my teacher. If you think a person using their rank in a cybername is fake, that's your issue not theirs. I think after 20 years, in the same school, I deserve it. I leave it in because this is a Martial arts forum and I represent my school as a teacher. Whether or not you like me or agree with me is not a concern of mine. And, I don't have to prove JACK to you.

Why should I hide it? I'm being honest.

Better yet, why DO YOU hide it? Are you not a teacher? Have you not been training for 23 years? Are you on the same level, experience wise, from someone that started 6 months ago?

Why should a teacher play a poussyfoot game around the fact that they are a teacher? When I meet teachers in person, I am not so arrogant as to call them by their first name just because they don't practice my style or if I feel their system isn't "effective" enough. This board has NEVER exibited ANY respect to those who teach. For the most part, this board is filled with know-it-all petulant children that get off on being anonymous.

I am NOT anonymous, I AM a teacher.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 09:05 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuAbel
Is your name so much more humble than mine? Don't be stupid.

My Name is humble and a joke for people that know me.

Got it actually while painting a Roof and had "Red Hands" afterwards.
My GF at that time than mentioned that I now had true "Red Fists" as I was studying some Hong Quan at that time.

I have that in my name because my teacher saw it fit for me to have the title. If you don't like it, take it up with my teacher. If you think a person using their rank in a cybername is fake, that's your issue not theirs. I think after 20 years, in the same school, I deserve it. I leave it in because this is a Martial arts forum and I represent my school as a teacher. Whether or not you like me or agree with me is not a concern of mine. And, I don't have to prove JACK to you.

Sifu is was a Student calls his Teacher, unless you can now claim Sifu as a profession on your Income Tax.

"Sifu" is an honorific term used as a sign of respect and thus never used by one to refering self.

Better yet, why DO YOU hide it? Are you not a teacher? Have you not been training for 23 years? Are you on the same level, experience wise, from someone that started 6 months ago?

No, I am not a Teacher.
Yes, I have been studying MA for 23 yrs.

Does that make me better than a new Student, no, it only means I went down further the MA road than he has.

Why should a teacher play a poussyfoot game around the fact that they are a teacher? When I meet teachers in person, I am not so arrogant as to call them by their first name just because they don't practice my style or if I feel their system isn't "effective" enough.

Why should I call ANYONE a Teacher /Sifu when I don't learn from him or have no relation to him??
They are simply MR. X to me.

This board has NEVER exibited ANY respect to those who teach. For the most part, this board is filled with know-it-all petulant children that get off on being anonymous.

Aren't all Online Boards like that??

Merryprankster

03-27-2002, 09:05 PM

SifuAbel,

Here's one for you: I happen to agree with most everything you said.

Although I don't believe that a teacher deserves my immediate respect... but that's an issue for another day :)

SifuAbel

03-27-2002, 09:19 PM

Red,

You should, beacuse they are somebody's teacher. I would like you to go into a Dojo in japan and NOT call the sensei by his title. I bet you'd get your ass beat. Or at least you would be treated with disfavor and lose face. It shows you are not a teacher. It shows you have no respect for anyone. It shows you are arrogant and self absorbed. You should research more before you make fun of red fists.
Yes, the internet is like that and you are taking full advantage. You need not reply.

Merry,

That is a major flaw in your character. Not to respect a person because you think they are inferior to you. Not to show respect is to not respect the body he/she represents. Which is bigger than both of you.

Merryprankster

03-27-2002, 09:30 PM

I don't really understand where you decided that I believed others were "inferior" to me, considering I said nothing of the sort. Nor did I even IMPLY it. Please don't put words in my mouth.

What I said, essentially, is that a teacher doesn't deserve my respect automatically. They have to earn it just like everybody else.

By the same token, I expect to have to earn their respect as a dedicated student.

I will approach him or her exactly as I approach anybody else--with the respect due any other human I might meet. Until I am shown otherwise, that's what they get.

Now, if you are discussing DISPLAYS of respect, that is a different issue. I would never walk into a school and behave as an arrogant *****, suggest other ways of doing things, disobey the instructors wishes, challenge students or teachers, or refuse to participate in any ceremonial procedures they might have etc. That's simply bad manners.

I'm in the military and I liken it to that very much. I might have to obey and behave in a respectful manner to a senior, because that is appropriate behavior. HOWEVER, whether or not that person has MY respect is dependant on personal qualities that have nothing to do with their rank.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 09:31 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SifuAbel
You should, beacuse they are somebody's teacher. I would like you to go into a Dojo in japan and NOT call the sensei by his title. I bet you'd get your ass beat. Or at least you would be treated with disfavor and lose face.

1.) The Term "Sensei" does NOT mean
Instructor or Teacher.
It literally means "The one that has gone before".

But is used as an honorific for showing respect to people that are older, have more experience and other factors.
Better YOU study some Japanese Customs before replying and trying to correct people.

In Japan I also refer to my Doctor as "Sensei" or anbody else with specialised knowledge.

It shows you are not a teacher. It shows you have no respect for anyone.

I show respect to People that earned it.
And by your last 2 Posts you have shown that you deserve very little.

It shows you are arrogant and self absorbed. You should research more before you make fun of red fists.

When did I make fun of "Red Fists"??
But than I guess anything I will say will get you worked up.
Great emotion control for an MA Teacher.
Also a very nice role model for the newer MA Students here.

Yes, the internet is like that and you are taking full advantage. You need not reply.

Oooh, did I hit a sensitive Button.

Funny, most Guys that use screen names like you react the same way to the same question.

Makes me wonder why.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 09:42 PM

Merryprankster.

I am with you on the aspect of giving
"respect".

Respect is something that needs to be earned and is not given or assumed automatically.

And, yes, I will show respect when required in a specific setting.

red_fists

03-27-2002, 09:49 PM

SifuAbel.

As for me being "anonymous".

Lets see my Profile shows more details and Info about me than does yours about you.

I got nothing to hide. How about you??

Plus, I never claimed any high skill/knowledge in any of the Arts I learned, nor do I expect to be respected by a few Online personalities.

Nor do I think that my Posts will have any significant impact on any people I might meet online.

But, yes, I know I am arrogant and don't respect anybody.
Why I don't teach?
Hmm, there are a few reason:
1.) Don't want to.
2.) Haven't reached a high enough level in some arts to be qualified to teach.3.) Been traveling on Business and moving between Countries a bit.
No need to reply. We don't want your Blood pressure to go up.

bamboo_ leaf

03-27-2002, 10:21 PM

I always thought respect began with ones self, humbleness and all the other higher attributes IMO are things within. people can see this in a person.

Screen names funny things they can say a lot or very little about the poster, it’s the words that go with the name that I find interesting.

what happened to the org topic ;)

red_fists

03-27-2002, 10:26 PM

Bamboo Leaf.

Original Topic got boring.

Mouth-Fu more fun, but looks like my sparring partner decided to quit.

Ok, we now return you to your scheduled programming.

SifuAbel

03-28-2002, 01:00 AM

Red:"Great emotion control for an MA Teacher."

What emotion? I feel no emotion toward you. You are less significant to me now than you were 2 posts ago. Any emotion you percieve is a self reflection.

I know what sensei means.
It shows you have no respect for "those who have gone before". That's the point. lost face.

Merry,

You are confusing respect with ability. Your words have betrayed you. Your sense of respect is fake. Outward displays for politness are fake.
Respect is an attitude.
It has no condition. You can murder a man, hate him or wage war and still act with respect.
This is something which is evident to me now.

Note: I am cold saying this, there is no emotion to cling to. Nothing to imply.

red_fists

03-28-2002, 01:09 AM

What emotion? I feel no emotion toward you. You are less significant to me now than you were 2 posts ago. Any emotion you percieve is a self reflection.

So, why do you keep replying than.
Got a point to proof, need to show you are the better man??

Methinks, you got an confidence problem and need to proof yourself.
Hence the "Sifu" in your screenname and the petty insults.

I know what sensei means.
It shows you have no respect for "those who have gone before". That's the point. lost face.

Actually, it shows how little you really know about Japanese Culture and btw your record is stuck.
:D

BTW, if I am so insignifcant put me on your "ignore" list, I don't care either way.

Have a good one, Oo great One.

scotty1

03-28-2002, 01:56 AM

I think MA Fanatic should provide us with examples of which masters have been taken down at will so that we can analyse the specific details of the beat downs.

Without this info we are all just speculating.

Abel - I'm suprised you still come here. I'm sure there was a thread about 4 months ago where you said you were never coming back because you were sick of the levels of immaturity, or something like that.

SifuAbel

03-28-2002, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by scotty1

Abel - I'm suprised you still come here............

......me too.

