What is JKD?

[Chris99]

Hello All,

What exactly is JKD? Is there a common training methodology? If so what is it?


Have a Great Day,
Chris

[yenhoi]

JKD is a name Bruce Lee gave to his PERSONAL fighting style.

No there is not 'a common training methodology' - unless you count the JKD protion of Dan Insonantos academy.

Sifu lamar Davis will disagree, but he is wrong.

There was only one person qualified by Bruce Lee to teach Bruce Lee, and that was/is Dan Insonanto.

[rogue]

RAYSYNC, calling RAYSNYC, we're on!;)

[jmdrake]

Hello Yenhoi,

I have to ask, just what is the "JKD portion of Dan Inosanto's academy"? I've looked at his website and on his training schedule he doesn't list JKD. He does, however, list "Jun Fan Gung Fu" as well as "Jun Fan Kickboxing". That is most interesting since Jun Fan Gung Fu was what Bruce was calling his art in Seattle before he came up the name "JKD". So is all that Dan teaches in that class just the Seattle period stuff?

Regards,

John M. Drake


Originally posted by yenhoi
JKD is a name Bruce Lee gave to his PERSONAL fighting style.

No there is not 'a common training methodology' - unless you count the JKD protion of Dan Insonantos academy.

Sifu lamar Davis will disagree, but he is wrong.

There was only one person qualified by Bruce Lee to teach Bruce Lee, and that was/is Dan Insonanto.

[yenhoi]

I dont think 'JKD' is an option to train at the Dan Insonanto academy. Its invite only, from the academy. So you might be there learning/training Jun Fan Gung Fu, and express interest, and eventually recieve an invite to attend and watch, then eventually participate. I gather this info mainly from the JKD commentaries - Dan Insonanto. Also Dan Insonanto in seminars and sometimes on video will speak about JKD 'backyard' training - and he is not talking about his expierences with Bruce, rather his own backyard training.
I could be wrong.

There are other Bruce Lee students that I would love to learn from, most notably Ted Wong. He is the only 'real' JKD student of bruce lee's that did not have any expierence in another art before training with Bruce Lee.

Also you will find that Dan Insonanto has also awarded 'associate Instructor' degrees to many of his students - not only in Kali, but also in JKD, and Jun Fan Gung Fu.

[jmdrake]

Hmmmm....

So in other words, you aren't really sure what Dan actually teaches as JKD, but you are sure that Lamar is somehow "wrong"? Interesting. Also from what you are saying you believe that Dan knows and teaches JKD, but he also knows and teaches other things that are not JKD. Guess what? That's what Lamar says! Here is an except of an interview with Lamar taken several years ago.

==============================================
James Bishop: Isn’t it true that you were the first person to ever bring Dan Inosanto to Alabama for a seminar?

Sifu Davis: Yes, I sponsored a seminar for Dan Inosanto in 1980. Richard Bustillo came with him and assisted him with the seminar.

James Bishop: What was taught at the seminar, and how did you feel about the material?

Sifu Davis: Although I was only interested in the Jun Fan Gung Fu and Jeet Kune Do material that Sifu Inosanto had learned from Bruce Lee, when asked what I wanted him to cover, I told him to cover anything that he wanted to. I ended up being very disappointed in the seminar, because it was three-quarters Filipino escrima and one-quarter Jun Fan Wing Chun. I loved the Jun Fan material, but I didn’t really care for the Filipino stuff!

James Bishop: Wait a minute! I thought you were already training in escrima. Why didn’t you care for that portion of the seminar?

Sifu Davis: That is my point! I was already training in escrima! I wanted to learn more about what Bruce Lee taught Dan Inosanto, not more about the Filipino martial arts!

James Bishop: Did you have any other opportunity during Sifu Inosanto’s visit to learn more about what Bruce Lee taught?

Sifu Davis: Yes, and that I was pleased with! After dinner Sifu Inosanto and Sifu Bustillo showed me some of the things that they had learned from Bruce Lee. This was definitely the best part of their visit for me! Sifu Inosanto had the chance to work with some of the equipment that I had designed specifically for my Jun Fan/Jeet Kune Do training, and he was very pleased with it! I still have all of the photos (somewhere) that I took of him working with my equipment.
==============================================

Now this is my own personal take on the subject. I definitely believe that Dan Inosanto has something to offer the aspiring JKD practitioner. But I don't think he is the only one. (You already mentioned Ted Wong. I also think other Bruce Lee students have something to offer.) Also I don't think that JKD is defined by what Dan Inosanto does. I think it's defined by what Bruce Lee did. I also think that the confusion on this isn't coming from Dan. But there are people who are misinterpreting what he does and says. Here is a comical example. Suppose someone attended a "JKD" seminar only to be taught Yoga? They might say "this isn't JKD". But some in the crowd might argue "Yoga is taught as Dan's school. Therefore Yoga must be a part of JKD." The more I learn about what Dan actually does the more I am convinced that the "original versus concepts" fights are really much ado about nothing.

