Pak Mei Video Program

What the world needs is a complete and concise, comprehensive video program on authentic pak-mei kung fu for those who don't have access to this art. I think the whole of the CMA community would benefit greatly.

Of course I also think the world needs topless car-hops and instant lasagna, so go figure.


Remember, I like eggs. :D

[tnwingtsun]

If you have never studied under a skilled Bai Mei Sifu,why bother?,as I have said before,you'd only be wasting your time,and then every fruit bat and con men would get ahold of these tapes and the system would end up like another TKD fastfood MAs,watered down without substance.

Tell that to Andy Troung, he DOES have a pak mei video correspondence program available (from what his site says) and everyone I talk to says he is the shiat man.
Besides, why worry about losing the quality of your art when those who aren't truly dedicated couldn't learn it anyway, and it doesn't affect your training with your sifu in the least no matter how ****ty everyone else's pak mei might end-up.
Your point of view is too much "old master monk secret style" thinking that actually ends-up killing-off most good arts through secrecy and unwillingness to share knowledge.
Reply however you like here. My opinion is unwaivering and it matters little to me what you might have to say on this topic.
Flame away man.

Remember, I like eggs. :D

[frosh2786]

whats this guys site for his video program? idl ike to check that out.

[tnwingtsun]

Where do you live?,the reason I ask is are you sooo far away that you cannot find a Bai Mei sifu?
If you are then check into a plane ticket and go to a Sifu and get your roots,what I'm trying to say that it is better to have a solid foundation.
You will not get what you need from videos(see the word need)unless you have face to face training.I understand your longing to see a program like this,I some what agree,before you get your feathers ruffled again a word of advice,you'll be better if you have a teacher that
you can study with,mine happens to be a 20 min. drive away,I got lucky,tapes are ok,but don't try to run before ya learn how to crawl.
I wish ya luck :p
Don't hate me cuz ya ain't me :)

[MoQ]

There are many people making claims based on BS and this WILL happen to Bak Mei.

I recieved a reply from Sifu Troung and he does offer a complete correspondence course covering Pak Mei to instructor level.
Tell Mr Troung he's destroying the art. Ofcourse, I would imagine your skills and experience in Pak Mei far outweigh his, right? ;)

[tnwingtsun]

You are still missing my point,I am sure that Troung's Bai Mei is good,THERE IS NO SUBSTUTE FOR HANDS ON TRAINING!!.PEROID!!!!,do you want to be good??,I'm trying to help you out but you tell me "to flame off",you can study those tapes 5 hours a day for 10 years,you cross hands with a first year student from my class and you're going to get hurt,end of story,if you're not hitting or getting hit or crossing hands how will you ever know?
His tapes may be great!!!
But I would suggest going to study under him,
But what would I know,I just got through with a 5 hour workout with a skilled Bai Mei Sifu,I got banged up and I did some banging myself,
you'll never get that from a tape,I tried to help you but you misunderstood me.No I don't think in terms of the secret monk thing,I'd like to help ya,thats why I asked you where you lived,maybe theres a Bai Mei Sifu close to you that you don't know about that I do,if there is I'll hook ya up.And speaking of eggs,always remember........
Ya got to crack some eggs to make an omlet
other wise you're just watching a movie.
Once again,I wish ya luck
PS,you're welcome at my school anytime
PEACE

[MoQ]

I was making a general statement and yes if the more subtle arts are traded for cash from the likes of you the arts are lost. Why don't you go walk in circles and stop causing trouble...

Tell it to Troung brother, tell it to Troung.

How about I walk circles around you? FYI, I have been involved in the CMA for almost 15 years man, and all I ever hear from you on this or any board is holier-than-thou I-am-so-great-everyone-else-is-stupid bull****. Are you sure you're not Ego Maximus?

Either way, I would safely say that Pak Mei is in far greater danger of being reduced to nothing through personal instruction with you than by video-correspondence with me. No amount of hands-on training could do anything for your obviosuly over-inflated ego. It is your type that will destroy the art.

To wingtsun...my bad. Perhaps I took your comments too harshly, but i'm so used to morons like MoQ and some others on here that it came across slightly flamed.
I agree, personal instruction is always the chosen method, however, there is no Pak Mei even remotely close to where I live. again, I've been involved in the CMA for almost 15 years however, and have researched Pak Mei and even briefly touched hands with a Pak Mei practitioner a few years back. I am confident that with my experience and Troung's teaching I will be just fine. I am no beginner by any stretch of the imagination, and my experience goes beyond just bagwazhang. At any rate, your point is well-taken.