Repulsive Monkey

03-28-2002, 04:21 AM

I think MA Fanatic is reffering to the one and only example he has which is the dubious one of Wiiliam Cheung, and I feel that issue has already been covered on these pages severla times before. I have sent messages to MA Fanatic, and have to say that the fanatic bit is probably closer to the truth than anything. That implying that like most fanatics they are intrinsically un blalanced as in fanatcism. He feels that his couple of years in studying Wing Chung was all that was needed and that he needed no more, therefore cross-training and UFC are the way forward. However each to his/her own. Experience usually does dictate to us all which direction we think is best to go in. Yet the ego rarely has our best and deepest intentions close to its heart.

scotty1

03-28-2002, 04:43 AM

I think you're right about MA fanatic.

Its a bit sad to think that his one stupid comment started this thread, which then degenerated into a slanging match between red fists and sifu abel.

Although I do have to say that Sifu Abel does seem to be the common factor in a lot of KFO slaging matches. Or am I thinking of someone else?:)

red_fists

03-28-2002, 05:39 AM

Scotty1.

It was not a slanging match, I was simply checking Sifu Abel (able) out to see what gives.

And he replied exactly as I expected him to, which told me all I wanted to know about him. And which I had suspected for some time.
:D

scotty1

03-28-2002, 05:59 AM

Thought as much;)

Merryprankster

03-28-2002, 07:43 AM

Outward displays of respect ARE fake--that's why I called it a behavior vice somebody having my respect.

Respect IS an attitude, and it ranges from treating people with basic human dignity, even when they are in your power (prisoners of war) to really actually respecting them as somebody who has qualities you admire--somebody you study to see how they handle things in life in the hopes of improving yourself (One of the Mechanics who used to work for me.)

And I am not confusing ability with respect. My respect for somebody is based on sets of intangible personal qualities that have almost nothing to do with their abilities and everything in the world to do with how they treat other people. You can be the world's greatest teacher and the world's best fighter, but if you treat people both harshly and inconsistently, break your word constantly, sleep with other people's wives/girlfriends/boyfriends, etc, then you're not getting my respect as a person.

apoweyn

03-28-2002, 10:11 AM

"The statement is mute. To say one body of knowledge is equal to one man's ability is misleading. The only thing that really counts is individual ability. If the person in question has a mastery over himself then you can only measure that against the opponent." -- SifuAbel

the statement is MOOT.

EditorStu

fightfan

03-28-2002, 12:08 PM

"Why should a teacher play a poussyfoot game around the fact that they are a teacher?"

Cool, Ive been "teaching" a couple of friends for a few years now. I think Ill adopt the title "sifu" too!:D

NorthernMantis

03-28-2002, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Zantesuken
man what DID happen to ralek!?

Well to answer your question our dear friend Ralek got dethroned from his throne of trolls by a female southern mantis practitioner.

Kristoffer

03-28-2002, 12:22 PM

i wanna be a troll too :(

Knifefighter

03-28-2002, 01:17 PM

Sifu Abel:
You said you have been at the same location for 20 years. Does that mean you decided not to open a school in So Cal and went back to your No Cal school instead? Just curious, no ulterior motives.

Sunstyle:
You claim to be a seven year BJJ practitioner. With whom did you train and what is your rank? Ulterior motives here, as I am very dubious about this claim.

Royal Dragon

03-28-2002, 01:25 PM

I had this theory that Ralek was a charecter being written by a KFO's hired phycyatrists, or cartoonist or fiction writer or something.

Remember how Ralek would point out he was NOT posing as other people by siteing the fact that he always had a different IP # from them???

I started pointing out the WE could not see an IP#s due to the fact that only Adminitraitors had access to that info, and pretty soon he dissapeared!!!!! :cool:

RD

SifuAbel

03-28-2002, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Sifu Abel:
You said you have been at the same location for 20 years. Does that mean you decided not to open a school in So Cal and went back to your No Cal school instead? Just curious, no ulterior motives.

No, No, I said I was in the same school meaning that I was training for 20 years in one block, in the styles that I practice, instead of jumping around six months here and six months there like some of our esteemed members that put their casual trainings into a total and make it sound like more than it is. When in fact some of these attempts at training could be years apart. Sound familiar red?

Lets see, whats the score?
Red must be psychic, he can tell everything from a few words. What a dipstick.

Merry is in conflict defending respect.

Fightfan is a wanker.

Sun is a borderline troll.

I think that covers it.

Merryprankster

03-28-2002, 02:21 PM

Merry is in conflict defending respect.

Sifu, as you are a teacher, show me how?

ewallace

03-28-2002, 02:22 PM

Abel,

I wouldn't exactly consider you an authority on the subject of respect. See above post by you if any questions arise.

SifuAbel

03-28-2002, 02:25 PM

I'm not being disrespectful, I'm stating the truth. :D

ewallace

03-28-2002, 02:28 PM

I'm stating the truth
mmmmm...I'd say more along the lines of passing judgement.

Merryprankster

03-28-2002, 02:30 PM

Answer my question. Or not. It's your choice, I suppose.

apoweyn

03-28-2002, 02:31 PM

"i'm stating the truth."

pretension? table for one? right this way...

Merryprankster

03-28-2002, 02:39 PM

May I get you a menu sir?

What would you like today?

Our drink special is Willfully Obtuse. We make it with a special blend of Condicension Bitters and a light touch of fine Stunted Personal Growth. I think you'll find, however, that it tends to fill your cup and close down the appetite for anything else that is offerred. Perhaps you should try it as an apertif instead.

red_fists

03-28-2002, 02:40 PM

Yep, It has been confirmed.

Sifu Abel is nothing but a lousy Troll, just look at his most recent Posts.

Or is it Ralek in a "Sifu Abel" guise??

:confused: :confused:

apoweyn

03-28-2002, 02:44 PM

LOL@merryprankster

Dark Knight

03-28-2002, 03:19 PM

Still waiting for the 7 years of BJJ answer from Rolls... I mean Sun

Ryu

03-28-2002, 04:55 PM

Don't forget he was a champion kickboxer as well.

Ryu

sunstylin

03-31-2002, 02:00 PM

Why didnt you turn up then? hey? whats the matter? I waited for you and only a man with a dog and a couple of joggers were in the area for an hour! Well I was willing to back up my words unlike others!

sunstylin

03-31-2002, 02:05 PM

I dont think thats why he didnt turn up! He is most likely done small portions of various martial arts and never really acomplished anything! And so what if I was NSW state kickboxing Champ? Do you really care? What does it matter to you? I know that I was state champ, say what you like bacause I know the truth and you cant say otherwise!

sunstylin

03-31-2002, 02:10 PM

Well Im glad that you know those people well I guess I will see you in class then on Wednesday! Doubt all you like but you can prove nothing ! My comments do not prove who I am as a martial artist only my ability!:cool:

sunstylin

03-31-2002, 08:39 PM

And what answer are you after? Why should I answer it ? Have you answered any of mine? Did you turn up for the fight, well no you didnt thats right you were scared of someone you claim to be a kid! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

sunstylin

03-31-2002, 08:47 PM

Internal Gung-Fu is far more superior to jui-jitsu or wrestling!:cool:
We always need a good dishwasher!

jon

03-31-2002, 08:59 PM

"Well Im glad that you know those people well I guess I will see you in class then on Wednesday!"
* Which class would this be? I doubt highly your a student of either of my two sifu and im sure who ever your real sifu are they would not be to happy to hear about your comments. Who do you claim as your teacher then?

"Doubt all you like but you can prove nothing ! "
* I only need prove things to myself, ive already made up my mind regarding you. Though i always try to remain open to people who seek to change.

"My comments do not prove who I am as a martial artist only my ability"
* Your comments dont prove who you are but they prove your ability...
Ding dong, your a fool who has no skill.
That was an effort...

Now who do you claim as your teacher?

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:13 AM

Very interesting comments? First of all why would I tell you who my teacher is? Of cause he would be unhappy I would be kicked out! But I refuse to give information that reveals my identity! I will leave my details at this I study Wing Chun! Now come on you said you new the people you are from Sydney now you put the puzzle together! I would just like to take this oportunity to express how much Laughter I have had getting everybody to reply and starting all of this ! :cool:

jon

04-01-2002, 04:29 AM

sunstylin

"Very interesting comments?"
* You asking me or telling me?

"First of all why would I tell you who my teacher is?"
* Just checking if you had a spine and were willing to be held accountable for your convictions. My sifus are both in my profile for all to see. Proberly a big part of the reason why i watch my mouth:D

"I refuse to give information that reveals my identity!"
* Yeah i gotta admit with the rubbish your talking i would keep my identity a secret as well. You already slipped when you dropped names of Sydney instructors so why stop now?

"I will leave my details at this I study Wing Chun!"
* If your a Wing Chun student then im sure your just another face in the usual mass. Im friends and training partners with one of Rick Spains students, there usualy pretty respectable people.
Rick Spain himself is respectfull of the UFC.

"Now come on you said you new the people you are from Sydney now you put the puzzle together!"
* I already did that, none of the people i know speak in your tones and use your word structures. Your a kid im betting not even out of puberty yet. Your also proberly a short time student of one of sydneys many wing chun schools.

