The Atkins Diet - Your Opinions

[joedoe]

I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the Atkins diet (low carb, high protein). It seems to create a lot of controversy when I ask about it with friends & family.

Please share your thoughts.

[red_fists]

HI.

My Parents went on it a few years back(18 or 19).
They shed the weight, but it didn't take long to come back again.

Also they complained about the daily pH-Level check and having to bake that Bread substitute(Yuck stuff).

I think like most 2 weeks diets it works, but has no real long term benefits.

As far as I am concerned any radical diet like the Atkins one can have some bad side-effects.

Just my take.

[Ford Prefect]

I know a few people that have dropped weight and kept it off with the Atkins diet. Personally, I wouldn't do it for more than a month or so. There is just something inherently wrong with robbing the body of it's primary source of energy: carbs.

[Budokan]

Yeah, I went on it, but despite what they say it tends to drop more water weight than anything else. It also has the bad benefit of not giving long term results. You'd do better to exercise regularly and STOP EATING YOU FAT F*CK!:D

(Sorry, ABandit, I couldn't resist!:D )

[crazybuddha]

Two thoughts - rather than publish his work in relevant medical journals and bear the scrutiny of his professional peers, Atkin's publishes "bestsellers" and sells his ideas. Thank god, the rest of medicine doesn't work like this.

Also, the gentry in Europe during the 18th century also had a diet that was extrememly high in protein. Gout was common and I believe was due to the high protein intake. I have no idea if Atkins addresses this, but it is worth looking into for anyone considering going that route.

[hkphooey]

not to mention the ammonia by-product that is created...

bad, bad...

joedoe..there are some decent scientific critiques out there on the web (i've read them before). i'll see if i can remember where they are. you might just try typing the name in to a search engine though.

[Radhnoti]

I have a book by Daniel Reid, it's about Taoist practices in modern language (very readable). He doesn't come right out and say "Dump carbs", but he suggests that it aids in digestion to eat EITHER protein OR carbs during a meal...with as many raw green veggies as you can handle. So, I always thought the Atkins Diet would fall in line with the Taoist ideas of seperating the two.
Me, I could probably never give up bread...good luck.
:)

[Merryprankster]

Excellent for cutting weight.

Not so good for long term loss unless you are "insulin resistant..." a loosely defined term that is used as an excuse by fat people for their blob like nature (people in good shape are not insulin resistant).

Here's where the initial weight loss comes from: It takes approximately 3-4g of water to store 1g of glycogen in the muscles and liver. Deplete the stores of carbohydrates by 1kg, and you lose 3-4 kg of water... you do the math :)

Of course, as soon as you start eating carbs again....

[TjD]

i think the reason the high-protien diet works for many people is because all the foods that make you fat are carbs :)


sugars, candy bars, non-wholegrain bread

these things make you fat


the "diet" im currently on is pretty-normal,
about 30% grain/fruit, 30% protien, 40% vegetables :)

except ive cut out the processed grains (bad-for-you-carbs)


if you dont wanna be fat, stop drinking the soda and eating the candy bars :)


peace
travis

[IronFist]

I'm not saying the Atkins diet does or doesn't work, because I dont' know the specifics of it. All I know is that it's a "low carb" diet which could mean anything.

That being said, has anyone ever observed a bodybuilder during the week or so before a bodybuilding show? A lot of bodybuidlers do keto (ketosis) diets which are zero carb diets (maybe not "zero", but under like 30 or 50g or something per day) because they make you drop fat FAST and therefore you come in shredded on the day of the competition.

(this is in reference to people in college) So, if you watch these BB'ers who diet like this during their diets, you will notice that they never talk, they just sit in the back of class and sleep. They have no energy, they don't want to participate in anything. They just exist while their body burns fat. As previously mentioned, carbs are the body's main source of energy. Also, they provide vital nutrients to the brain. The summary of this long winded story? No/low carb diets make you feel like crap.

Plus, they only work as long as you stay on them. Start eating carbs again and the weight will probably come back.

IronFist

[joedoe]

Budokan: How did you know I was a fat fu(k? You been looking for photos of me or something? :D

I have started a modified Atkins diet - lowered carbs but not to the extreme that he suggests for his induction phase.

