What is Lau Gar Kung Fu?

[fungku]

I was wondering if anyone has any info on Lau Gar kung fu?


Thanx

[sifuchuck]

Lau Gar, or Lau Family is considered one of the original 5 Southern family styles. I have been told that the style died out, forms were lost or forgotten, and that the remaining forms were incorporated into the Hung Gar curriculum. I have also heard that that guy in Shaw Bros. "Master Killer" (I can never remember his name!) is a descendent of the Lau Family. I don't know how much truth there is to any of this, but I do know that there is a Lau Gar school in Scotland! Yeah, that's right, Scotland! I don't know, I just somehow find that funny. And interesting, very interesting. :D

[Ben Gash]

How many times do I have to write this? Lau Gar is a short hand system, sort of halfway between Bak Mei and Hung Gar. As far as I know, the Lau Gar forms in Hung Gar are separate, coming from the Lau family made famous by the members with Shaw Brothers.
Lau Gar is probably the dominant single Chinese style in Britain, having been one of the first taught openly, and by gaiining exposure through great success on the point fighting circuit. ( Strangely enough, many of the big names from the last generation of Lau fighters, Neville Wray, Clive Parkinson, Kevin Brewerton etc were American).
Many people say that Lau Gar in this country is not a true style and was made up by Jeremy Yau, however I have read in sources by people with no love of Jeremy Yau that there are teachers in Hong Kong (I've got the name of one of them at home somewhere).

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[lausan]

I'm interested as to where you get all your info on Lau Gar from?Do you, or have you ever practiced it?

Lausan :rolleyes:

[Serpent]

Neville Wray is not American - nor was he ever! He's from Birmingham, England originally.

Kevin Brewerton is American.

Clive Parkinson I never heard of.

[Serpent]

I think I have heard of Clive Parkinson. If it's the same guy that I'm thinking of then he's not American either, but also English.

[CPS]

The Lau brothers do NOT practise Lau Gar kungfu, but Hung Gar gungfu.

The father of Lau Gar Wing, Lau Saam, was a student of Lam Sai Wing.
He set up his own Hungga school, where he taught his sons and later Lau Gar Fai. Lau GAr Fai later was adopted and changed his name to Lau Gar Fai.

Lau Saam already played in a few movies (depicting LSW with Kwan Tak Hing as WFH)
His son Gar Wing also joined the movie industry. First he played in some movies, then became a director. Lau Gar Fai joined the movies later and is very famous as "the monk" in Shaolin movies.
Their most famous movie is "36 Chambers of Shaolin" which in America was released as "Master Killer". Lau Gar Wing was the director of that movie.

There are actually 5 Lau Ga .. brothers.
The others are not that famous.

The Lau family still teaches Hungga in Hong Kong.
Their Hungga does NOT contain the Lau Ga forms.
When Lau Saam learned from Lam Sai Wing these forms were not part of the system yet.

[Ben Gash]

Well they walk round talking in American accents all the time.
Lausan, I haven't really said a great deal. Tony Leung, who used to teach SPM and Hung Gar in Islington used to have a column in combat and a subscription only magazine called "The Roots of Kung Fu", and there was a big article in this on Lau Gar. Now Leung and Yau REALLY didn't get on (actually, there's quite a lot of people in the English CMA scene he didn't get on with), and so he wouldn't support the style if Yau made it up. Sadly I can't find that issue at the moment, but there was a Lau teacher in Hong Kong who was in the contributor's section of every issue, and I'll try to find one and post his name. Leung was going to try to get him over to teach a Lau Gar bench seminar, and to promote traditional Lau Gar. Sadly Tony Leung disappeared back to Hong Kong under something of a cloud before this could happen.
Interestingly enough, and linking with the thread on the KF forum, the lineage given in the article did go to Malaysia for a couple of generations.
No, I'm one of the few kung fu guys in England who's never studied Lau Gar.

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[sifuchuck]

Well, apparently til it takes. :D

Hey I'm glad you did Ben. And Charris--always great to hear from you! I for one really appreciate you guys responding with so much info--I'm always looking to fill in empty gaps in my knowledge and it's great when you can provide facts that enable me to set aside rumors and stories that are just plain made-up! I hope my thanks is enough to make up for the inconvenience of repeating yourselves! Thanks muchly.

Chuck

[Serpent]

Ben dude - you need to concentrate more on your accents :)

Either that or Neville has been spending altogether too much time with Kevin Brewerton. Neville Wray is not American, and never spoke in an American accent in the five years or so that he was my sifu!