"I would just like to take this oportunity to express how much Laughter I have had getting everybody to reply and starting all of this !"
* Your only saying that becouse you have been publicy rediculed, you started out hopping for support but instead have been shot down in a blaze of glory.
Keep laughing its good for your health, still remember that you have not done anyone any favors.

All the best and enjoy your Wing Chun.

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:30 AM

Jon your kidding yourself, my words prove nothing I have only given out the impression that I know nothing because, there has been no Wing Chun masters in the UFC, I know it , you know it, MA Fanatic knows it! OK we have one Gung-Fu master in the UFC, and the William Cheung incident! Well firstly Van Clief was smashed, he is not that great, I ask has he completed learning the forms? William Cheung I will not back up as he lied about knowing Wing Chun secrets! I see no point in proving that I know anything when someone doesnt even answer my questions!(MA Fanatic this is you) If you think that Im going to reveal myself by naming the school, you are kidding yourself, why would I want to get kicked out over starting this silly thread? Come now you seem wise, surely you can see this is only entertainment for me and my friends! However I stand by what I have said about myself!LOL! Try again Jon Maybe I will tell! But Wing Chun is techically supirior to wrestling and Jui-Jitsu! this is my first serious statement! Please fill free to coment anybody, I will go indepth with any Qs you may ask! If I know the answer!:cool:
Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavonly glory

jon

04-01-2002, 04:40 AM

sunstylin

Dont mistake me, whilst i dont agree with what you say and i do see you as doing a diservice to Chinese martial arts im not about to go crying to your sifu about it. I was however hopping you may have enough gutts to put yourself up for critizism after openly bashing others.

"Wing Chun is techically supirior to wrestling and Jui-Jitsu!"
* Can you back this up with any facts or examples?
How is it 'technically superiour'? Can you give examples of well known Wing Chun practioners defeting Wrestling and Jui Jitsu guys? Or is this just another one of your opinions that you have choosen to list as a fact?

If Wing Chun is so supperiour to grappling arts then i ask you again...
Why does Rick Spain, the man you listed as being a Wing Chun 'master' capable of competing in the UFC teach BJJ???

You say you will answer questions so there are your first two, lets see how well you do.

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:41 AM

Come on now, where did I say I was a student of Rick Spain? I only said that I consider him a master! Im sure that you are friends with everybody ! But this has been a laugh session for me if you look up Wing Chun Vs Judo you will see that I have done the seme thing!
*Your only saying that becouse you have been publicy rediculed
Well tell me how this has happened since I dont know any of you and dont care about any of you!
Dont make me laugh!

*you started out hopping for support but instead have been shot down in a blaze of glory.
Well tell me how this has happened! I never expected any support and have stated it , I just tried to get people rowed up! Shot down I havent made any serious statements except about who I am, stop kidding yourself Jon, it doesnt help you!:cool: P.S I was telling you! People can take on other personalities on the net, think about it!:cool:
NICE TRY!LOL

jon

04-01-2002, 05:08 AM

sunstylin

"Come on now, where did I say I was a student of Rick Spain?"
* When did i say you where? If you were not though you wouldnt have carred less what i thought! hehe your not so hard to figure out im afraid sunstylin...

"Im sure that you are friends with everybody !"
* I cant say that, i do try my best to be a kind hearted person and give respect to others on the same path. Yes i know the Sydney kung fu scence pretty well.

"Well tell me how this has happened since I dont know any of you and dont care about any of you! "
* Its in plain text for all to see, your little media personality has recived no credit and neither has your argument, meaning you have totaly wasted your time;)

"if you look up Wing Chun Vs Judo you will see that I have done the seme thing! "
* Dude please try and at least make sence whilst your pretending to be a 33 yo kung fu student who has studied every art under the sun and is a kickboxing champion.

"Well tell me how this has happened!"
* Have you even read the replies to your own posts yet?

"I never expected any support and have stated it"
* You posted a paraphrased comment from someone on another thread and then asked for others to tell you there opinion on it. Why do you even care then?

"I just tried to get people rowed up!"
* Thats about the third time you have changed your apparent 'aim' in posting this thread. Make up your mind, are you trolling or trying to get opinions on UFC and TCMA?

"Shot down I havent made any serious statements except about who I am"
* Ok then you admit all your posts are rubbish except the ones where you talk about yourself! Im happy with that too:D

"stop kidding yourself Jon, it doesnt help you!"
* I stopped kidding myself a long time ago, i help myself - i try and avoid burdoning others. Thats what are arts are for remember?

"I was telling you! People can take on other personalities on the net, think about it!"
* Yeah but there is only so much you can do, if your intelligent its quite easy to do a good job. When your still in school and are unable to construct a factual arguement its much harder. If your taking on a personality then your doing either a BRILLIANT job of acting like you have no idea of the facts at hand or your just incredibly naieve. Im going with the latter!

Now do you remember saying this???
"Please fill free to coment anybody, I will go indepth with any Qs you may ask! If I know the answer!"
* Then you may also remember me asking you this....

Can you back this up with any facts or examples?

How is it 'technically superiour'?

Can you give examples of well known Wing Chun practioners defeting Wrestling and Jui Jitsu guys?
i
s this just another one of your opinions that you have choosen to list as a fact?

If Wing Chun is so supperiour to grappling arts then i ask you again...
Why does Rick Spain, the man you listed as being a Wing Chun 'master' capable of competing in the UFC teach BJJ???

Come on you invited me to ask you questions and even went so far as to state you would offer indepth answers!
Well are you going to hold true to your own statements or are those questions just to darn tough for you to handle?

I REALLY hope you dont play your fists like you argue if so Master Spain would be mortified!

P.S
In the true fitting fashion of this forum...
I dub thee TROLL!

Merryprankster

04-01-2002, 07:58 AM

sun,

Thanks for clearing up that WC is technically superior to BJJ, Wrestling, Boxing, GPS, and the Warp Drive.

Would you like a cookie?

Technically superior or different? Are you saying that the kinesiology behind the applications is superior in structure or the way that they are applied? Or, as I suspect, are you simply playing the "sifu says" game?

WC infighting and speculation is worse than anything I've ever seen. Get a grip, throw on some fingerless fight gloves, find a buddy who doesn't do WC and beat the **** out of each other.

What Machado instructor did you study under?

DelicateSound

04-01-2002, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Are you saying that the kinesiology behind the applications is superior in structure or the way that they are applied?

THIS is why you don't argue with Merry, OK?!

I would crawl headfirst into the heap of sh!t that is this thread, and make a point in WC's favour, but given the prime example of Sunstylin [who seems to represent a large portion of WC-ers] I'd like to see what he says.

Dark Knight

04-01-2002, 10:02 AM

"And what answer are you after? Why should I answer it ? Have you answered any of mine? Did you turn up for the fight, well no you didnt thats right you were scared of someone you claim to be a kid! "

Show up to an unknown location? You dont want to admit where you are

"But I refuse to give information that reveals my identity! "

but you will challenge anyone to a fight....if they can find you.

Im dropping my estimate down, I say your 13 at best.

Again, go to a mirror, place your finger and thumb on your forehead.

Dark Knight

04-01-2002, 10:18 AM

If WC is so superior why wont a master drop by on the way home and earn a couple thousand dollars for very little work.

UFC has paid up to $250 thousand.

And the world would be schocked as WC is proven superior

old jong

04-01-2002, 10:41 AM

...The individual practicing it! Nobody ,mature and serious in Wing Chun or any other style will say that his art is "superior" to the others! I agree to it's principles and it's ways of training (A personnal thing!)but that does not means that I don't respect what the others are doing. In my mind, only jerks like Ralek, will say things like that!
We don't need to prove anything to anybody. If a Wing Chun "master",as you say Dark Knight,would compete and win in some NHB competition,the only thing it would prove is that HE was superior at this moment and place.

Dark Knight

04-01-2002, 10:57 AM

"If a Wing Chun "master",as you say Dark Knight,would compete and win in some NHB competition,the only thing it would prove is that HE was superior at this moment and place."

My post is in response to Sun's comments. He feels that if a WC master were to fight he would win. But they other KF people who have fought did not win because they are not masters.

old jong

04-01-2002, 11:08 AM

I guess I misunderstood your post Dark Knight!

fightfan

04-01-2002, 01:02 PM

"I agree to it's principles and it's ways of training (A personnal thing!)but that does not means that I don't respect what the others are doing. In my mind, only jerks like Ralek, will say things like that! "

Now thats hypocrisy. All you EVER do is troll on BJJ so I guess that makes you a jerk. ;)

Ryu

04-01-2002, 01:37 PM

Nah, Old Jong contributes a lot. Don't be so hard on him.
Lately he seems to be a bit more annoyed with us MMAe'rs though :( (but that's probably due to the resurfacing of the MMA vs. Traditional arts crap that is now just being started by trolls.)
Even I got annoyed at Sunstylin...

Anyway, cheers. :D

Ryu

old jong

04-01-2002, 02:07 PM

...If, I was trolling on BJJ, I would be doing it on a **&%?% BJJ forum!...But you putted a ;) at the end of your comment so ,I will not take seriously! :)

old jong

04-01-2002, 02:11 PM

You understand very well...For a stegosaurus brain grappler!...:D

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:16 PM

I gave you a location for you to meet me but you were scared, I will not give the location of my school I dont want to be kicked out!