He does address the issue of uric acid & gout and does recommend that if you suffer from gout that you should seek advice before doing the diet.

Having said that, I do suffer from gout (thanks to my father's genes :() and so far I have not had any trouble - I still minimise red meats as a source of protein.

So far, I have lost about 4kg (after 1.5 weeks) and actually feel very good - no lack of energy and I no longer feel bloated all the time, especially after meals. My aim is to lose another 6 kg. I have followed his suggestions of dietary supplements to maintain the vitamin intake so that may also help.

I think ultimately what I have got out of this in the long term is that while carbs are not the source of all evil, I was probably eating way too much before. So now I think I just need the discipline to moderate my carb intake - unfortunately I am a bread lover too :).

I'll keep you posted on my progress.

[red_fists]

3 months. :eek:

When my Parents were on it, they max period suggested, methinks, was 3 Weeks.

With daily ph-level checking of the urine and immediately stopping when the ph-level went drastically either way.

Substitute Bread tasted like @*+#, I treid it once.

[Qi dup]

I have heard mixed things about the Atkins diet. To my understanding when you don't have carbs in your system your body will have to find something else to get it's energy from. Your body may start to eat up a lot of protein which your body needs for muscle growth and repairs. THat's the idea of the diet though, right? you eat more protein so your body will start to use it more for energy than carbs? I guess i'd be afraid I wouldn't have enough carbs or prtein in my system and my body would start to eat the fat as well as the muscle. but yeah, I could be wrong. It's sounds interesting, let us know how it goes. personal I eat a lot of carbs for energy.

[IronFist]

If you want to check if your body is in ketosis you can buy these things called ketostix or something that you **** on and they change color and tell you. Sounds like what red_fists was talking about.

IronFist

[red_fists]

Iron-Fist.

Yep, same things. Different name.

[rogue]

The Iron Guru, Vince Gironda, used high protien/low carb diet as a pre-contest diet back in the 60's. Even back then he said to do it only for a couple of weeks.

[guohuen]

Unfortunately these diet book writers don't have the cajones or the intelligence to tell you that it should be a fat diet, not a protein diet. Preferably high quality dietary fat like essential fatty acids. Salmon oil, flax seed oil, primrose oil, blk current oil, borage oil, walnut oil, hazelnut oil, sweet almond oil, sesame oil, sunflower oil, pumpkin seed oil, wheat germ oil, ect.

[Sharky]

"Here's where the initial weight loss comes from: It takes approximately 3-4g of water to store 1g of glycogen in the muscles and liver. Deplete the stores of carbohydrates by 1kg, and you lose 3-4 kg of water... "

Sorry, i am being thick, i don't understand. See, both my brother and his bi.tch are on this diet, and i tell them to stop being fat pri.cks and stop eating and do more (some, at least) exercise and i want to be able to back up my protest with science :)

So, glycogen is like, broken down into glucose, (as in it's sugar/carbs, right?) So you're telling me that cos it takes (lets say) 4kg to hold 1 kg of carbs? And so if you lose that 1kg of carbs, you're gonna have lost 4kg of water, so it looks like you have lost 5kg when it's just watr you've lost? How do you lose the water?

And when you go off the diet, what exactly happens? Cheers.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by guohuen
Unfortunately these diet book writers don't have the cajones or the intelligence to tell you that it should be a fat diet, not a protein diet. Preferably high quality dietary fat like essential fatty acids. Salmon oil, flax seed oil, primrose oil, blk current oil, borage oil, walnut oil, hazelnut oil, sweet almond oil, sesame oil, sunflower oil, pumpkin seed oil, wheat germ oil, ect.

Actually, Atkins does recommend you take in a lot of fats, particularly the essential fatty acids.

inic: It is also recommended that you take a dietary fibre supplement like psyllium husk. I take a tablespoon every morning. I actually feel less backed up than I used to.