[FIRE HAWK]

http://www.bknlaugar.fsnet.co.uk/

http://www.walsallkungfu.fsnet.co.uk/

http://www.laugar9.freeserve.co.uk/

[Ben Gash]

Probably the latter ;)
Anyway, that sifu's name is Yan Chu Mian (that's mandarin, could anyone translate it into cantonese, as that's almost certainly what he uses).

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[Andrew]

Tony Leung had to return to Hong Kong in order
to take care of relatives he has there.

[Colin]

Ben, Do you have any more info regarding this Lau Gar sifu from Hong kong?

[Ben Gash]

'Fraid not.
Here's some more Lau websites for those interested.
www.stafford-lau-gar.co.uk (http://www.stafford-lau-gar.co.uk)
www.laugar.co.uk (http://www.laugar.co.uk) (with syllabus info)
www.bkfa.org.uk (http://www.bkfa.org.uk)
www.laugar-kungfu.co.uk (http://www.laugar-kungfu.co.uk)

"Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice"
Lao Tzu

[Colin]

Hears a copy of some info I posted else where. Might just agree with you!
Well..........
So many different opinions.
I've Studied Lau Gar kuen in London for 12 years, and well OK i admit I fought in a few semi-contact tourneys as a beginner.but then I attended a summer camp with Master yau
back in '92 and have never looked back.
I sometimes dispair at the constant *****ing that seems to go on in the UK and elsewhere regarding Lau gar.
The system that contains many hand forms, first form if anything appears similar to beginning of Hung Gar's Tiger/Crane form.
Form 2 has similarities to Wing Chun first form (QUESTION) IS CENTRE LINE THEORY EXCLUSIVE TO WING CHUN?
Answer I don't think so!
Form 3. Maybe similar toBak mei as it contains only phoenix punches.
Need I go on?
OK .many more hand forms also many weapons.
Staff, broad sword, butterfly knives, spear, tiger fork, straight sword.
Now the big admittance!!!!!!!
Yes there is alot of Lau Gar instructors in UK teaching kickboxing, but this has a long history, back in the days when the kung fu guys had to enter karate tourneys
just to get a fight. Originally there were hardly any high kicks in Lau Gar 30 years ago,
but the story goes that a lau fighter could not score with his traditional kicks namely ngau lim toi, (sickle kick).
So the lau man proved that the kick was strong by breaking his apponents ribs.
the fighter was disqualified. So.... as one of the people in Lau had some experience of taewondo he started to use these kicks in compeitions however they are not part of the lau gar system except for comps.
The kickboxing is usually kept to seperate classes with the trad classes being smaller but with long timer loyal students.
So on a final note Lau Gar Kuen as taught by master Yau is very much a traditional southern style.
The difference is that he chooses to keep the real Lau Gar Kuen closer to himself.
Go train with the man and let your eyes and mind be opened.
Colin.........

[MarkS]

Colin:first form if anything appears similar to beginning of Hung Gar's Tiger/Crane form.

Is that not because thats where it comes from?

Colin:Maybe similar toBak mei as it contains only phoenix punches.

I hope you're not suggesting that Pak Mei only uses Phoenix Eye. :-)
Many systems use this fist, some in quite a different way to the 'drilling' strike of White Eyebrow.


My personal experince with Lau Gar is mostly from tournaments when I was younger (where I might add I had my point scoring ass severely whipped on many occasions). I have however been to four separate Lau Gar classes in four separate places and what I have seen is not traditional training but the semi contact type training, I have also had students in the past from Lau Gar. Fair enough then that the traditional style exists, and all power to it,I've just never seen it. I was under the impression that the Lau Gar in the UK was an offshoot from Hung Kuen. This was the subject of some discussion during an early British Kung Fu Council meeting where Jeff Hasbrook was present and performing in order to be accepted into the council.

Mark S

[Colin]

Mark,
Quote from "Complete guide to Kung Fu Styles" Jane Hallander. 'The only fist that White eyebrow uses is the phoenix eye fist' Does this mean that you are not training in pure traditional Bak Mei? ;^)

Colin...........

[MarkS]

Colin :Quote from "Complete guide to Kung Fu Styles" Jane Hallander. 'The only fist that White eyebrow uses is the phoenix eye fist' Does this mean that you are not training in pure traditional Bak Mei? ;^)

Oh dear, oh dear. Well I must be wrong then, couldn't possibly argue with the bible of chinese fighting arts. I wonder, is Lau Gar in that book?
The Pak Mei I study must be a load of old rubbish then, and to think all this time I thought it was real. ****.
How we can be fooled so easily by believing that the style/system we study is the real mcoy. I must seek out an authentic style to learn, mmmmm, now which one?

Mark S

[Colin]

I'm only quoting from else where!
Maybe I shouldn't comment as I admit I know very little about bak mei.
But then again you also seem to know nothing about Lau gar............