MoQ...2 words...frontal labotomy.


Remember, I like eggs. :D

[Waidan]

Did one of MoQ's posts get deleted, or is BB freaking out for no particular reason?

I suppose video correspondance is better than NOTHING, but not by much. You'd probably be better off studying Stripmall-Fu locally than Bak Mei by mail.

Edit: I just realized that last paragraph looked like it was targeting BB. I actually meant "you" in the general sense.

[daniel boerma]

I am one of Sifu Andy Truong's senior Pak Mei students.

My Sifu’s committed to teaching Pak Mei in all of its entirety so that the fighting power & wisdom of Pak Mei is passed on to future generations. If you need further assurances, ask Fiercest Tiger, Biu Ji or Lungyuil.

I believe the Pak Mei style would actually benefit through the availability of forms on video tape - anything which gives potential students an insight into the style will help to spread the art.

Someone who is interested in PM but cannot get to a school can still pick up some of the PM fighting wisdom through the tapes. If they learnt from a tape & then sought out a Pak Mei school their familiarity with the style & techniques would speed their progress.

I am sure other PM schools would appreciate to see authentic PM forms demonstrated by someone of Sifu Andy’s calibre. Why not open up the style? Let’s see what each has & compare the inherent differences within different PM lineages. I have seen much *****ing on the forum about what is & what isn’t PM, I’d prefer to see what other PM lineages have in their repertoire.

I agree, this is no substitute for learning Pak Mei from a qualified Sifu. I am not too sure of the content my Sifu’s correspondence course, but I am sure he would either require a corresponding student to either come over for examinations &/or they would be only recognised as instructors who have learnt via correspondence. Potential students of a qualified correspondence instructor can make what they will of his/her qualifications – they’re not being mislead.

Some of you may be screaming, “what about the style!! People are bound to copy!! What is to stop anyone from claiming they know or can teach Pak Mei??”

What is important is not what forms you know but who you learnt them from – ie. your lineage.

I propose we move away from assessing a martial artist on the forms they know to assessing them on who taught them & what forms did they learn under this Sifu.

Why?

Many martial artists copy forms from video tapes or from books to fill out their syllabuses, or to inflate their egos (this has brought to mind a question I’d like answered - ShaolinMaster, what is your Pak Mei lineage?) but how can we stop them?

Many students may have learnt under a qualified Sifu but that does not mean they are recognised under the lineage. I think many kung fu instructors may have learnt for a few years, they then start their own style without being qualified as a representative of the style by their lineage. They may not have the full syllabus so they copy from books & videos. We can’t stop this, but we can ask “are you recognised as a representative of your style? Are you acknowledged as having a place in your lineage?”

How many Sifu’s can claim this? If they are accreditted by their lineage, these are the people we should listen to, they have the final say.

One last comment. It’s not the techniques, nor the forms that make Pak Mei powerful. True, the techniques are very effective, but what sets Pak Mei apart from other styles is its essence, its expression, its principles.

Clik on the URL below for Sifu Andy Truong's website.

http://www.firstlink.com.au/wahnam/index.htm

Peace

[MoQ]

Thankyou for the clearheadedness uncharacteristic of the Forum, but you have reiterated all of my concerns.

Sifu Truong is a highly respected teacher and nothing I've said was certainly not directed at him. Of course, the problem MAY be the fantasy that those "interested" are of a caliber worthy of training.

My experience has shown that people from- I COULD say especially Australia- have a very limited perspective on the LIES that some people are willing to spew in order to "get" something they can turn over for attention and $$ later.

Bak Mei shifus are the ones to make the decision, but its sad to see every dammm thing turned into a cash price as if thats any measure of something's value...

OBVIOUSLY, it's different on Oz, but in America, virtually everyone trying to make a buck off their CMA has padded their claims with dishonesty... all in the NAME of each individual's NEED and RIGHT to pretend to BE SOMEBODY... WATCH YER STEP.

It is impossible to prosecute phony shi fus in the US even if the teacher/lineage claimed is handy. It happens all the time and i can tell that getting videos from across the world sounds DELICIOUS to these peeps.

It's the "Cast NOT your Pearls before Swine" principle here people and if you don't know what this means, you WILL...

Let's all just reside to letting MoQ decide who is worthy and who is not worthy to inherit the various styles. Since he is obviously of the "highest moral character" (cough), and is so sure that most everyone else is a moron with no experience or judgement at all, I propose everyone be sure and check with him prior to learning anything, and then he in turn can make an assesment and decision as to whether or not you may proceed.