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:23 PM

If Bjj is ancient as said earlier then why did noone challenge WSL roof top champion! Where was Yip Man's challenges from BJJ? HEY!Rick Spain is a good teacher I will say nothing bad about him or his students!

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:29 PM

Jon if Im a kid stop wasting your time going to all this effort typing but it is obvious that I have succeeded in making you angry why else waste so much time?
Wing Chun is superior becauseit has:
Chi meridians, pressure points, forward force, ultimate force and other forces!
It is the most humanly efficient style based on a biomechanical structure that is the human body!
Wing Chun has no technique so it defeats all! HAHAHA!!!!!:cool:

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:33 PM

I only challenged you, but you were to scared, I gave you the time the place and I waited for you! You were scared
:cool: So dont claim that you dont know where anyone who looks back throught the threads will see that Im correct!:cool:

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 04:35 PM

WC is supiror to BJJ:cool:
see ya fellas Im going on vacation for a couple of weeks, have fun:cool:

Ryu

04-01-2002, 04:52 PM

"WC is supiror to BJJ"

Do you attack "critial" points too?
Vacation huh? I'm sure "Ralek" will be around when you're gone. :D

Ryu

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 05:15 PM

Well if Ralek will be around then maybe I will take my Laptop with me!:cool:

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 05:24 PM

the fact that anyone shooting in is leaving their head wide open. lots of grapplers accept this drawback in order to get the legs. however, you get someone nicely on the back of the head or on the neck, your legs won't be the most important issue anymore.

for a tackle dealing with the upper body, a person focusing on grabbing the body and taking it down has the disadvantage of exposing their head. shut down the head, you shut down the person, period.

Ryu

04-01-2002, 05:27 PM

Please ask my training partner, King T (Kung Fu now turned MMAer) about this theory. :D
He'll like to say a thing or two on it.

Ryu

sunstylin

04-01-2002, 05:30 PM

as far as the clinch? a few basic techniques, such as a lan sau, make the clinch difficult and often quite painful.

also, when a wing chun person talks about sensitivity, he or she is NOT talking about weakness. instead, that person has better bodily control and does not rely on their strength to deal with an attack. instead, they take advantage of the body's natural structure, the attackers force/energy and flow with it, same as water would. an opening turns up, they're through, usually with more fists, palms, elbows and fingers than you can count. the idea is based on flowing rather than fighting. it's difficult to tell -- i'd rather show you and let you feel why certain things just work a certain way.

by drilling things like sensitivity in your WHOLE BODY, you learn to move with, not against, a person's attack and when an opening arrives, you take it and wring all you can from it. your body will react better, usually without you even thinking about it, and if you're good enough, you'll have an uglified attacker who will require dental work when he comes to and hopefully a chance to get the hell away.

Dark Knight

04-01-2002, 05:43 PM

"the fact that anyone shooting in is leaving their head wide open. lots of grapplers accept this drawback in order to get the legs. however, you get someone nicely on the back of the head or on the neck, your legs won't be the most important issue anymore."

If it was that easy everyone at the NHB events would be doing it. Many top kick boxers have been there who hit more than hard enough and yet you still see people being taken down.

Dark Knight

04-01-2002, 05:54 PM

Sun

Where is your mom and dad (if he is around) taking you for vacation?

fightfan

04-01-2002, 07:45 PM

Ryu, thanks man, I see your point!

Old Jong, I see where youre coming from, but sometimes you just hurt my feelings you meanie! :( ;)
But seriously, Im not here to troll or spam and I do BJJ. I certainly dont try to lump everyone together from different styles but I am here and I do like aspects of CMA so please dont think I am a troll and I wont think you are.
Peace! :cool:

old jong

04-01-2002, 08:09 PM

I understand and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings sometimes! I am sometimes agressive toward trolls but those who know me for some times know that I don't hate BJJers or grapplers. In fact I have learn some useful things from them on this forum!...Peace.:cool:

MA fanatic

04-01-2002, 09:47 PM

LOL LOL
I finally found what it is people were telling me about. Turns out Sunstylin continues to begin threads about me. Look guys, if you want to know what the debate is about, just look on the Other Arts Forum (last 3 pages of HOW WOULD THIS RULE CHANGE UFC) and obviously another thread started by Sun with the same title as this one. I did not make statements which Sun says I did. Just check and see for yourself. I also answered all his questions. This guy had been proven by other forum members to have no martial arts training at all. He also challenged forum members to death matches, only to say that the reason he cannot reveal his true identity (providing city and state to where this challenges are to be held) is because it must remain a secret. Most likely do to his work with the secret service. lol Every time we answer his threads, we're just feeding into some child's fantasy. Just read the threads I mentioned above and you will emediately realize that this is a grammar school kid.

As for the statements I have made, I stand behind them. I'm too lazy to type them all over again. Once again, just see the threads intitled HOW WOULD THIS RULE CHANGE UFC (see my posts and Sun's posts...as well as Sun's challenges and him being discredited by other members). Then see a thread with the same tittle as this one. It is painfully obvious that this kid is a quack attempting to gather forum's support against me. For my other opinions on NHB, see the thread I started TO CRITICS OF NHB. I have nothing to hide.

SUN: You're probably too young to see this, but the more you post, the more you make yourself look bad. Just stop posting. You silly boy, go back to playing Tekkin and telling your gramar school friends that you're a ninja. No one respects you. Can't you at least see that. The only reason I respond to you is because you crack me up at the end of a hard day at work.
MA fanatic

MA fanatic

04-01-2002, 09:50 PM

Sun, I reread your posts on all the threads, and I have a thought that perhaps you're not answering all the posts yourself. Your writing style differs. How ever many Sun's are posting, you all need some fighting experience.
MA fanatic

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 12:02 AM

How does BJJ have a chance against WC Dim Mak??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????:cool:
Come fellas I have only just begun!
MA Fanatic I gave you ample time to tell me who the WC masters are now I will begin since your knowledge is pitiful, WC is the Superior art and since none can give sufficient evidence claiming otherwise WC is Victorious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1:cool:

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 12:09 AM

How very clever of you to pick up that it is changing!

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 12:11 AM

Jon what are your qaulificaions in word tone and sentence structure analysing??????????????????????????
Detective Jon LOL Pathetic:cool:

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 12:14 AM

Just because I will not state what school I learn at does not mean that I will not accept challenges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:
GET WITH THE PROGRAM!!! :cool:

jon

04-02-2002, 01:36 AM

Greetings sunstylin

"Jon if Im a kid stop wasting your time going to all this effort typing"
* Nah its too much fun pulling the micky out of you then watching you make pathetic attempts to get your own back. Are your friends paying you out yet or are they still egging you on to make a further fool of yourself?

"it is obvious that I have succeeded in making you angry why else waste so much time? "
*Not angry, disapointed! The reason im still responding is i find it humerous to make you double back fourteen times to try and defend yourself.

"Wing Chun is superior becauseit has:
Chi meridians, pressure points, forward force, ultimate force and other forces! "
* Yep Wing Chun is a great art, no argument from me there.

"It is the most humanly efficient style based on a biomechanical structure that is the human body! "
* err i HATE to break this to you, EVERY style is based on the 'biomechanical structure of the human body'! Still your undying dedication to your art dispite having no clue about it is rather endearing.

"Wing Chun has no technique so it defeats all! HAHAHA!!!!!"
* Well than how come my training partner (Rick Spains student) is cross training in Tai Chi and Bagua? And why can i still break though him without much worry dispite him knowing ALL the forms PLUS BJJ?

"Rick Spain is a good teacher I will say nothing bad about him or his students!"
* Just admit to being his student and get it over and done with, he has LOADS so its not like anyone is going to care less. The main downside is that your constantly dropping his name in a bad light. Rick Spain certainly is an excerelent WC practioner and fighter and is very respected, quit walking on his reputation would be my advice.

"How does BJJ have a chance against WC Dim Mak?"
* Ask Rick Spain the same question, i already know what he will tell you but i feel you may be a little shocked.

"Jon what are your qaulificaions in word tone and sentence structure analysing?"
* getting a little ansy with me arnt you:p Whats the matter am i hitting you a little TO close to home huh?

