Northern Shaolin forms

[BDKF]

Why is it that the northern Shaolin forms are numbered 1-10, but they are not learned in that order? Wouldn't it make more sense to number them in the order you learn them?

[David Jamieson]

the sets are learned out of order starting with shorter sets then working into the longer sets.

It was not always this way, but has become this way now.

I understand that once you have learned all 10 of the core sets you can practice them in order 1 - 10 and get a really good workout from it. :)

peace

[NorthernShaolin]

BDKF,

This question was asked previously and is left on thew old server so I'll re-post my response again.

Originally KYC learned the 10 Northern Shaolin sets in its numerical order, one to ten, from Yim Chi Wen or Great Spear Yim. Before Kuo Yu Chang learned the 10 Northern Shaolin sets they were known by their names only and were not numbered. Many of the students got confused and so the sets were referred by numbers as they learned them. Hence the first set they learned in the series was number one because the name, Open Door, implies that the set is an introduction to the style and Northern Shaolin is about using various leg techniques. What better way to be introduced to the style than to learn all the kicking methods in the style. As all of you are aware there are 36 kicks in this set. Each set has a specific name because the essence of the set is demonstrating specific attacking techniques of the style. For example, in number four, Chest Attacks, the set teaches one how to attack the opponent’s center line. In number two , lead the way, it demonstrating how to attack your opponent by side stepping , angling your attacks and sliding into your opponent.

It was not until KYC started teaching in KwangTung in 1929 that he realized the his students were having a difficult time learning NSL. He then reorganized the sequence of teaching the sets and came up with the current sequence of 6,7,8,5,4, 1,2,3,9 and then 10.

Hence 6,7,8,5, and 4 became known as the lower five and 1,2,3,9,and 10 became known as the upper five. Seventy years ago, the upper five were regarded as their favorite sets by the NSL's disciples. Today, the current NSL people prefer the lower five over the upper five.

[stonecrusher69]

Can some one tell me about the history of the 10 hand set.I read on the internet that KYC having mastered many hand forms combined his knowledge and created the 10 hand sets.

[NorthernShaolin]

stonecrusher69,

Some sources can trace the 10 NSL sets back to over 900 years. But the most realible sources have the NSL roots traced to Kan Feng Chih who is regarded as the first generation of NSL. He was a master of Flower fist and Ch'a fist. He was arrested in 1729 AD by the governor of Chikwang provience and was executed by the Ching government for conspiracy against the government. NSL has been documented since that time. The western world was not exposed to it until the early 1900’s thus causing the western MA to think NSL did not exist until then and many people gave Kuo Yu Chang credit as to creating the NSL 10 sets which is not true. (With all respect to GM KYC, this is really too much credit for one person.) For everyone who has practice NSL for many years, they know exactly what I'm talking about- that is, NSL sets contain techniques that are very deep in its meaning and the way each set is composed and uniquely presented. More on this below.

KYC learn the 10 NLS sets from his teacher, Yim Chi Wen, nicknamed Great Spear Yim, because he was known to be an expert in the 24 technques of the Shao lin Long Spear.

The 10 NSL sets are actually created and named after the five northern mother styles that were taught at the Shao lin Temple.

Who exactly created the 10 NSL sets is unknown but the common belief is that it was a collective effort by several monks in the Shao lin temple.

The five northern mother styles are Ch'a, Pao, Hung (Red), Wah and Hua (Flower). The best fighting techniques from these five styles were identified and used to compose and develop the existing 10 NSL sets. Therefore it can be said that the 10 NSL sets contain the essence of the Shao lin temple.

In the NSL sets #1 to #8, one can find many techniques mainly from Ch'a, Wah and Hua styles. Number 10 has a slightly different flavor than the other nine sets because it is believed that this set contains left over techniques that did not fit into the other nine sets theme.

Each of these 10 NSL sets was develop a certain way to teach the student specific fighting techniques and thus known as the core techniques of the set. The name of each set gives the clue as to what the core techniques are. For example, NSL #1 was originally known as Open Door which is an old term that was used to denote kicking techniques. Thus core techniques of this set is kicking.

The other techniques within each set are called non-core techniques and are only used to connect the core techniques. Therefore all the tornado kicks in sets #2 to #10 are just a transitional move to connect the core techniques.

[David Jamieson]

:)

[BDKF]

What are the core techniques or themes of forms 1-10?

[GeneChing]

A little of everything I'd say. There are movements that sample a variety of systems, long fist, short punches, aerial kicks, ground fighting. Like NS says, it's pretty dense stuff. Each set has a different soul and they combine together like voltron to be this mosnter encyclopedia of moves.