Remember, most all of us besides himself are swine who shouldn't be turned loose with anything of value. Of course he himself is deserving of it all.

MoQ, you are so gifted man, I only hope that one day I will be worthy to sit at your feet and feed from your falling crumbs.

Remember, I like eggs. :D

[lungyuil]

Moq,
I agree with you there are many out there who could not punch their way out of a bag & yet have all these videos out & giving black belts in two years.

However, why not give out real information to benefit those who can only learn by correspondence or do not want to leave their sifu & show disrespect by training under another sifu.

I also agree that videos do not take the place of a qualified sifu, but some may not have that luxury yet. When they can, seek out a sifu in the respectice style and refine their forms learnt.

Sifu Andy Troung has the real thing and many will benefit from learning from him.

Don't be so judgemental, not everyone is like Lacy.
:)

[billy_pilgrim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What the world needs is a complete and concise, comprehensive video program on authentic pak-mei kung fu for those who don't have access to this art. I think the whole of the CMA community would benefit greatly
[/quote]

What you actually mean is that you would benefit greatly, which may or may not be true, don't pretend to have any altruistic aims here.
NO ONE with a traditional system's best interests in mind would suggest that the art should become a commodity exchanged in a faceless transaction.
Not saying that is what Truong has in mind, or that such a thing will ever occur, but the notion that anyone with a valid checking account can gain access to authentic Bak Mei is downright scary.
I did check out Truong's site, and he certainly seems like a legitimate traditional Sifu (Bagwa, you may want to check out his code of conduct section for students), so I am somewhat confident in his ability to judge character and keep those who need to be at a very safe distance, so, good luck in your training Bagwa!

[billy_pilgrim]

Ngor Mei,
In a perfect world I would agree with you. Lineage should be the barometer, but in America, almost no one cares. No one cares where the info comes from or how they get it, just as long as they get it. It's all about them. These are the kind of people I'm concerned about.
Keep reading these forums if you don't believe me. Hell, keep reading this thread...

[fiercest tiger]

i do understand everybodys opinions, cause i have a Yau Kung Mun correspondance courses myself. its hard to say what the person is like and hard to judge someone. but this person that you may knock back could be a genuine person that does want to learn the system and the most important thing he could be your friend for life!!!

billy is right about meeting face to face, i talk with my students every day either by email, phone or msn messenger.

if andy sifu's correspondance course is full of good info and teaches students by sections etc. it can work!! he just needs to keep an eye on the students and run his business the right way so there can be no stuff ups where people can just take the knowledge and run.

andy sifu is after serious students, as am i, not people that will *******ize his bak mei or wah nam system. i know him personally and he does scan students and holds back if they are not in good character. he has to keep control over what he is giving out in his course.

ngor mei,
hows things? hope all is well with you! :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[fiercest tiger]

i have phoned a couple of people from kfo and had a good chat about kung fu, and have mad some good friends from kfo- then again ive made some enimies as well.......we cant please them all!

i hear you bro! :cool:

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[Kevin Barkman]

I'm just wondering...I don't hear many critisisms (sp?) out there about Sifu Yip Wing Hong (Dragon) and Sifu Kwong Man Fong (Bak Mei) for their efforts to promote the Arts....

I personally applaud their efforts - I have learned a tremendous deal about my Art through magazine articles, books, videotapes, and especially this forum. Whats wrong with that? Why shouldn't we be proud of our Arts and promote them as best we can? Why hide all our "secrets" under rocks - and BTW, what are all these "secrets" anyway?

You want to learn to kill someone? Buy a gun, take a kickboxing class - you'll learn a WHOLE lot faster!

I have never learned a form from a videotape - I respect my teachers and my Art too much for that. That doesn't mean I haven't greatly benefited from others sharing their knowledge.

The real secrets will ALWAYS be hidden - tucked safely away under the blankets called hard work, loyalty and an open mind.

Just my "two cents" - continue your good work, Sifu Truong!

Sifu Troung has already agreed to accept me as a correspondence student, and has furthermore invited me to visit his school, and extended an invitation to join his school as an active student via his correspondence program. We have shared numerous emails to which after evaluating my history and experience he has made the decision to accept me.
Gee Billy, I think someone's getting a bit hot under the white collar. Perhaps you should apply as well; perhaps you may learn something.

Say what you will, I couldn't care less. It is obvious that you are on the same level as MoQ and like him, if it were left up to you these arts would die off in your greedy, self-serving hands.