"Just because I will not state what school I learn at does not mean that I will not accept challenges!"
* Very well, im at Darling Harbour Chinese Gardens every day anytime before lunch, feel free to come and show me in person this supperiour WC Dim Mak and ill happily cross hands with you :D

Now you have a REAL location and can show at anytime you like, considering you have totaly igonored my questions dispite saying you would go into detail im sure your not going to show anyway.
lol maybe you should bring your friends, you may need them :)

errr considering your only a kid you better not take that toooooo seriously:p

MA fanatic

04-02-2002, 04:26 AM

Sun: It is clear that more than person is writing your posts. You went from confusing your 'NOs' and 'KNOWs' to using words like 'ample.' Do you think that you and I are competing on this forum? That's it isn't it? You think this is a competition. I don't care that you don't name the school you train in, or that you keep your 007 identity a secret. But, for crying out loud, if you make a challenge, at least have the courage to name a city and state. No one is afraid of a little monkey like yourself. People read your posts and laugh at their inconsistencies, lack of substance and inaccuracies. The entire concept of you starting threads about out of context statements I have made is comical to any adult, including myself, on the forum. As for WC Masters, I have repeated many times that my statements included NHB competitions which have been going on for over 60 years (no one is talking about UFC). You have refused to hear that. YOUR ONLY defense in this pathetic childish forum tournament you have started, is that I have not named any Wing Chun masters who have fought in the UFC. That BROKEN record defense of yours has as much of a chance of working as your deadly WC dim mak. As for names, I will not do research to fuel your discussion. I simply have no time.

I will help you find answers for your questions on your own:
Look at UFC 1 and 2 for Kung Fu fighters and Penkak Silat fighters. Check UFC 6 (the one Don Frye won) for a Pa Kua fighter claiming to have 200 victories get KOd with a single punch. See Extreme Fighting 2 for a WC master (american master) lose to Igor Zinoviev after being taken down. See The Gracie Challenge Videos (you can order those on line) for Kung Fu fighters (including a Son Soo Kung Fu fighter who took on Royce twice) take on the challenge and lose. Order the list of Rickson's apponents (there is a compiled list of close to 70 fights), and you'll see at least a dozen claiming to be Kung Fu instructors and masters. Order Marco Ruas Unleashed video and see two kung fu fighters get destroyed by two of Marco Ruas' vale tudo students. If you want to see more, see Rickson in Vale Tudo Japan (I think 1991yr) take out a Wing Chun instructor (you can order those tapes from any Sun Coast Video). A Wing Chun Grandmaster named William Cheung (world famouse) lost to a grappling take down (and he was in his fighting prime at the time). For some reason he didn't use those Dim Mak strikes you have spoken of. Maybe you should give him some lessons, you pathetic little boy. Even Bruce Lee (I assume you know who he is because you study from his movies) had publically stated that Wing Chun was very limmited. Actually, coming from such a diverse martial arts background as yourself (including training from the Machodos for 7 years...that's laughable), I'm surprised at the bs you write. Kung Fu instructors have lost in full contact competitions such as the Shidokan (see Chicago Shidokan videos), Bare Knuckle fighting tournaments (though face contact was not allowed in those)...just see The Fighting Black Kings (you can rent the documentary), and Cage Fighting (those tournaments are held in IL., IN, MI, and CA every 3 or so months).
I'm not going to flip through all my NHB tapes and or pay money for tapes I have seen just to "WIN" your little forum contest. You do your own research from this point on. If you want more detailed answers or truly want to test your skills contact www.mixedmartialarts.com or MMAtv.com. I think the guys on that forum will be more than happy to fight you anywhere any time. That is if you provide the city and state. Hell, they'll even pay to bounce you around a little bit. Everyone needs a good warmup.

Now I post a challenge to you: Tell us your true martial arts background. Tell me one Wing Chun master who had fought and defeated anyone of substance in the last 100 years. Please please please tell me. Tell us the city and state where you live (and be prepared to answer specific questions about the location). Tell us who you consider a true martial arts master. Explain to us this, why do you call people cowards for not showing up at your deadly challenge when you don't give them a city and state? You're the coward little boy. No one is going to search the entire country for a pimpled faced kid standing in a school yard with a pair of nunchucks and his sister's friend for a witness. I love cowardly little punks like yourself. You don't answer any questions about yourself but demand answers from everyone else. You post challenges, but don't provide locations, and you claim to have skills which you do not, never have, and never will. lol
MA fanatic

jon

04-02-2002, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by sunstylin
as far as the clinch? a few basic techniques, such as a lan sau, make the clinch difficult and often quite painful.

also, when a wing chun person talks about sensitivity, he or she is NOT talking about weakness. instead, that person has better bodily control and does not rely on their strength to deal with an attack. instead, they take advantage of the body's natural structure, the attackers force/energy and flow with it, same as water would. an opening turns up, they're through, usually with more fists, palms, elbows and fingers than you can count. the idea is based on flowing rather than fighting. it's difficult to tell -- i'd rather show you and let you feel why certain things just work a certain way.

by drilling things like sensitivity in your WHOLE BODY, you learn to move with, not against, a person's attack and when an opening arrives, you take it and wring all you can from it. your body will react better, usually without you even thinking about it, and if you're good enough, you'll have an uglified attacker who will require dental work when he comes to and hopefully a chance to get the hell away.

* Can we stick with this version of Sun it sounds a little more intelligent. That or just using a spelling and grammar checker:p
Either way this is getting hella silly now and its obvious that you have nothing to offer other than trolling.

guohuen

04-02-2002, 07:43 AM

There seems to be at least two Suns and at least three Raleks. I think some kids in a dorm somewhere are taking turns having fun.

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 05:39 PM

I never said Rick Spain was my teacher, only that he is a good teacher. Please try and be more careful when making assumptions about me.
Thank you for the information on Yip Man I found it very informative!
Now as for your challenge, I will not fight at your kung fu school, however if you are serious, then you may meet me at Lucas Heights Nuclear reactor employee car park! This is a nuetral area for both of us and is fair as noone will have any help! You live in sydney and have sufficient time to get to there by Sunday 5:00am Or maybe since I have given the impression that Im only a kid you would like someone who is nown as a adult and very skilful WC practitioner? Well then challenge Troy Sing Ting, he can very easily show you the Dim Mak!
Failure to fight either one of us will show your inferior kung fu ability, and prove that WC is the superior art!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 05:43 PM

You stated earlier that WC masters fought in the UFC I will Not Waste anymore time with you until you name these so called WC masters!!!!!!!!!:cool:
When I throw a dog a scrap I dont wanna know if the bone taste's good! :cool: :cool: :cool:

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 05:50 PM

UFC no.4 shows Royce Gracie training on a speedball, his punches are pathetic! How do you expect those punches to compete with a WC Masters chain punches???????????????????:cool: :cool:

sunstylin

04-02-2002, 06:16 PM

I have seen in many threads you talk about Weights!!!! Here is a tip for you hopless BJJ practitioners!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Power is something that you can train, but very difficult to develop. Since power is a derivative of mass and acceleration. Usually, due to mega tension, many people hinder their power. Many people mistake things by saying you can develop power, the main way you can do that is by simply increasing your mass. But to utilize more power one needs to train to relax, so that tension does not hinder your acceleration.
WC is the Superior ART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool: :)

jon

04-02-2002, 07:27 PM

sunstylin
* I will only go though this challenge stuff with you once and i will make myself VERY clear about it now.
Im not challenging Wing Chun, i have friends in the art and think highly of it. My offer was for you to show up and show me this supperiour wing chun you claim to have. I dont believe in meeting people in car parks in the early hours of the morning as believe it or not people have been known to come to unfortunate demise that way. If you would like to meet me at the gardens i will happy to then go somewhere with you to spar but im not about to meet you in private knowing nothing of who you are or who you may be with.

"then challenge Troy Sing Ting, he can very easily show you the Dim Mak!"
* I dont know 'Troy Sing Ting' and i find it amusing you are making challenges on his behalf. My offer was to you and you alone, i didnt word it as a challenge only an offer to show me this Wing Chun you say cant be discribed in text.

Failure to show up at the Chinese Gardens means your a coward and unable to back up your claims.

I dont like internet challenges and that was not my intension but i WILL back up my words. If your really serious then you know where i am and how to find me.

Akuma

04-02-2002, 07:31 PM

This thread is a waste of bandwidth and should be deleted IMO.

jon

04-02-2002, 07:38 PM

Akuma
I second that motion
Email admin and ask them to take a look, its nothing but a troll thread anyway.

chokeyouout

04-02-2002, 09:41 PM

Bickering on the internet is useless.

sunstylin

04-03-2002, 01:34 AM

I will not meet at your school to fight, meet me on neutral grounds as I mentioned before!
If you fail to turn up at the previously mentioned site it will only prove your lack of kung fu skills, and that WC is the superior Martial Art!!!:cool:
I can clearly see you are scared by insisting to fight at your school where all your martial artist mates will be!!! You are a coward if you fail to show up!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:

sunstylin

04-03-2002, 01:39 AM

I will be waiting for you!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!
Maybe you would like to fight a master such as Tsui Seung Tin!
If you deny knowing this particular person then it will only portray your poor knowledge of WC!!!
Good Luck you will need it if your not scared to show up at Lucas heights this Sunday 5:00am reactor employee carpark!!!

Ryu

04-03-2002, 01:51 AM

Sunstylin, I challenge you to a WC vs. BJJ match (no offense, WC guys..) This will be a real fight. Show up at 6 am tomorrow morning by the big oak tree at the park and fight me.
If you do not show up it will only prove the supremacy of BJJ over WC and how poor your kung fu skills really are.
I will be waiting at 6 am. If you do not show up, I am the winner and you will show how bad your skills are. And that BJJ is superior by far.