Regards,

John M. Drake


Originally posted by yenhoi
I dont think 'JKD' is an option to train at the Dan Insonanto academy. Its invite only, from the academy. So you might be there learning/training Jun Fan Gung Fu, and express interest, and eventually recieve an invite to attend and watch, then eventually participate. I gather this info mainly from the JKD commentaries - Dan Insonanto. Also Dan Insonanto in seminars and sometimes on video will speak about JKD 'backyard' training - and he is not talking about his expierences with Bruce, rather his own backyard training.
I could be wrong.

There are other Bruce Lee students that I would love to learn from, most notably Ted Wong. He is the only 'real' JKD student of bruce lee's that did not have any expierence in another art before training with Bruce Lee.

Also you will find that Dan Insonanto has also awarded 'associate Instructor' degrees to many of his students - not only in Kali, but also in JKD, and Jun Fan Gung Fu.

[RAYNYSC]

Hey Drake,

Just for the record Dan Inosanto does teach Kali-Eskrima, Kuntao-silat, Pentjak Silat Serak, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Shoot Wrestling just to name a few.....
Dan has never tried to pass any of these system's off as Jun Fan gung fu & Jun Fan kickboxing each of the system's mentioned are taught separately.... Just so you know Dan doesn't only do the Seattle period stuff but he also knows the Oakland & Los Angeles curriculum's as well....:D

A fighter will block where a master will attack

[RAYNYSC]

What's up Rogue long time.... :D

[jmdrake]

Hello Ray,

I realize that Dan also teaches the Oakland and Los Angeles stuff (after all, his training was during the Los Angeles period). What I was wondering about is what he calls "Jun Fan Gung Fu" and why? While Bruce was alive Jun Fan Gung Fu was what he called his art before he coined the term "JKD". And I've always associated that term with the Seattle period. Also what is taught in the "Jun Fan Kickboxing" classes that aren't taught in the "Jun Fan Gung Fu" classes? And in his tape series he has a tape on "Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jeet Kune Do Kickboxing". Why wasn't that tape called "Jun Fan Gung Fu/Jun Fan Kickboxing" like the classes at his school? It may seem like I'm "nitpicking over names", but really I'm seeking clarification. You see, I agree with your assertion that Dan does not try to "pass any of these systems off as Jun Fan Gung Fun/Jun Fan Kickboxing." But I'm also beginning to thing that Dan hasn't tried to pass them off as "Jeet Kune Do Kickboxing" either. But I think there are people, both original and concepts, that are confused about what he does. I know I used to be. This confusion came from talking to people who claimed to be "JKD concepts" but who I know doubt had the "concept" of what Dan was doing.

Regards,

John M. Drake


Originally posted by RAYNYSC
Hey Drake,

Just for the record Dan Inosanto does teach Kali-Eskrima, Kuntao-silat, Pentjak Silat Serak, Muay Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Shoot Wrestling just to name a few.....
Dan has never tried to pass any of these system's off as Jun Fan gung fu & Jun Fan kickboxing each of the system's mentioned are taught separately.... Just so you know Dan doesn't only do the Seattle period stuff but he also knows the Oakland & Los Angeles curriculum's as well....:D

A fighter will block where a master will attack

[apoweyn]

jmdrake,

first of all, nicely said. i really like your take on this subject.

here's my take (though i warn you that i haven't stayed current with the politics of this for a long time and don't intend to start now):

guro dan seems to want to preserve the idea of research and development espoused by bruce lee, where other practitioners prefer to concentrate on the exact method of bruce lee. neither is right or wrong, to my mind.

but if guro dan is envisioning that overarcing process of research and development as JKD, then he's presumably defining that one segment of research and development that bruce lee himself undertook as being jun fan. in contrast, if the 'original JKD' practitioners are focused on bruce's actual physical method, then THAT is JKD to them and the need for the term 'jun fan' fades (or never crops up in the first place).

as for 'jun fan gung fu' and 'jun fan kickboxing', my best guess would be that, given the emphasis on personal expression, etc., perhaps the distinction is made so that people can make more informed choices about what they train. as i understand it, bruce's practice was informed at different times more heavily by wing chun or by boxing. i'd also thought that 'jun fan gung fu' refers to bruce lee's modification of his wing chun background, while 'jun fan kickboxing' is more focused on his thoughts on boxing.

in the big picture, presumably, these elements are to be put together seamlessly. but i'd guess that the thinking was and is to provide people with informed choices about their progress in the beginning.

as i said, that's my guess. it doesn't represent any view more official or authoritative than that.

cheers.


stuart

[apoweyn]

[bump]

[yenhoi]

Sorry, forgot about this thread.