When I said this program would benefit the whole CMA community, I meant it, I did not mean myself alone. It is too bad that you are too narrow-minded and self-serving to see that.

Anyone with more than a brain-stem to work with can clearly see how this type of program can only serve to insure that the art of Pak Mei remains alive and out of the self-serving hands of morons like yourself exclusively.

Sounds to me like someone's afraid their precious art might be made available to more than their close-nit, self-approved group.

How truly sad for all of us.

Thank God for people like Sifu Troung. He is a man among men here. I think all of us should be eternally grateful that these arts are not left solely in the self-serving hands of people like yourself.

Flame away moron. I think your agenda is obvious to all, and your position painfully clear.

Remember, I like eggs. :D

[MoQ]

Oh you're right, you're quite a guy and Truong is a lucky man. I must commend you on your heartfelt altruism, my agenda does seem selfserving in comparison...

Glad to see you can at least nod at admitting the truth concerning your tight-ass approach to keeping the art "pure".

Perhaps eventually with some therapy, there may be a slight amount of hope for you.

Although I seriously doubt it.


Remember, I like eggs. :D

[billy_pilgrim]

In the west, there is a belief that simply because someone wants to learn something, they should. This is clearly not always the case, and Bagwa has thusfar been very kind to demonstrate this point for me. Thanks Bagwa!

BTW, just wondering if you showed Truong this thread, or perhaps the one you started in the Shaolin forum?

Ngor Mei, maybe you'd like to direct your Sifu to this discussion, perhaps he'd like to rethink a few things...

[fiercest tiger]

its good that you are accepted but dont ruin it by posting like this!

:)

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[billy_pilgrim]

Kevin & others,
I hear you, this isn't exactly an "either or" proposition. I don't think anyone is trying to tell Sifu Truong what he should or shouldn't do, nor is anyone suggesting that teachers can never put material on tape to give to students. People are just raising legitimate concerns about who should or should not be trusted with said material. And how exactly does one go about deciding the sincerity of someone from a few emails and an occassional phone call? I submit that it's very difficult and fraught with peril. But I'm sure he's a better judge of character than myself, so, like I said, my fears are allayed somewhat.

[fiercest tiger]

nice post, i blieve that we should give knowledge out, people like cloud one and sui fuw have problems with this. i said exactly the same thing about man kwong fong and wing lam, these guys have put tapes out why havent they complained to these masters. gealousy can be bugger! but something is better than nothing...even if its by video.

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[billy_pilgrim]

FT,
You think these posts are bad? Check the archives, Bagwa is being modest and affable here...

[tnwingtsun]

I agree with most of ya'll and disagree with most of ya'll(southeast USA talk,lol),most important,I've made some good friends on this forum.Friends that started out as enemys.
At first I was against the video issue,my concern
was that our system was/is in danger of being
watered down.
If you learn from video's and do good
cheers to ya.
If ya don't do good,oh well.......
There's the brotherhood of Bai Mei/Bak Mei/Pak Mei/YKM gate keepers that will keep this
precious art alive.
Enough bickering,lets get together and keep this alive,for the next generations
Excuse my spelling,its been a long day.

[billy_pilgrim]

TN is right about the gate keepers, Bak Mei is not on any endangered systems list, the art is very much alive, and has been kept so by the hard work and sacrifice of those who love it, not by technology.
I guess I'm just shocked that any system with roots in antiquity has survived this long...I mean, how did Bak Mei and Lung Ying and Hung Ga and all these other fine systems make it to the present day without the entire curriculum being video taped?? I guess these past GM's and Sifu's who neglected to sell their art to anyone with a pocketfull of gold were just being "self-serving" :rolleyes:
Thank God for present day Americans and their clear thinking magnanimous ways, showing us all the folly and selfishness of the great masters of old.

Not only did Sifu Troung accept me, he also went on to say that learning by his videos is the same as being taught by him in person, and that they will be completely different from others' videos. He has made it abunduntly clear, that once I begin the program I will be considered an active student of his, and furthermore that when I complete the program I will be given full teaching rights to represent the system. If you've got a problem with that, then contact him directly. I guess you just like playing kung-fu police, where you patrol and report all infractions and set the standard for kung-fu excellence, judging who and who shall not be accepted. Well, brother, it ain't your call. So Sorry.

FT, I have not been the one flaming here, just defending our right to study what we wish. Perhaps you should turn your thoughts to billy and MoQ. They seem to think they hold the key to the gate of Pak Mei. Remember, it was Billy who accused me of having no concern for anyone but myself. Re-read this string my friend.