2 weeks now - lost 4kg in the first week, none this week :( Need to be a little more disciplined I think :)

[joedoe]

Lost another kilo!!!!! :D

[guohuen]

Been on a maintenance phase of the Adkins diet for eight years now. Your right , he does mention EFA's. I should have excluded him from my rant. Funny thing around here is most doctors are still putting most people on low fat diets while themselves and most of the nursing staff and other hospital staff use the Adkins diet. I'm still keeping my body fat at 6% because I'm towards the end of purging lead from my body. I've already succeeded with copper. I suggest you keep a supply of quick carbs like honey around for emergency in case your blood sugar gets too low. I'd also consider using herbal suppliments rather than vitamins. The EFAs will make a big difference in your energy levels. You'll find lethicin (soy) will really help your system process this fat and not upset your stomach. Congrats on your success! Keep it up, it works. I also find my energy level to be more constant. Don't binge on carbs! You'll get really sick! When you do start adding carbs back try good quality rice. I think you'll find your system will accept this.Good luck! Have Fun!

[Sharky]

how do i find my bodyfat %? do i have to get an electronic scale thingy?

[joedoe]

Thanks. It is really encouraging to hear that it has worked for you. I seem to be surrounded by naysayers - especially my girlfriend. I intend to keep going until I lose another 5 - 7 kilos.

[WarriorX]

For a variation on the actkins diets, check out the T-dawg high protein/low carb diet for people actively training over at www.T-mag.com

Neil

[Serpent]

Hey kids! What's new?

I've been on the go a bit lately and not in one place for long. I'm sure you all missed me terribly! ;)

Anyway, this thread caught my eye. I had a thread or two about protein a while back. Here's some stuff I've learned recently, and it really tosses on the points most people here have made!

Allegedly, protein and carbs are digested differently. I can't remember which way around, but one is started to digest in the mouth with saliva and completed in the stomach, while the other is digested wholly in the stomach. Also, one requires an alkali disgestion, the other an acidic digestion.

Therefore, carbs and protein should never be eaten together. The digestion processes cancel each other out and you're left feeling bloated and heavy with a slow digestion.

Also, protein intake in humans these days is apparently way too high. For those of us who train hard, we need more protein, but the ideal mix (according to the Tao Of Health, Sex and Longevity, which I think was referred to by a previous poster) is 90% carbs, 1% protein and the rest in fresh, raw fruit and veges. For us that train hard, perhaps 80% carbs, 10% protein and the rest in fruit and veges would be the way to go.

Therefore, the upshot of this method is that most every meal is a vegetarian meal, cooked fast or not at all, with a lot of carbs (pasta, rice, potatoes, etc.) and no protein. Occasionally, once or twice a week, some protein should be taken in, but when it is, no carbs at all. Maybe a steak and veges, no bread, potatoes, etc.

I've been trying to match this method for a little while now and I do actually feel better for it. I just think that I need a little more protein, cos I work out so much and at quite an intense level. That's what prompted me to make my other posts asking about good sources of protein and muscle growth.

So, what think you all of that? Quite the opposite of this Atkins thing.

[joedoe]

Funny you should mention that, because I have also been giving thought to the whole idea of not mixing carbs and proteins in the same meal. Even to timing when you eat your carbs and when you eat your proteins.

I have been thinking that you need carbs in the morning to kick-start your body. You also have all day to use up the energy. You slowly ease back your carb intake through the day so that by evening you have mostly proteins.

I guess I also see some sense in what Atkins says about hyperinsulinism, and will try to avoid high GI foods as much as I can.

Any thoughts on this?

BTW. Down another kilo :)

[TenTigers]

-just wanted to add; the body for life is a modified atkins approach-high lean protien, low glycemic carbs, lo fat. It works. Make sure you take magnesium, and potassium supplements, and aminos, or you will be very lethargic. I also agree that psyllium shoulld be added to your diet. I tried a few brands and I have found Konsul works real well. I mix it in juice. AQlso drink plenty of water.