Something worthy of mention is the overall composition of the 10, how they are learned today and how they ultimately fit together. The learning order introduces concepts 6, 7, 8...10 incrementally, so in 6 you get your first tornado kick and sweep. If you were to start with one, you move right into some complex kick combinations, the reverse tornado (the only one in the 10) and ground rolling. That just wouldn't work out, thus the pedagogical structure moves from simple to complex.
Once you have all the 10 and practice them in order, the brilliance really shines. 1 is an explosive opening that really opens the body and stokes up the qi. 2 has a technique pattern of left, right, variation that runs thoughout the form. This gives it a fascinating symmetry. 3 is the long one, sitting in horse. I like to call that one 'the hump,' get over it powerfully and you've got a good chance to make it through the 10. It's an endurance run and you're already tired from 1 & 2. 4 is a short one and it gives you a break. But it is also the only one that has a huge repeated section which means you don't have to remember aas much. Of course, that repetition ends in variation, so if you're still tired from 3, you'll fall into the wrong pattern. It also has a has a left hand emphasis. 5 is the martial one, great fighting combos, a lot of fire. I think I took the most sparring techniques from this one at first. 6 is the easiest - not only was it learned first, it has the least complex moves. Another break in a way, and crossing the halfway point. 7 is the most flowery, in fact it's called the plum flower. The beauty of it is strangely encouraging, again stoking that qi furnace with it's aesthetics. 8 is the slinky one. It has the slippery energy, lots of turns and sweeps. Sneaky fighting. 9 is another long one but it lets you stand up more than the others. It gives your legs a break, but not your spirit. It has a lot of sophisticated moves and more ground rolling. And 10 is the brain crusher. By now the system has set your body up with all of the patterns. 10 break them all, and when your already taxed from the previous 9 sets, it can be a real challenge to stay alert and not fall into a previous pattern. There's so much in the 10 sets - it still teaches me. Even when I learn new fighting techniques, I often find them buried in the 10 in some manifestation.

For a story of Gan Feng Chi: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=161
For some BSL info: http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=158

[stonecrusher69]

Thanks for the info. Can you tell me if you know anyone who teaches NSL in the NJ or NY .

[beiquan]

Seventy years ago, the upper five were regarded as their favorite sets by the NSL's disciples. Today, the current NSL people prefer the lower five over the upper five.

i prefer the upper five! well, actually of those sets i only know #1 and am currently learning #2. however, i haven't quite reached the level of skill where i can perform these forms at the high level that they deserve, so for the time being i stick with the lower five when i have to demonstrate in public.

ps. did i mention that shaolin #2 is amazing! the upper sets really leave you scratching your head...

[NorthernShaolin]

Beiquan,

For me, out of the upper five I really like #2 then #10 followed by #3. I think you'll really like the way #2 flows.

[GeneChing]

I competed with 5, 6, 7, 8, and 1, so there's something in those forms that I liked to show off. I demo'ed 10 once, back when I could do that leg dip thing in the beginning (way outta practice on that now :( ) But in reflection, each one has surfaced at one time of another that I liked best. There was a time when a classmate and I had this 12-sided die that we cast to randomize the order. 11 or 12 would be wild cards. That was really tough, especially when you get a losing streak, so to speak.

[Roy D. Anthony]

Can anyone tell me if there are any good sources of these forms?
i.e. books, and videos?
Sorry am new to Shaolin Forum! any info would be greatly appreciated!

[NorthernShaolin]

Wing Lam has a whole series of tapes on Northern Shaolin. Try his website at www.wle.com.

There are several books in English:

Top of my head here are two of them and both can be found at Wing's web site or at any Barns and Nobles Bookstore;

Wing Lam's Plum Blossom

Li Hung's book on Shaolin #6

[BDKF]

What is each specific form supposed to teach the individual doing the form? Defensive tactics, offensive tactics, multiple attackers, etc???

Thanks

[GeneChing]

There might be some generalities you could make, like #1 trains your kicks, but each form is a composition on to it's own, so it transmits many different lessons. And when the 10 are all combined, the lessons get really deep.

[NorthernShaolin]

NSL 10 sets are known to be both defensive and aggressive offense techniques because NSL is a very aggressive style. Gene is right when he says that one cannot specifically say this set will show how to…. and that set will teach you how to… that applies to today’s existing 10 sets.

However, over a hundred years ago, these sets were not numbers but were originally known by their names. These associated names gave a clue as to what the set’s main core techniques are. Movements and techniques are set up in such a way as how one’s interpretation so the name of the set was to be used as a guide when learning the set. Today the core moves are harder for us to visualize because over the years, techniques have been added by past masters to their favorite sets.

Without going into all ten sets I will only cite a few examples:
Shaolin #1 is called Open Door, which is another way of expressing kicking techniques. This set was originally taught first as an introduction to NSL which is a style known for its kicking techniques. Any non-kicking technique in this set is a transitional move so that the set flows easily from one kick to the next.

Shaolin #2 is called Leading the Way: This set demonstrates how to side step your opponent and slipping into your opponent. An example of slipping into your opponent in this set is the opening techniques called Two Dragons Blowing its Whiskers.

Shaolin #8 is called Leaps or in its older name, Three Palms, Eight Steps. This set is very aggressive in its attacking moves. It demonstrates combinations in attacking your opponent by using three different palms within eight steps.

[5thBrother]

hi. does anyone know of any online clips of any of the 10 bsl forms please.

i know there is a tun da form clip i saw once..

any others?

or pictures..

thanks