Billy, report whatever you like to whomever you like by whatever means you like. It's all simply acting out of jealousy due to the fact that I might actually inherit something that you had to go to the trouble of getting in person. Green does not suit you well.

It matters little to me from anyone's standpoint or opinion.

Billy, why don't you apply for position of moderator on all of the active forums here. Then you could fullfill your Barney-Fife post-patrol fantasy.

Say whatever you like, I'm inheriting your system, and that's the truth here.

Remember, I like eggs. :D

[fiercest tiger]

ok! im not against you, im for your right as well.

goodluck in your training

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[billy_pilgrim]

No, you're not the one flaming, you are just calling everyone who has raised legitimate concerns and asked legitimate questions "morons", but, like I said, judging from some of your previous "work" on these forums, you really aren't flaming here, usually you are much worse than this.
Before you, yet again, accuse me of being a moralist or being pious, please note, I actually think very little of myself, I just happen to think even less of you...
Your puerile reactions to everyone who has questioned this are on the order of a child fearing his favorite toy is about to be taken from him, when, in fact, no one least of all myself has ever said that you can't or shouldn't be allowed to embark on this endeavor if you are sincere.
I am actually glad that Truong has agreed to take you under his wing, you are clearly in need of some direction and I think he can provide it, I just hope there is far more on those tapes than mere forms. He certainly has his work cut out for him...
I also think it's interesting you assume I too study Bak Mei, wouldn't that make us brothers of a sort? Curious how you choose to address your training brothers, but I'm sure that's something Truong can work out with you...
I am also wondering about the "Bagwa"...are you planning on dropping this, or will you do both at the same time? What's going on? You study with Erle in Oz also, by tape as well I assume? Have you now purchased every tape in his catalog and are now looking to add yet another complete system to your collection? Once you have all of Truong's Bak Mei, what's next on the agenda? What will you dabble in after this?
Yes, I think it's sad that a system like Bak Mei can be relegated to nothing more than a single shelf in your extensive Kung Fu vault, but, as you have previously pointed out, it's not my call...
I think it's great that Truong has authorized you to teach, and I am sure that you will no doubt look to profit off the art in whatever way you can. But, again, what about the Bagwa??? Setting up shop in a strip mall and teaching Bagwa AND Bak Mei, with nothing more than a tenuous video attachment to either??? God bless America...

[billy_pilgrim]

Oh, and I AM curious, DID you happen to mention to Truong that you post on this forum and does he know your handle? I asked these questions previously and you ignored them, they weren't rhetorical if you were confused.
You needn't worry about me reporting anything, I am certain that you were sweet as sugar in all of your emails with Truong. Did you completely avoid using the phrase "pig f*cker"? That must have been difficult for you...

[GreyMystik]

if someone learns by video and is a competent practitioner and their gungfu is good, does that make them less of a gungfu man? does that make their art any less useful or 'complete'?

[TAO YIN]

If someone can advance their kung fu knowledge through video that's great. Practice is practice.
:)

[billy_pilgrim]

You guys are right. Whatever benefits the individual practicioner is all that matters. If there is the possibilty the art could be cheapened or harmed, however remote, so what, as long as the individual can learn Bak Mei without getting off the couch, that's all that matters. My priorities are clearly way off here, you'll have to forgive me...

[billy_pilgrim]

Haven't we learned anything from Karate???
Everyone decries the gross commercialization and "watering down" that has plagued the Japanese systems, the so-called "McDojos" ever present in the west. But when it's something really cool that they want, like Bak Mei, they're all willing to abandon the established protocol and jump on the corporate bandwagon simply so that they can get their hands on some. I'm merely asking some questions and advising a little caution, that's all, but do whatever you want...the traditions are almost dead in the west anyway.

[Bastet]

i agree with billy - caution is the key...

if it is done properly with the right people, then it can work. the videos cannot be mass produced. it must be treated the same as if this person was training in the kwoon. the teacher needs to get to know the student, anything of value will only be given to those students that show dedication and loyalty to both sifu & system.

it is inevitable that in the future there will be videos of every form of every style available... there is nothing we can do about it - it is just the way the world is heading. isnt it better that there is legitimate courses from respected sifus available amongst all the trash?

you have to remember that even in a face to face school situation, people can still leave & use whatever they have learnt in any way they want.

oh, and ditto on billys comments on bagwaboxer...

blessed be,
a.