[Leimeng]

~Large parts of the population suffer from hyperinsulinism. The problem is compounded by the excessive amounts of carbohydrates and chemicals in the american diet. Large numbers of people eat the supposedly healthy diet reccomended by the FDA and diet industry. A signficant percentage of them eat less, and healthier than a person without weight problem.
To state that the cure for the problem is to "Eat less, exercise more" is foolish.
~No two physical bodies are the same. Every single person has an individual physical make up that causes them to react to different foods in different ways. Some people are allergic to strawberries, some peanuts, some avocados. But a lot of people are not. The same thing goes with diet.
~Some people suffer from carbohydrate addiction because their body chemistry is like that. Simple. Carbohydrate addiction basically causes the body to have wild swings in the insulin level in the blood. Often times the person will start to produce insulin when smelling or thinking about good food. If something sweet tasting (not sugary but sweet, ie. diet sodas, artificial sweeteners,) touch the taste buds to the mouth, the sensation will cause an increase in insulin to the blood system in preparation for digestion. After a while the body gets resistant to the insulin and cant process food or sugar that well. Because of the general chemistry involved. It also causes the body to not burn fat, and a myriad of other problems.
~If you have a constant battle with your weight and yet you try to diet all the time. If you are hungry and tired 2 or 3 hours after you eat, if you have a constant mild headache, if your blood pressure is high, or you retain water, there is a good chance that it is caused by excessive carbohydrates in the diet.
~My reccomendation if this is the case for you is to eat lots of protein and fibrous veggies for breakfast and lunch. Avoid starches, sugars, fruits and juices for these two meals, then have what ever you want for dinner in a 33-33-33 balance of protein, fibrous veggies, and carbohydrates. PLUS two cups of salad. What ever you want of dinner, but just keep that combination for every thing. Do NOT drink diet sodas or artificial sweeteners. Also try to avoid MSG or other glutinates in your diet at all times. IF you need to snack, (You probably wont be hungry though) eat low carb veggies like celary, green bell peppers, or kimchee, or some natural jerky without the chemical additives. Drink 6-10 glasses of water a day or more. Do this for one week and see if you can tell a difference in your energy level and other things.
~This is easier to handle than the atkins type diet.
~Last year I did do a high protein, low carb type diet and lost 38 lbs in about two and a half months. (I was 248, with a standing diet of 1800 -2400 calories a day and three hours of exercise 6 days a week! Very healthy sounding.) I kept most of it off and recently started this sort of diet. I like the results.
~Most people who you consider to be grossly overweight do not want to be that way, they try the diets and eat less, and many do exercise. The problem is the carbs in the diet. Plan and simple.
~If you want some good reading material that is very well backed up then read up on the books and studies conducted by Drs Richard and Rachael Heller, and Dr Fredric Vagnini. They have extensive research documented in their publications from hundreds of reputible sources.
~Something else to think about, over the past 35 years in the american diet, fat consumption, meat consumption, and raw sugar consumption have both decreased significantly. We exercise more in health clubs, eat more grains, potatoes, pastas, rice, and beans. We have more sugar substitutes and more diets. But, we are fatter, have more diabetes, more heart problems, more high blood pressure, more kidney and liver problem, and more chemical additives in our diet. Does this make sense? Does this perhaps indicate something?
~Hope this helps or at least makes you think. :confused:

Peace,

Sin Loi

yi beng, kan xue

[joedoe]

Great post Leimeng. While Atkins covers a lot of that in his book, it was very informative. Given me more food for thought so to speak.

[Tsuei]

Someone stated that all persons are different, that must be taken into account. Leimeng mentioned a test that I recognize as from the "Carbohydrate Addict's Diet".. I took the test, all signs pointed to it being for me.. Whoa.. was I wrong.... did it for a month and a half or 2 months.. I was constantly ill, had very greasy skin and only lost about 4 pounds.... The only diet that has ever worked for me is low fat... avoid red meat and low on processed sugar, basically Dean Ornish style.

As for Adkins... You can't tell me it's healthy to eat eggs and sausage for breakfast everyday... I can't verify this but I was told by someone I trust (who has worked in fitness, can't use the name for legal reasons) that the same diet Atkins pushes was also in vogue in the 1800's- it's main proponent an UNDERTAKER. People say "Atkins is a Doctor... he should know".. I know of another proven weight loss program driven by a Doctor.. from the 1940's... what was the guy's name? Oh yea... Josef Mengle....

[joedoe]

That is why I got my bloodwork done before I started, and will have it checked every month or so.