Ryu

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 01:52 AM

Why are you so angry?Fighting is the number one cause of "poked out eyes" in the world.The whole lot of it sounds too dangerous for me.

sunstylin

04-03-2002, 01:53 AM

im not about to meet you in private knowing nothing of who you are
* You said you knew before that I was a kid!!! Make up your mind Jon, you are contradicting yourself!!!!It is clear that you are scared!!! You know where to find me be there and prove me wrong!!!
I will not be on the net untill Monday so you better be there on Sunday or you will only prove that you have inferior kung fu skills and that WC is the superior art!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:
I will understand that you are a coward if you do not show up!
I gave you neutral grounds for this, and you challenged me so there is no crying about it now Jonny boy!!!!
I have developed a style of fighting with no fixed position :cool:

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 02:00 AM

Are you really gonna fight this guy?Jeepers golly gee ****!You must be one crazy hombre!I hope I never run into you at the arcade!

Mr Punch

04-03-2002, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by sunstylin
as far as the clinch? a few basic techniques, such as a lan sau, make the clinch difficult and often quite painful.

also, when a wing chun person talks about sensitivity, he or she is NOT talking about weakness. ... etc
by drilling things like sensitivity in your WHOLE BODY, you learn to move with, not against, a person's attack and when an opening arrives, you take it and wring all you can from it. ...etc

Sunstrokin. Don't know or care who you are. Please go away. And don't worry, everyone gets hair there at some time.

Rubthebuddha. Thanks for that post; I thought it was very interesting. (Everyone. It comes from the rtb in response to the wc forum thread 'wc in the street', not from this fool).

Old Jong. I think you hit the nail on the head with your first post on this thread. '.' says it all!;)

Ryu

04-03-2002, 02:04 AM

Remember, Sunstylin,
we fight at 6 am tomorrow by the oak tree in the park. If you do not show up you lose automatically. Then it will prove BJJ is superior. :cool:
:cool: :cool: !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:
:cool:

:cool:

:cool:

:cool:

Ryu

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 02:05 AM

Sunstylin is so crazy.

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 02:12 AM

You must be David Levicki's "sifu".Now I know your super duper tough.

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 02:16 AM

Reverse trolling is a skill wich can only be attained through years of training.Sunstylin gets a c- for effort, a d- for composition and a f- for delivery.

Ryu

04-03-2002, 02:18 AM

How bout me? I'm studying hard to pass! :D

Ryu

chokeyouout

04-03-2002, 02:27 AM

****,

Wome people never leave this place!

Ippon!

jon

04-03-2002, 03:59 AM

sunstylin

Yeah ok, seeing as you refuse to meet me in a public place at a decent hour of the day where we can meet up and then move somewhere else fine!
I will meet you at in the nuclear power plant car park in the small hours of the morning. If im not there on time... Start without me!
For this fight i vote we invite all of our friends and use weapons, i will bring all my old high school friends and our collections of blunt metalic objects and firearms and you bring whatever and whoever you like.
I will use nothing but traditional chicken boxing and you may use nothing but Wing Chun. All of our friends have to make a pact that they allow you and me to duel to the death with no interference. I will video tape the fight and alert all of the local martial schools to be there and witness our spectacle of death.
Any movements shall be legal and i will certainly be trying my best to rip out your collerbone and then stab you in kidney point 9 with it.

Your on Sunstylin, ill meet you at some carpark somewhere in the middle of the night and we can finaly prove once and for all which of us has a bigger ....
I will go around at 4am before you get there and dispatch any security gaurds with my chicken leg kicks. We must also remember to remove all security tapes from the cameras.
When one of us is killed the winner is allowed to crack open the lossers skull and feast on the juicy goodness that lies within. Body armour shall also be legal and i will be sporting my superman outfit with the spandex yellow underwear worn on the outside.
Tell EVERYONE you know that this is going to happen! I want you to bring ALL of your friends and be armed to the teeth and ready for blood. Me and my friends will be waiting and have a ring of fire ready set up for us to duel within. Small explosives should be legal but anything to large and we may creat a nuclear meltdown which is never fun :(
If you fail to show for this duel to the death then i shall hunt you down and gut you like a pig in your sleep when you least expect it :mad:
Please remember, no police and NO parents!

:rolleyes: :eek: :D

MA fanatic

04-03-2002, 05:49 AM

Well, now that Sun's parents took him on spring vacation to florida, we can talk. LOL LOL Dark, how could you avoid Sun's challenge. The gave you some silly name of I'm not even sure what, but didn't give you a city and state to fly to. LMAO.

I'm wondering if anyone can name one single Wing Chun master who had one any competition, or defeated any other accomplished fighter this century? Don't give me stories of people long gone or a lineage list. I'm glad that silly kid Sun is gone. I think he proved his age and his historical knowledge when he suggested Yip Man fighting BJJ.

If you want to read my responses to modern excuses masters make for why they don't compete in NHB, I wrote them down in OTHER ARTS FORUM's Critics of NHB thread.

I think, in the early days of NHB, many traditional fighters thought they could actually fair well without cross training, and made attemmpts to compete. Now they quickly realized that they need to cross train and that their knowledge of deadly blows, meridians, stand up joint locks, fancy kicks, and blocks is marginally effective at best. If these guys could actually do some damage, they would. They wont because they can't. One can make numerouse exuses, but why not just prove it. Why not let the world see the true effectiveness of lets say Wing Chun? It will never happen, but we'll keep hearing stories of ancient masters and the skills "too destructive" to display.

How ironic that to many of you, the deadliest men alive are ones who haven't once displayed their deadliness, just talked about it.
MA fanatic

guohuen

04-03-2002, 07:32 AM

Remember, no do-overs and you have to stop when someone cries uncle. Jon, don't use the mick jagger, it's too powerfull.

Ryu

04-03-2002, 07:50 AM

I waited in the park by the old oak tree for an hour and half!
6 am to 7:30 am!!
Sunstylin NEVER showed up. :mad:
Because Sunstylin did not show up to my challenge, and ran away, I automatically win the challenge. It is quite obvious that Sunstylin's kung fu skills have been defeated by BJJ because he did not show up by the oak tree in the park. He proves that BJJ is superior.
I have beaten my first challenger in an internet challenge match!

( :D )

(ugh... I somehow feel just like......Ralek! :eek: YUCK!
must wash body..! :( Feel dirty... the dirt won't come off!!!!!! )

Ryu

guohuen

04-03-2002, 08:11 AM

Try Quell, A200, or kerosene!

Dark Knight

04-03-2002, 08:39 AM

Ryu, congradulations on your victory.

Budokan

04-03-2002, 08:46 AM

We're all proud of how you handled Sunstrokin', Ryu.:D

Ryu

04-03-2002, 10:43 AM

Thank you, all. Thank you.

I have now defeated a seven year BJJ and kickboxer champion, who is also a WC grandmaster. Plus various other internet champions.

Ryu

Mutant

04-03-2002, 10:48 AM

Ryu,

You fought your Internet Challenge with great skill & true Warrior Spirit (TM). Congratulations on a triumphant victory. You have decisively proven that sunstrokin's kung fu was inferior and powerless against your technique.

MA fanatic; you cannot beat a troll of sunstokin's style and lineage with logic and facts. You must train in the art of anti-logic and absurdity.

Now Jon, you must hunt down his defeated tortured soul and eat his brains through his broken skull with your chicken claw, once and for all exorcising this demon troll spawn of inferior skill.

Ryu, you must prepare for you acid bath, it is the only way to completely cleanse, otherwise you run the risk of following Ralek on his path of troll darkness... :eek:

Ryu

04-03-2002, 10:56 AM

Thank you, MutantWarrior, my friend.
Yes, it was a hard battle. My training in anti-logic and absurdity has taken me to the peak of battle potency. I have slewn the troll in our midst. For he did not show up by the oak tree this morning at 6 am. His kung fu has been vanquished.

I now hold my head low for the inevitable bath of acid I must undertake... cry not for me, my fellow soldiers... for even though such torment seems an unjust fate, to be transformed into the underworld's king "Ralek" would be a hellish eternity I could never escape. So I go now to the bubbling brooks of acid...
I shall rise to power again some day...