[MarkS]

No it isn't possible that I'm wrong. There are many schools of Pak Mei and many interpretations, however one thing is certain there are many more hand formations than the phoenix eye fist. This is not in contention. Refer to a simpler source for evidence of this, Mr Un's book 'Pak Mei' where Cheung Lai Cheun is shown performing Nine Step Push. Clearly shown is Bil Jee, Fu Jao. My teacher was taught by Mr Un.

So answer the question from your quoted source, is Lau Gar in there?

As I have already explained if you had taken the time to read, I have in the past been in many competitions where I have "fought" Lau Gar people, I have had contact with Lau Gar students who then came to me for training and have seen the sets and techniques that they have learnt, and I have seen some of the Lau Gar schools in this area. Now compared to your 12 years in the style, no I obviously don't know as much, however I clearly know a lot more about Lau Gar then you do about Pak Mei.

Mark S

[Colin]

Lau Gar is mentioned in Jane Hallanders book on page 71.
Quote" Lau Gar- Founded by Lau Soam Ngan. It is a middle length hand system, not often taught in present times." ( as opposed to never)
As for H.B.Un's book,I have a copy.
Yes I know about the other techniques, beu gee,fu jau etc, but doesn't this show that there are many different opinions regarding many styles?

I will say something though, and that is that I HAVE seen some really **** Lau Gar in this country, and Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.
Unfortunatly A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!

regards
Colin..............

[phoenix-eye]

I agree - because the system has been so popular there are some bad instructors out there. However, if you can find a good sifu (and I have) who teaches Lau Gar as a traditional chinese style then the system is a good one.

Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.

Dont led the bad taint the good.

[tnwingtsun]

You............................................... .Are right about White Eyebrow.

Jane has no clue. :eek:

[MarkS]

Crawling Tiger: ouch! do i detect

Detect what? and when did your name change?

Crawling Tiger: but doesn't this show that there are many different opinions regarding many styles?

Yes, but as tnwingtsun says (thanks BTW) Jane has no clue. I am 99.9% sure that without exception all Pak Mei schools for example teach Jek Bo, therefore there is no different opinion here regarding exclusive use of Phoenix Eye, (unless someone is going to say that "their" Jek Bo only uses Phoenix)

Crawling Tiger: Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.

Thats mostly what I've seen, and there are probably third or maybe fourth generation students of these people now teaching.

Crawling Tiger: Unfortunatly A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!
LauPaul: Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.
Dont led the bad taint the good


Just saying like I've seen it guys, no disrespect to you or your style intended.
Are there any good classes/schools in East Anglia I can take a look at, that you know of?

Mark S

[Colin]

MarkS: Detect what? and when did your name change?

You appeared a wee bit tetchy.
I was reading a thread about names and why people had chosen them so it seemed a nice idea to have one of my own.
Therefore "Crawling Tiger" . As it is a favorite excerise of mine!

Crawling Tiger: Master Yau is aware that many of his older instructors that were part of the tournament scene do not teach in a very traditional way.
MarkS: Thats mostly what I've seen, and there are probably third or maybe fourth generation students of these people now teaching.

C T: Tell me about it! I saw some guys recently sporting brown sash (3-5 years training) that couldn't even stand correctly, and their forms well! made me want to cry!

Crawling Tiger: Unfortunately A tree has many branches, some bear fruit and some are riddled with maggots!
LauPaul: Lau Gar has been around for many years in the UK now - surely it would have been well and truly rubbished by now if it was without merit as a fully fledged style.
Dont led the bad taint the good

MarkS: Just saying like I've seen it guys, no disrespect to you or your style intended.
Are there any good classes/schools in East Anglia I can take a look at, that you know of?

C T: No Problem! ;-)
I had a quick look on the BKFA website, and there are no clubs listed in Eastern England.
You are welcome to pop down to London sometime and see us. My instructor is listed on the site.

regards
Colin...........

[MarkS]

CT: I had a quick look on the BKFA website, and there are no clubs listed in Eastern England.

Thats interesting then, as there are a lot of classes and clubs in, for instance, Norfolk, (some mighty high 'degrees' of black sash as well).
Ah well.


Mark S

[Colin]

As someone said to me once when I made a comment about some high grades we met.
"Don't look at the colour of the sash, look at the quality of the technique".
Notdon't ask me to explain why there are these people about,
you might find ( and this is from experience) that the high grades were trained in a far more traditional method than they actually teach.
But if an instructor has trained for many years traditionally, but chooses to teach a more modern format who can tell them otherwise.
I mean take a look at Wing chun. So many different varients about now.
I strongly believe that you have to take each class, and each instructor on an individual basis.

regards
Colin...............