[CLOUD ONE]

To all those who learn off video.
Is this a two way thing?
What I mean is does the students return a video of themselves doing these forms, techniques, two- man practice?

If they don't, how does the Sifu know what is to be taught to them next?

If you teach Jik Bo as your first form (as an example) what is the use of teaching the next form
if the students can't do TTFC and there body posture isn't there, they have no GING, these are but a few of things to mention.
Please enlighten us how you can tell????

[billy_pilgrim]

Bastet,
Everything I was trying(and failing) to say in my many rambling diatribes all in one concise post. A big "thank you" and hoping you post more often, or I less, either one...
As most know, traditional Sifu's have almost always been willing to work with those who express a sincere desire to learn, regardless of the distance that separates them, whether this means seminars or workshops or videos. So, I have no problem with the medium, I guess I just don't like the fact that it's advertised. As I said, most are willing to work with you privately on an individual basis, tailoring something to suit you specifically, but once I see the advertising I have horrific visions of a warehouse filled with teamsters stuffing "jik bo" into an envelope and sending off to a name in a database. I don't think this will be the case with Truong, I've heard nothing but good things about the man, but what about others with far less scruples???
The problem with the advertising is that it's designed to draw in those who might only be curious, and not necessarily committed, or those who are merely looking to add to a collection...and this is not a good thing.

[TAO YIN]

WOAHHHHH!!!!!!

Forgive my earlier statement. I didnt read all earlier posts nor realize that this program runs until SIFU.

Billys right. Mass production and selling of Bai Mei, without any sort of personal exchange...THATS TERRIBLE!

BAGWA...Are you serious, or just interested in the name???

THANK YOU

[daniel boerma]

Hello to all my Bak Mei brothers!!

BagwaBoxer,
Sifu Andy has indicated to me that if you have completed the Instructor course you would be acknowledged by Andy as a Wah Nam instructor teaching Bak Mei. This does not mean you would be recognised as a Bak Mei style representative under Andy's lineage. Sifu Andy also disagrees with your statement "videos is the same as being taught by him in person"; Sifu has stated he will do his best to ensure what he teaches in the video is complete but this does not compare to being taught in person. Pls refrain from continuing to take part in spiralling slanging-matches - check out Sifu's Creeds on his website below.

http://www.firstlink.com.au/wahnam/wahnam.htm

BillyPilgrim, CloudOne,
Regarding BagwaBoxer, Sifu has indicated "Good can to turn bad, bad can turn to good - everyone deserves a chance".

Sifu Andy has indicated the video tapes sent to BagwaBoxer would be tailored to his level. No mass-produced tapes would be distributed. Tapes would be sent across & BagwaBoxer would he required to send tapes back to show his progress. Sifu Andy's next tape would then focus on what elements need to be improved & what is to be taught next.

Knock yourselves out!!

Hello FT!!
Good to finally be online! God you're a ****-stirrer! When are you in town next? Been groovin lately?

Peace

[fiercest tiger]

im well thanks, no havent done to much grooving. i think we are due for big night out!!! :cool:

ive been busy lots of training and teaching. speaking of hows your training going? ;)

im not a sh!t stirrer!!! i tell how i see it! :p

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[tnwingtsun]

That traffic on 278 really sucks :D

[MoQ]

FT-Telling it how you see it is what is called "stirring the sh*t"...

Truong certainly has the "right" to distribute "whatever", but character is difficult to gauge across the world... and some folks are not prepared for the level of BS Artistry on this side...

BagwaBoxhead is no longer with us, but he'll be back(Drunken Master?). If he isn't qualified to even be allowed to post on a public forum, then what kind of correspondence program is tailored for him?

The more people defend this... the more suspicious I am... I don't care what Truong does if his master doesn't, but what possible good can come from publicly accepting a cancelled troll as a student? Now everyone knows all is available to all with no requirements(wouldn't want to leave anyone out, would we?).

I've seen this happen on this very forum. The quality of a person has no place in the big mouthed asskickers crowd. Pathological liars readily accepted...

Man, the ancestors would rather the arts DIE OUT THAN FALL INTO THESE HANDS.

But, I realize I am the outsider here. In most peeps perfect world, everything is available for everyone to do what they will and it can all be turned over for profit at every corner so everyone's happy... happy happy happy
Good luck to all of you!

[billy_pilgrim]

TN,
I'll just say this, I have a 10 mile commute and the drive time is anywhere between 60-90 mins. Aren't you glad you're 100 miles removed from this?