The immortal warrior, Ryu

:D

sunstylin

04-09-2002, 03:39 AM

How pathetic you are making challenges whilst Im not on the net, well if you are serious then meet me at Woolaware magrove Swamp Captain Cook Drive Sydney!!!!
Lets see you in action you smart-mouthed Punk!!!

sunstylin

04-09-2002, 03:42 AM

You dare not meet this kid on neutral ground!!!!!!
You coward, you have no HONOUR!!!
You clearly have inferior kung-fu ability!!!
WC is Superior!!!:cool: :cool: :cool:
Stike first, strike hard, no mercy sir! :cool:

MA fanatic

04-09-2002, 04:38 AM

Welcome back!!! I missed you. You have provided me with many laughs after a hard day at work. How was your spring break vacation? Disney World looking good this time of year I'm sure.
LOL So you're back to amuse us great warrior. Kid, people are laughing at you. Can't you see that? It hurts me to read your posts now because you keep making people laugh at you. lol I truly feel for your parents (wait, wasn't it your father who wrote several posts for you?). I'm sure your KF instructor has his hands full with you as well.
MA fanatic

MA fanatic

04-09-2002, 04:44 AM

I love Sun's challenges. He either doesn't name a state, or time, or city, lol. I can't stop laughing at his last post. I can't believe you guys would challenge someone while he was on vacation. You guys have no honor. Now he'll meet you in a swamp and show you the fire ball he can blow out of his but. Your actions have proved that Sun's WC is superior (lol). I did have a thought. What Sun is some freak on antipsychotic meds.

Sun: You take Heldol? Resperdol? Lithium (mood stabilizer)? I'm just curious.

Sun: Please name one WC instructor who had defeated anyone (and don't name any of your friends who fought in backyard wrestling) in the last 100 years. You silly little boy.

MA fanatic

MA fanatic

04-09-2002, 04:52 AM

Ryu: Your posts are killing me. You guys are cracking me up. Sun is either a gramar school kid, a mentally challenged kid, a mentally challenged adult, or some guy just like you and me who is basically pulling our leg with these crazy posts for our entertainment. No one is that dumb.

Ryu: Congratulations on your win over Sun. You have proven that BJJ is superior to WC.

You do have to hand it to Sun. He is persistant. Anyone else would pick up on the fact that they have been made a clown and give up posting.
MA fanatic

jon

04-09-2002, 05:23 AM

Oh yay he is back :D

"You dare not meet this kid on neutral ground!!!!!!"
* Errr what are you talking about, i was there with all of my friends waiting for you in the car park. You cant imagine how stupid i felt when i didnt even show up. After i had gone to the trouble of getting up at five in the morning and wearing my superman suit and all:(

"You coward, you have no HONOUR!!! "
* Oh please stop your hurting me :rolleyes:

"You clearly have inferior kung-fu ability!!! "
* Gee you really think so? wow you got me pegged...

"WC is Superior!!!"
* So are my goat hearding skills but you dont hear me raving on about it.

Dont worry sun im sure it will get bigger 'some' day :p

Dark Knight

04-09-2002, 08:30 AM

SUN, I AM NOW CHALLENGING YOU.

Meet me in my parking lot in one hour. If you do not show everyone here will know you are a coward.

Zantesuken

04-09-2002, 03:03 PM

no offense or anything but if you train in ma you should seriously reconsider your attitude(both of you). you let some kid anger you and you're so quick to fight.

think for a bit and then make your decision. it's not like you'll prove yourself by beating upa little kid...

Dark Knight

04-09-2002, 03:09 PM

coward.

I have a victory

Merryprankster

04-09-2002, 03:10 PM

Zan---

Slowly, so you don't hurt yourself, ease your way down off that horse.

WATCH IT NOW, it's VERY VERY high.

Once you've got your feet on the ground, take a look from down here....

It's just fun. Nothing more.

MA fanatic

04-09-2002, 07:58 PM

Zan: Relax man. No one is angry. We're just having fun with some kid on the forum. Speaking for myself, I'm not angered easy. I also have enough confidence in my martial arts ability to avoid taking a challenge (not like there was actually a serious challenge) from a gramar school kid. lol We're just having fun. I'm sure this kid is enjoying himself as well.
MA fanatic

guohuen

04-09-2002, 08:10 PM

He's accually pretty funny!

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:32 AM

You are the coward who never shows up for challenges, and then invents challenges to amuse yourself and maintain dignity to yourself because of your failure!!! You are a Pathetic Coward !:cool:

red_fists

04-11-2002, 12:37 AM

sunstylin.

My TCC blows your MA away.

Don't believe me, meet me tomorrow in front of the shrine at 06:00pm.
The one with the "Manji" on he roof.

Plenty of time for you to get here.
:D :D :D

P.S.: The person that fails to show up has to pay for the Beers afterwards.
P.P.S.: A Manji is NOT a Swastika.

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:39 AM

*You cant imagine how stupid i felt when i didnt even show up.

Well, Well, Well! So you claim to turning up and stuff up by admitting you didnt! Its ok Jon I know your a coward, you dont have to try and cover it up!LOL

P.S Im not interested in your genitals growth!!!

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:43 AM

Im sorry but I decline!:cool:
I have wasted too much time with challenges that nobody turns up for!!!!:cool:

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:45 AM

WSL!!!
Now tell me the WC Master who competed in the UFC!!!:cool:

red_fists

04-11-2002, 12:46 AM

sunstylin.

Oooaah, don't pull a "Ralek" now.

I will be there as I live across the road from the place.

And we got a nice big Tatami covered floor to soak up any Blood that might flow.
;) ;)

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:51 AM

Since you are making impossible callenges meet me at the South pole in half an hour!!!
Your absence will prove that you are a pathetic coward !!!
:cool: :cool: :cool: LOL
AS IF I WOULD WASTE MY TIME WITH SOMEONE WHO NEVER TURNS UP TO CHALLENGES!!! :cool:

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 12:59 AM

ALRIGHT THEN!!!
wHICH SUBERB, TOWN, OR CITY?(PLEASE NAME ONE)

*The person that fails to show up has to pay for the Beers afterwards
wELL THEN IN THAT CASE i HOPE YOU DONT TURN UP, i LOVE DRINKING BEER EVEN BETTER WHEN SOMEONE ELSE PAYS!!!

*A Manji is NOT a Swastika.
wELL THANK U FOR CLEARING THAT UP! LMAO! I WOULD HATE TO BE SEEN IN PUBLIC WITH A NEO-NAZI!!!LMAO!!!!:cool:

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 01:02 AM

COWARD
I HAVE VICTORY!!!:cool:

red_fists

04-11-2002, 01:06 AM

ALRIGHT THEN!!!
wHICH SUBERB, TOWN, OR CITY?(PLEASE NAME ONE)

Look at my sig.
All the Info in there.

*The person that fails to show up has to pay for the Beers afterwards.
wELL THEN IN THAT CASE i HOPE YOU DONT TURN UP, i LOVE DRINKING BEER EVEN BETTER WHEN SOMEONE ELSE PAYS!!!

Get the Credit Card ready I drink a lot.

*A Manji is NOT a Swastika.
wELL THANK U FOR CLEARING THAT UP! LMAO! I WOULD HATE TO BE SEEN IN PUBLIC WITH A NEO-NAZI!!!LMAO!!!!:cool:

Considering that the Swastika is the reverse image of a Manji, not easy to be confused.

See ya tomorrow.

sunstylin

04-11-2002, 01:15 AM

Wing Chun another VICTORY!!! - Part 1!!
Master Wong Shung Leung was an undefeated wing chun warrior!

Earlier said by someone else about BJJ being ancient...well the fact is not once did they come and challange the great masters of wing chun (eg WSL, LS, CHT, VK, SN etc!!

Rick spain is a good teacher here are some facts DIRECT from his website!!!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During the late 70's and early 80's, Rick carved out a career as a full contact martial artist with incredible success. Ranging from State Champion to National Champion, and peaking as World Champion in 1982-83. As titleholder, Rick retired from competition undefeated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If that is all you think of me, Jon, why do you waste your time replying. Reply to me!!!
LMAO!!

Dont take it so personally. I am just interested in other poeples point of view. I just want to talk about kung fu.
:cool: Wing Chun another VICTORY!!! - Part 2!!
Wing Chun is superiour because it has no techniques!!!!
Forward force!
Ultimate force...and other forces etc etc...
Chi meridens and pressure points!!
Superiour structure
Dim Mak

William cheung was defeated by A leung ting student so it shows which is the superiour WC/WT system. (remember that WT has anti-grappling in it too!!)
LOL!!

Bio-mechanically speaking, Wc is the most humanly efficent for combat basied on the human model. *(eg the SLT our secret power form)

dezhen2001

04-11-2002, 03:50 AM

:D very enthusiastic about WCK :D

david

MA fanatic

04-11-2002, 04:14 AM

OK guys. This is obviously either a little kid who has two people writing his posts (check look at the style difference), or an adult amusing himself. I just don't have time anymore. I love this forum and would love to continue debating any martial arts issue, but just feel like this conversation with Sunstylin is getting old.

Sunstyling: You still have some growing up to do. You're persistant, and perhaps one day this will pay off. But, most important, you have to know when people are laughing at you. I have seen many people succeed and fail in life. The ones that failed usually had no idea how they present to other people. How ever old you are, you present as a child, who posts nonsense and insults other people who are twise your age, strength, and have 5 times more knowledge. One day you will have someone find out your true 'top secret' identity and give you a good wooping just to teach you a good lesson at life.