[Ming Fai]

The style of Lau Ga was founded by Lau Sam-Ngan at the end of the 18th century. Master Lau lived in Ying Tak County of Guangdong province and because he had a scar on his forehead which resembled a third eye he received the nickname of "Three-eyed Lau" ( Lau Sam-Ngan ). His actual name was slowly forgotten. Lau learned his kungfu from a Shaolin monk and excelled in pole techniques ( According to some stories, he learned many skills from his wife but unfortunately her name has been lost ). After mastering the Shaolin techniques from his master he devised his own style of Kungfu, naming it Lau Ga Kuen which means fist-art of the Lau family.

Lau Ga is a highly economic style which contains only two empty-hand forms and one staff form. From an angle of practicality, the pole techniques are unique and most useful. The movements of the staff contains the "swishing coins on the ground" technique which was the unique skill of Lau Sam-Ngan. The fist techniques are aimed purely for close-range fighting and the height of the strikes does not exceed that of the eye-brows. All three forms begins with three salutations, which makes Lau Ga a very polite style. Each form contains sections which must be performed on both sides to make the practitioner get familiar with the techniques. The style gained much popularity at the end of the Qing dynasty and became the second style of Southern boxing to Hung Ga kungfu.

The Lau Ga stick techniques were very popular in the northern regions of Guangdong while in the area of Guangzhou the fist forms were widely practiced. But in recent years this style is rarely found. Fortunately many Hung Ga schools have taken up the 3 forms of Lau Ga into their curriculum, allowing the student to learn this simple but effective style of Southern kungfu.

[lausan]

This question keeps on cropping up from time to time on the forum(is Lau in the UK traditional?)
Also is Lau Gar taught as a Kickboxing style?

When i started training in Lau Gar in the mid 1980's only the traditional style was taught.In about 1989 a SEPARATE! kickboxing syllabus was introduced to enable competition only fighters something to focus on.

Lau Gar has ruled the roost in Semi Contact as well as full since the early 1970's.Steve Babbs,Alfie Lewis,Kevin Brewerton are just some names that spring to mind.

To gain entrance into the Lau 'A' Team a talent for sparring was the obvious choice, but also to be a Black Sash 1st Degree or above.This meant that all the team members had trained in the traditional system.

Let me try to explain using another example.If someone exelled in the 100m sprint and later went on to become an Olympic champion,that person would have trained in all aspects of athletics.It's just that sprinting was their thing and they focused all their energy into that.There are some good all rounders,and i agree that as an Instructor you should be one.To teach well you should be well versed in all areas of your style.

If any one has ever been to the British Kung Fu Association Nationals they would have seen the traditional and the modern side by side.

There are some excellent traditional Lau Gar instructors in the UK.Master Yau's senior instructors Like John Russell,Mike Lavender,Pete Hornby Have been training in the traditional art for 30 years and have produced many traditional instructors themselves.

[Ross]

I usually like to stay out of this sort of thing as it is essentially impossible for anyone to win in this discussion. Now British Lau Gar may have a tradition of it's own but this doesn't make it the traditional Lau Gar style that people accept as the original. And good fighters are always admired/appreciated but there is more to a martial art than tournaments ( and tournament style fighting).

What seems to be confusing me is this pride in fighting in semi-contact and the likes when it is sooooooo untraditional and undermines most of what makes kung fu "kung fu". I know some nice guys from the Lau Gar group here in the UK but nothing I have seen has led me to think that they are from the traditional lineage.

Still you have to admire the guts/tactics/hard work or whatever that has made this into probably the largest kung fu group over here.

So maybe we should just agree to disagree about whether the guys here are traditional (and no slagging each other off!:D ) and go have a friendly pint.

Cheers, R

[lausan]

R,
You seem to have missed the point.What I was trying to say was that Semi Contact Points fighting was a small part of what we do.It is an off-shoot nothing more than that.The classes I teach have always been traditional with points fighting as only a small portion of the syllabus.
Yes we are proud of our fighters, but we are equally proud of our Kung Fu and its tradition.

What I can't understand is why nobody has ever seen a traditional Lau Gar class? Maybe I have been fortunate that I have been taught in this way since day 1.

:) :) :)

I've seen a traditional lau gar class; in fact I too have been lucky enough to have seen nothing else in the 3 years I've been training. I've also had 3 years of reading posts from people saying lau isn't traditional/worthy/for real/etc etc. All I can say (that I haven't said already, many times before) is that if you think lau gar is all kickboxing and little else, you're really missing the point. So thank you lausan, for putting our point across so well.

More power to you,

Kev.

[Colin]

Enough said. I think.............

Colin