[fiercest tiger]

your ahead of your time, didnt you invent sh!t stirring?
hey! do you now who drunken master is? :D

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[MoQ]

Maybe not boxhead... probably another version of some other *******Masters we have lurking about the dark corners of this place...

[beautiful]

MoQ,
Who the f*ck are you to tell who can teach what.
Do you know what MoQ mean? I learnt similar form, it is called MoMayDick - high form!! Maybe in your system!! Ask your sifu.

"Man, the ancestors would rather the arts DIE OUT THAN FALL INTO THESE HANDS."

The ancestors don't care - they're dead you fool!! They may turn in there graves.. I wonder what your ancestors would be doing now?... maybe MoMayDick!! Ask your sifu.another higher form call Momaycant, very advance form, it is the lost arts??? Not many lost arts left! :D

[MoQ]

you thought of a new name yet? :rolleyes:

Yes, the ancestors are dead. They HAVE though, thought far enough ahead to arrange for guardians. These people can be anybody, from any race, but they are mainly interested in keeping valuables away from pigs that just wanna mudwrestle or dogs looking around for a rat to tear up.


And... I say anything I want, just like you. Sorry to make you squirm, I didn't know you were trying to get away with something... No need to act like a bug under a magnifying glass though, no one has to listen to me... most times they probably shouldn't! I think I admitted that I'm the outsider on this one. RELAX, MOST PEOPLE FEEL THE SAME AS YOU DO!

[This message was edited by MoQ on 03-16-01 at 09:23 AM.]

[MoQ]

beautiful, you come out of nowhere talking cr@p and are taken for a troll(who often just hop back in after a quick namechange, following expulsion). I COULD be mistaken. Perhaps you ARE new. Well, opinions flow like wine around here(like it does in places where wine is flowing everywhere), but no threats or obscenities or you will be forced to come up with a name that's even more misleading...

[tnwingtsun]

Yea its nice to be far from it,but when I contract out to GA.Power I have to deal with it,I'll be going on a job in a couple weeks to either Cartersville,Rome or Plant Jack, Indust.Bvd Ex. 15,278 west, grrrrrrr,takes me 45 mins just to get to 75 north from ex. 15 on the way back,have to get a hotel this time :D

[NyHc]

...don't want to be involved in the arguements on this thread.
My opinion, in general, on videos is;
They make an excellent "companion' for someone who is already training. My Sifu is going to teach me this form and that form. I am going to do/see what he tells/shows me. But, he won't be around when I'm practicing outside of school. I can throw in his videos anytime and POSSIBLY pick up something that I didn't notice before.
That's all.
To learn any style - from scratch - from a video tape is ridiculous, no matter what styles one has studied previously.

"Don't be sorry, be careful"

[MoQ]

Dammmit- I get tricked again into respeonding to these gawdamm trolls... if y'all check- it becomes clear that "beautiful" has an email addy of wulinmaster@hotmail!!! HUH? WuLinMaster? Dreamlover??

You mean ShaolinMaster??? That POS??? DAMMMIT!

[beautiful]

Hi MoQ,

Do not waste your time, keep practising???

Shaolin Woman is very beautuful

[beautiful]

Hi MoQ,

You fool, you *****, why you put my hotmail address on the internet which interferes with my privacy, what is your problems.-Pousti Malaka, Funcoolo, Sharamoota, You moronic dipstick, halfwitted jack-ass. Dont take it so hard

Beautiful shaolin woman

[beautiful]

Hi MoQ,

You fool, you *****, why you put my hotmail address on the internet which interferes with my privacy, what is your problems.-Pousti Malaka, Funcoolo, Sharamoota, You moronic dipstick, halfwitted jack-ass. Dont take it so hard

Beautiful shaolin woman :D

[beautiful]

Hi MoQ, i missed the last message, if you come back to look for me, make 2 graves - one for you, one for me.

I am always beautiful

My name is joke, my kung fu is not

Shaolin Woman

[chessboxer]

greetings,


i agree with NyHc. If you are already learning a form from a certain system, then you get a video of that same form and look at it, it works out better. Trying to learn any system without anyone there in person to give you hands on info wont work to well. You miss certain things a video can never show a person.

[MoQ]

less than beautiful - you gotta cease the trolling. If you are NOT the WuLinLegend troll, then I guess it's just a coincidence that you are a troll too.... and, you are the one that posted your email... :rolleyes:

How come everyone who brags about their gung fu skills can't even control themselves???

anyway, take a chill pill or find another venue for your "beautiful" BS...