Watch everyone: Now Sun will post that I am a coward, that he won some argument on the forum proving that WC is superior, and put a bunch of smily faces at the end of his ranting about some challenge people never show up for after he refuses to name a city and state of where he wants to fight. lol The guy will go on to say that I haven't answered his questions (which I and other forum members did), yet continue to ignore any question asked of him.

Did Sun's actions prove that WC is superior? No. Did this thread prove anything? Yes. It proved that many kids sit at home with nothing to do. That parents should take better care of children and engage them in healthy activities outside the PC. It proved that adults can find it amusing argue with children. Oh well.

MA fanatic

MA fanatic

04-11-2002, 04:23 AM

I just have to add one thing: How the hell would Brazilians challenge the Great Masters Of Wing Chun. LMAO The few Wing Chun students who fought BJJ or other Vale Tudo competitors in US and Brazil lost and lost royaly. If anything, Wing Chun had proven extremely ineffective in NHB style competitions. Hell, Bruce Lee himself said so. The great Grandmaster William Cheung (the man is a grandmaster who is one of the top Wing Chun practitioners in the world) himself was taken down and beaten in his prime in the middle of his own seminar. Does one realy have to fight a grandmaster or a master to prove an art ineffective? Seems like when some traditional artists enter the ring, they are all top guys, when they lose, other TMA guys say, 'oh, but they weren't real masters.' In that case, who is the real master? Where are they? What are their names? Why don't they stop hiding and actually test their skills? Why not see if WC trapping works on a boxer? Why not see if meridian pressure points work on a grappler? They wont, because they can't pull those theoretical techniques off. I have seen some old black and white footage of masters fighting bare knuckle in China. They fought hard, but had zero technique. Just some middle aged men pounding one another in a ring. These so called masters would lose to a muay thai boxer with 6 months experience.

This master Sun mentioned who was a great Wing Chun warrior: Who did he fight? What are the names of his apponents? When did he fight? What year? What city? What were the rules? Doesn't that master have any students who would want to test their skills? No they don't. Why? They would be destroyed in an NHB arena.
MA fanatic

vingtsunstudent

04-11-2002, 06:31 AM

hey ma fanatic
you were goin' so well til' that last post.
what a lot of dribble, your lack of knowledge on wing chun has been shown to be wanting, sorry bud.
to sunstylin
you like to rave on about wing chun & other teachers, well how about you tell me exactly who your teacher is.
don't use other peoples names if you are not game to use your own teachers.
you are a poor example for wing chun!
i am only up in newcastle & would definitely meet you half way(anywhere on the central coast) to see if your ability in wing chun can back the $hit comin' from your mouth.(you can bring a few friends if you like & i'll smack the fuk out of them just for knowing you)
one thing, i am not a child or beginner & you have ABSOLUTELY nothing to fear about me not showing up & wasting your odviously precious time.
come on mouth, back yourself.
vts

jon

04-11-2002, 06:37 AM

sunstylin
"You cant imagine how stupid i felt when i didnt even show up."
* Whoops, this was actualy a typo, should read 'when YOU (not i) didnt even show up'. Thank you for pointing that out.

"Its ok Jon I know your a coward, you dont have to try and cover it up!LOL"
* whew thank god for that, i hate trying to act tough.

"Im not interested in your genitals growth!!!"
* errr good im glad to hear it, that makes things much less embarasing.

This thread deserves death.

Hey Sun, ill ask you the same question i ask all WC players, there is a correct answer if you know how to look.

How do you find my 'centreline' when im in constant motion?
How do your 'gates' work when attacked from the rear?

Come on candy boy, lets see how well you understand your own system. If you cant answer these questions properly ill just assume your not a dedicated WC player and therefore are not worth any more of my time. Dont any of you real WC people help him out either ;)

dezhen2001

04-11-2002, 06:42 AM

d@mn, glad you didn't pose those questions to me... i'm really not sure of the answer, as i'm very much the beginner :p

david

sunstylin

04-12-2002, 04:25 AM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you find my 'centreline' when im in constant motion?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAHAhaha... sorry jonny boy, your pittifuly knowledge of WC makes me laugh so hard i just fell off my seat in a fit of histerics! (thanks for that!)

But to answer you, You need to know what the centre line is! (you obvoiusly have NO idea!!)
Imagine a human model, now take a skewer and push it from the centre of his head down through the middle of his body..and it will probably come out though near the butt hole. You see Jon, this centerline is through the centre of the whole body!!! I dont care where you are or what motion you do, you centerline exist from every angle!!! ....the point? So when i strike you, your body absorbs all the impact and waste no force. Like when u hit a football, if you hit the sides it wobbles and force is wasted, but by striking the core of the mass...it absorbs maxim force!!! (come on Jonny boy ...this is basic!!!!) ...HAhahahaha :cool: :cool:

sunstylin

04-12-2002, 04:32 AM

* Whoops, this was actualy a typo, should read 'when YOU (not i) didnt even show up'. Thank you for pointing that out.
YOU ARE ONLY SAYING THAT NOW BECAUSE YOU WERE CAUGHT OUT! FORGET IT JON I WAS THERE YOU WEREN'T, AND YOU ADMITTED IT! YOUR ONLY TRYING TO REGAIN FACE!!!:cool:

jon

04-12-2002, 04:34 AM

Sun
Just as i expected, you dont even know your own system.
You dont have a centre 'line' you git, you have a centre of gravity which is an EXACT point. Its not some imaginary line you draw. This point ranges in placement according to what forces are present and what direction the body is moving.
Your discription of a centreline is easily put out by any number of variables. For example where is your wonderous centreline when im leaning?

"You see Jon, this centerline is through the centre of the whole body!!! I dont care where you are or what motion you do, you centerline exist from every angle!!!"
* Croc of compleate rubbish told to low level WC students to give them more confidence whilst fighting. If i bend or even move fast in any direction your centreline will no longer be my center of gravitiy and will instead just be some imaginary line on my body your trying to aim at.

Would you like to have a go at my other question or have you had enough yet?
Really please keep going i love being able to teach a guy more about his own system:rolleyes:

sunstylin

04-12-2002, 04:34 AM

WELL NOW YOU KNOW BEGINNER AND GOODLUCK WITH YOUR TRAINING!!!:cool:
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!!!

dezhen2001

04-12-2002, 04:35 AM

i could have said that answer though :( lol but it didn't make any sense
hey jon, if u have time to chat, i'm in the chatroom... :)

david

sunstylin

04-12-2002, 04:39 AM

ONLY COMERCIAL SCHOOLS OUT TO MAKE MONEY HAVE LEVELS PLEASE COME AGAIN!!!:cool:

jon

04-12-2002, 04:43 AM

David
Im trying to look for you now but chat seems to be doing odd things. Is different to last time and im the only one there :eek:

Sun
"ONLY COMERCIAL SCHOOLS OUT TO MAKE MONEY HAVE LEVELS"
* Remind me again how Sifu Rick Spain ranks his students?

hehe just give up sun, argueing with me is like paddling a boat upstream. Its no fun and if you dont keep up a constant paddle you will soon be back where you started :)

hehe BTW david
You could have answered both questions easily, i trust your knowledge of your own system and respect you as a fellow martial artist. Its Sun over here im picking on ;)

lol VTS
hehe your one cool dude :)
I really have to get back up to Newcastle to visit a friend of mine ( she is worth the drive alone ) and ill be sure to try and look you up while im there.
My respect for WC has been happily renewed thanks to my new sparring partner who is proving to be quite a good match:)
His footwork is fast and fluent and he positions himself well hardly ever getting locked up or allowing his structure to break. He is also a fast sob and his reflexs are first rate.
lol how is this for a laundry list of injurys just from todays sparring session.
I have noteably better control than him and we both know it so useualy i pull punches that he 'accidently' hits with.

Him
Bruised ribs, sore chest, black shins and is having trouble forming a fist thanks to constant palm slaps to the bicept.
Me
Bruised ribs, sore nose, sore shins and my chin hurts :(

In one session i copped...
An elbow to the nose...
Several backhands and punches to the side of the jaw.
To many punches to the mid section to count

He copped
A double leg sweep on a tiled floor, very sore guts thanks to constant palms. At one point i decided to show him Hung Ga and began punching his attacks causing bruising all over his arms (though he didnt realise till later) and also using pheonix fists which he didnt believe in.
LOL here is the exact converstation...
Me "pheonix fists are great but a bit brutal for sparring"
Him " I can believe they actualy work"
Me " You just change the mechanic a little its not like a normal punch"
Him "show me"
Then " That doesnt look like it would do much damage"
Me "trust me it hurts"
Him "ok then hit me with it"
Me "Ok what you want me to hit?"
Him " Hit my arm"
Me "errr ok"
After several blows dispite me not using full force or aiming anywhere in particluar he stops and says...
" Yeah ok i said ONE hit "
he wouldnt admit it to my face but either way that arm was not getting much use after that :cool:
Sorry to go on and on just had a cool day and have been sparring like this all week. My shins WRECK and whole body is basicaly getting used to being hit.
You watch i bet i get a broken limb over the next few weeks.