[Leimeng]

~So to reiterate the point that I made earlier, each person has a different body chemistry and that needs to be taken into account. If you fail to loose weight one way, then try another. Usually all healthy weight loss is going to come from a few basic items. Diet, (different for everyone), exercise, (should be a given), water consumption, (needed to flush the system). That is, your total life style is going to affect your weight, not just one small point.
~Just because something does not work for you, does not mean that it won't work for others. You need to find what works for you. I know several people that try a vegan and vegetarian diet and actually GAIN a lot of excess weight. I also know those sick individuals that can eat everything and anything in site in excess and still not gain an ounce. It might not sound fair, but that is life, get over it.
~A low carb diet works for some, for others it does not. For me it did, Now I don't do a "low carb diet", I just watch when I eat what I eat.
~Perhaps we need to also think of why we want to lose weight in the first place. Is due to health? Peer pressure? Dissatisfaction with how we look? To impress others? Quite frankly, unless you are in the military and have a weight standard to meet, or you need to loss weight because of health reasons, I would not worry so much about it. We have been fed this line of crap that says that unless we look like a model or a movie star we are not sexy or worthwhile.
~If it is a self esteem thing you are trying to get over, then I reccomend putting effort into progress in your martial arts training and intellectual or skill type endeavours. Success will cause an increased positive feeling about yourself if you let it.
~Hope that was helpful for you all. Again, dont worry about your weight unless it affects your health. Just train well and enjoy yourself and life.

Peace,

Sin Loi

yi beng, kan xue

[joedoe]

Just lost another kilo. :)

[GeneChing]

A painful disease once known for afflicting wealthy kings is making a comeback, and fad diets like keto may be partly to blame (https://m.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/gout-on-the-rise-symptoms-treatment-kings-disease-13523419.php?fbclid=IwAR2RoM1walQjXBpDmcdhO0pz72EG 2qDVMe8F5lwN8PsYxZCknzmX-gbKb5I)
Hilary Brueck, provided by
| on January 10, 2019

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/50/64/03/10698958/3/920x920.jpg
The prevalence of gout in the US population is expected to continue rising in the coming years. Photo: Dan Dalton/Getty Images/Caiaimage
Photo: Dan Dalton/Getty Images/Caiaimage

The prevalence of gout in the US population is expected to continue rising in the coming years.

Gout is on the rise as more Americans indulge in purine-rich foods like beer, bacon, and beef.

Being overweight can put people at risk of developing the form of arthritis, as can some fad diets like keto and Atkins if dieters consume too much meat.

The prevalence of gout in the US population is expected to continue rising in the coming years.

Feast like a king, and you could get gout like one too.

The condition, a type of inflammatory arthritis, can arise when people load up on purine-rich foods and drinks — things like bacon, steak, scallops, veal, and alcohol. Eating and drinking too much of this stuff can cause harmful stores of uric acid to build up in our joints. That buildup can lead to sudden, painful gout symptoms in the hands and feet.

Gout has been identified clinically since at least the time of ancient Egyptians, around 2640 BC. Traditionally, this form of arthritis affected only the small sliver of society that could afford rich meats and sugary alcohols — hence its reputation as the "disease of kings." But no more.

Gout is making a comeback across the US. The Lewin Group, a healthcare consulting firm, estimated in 2006 that the prevalence of gout across the country would increase by 38% by 2025. The condition already affects more than one in 25 Americans and is the most common form of inflammatory arthritis, according to the Arthritis Foundation.

One recent example: Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, reportedly has gout that sometimes leads him to use a wheelchair.

GOUT CAN COME ON SUDDENLY AND BE EXTREMELY PAINFUL
Hippocrates called gouty arthritis the "unwalkable disease," since the sudden pains of a bout of gout can make it nearly impossible to move.

"An attack of gout can occur suddenly, often waking you up in the middle of the night with the sensation that your big toe is on fire," the Mayo Clinic said. "The affected joint is hot, swollen and so tender that even the weight of the sheet on it may seem intolerable."

Gout is often triggered by hyperuricemia, or too much uric acid in our blood — the body is either producing too much or not getting rid of enough of it, so uric acid crystals begin to build up in tissues and joints. The reason poor diets make it easier to get gout is that the purine compounds in some meat, seafood, and alcohol can easily raise a person's uric acid to unsafe levels.