My input earlier was not meant to be what I thought was fact, just what I thought. As far as Dan Insonanto teaching JKD in 'his backyard' is just what Ive been told/mentioned to by my sifu.

My comments on Sifu lamar Davis were based on my interaction and 'lurking' on the JKD hardcore forum, he states fairly often that there is a cut-and-dry training rountine, and other matter-of-fact things like the term 'sifu' etc to the art called Jeet Kune Do. I disagree, and it seems from the comments above that Sifu Davis's claims are not exactly accepted by everyone.

Sorry again, my response is limited in time and thought, its time to go punch things and people. (Time to go train etc)

[apoweyn]

yenhoi,

no worries. i wrote this largely in response to jmdrake's previous post. not a counterpoint, exactly. more a guess, based on how i'd answer the question if it were me naming these various things.


stuart

[yenhoi]

You are right tho, ap.

Guro Dan is obviously more interested in passing on the research process, as opposed to passing on the knowledge of Bruce Lees fighting method.

Hopefully I will get a chance to ask Guro Dan some questions, as I expect to meet him some time this summer - My sifu is taking me to his academy and some others over the summer break.

[apoweyn]

yeah? that's excellent. i'm envious.

i've only met him a couple of times (years ago), but i've always liked guro dan's style. his outlook, teaching style, etc.


stuart

[jmdrake]

Hello all,

Stuart, thanks for the kind words. It's nice to be able to discuss this topic without getting into an "I'm right, you're wrong" shouting match. :) I think that you're on the money about the reasons for the different terminology as well as Dan's thoughts about JKD being about research. Everything that I've been able to read from Dan (espeically on his website) is that he believes that the JKD practitioner should have the base (which some call "original JKD") and then branch out into his own. What I think confuses people is two things. One there are people branching out who don't really have the base down. Two, there are people branching out in ways that don't fit the base they already have.

Yenhoi, clearly there are people who disagree with Sifu Davis, though I'm not one of them. And while you might find this surprising, everything that I've seen/read from Dan Inosanto supports the idea that even <i>he</i> agrees with Sifu Davis that there is a "cut and dry" training routine. The difference is that he calls this routine Jun Fan Gung Fu/Kickboxing instead of Jeet Kune Do. (And in his video tape series he calls it Jun Fan Gun Fu/Jeet Kune Do Kickboxing). While Dan is interested in researching other arts to compare to the base and see what might fit in, Lamar is more concerned with further exploring the base and refining the movements in a sort of "daily decrease". At least that is my current understanding. Of course you can ask Sifu Inosanto what he thinks is cut and dry when you meet him in person.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[apoweyn]

john,

i agree. JKD has far too much shouting and fussing as is. i'm glad that you and i have a chance to do away with that nonsense. anyway, i think you may just have pegged a BIG source of the confusion.

"One there are people branching out who don't really have the base down. Two, there are people branching out in ways that don't fit the base they already have."

i had noticed that jkd concepts, done poorly, quickly turns into a 'style of the month' club. without the insight and practice to internalize new things AND reconcile them with existing ideas, it turns into mess pretty quickly, i suppose.


stuart

[Sensei Kunz]

The following are just my observations regarding all that has been stated to this point. I feel a need to response since I have communication and personal knowledge of the indviduals mentioned in this post. I'll try and be brief!

My sifu Lujan trained under Inosanto and Lee, I have spoken via phone and e-mails with Sifu Davis, and have trained with Tim Tackett recently and wish to state that Inosanto has a business to run. I have high regards for him and think he is doing a great job bring the arts (plural) to the masses, of course at a very high price ($).

Sifu Davis teaches from my understanding on a one on one or small group basis weekly. However, he has taken his techings to the masses as a business venture in seminars and travels quite a bit and he is doing well. His knowledge is extensive in JKD. Yes, he has a foundation belief and is right in doing so. JKD after all has a strong foundation of structure or it is not JKD. Sifu Davis I regard highly and respect him the same.

Regarding Inosanto as the "only" or sole heir to JKD teachings, I personally disagree. Bruce Lee gave many private lessons and group lesson in his locations. Si Gung Bruce Lee always trained his students on a very persoanl and private level. There are many besides the above mentioned instructors that teach JKD that are well qualified such as Tim Tackett or Bob Bremer.

Tim Tackett recently has found a grappler who incorporates the concepts of JKD in his groundwork methods. I have personally attend quite a few session and have had the privialge of having them both at my school and I can tell you I sometimes even catch myself with my mouth open on the techniques that are being taught. I truly believe that JKD must include ground-work techniques to be full operational as a full fighting combatant.


Always Your Servant

Sensei Kunz
http://www.selfdefenseforyou.com