Do you test your forms?

[joedoe]

I was wondering how other styles test their forms for correctness? Are your forms simply way to codify your style? Or are they also a way to build strength and stamina? Any other thoughts on forms and their teaching use?

[nospam]

joedoe,

I was wondering how other styles test their forms for correctness? Are your forms simply way to codify your style? Or are they also a way to build strength and stamina? Any other thoughts on forms and their teaching use?


Test our forms? I'm not sure I follow. Forms definitely codify technique and fighting concepts. And they are great tools for practise, including increasing one' endurance.

Testing correctness...correctness in technique would be the job of the instructor. Hopefully the student will delve to understand the many dimensions that even a beginning pattern holds. This would include taking certain movements and training them with a sparring partner.

The one aspect of patterns that my style believes needs to be addressed at the more senior levels is that they need to be taken out of traditional or structured pattern - 5 moves linear one way, followed by 3 moves linear the other way, followed by 8 moves...you get my meaning. Real sparring or fighting does not happen in linear or in single dimension. And this should and needs to be addressed at some point.

nospam.
:cool:

[joedoe]

I guess where I was coming from was that our style has what we call 'checking'. For each form, there is an opposing form - almost like 2 man sparring forms. Except that the 2nd man (the 'checker') gives the first man (the 'checkee') a hard time with his form - pushing them off balance, doing all sorts of things to help improve the checkee's strength, stamina, balance, and application.

I was just curious as to whether any other styles do anything similar. :)

[shaolinboxer]

Yes, I think so. I practice Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, which is a sword fighting style.

We have long and short 2 man "sets (forms, kata)" which are predetermined. However, after you have the basic patter memorized the attacks become more and more sincere, until a stike to the head is really a full blown shot to the head with the big heavy wooden stick. Although you can know what is coming, the idea is to wait for the right momement and respond appropriately. If you miss, fail, etc. at the higher levels of practice, you get wacked (it's really frightening actually).

It's a gradual process, but advanced practice is very dangerous.

[David Jamieson]

Yes, the extrapolation of techniques and the use of them through application via San Da, drills or free sparring is where the test of your ability to use the techniques comes in.

first basics, then form, then application of form. The application of technique is where the set is further refined in you so that you can understand how your body works in relation to the information contained in the forms.

Once you understand how the technique needs to be generated in contect to live application, the flavour of that technique becomes apparent in how you perform the set. for instance, when you first learn a set you are going through a motion without yet understanding where to generate power or why it needs to be powerful at one point versus retracting and quick at another. There are many examples of how form is improved and adjusted through application.

peace

[Ray Pina]

When doing form I study them. While trading hands I test them.

[joedoe]

Thanks for your responses. I am not sure if I am conveying what I mean properly, but your responses have sort of given me an answer anyway.

[Shaolindynasty]

It sounds like Joedoe means testing the structure of your movements within the form. For instance a partner may push you a certain way to see if you fall over and if you do then you know you need to correct the alignment of that move.

Joedoe am I right?

[HuangKaiVun]

I constantly test my moves against walls and other hard objects ("Ban Zhuang"). This I also do on students as they go through their forms.

Similarly, I'll strike students softly in a way that gets their technique into the proper mechanical distribution ("Pai Da"). Sometimes I'll slap the part that is most tense not in order to loosen, but to notify.

[nospam]

Well, we do have a 2-person form that would and will 'test' or 'check' both players.

Otherwise, as Kung 'The Man' Lek said - we extrapolate often ;) Who luvs ya baby :D

nospam.
:cool:

[Kumkuat]

I test my forms on probablity and statistics. They always screw up trying to figure out the poisson distribution though for some reason. Does anyone know the problem?

[David Jamieson]

kumkuat-

poison? did you just watch iron monkey? hahahaha.

poison distribution...yeesh.

peace

[lazybones]

Hey Joe Doe,
I am curious to know whereabouts in Sydney you stud your Wu Chu Chuan? Sent you a personal message but you might not have read it yet?

[joedoe]

Shaolindynasty - kind of. You see, for each of our forms, we have a checking form. The person doing the checking basically a) resists the checkee b) ensures the checkee is doing the form correctly and c) tries to make the checking as realistic as possible i.e. make sure that the person has to make the block to stop the punch etc.

Kumkuat - try a normal distribution ;)

Kung Lek - obviously never did stats :). Poisson is a statistical distribution.

lazybones - our schools are dotted around the north, west/south and northwest of Sydney. North Rocks, Carlingford, Cabramatta, & Berowra Heights.

[David Jamieson]

:D

it was that or french fish...

and yes, I didn't do stats.

peace

[mantis108]

From Praying Mantis perspective, forms can be check in a few ways:

1) Partnered form: this is used to check the flow of a form. Moves should be logically strung together so that there is a flow. This is a way to check it.

2) Short strikes: can be used to check the core techniques of the form. Forms are make up of core tech and connecting tech. The short strike format can check the effectiveness of core techniques.

3) Seed hand drills: Seed hands are style specific moves. i.e. Tan Bong Fook (Chi Sau) in Wing Chun, Beng Lu Ji An (Tyui Sau) in Taijiquan, Pai An in Mantis. These hands are basic expressions of the styles and can be use as platform to launch other techniques.

If a form performs well under all these check mechanisms, then it is a good form.

Mantis108

[joedoe]

Thanks mantis. That sounds interesting, and kinda similar to what we do.

I guess I am just curious as to whether any other styles do this, or whether it is a training technique unique to our style.