[tonfas]

Hello Amigo - MoQ

You are doing all the talking, not me.

You talk the talk, but can you walk the walk.

A man's got to know his limitations.

You call me BS, yes i am the woman, ofcourse i am the best service, is that what you meant? Do you want me to service you??? free samples.

Sorry, i am still beatiful

Shaolin Woman

[MoQ]

Man I hate it when that happens... :D

My only hope is that it wasn't on purpose.
HAHA- What's up with this Aussie Troll Syndrome?

ROTFLMFAO! Tonfas you have just made my DAY!!! hahaha

[This message was edited by MoQ on 03-19-01 at 06:56 PM.]

[beautiful]

Hi MoQ,

You win, i lose, nothing to say.

Atlease i see you happy, do not take it so hard, you known one things, BS is very important in this forum. otherwise why people used difference name???

The shaolin woman :)

[CLOUD ONE]

Ngor Mei,
There seems to be some confusion in your posts. If Andy Truong teaches BAK MEI to instructer level( which means to me the receipient has the authority to call himself a BAK MEI sifu )why would he/she not be recognised by his BAK MEI lineage. Only a Wah Nam instructer???

Your Sifus statement "Good can turn to bad, bad can turn to good-everyone deserves a chance"
Have you asked him who is resposible???

From the creed of your kung fu club, how would Andy know his video students upheld these???

Does Andy go through Bai See with his students???

[fiercest tiger]

sifu andy represents wah nam, he teaches bak mei under wah nam. although he teaches bak mei, dragon and jow gar he cannot say he is bak mei when teaching other systems. thats why all his students are bak mei instructors under wah nam kung fu academy.

i maybe wrong, ill try and find out!

peace

bakmeimonk@hotmail.com

[MoQ]

CLOUD1/sui-fuw, I don't know what you guys think you're tryin' to save? Wing Chun, T'ai Chi, Bak Mei... it's all just gonna be pieces of a personal crosstraining regimen pretty soon. If everybody is just competing for attention "No, look at ME, buy MY products!", all is laid out for the buzzards to pick at.

This BagwaBoxer turned out to be a Major Troll "ironvest" and even confessed to being the old "bakmae_" troll from a few mos. back! This whole thread is me takin' cr@p from Truong's peeps for trying to keep people like Truong and the bakmae_ troll apart. All I hear from Truong is an indirect "Why's MoQ messin' with my business?"...

[kempo_jujutsu]

just thought i'd throw my two cents in.
i've spoken to many "long distance" instructors from kempo, karate, wing chun, hsing i chuan, and more...they all are very well respected because of rank, and lineage wise. and they all told me personally that people can learn from video. if the videos are set up correctly and the student applies themselves, why not? why does it matter if the learning is in person or by video? the question is, can the instructor properly convey the information via video? and can the student comprehend it?

all of them have tests...most insist that for instructor level or black belt that the student test in person. and some of them insist the you go to their school periodically (maybe once or twice a year) for personal training/testing. and all of them insist you have a partner. how good you become is not their problem but yours! if you only play chi sao with one person, of course your results will be limited. but who really does that? and most of the time they have and insist you use correspondance with your instructor via email, telephone, occasional trips...even video confrence online.

lazy people will simply be that....too lazy to train themselves. it takes more motivation to get up and watch the video and train yourself than it does to simply go to class with everyone else. it also takes more organizational skills, especially if you start a small study group or something.

sure there is not substitute for dojo/kwoon training...and there are alot of benefits to be gained by simply practicing with other people. but that is not to say someone simply cannot learn the art from properly formatted videos. i even had one 9th dan pioneer in the okinawan martial arts tell me his long distance students actually learn and progress FASTER than his regular students because they train anytime they want to, they have the instructor at their fingertips. a kenpo instructor said the same thing publicly, sometimes the video students pick it up BETTER. they are all tested. because there are not schools in a persons area....they seem to want it more than someone who lives down the road from the school. (generally speaking that is)

the hsing i instructor told me his videos arent necessarily a home study program, but it is possible....the bottom line is this...................can you pass the test?

if all of these respected masters of their various arts say it works, who are we to argue?

my thing is simply that...alot of videos are not all that INSTRUCTIONAL...but demonstrative in nature. but if the system is designed from the ground up to be instructional, step by step....i don't see why it wouldnt work.

if these guys are willing to stake their reputations on this method...who are we to argue with them?

[B-Rad]

Wow... 7 years... :eek:

[Drake]

But he remembers it like it was yesterday...