During a gout episode, a person's toes, ankles, knees, elbows, wrists, and fingers can become swollen, hot, and red. The pain is most severe during the first hours, but the discomfort can last for days or weeks. People with gout can take non-steroidal anti-inflammatory medications like ibuprofen (Advil) to help ease their symptoms, and ice packs can also help hurting joints. Some prescription drugs can block uric acid production in the body (xanthine oxidase inhibitors) and help remove uric acid (uricosurics).

People with advanced gout flare-ups can develop bulbous nodules under their skin called tophi, which are bulging deposits of urate crystals.

WHY GOUT IS MAKING A COMEBACK
Back in the day, Benjamin Franklin (a well-known beer lover) had gout, as did Thomas Jefferson.

In 2011, a study of more than 5,700 Americans found that 5.9% of US men and 2% of women had gout, partly because people are getting heavier and high blood pressure is becoming more common.

Being overweight can promote gout attacks because extra weight leads to more uric acid production in the body and makes it more difficult for the kidneys — the body's built-in detoxifiers — to flush that acid. Making matters worse, drugs for high blood pressure, like water pills that make your kidneys release more sodium, often increase levels of uric acid in the body.

Our modern diets and habits of eating to excess are also partly to blame for the condition's prevalence. Doctors have suggested that more sugary drinks in our diets may play a role as well.

The number of people with gout is expected to continue ballooning in the coming years, along with the nation's obesity epidemic.

CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THE KETO DIET AND GOUT
Some fad diets increase people's risk of gout too. Followers of the keto diet and other low-carbohydrate regimens sometimes trade in carb-heavy foods for more beef and other gout-inducing foods.

"Quick-fix diets like keto and paleo, where your intake is very high in fat and proteins, those can lead to gout," Dr. Leigh Vinocur recently told The Cut. "It's ironic: modern living — from the food industrial complex to those brand-new diets like keto — have led to an uptick in one of the world's earliest diseases."

Read more: Silicon Valley's favorite diet can lead to kidney trouble — here's how to go keto without getting sick

But that doesn't have to be the case if low-carb diets like keto are done properly. A 2017 Yale study that used mice suggested that a keto diet may actually protect against gout by reducing inflammation in the body.

"It's actually a better condition, as long as one stays in nutritional ketosis," Dr. Stephen Phinney, the founder of Virta Health, recently said in a video.

Other doctors agree that relying too much on meat is a flawed approach to keto eating.

"Some of the problem might lie in the way that people interpret the keto diet," Dr. Thomas Chi, a urologist at the University of California at San Francisco, recently told Business Insider. He added that a combination of " tons of meat" and not enough water could lead to kidney stones — another complication of gout.

Rapid weight loss and yo-yo-dieting strategies can also contribute to severe ups and downs in the body's uric acid levels, something that can also trigger gout.

"The body loves consistency," Phinney said.

THREADS
Keto (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71108-Keto)
The Atkins Diet - Your Opinions (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?11469-The-Atkins-Diet-Your-Opinions)

[SteveLau]

IMHO, the Atkins Diet fits the bill of athlete who wants to be grow more muscles.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[David Jamieson]

I think the Keto way is actually more than a fad and you will see greater results in a shorter period of time with less adverse effects on the body than what gets happening under an atkins diet.

Keto is essentially high in clear fats, fairly high in protein and very low in carbohydrates (sugars).
Atkins is a meat diet for the most part.

My wife and I practice eating towards Ketosis. Burning fats instead of carbs, most carbs are empty and of little nutritional value.
When fats become the better part of your diet, you are eating in a more natural kind of way. Even carnivore/omnivore animals attack the fatty stuff and the organs first, lean meats are left to last.

Anyway, it takes a little while to figure it out, but essentially the idea is to stop putting useless things into your body as fuel. I used to think a calorie is just a calorie, burn more than you put in and you're golden. Right? Wrong. Sure, you'll be thinner, but without the proper nutrients, you'll be weak as a kitten most of the time.

In that sense, eating Keto and regularly exercising with a lot of cardio gets you in pretty decent shape.

If you are under 30 years old pay no attention to any of this. Your body isn't turning genes on and off yet, you aren't experiencing weird hormonal stuff at that time an basically you are at optimum barring a youth time of poor habits that has rendered you obese and addicted to sugars.

I can almost swear by Keto at this point, but I will let you know for sure as we really work towards making it a full part of our lifestyle.